ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



The Obama campaign's argument on Michigan

Posted: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:26 AM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Mark Murray
The Obama campaign just released a memo from top lawyer Bob Bauer, which contains concerns about the re-vote plan in Michigan -- the chief one being that Republicans, independents, and even Democrats who voted in the January 15 GOP primary would be disqualified from participating in the do-over.

Bauer writes, "Since any Republican or independent who did not vote in January in the Republican primary is fully free to participate in the June primary, the effect of the proposal is to enfranchise a class of Republicans while disenfranchising a class of Democrats—the ones who chose to vote in the Republican primary when they correctly understood that the Democratic contest was meaningless."

Below is the entire memo...

TO: Interested Parties
FROM: Robert F. Bauer
RE: Michigan Primary
DA: March 19, 2008
 
In the short time available, I have reviewed the proposed legislation to establish the June 3, 2008 primary, considering primarily those issues that bear on the central question of whether this election can be conducted successfully without undue risk of legal challenges, including those challenges arising out of errors or other breakdown induced by the schedule the State has proposed.

No one disputes that the election will have to be hurriedly prepared; and it is further accepted that it is, in material respects, unprecedented in conception and proposed structure.  Michigan will be, for example, the first to state to have re-run an election in circumstances like these, to redress violations of party rules, and it will be the first to do so with the state supplying the legislative and administrative support but with private parties underwriting the costs with "soft money".  Whether the state can achieve its goals here depends on the nature and seriousness of the legal and administrative questions presented by this initiative—questions that, raised after the election, could put at risk the running of the election, undermine acceptance of the results if the election is held, and in both cases effectively deny Michigan voters, a second consecutive time, meaningful participation in the nominating process.

For the reasons discussed briefly below, there are such questions and they are serious both in nature and in their potential, if not likely, impact on the June election proposal.

Voter Disqualification
Although Michigan has always run open elections, which allow voters to vote in whatever primary they prefer, voters who participated in the Republican primary in January could not vote in the June election under the proposed law. This class of voters includes Democrats and Independents who chose not to vote in the invalid Democratic primary at the time because the majority of active candidates did not appear on the ballot and the results would not be accepted under party rules.

This provision raises a significant constitutional question and, along with it, the prospect for litigation that would undermine the perceived legitimacy of the election and bring preparations to a standstill under circumstances in which such delay is effectively fatal. The claim here could also be presented to the party, under party rules, with a similar effect of putting the election and its results in serious question.

The burden on voters here is one of complete disqualification—they cannot participate in the Democratic primary in June if they voted in the January Republican primary.  Their claim of a violation of their rights would rest on the fact that that the state "changed the rules in the middle of the game." These voters' choice was entirely reasonable in the circumstances:  there was no valid Democratic primary available to them at the time, and they could not know that, when their choice was made, that they were disqualifying themselves from participating in a re-run Democratic primary this year that they could know would be held.

Moreover, the state will have difficulty justifying this disenfranchisement by reference to any legitimate state interest.  Michigan cannot argue that it wants to limit the June primary to those who are genuinely Democrats, because it has always run fully open primaries. Voters, in other words, have a state-conferred right to vote in the Democratic party no matter what their affiliation. The primaries in January were fully open; and the decision to close them in June will not easily stand constitutional scrutiny. In any challenge, Michigan will be criticized for proposing a re-run without, in effect, restoring to voters the original choice they had—whether to participate in a meaningful Democratic primary.

In other words, the proposal offers a re-run for the State but not for all the voters. The state will have to assert an interest sufficient to justify this infringement on the voting rights of its citizens. Its challenge will be to show how, when the state is seeking to remedy a problem of its own making—failure in the first instance to observe party rules on timing—it can somehow discriminate against groups of its own citizens. 

The State is also vulnerable to challenge under the party rules. Since any Republican or independent who did not vote in January in the Republican primary is fully free to participate in the June primary, the effect of the proposal is to enfranchise a class of Republicans while disenfranchising a class of Democrats—the ones who chose to vote in the Republican primary when they correctly understood that the Democratic contest was meaningless. A challenge along these lines would consume time, when time is not available, and it is not clear that the party would or could approve this exclusionary feature even if the participating candidates were to agree to it. The DNC would subject itself to legal action if it proceeds with approval of the plan with these terms included.

These voting rights issues constitute a serious vulnerability in the proposed legislation and a threat to its successful enactment and implementation. 

Voting Rights Act Pre-Clearance
The June primary proposal is clearly subject to pre-clearance under the Voting Rights Act.  Because of the voter disqualification feature, together with the other extraordinary circumstances, there is no reason to believe that this review will conclude promptly or without issues raised. The Justice Department is not even required to issue its ruling until 60 days have elapsed. This timeline simply does not fit within the state timeline and may only further delay preparations. 

Further, should the Department of Justice object, the state would be barred from proceeding with its plan. Even if the Department pre-clears the election, objections could be pursued further in litigation initiated under another provision (Section 2) of the Voting Rights Act.

Additional Issues:  Implications for Litigation
Under the bill, and in connection with meeting the demands of an election under the schedule it establishes, there are additional sources of potential legal challenge. Each of these is addressed briefly here:

(1)  Voter Affirmation
The proposed legislation would call for voters to affirm that they have not participated in any other Presidential primary election in this calendar year. Should the election be close, it foreseeable that these affirmations would become a source of challenges, as we have already seen, in Texas, similar demands for the verification of up to one million voters' eligibility. Any such challenge would delay results on a timetable that does not allow for delay.

There is also a significant danger here of potential voter confusion:  a voter might affirm that he or she did not participate in any other Presidential primary, by which the voter might mean the prior Democratic primary, with the result that the voter would be subject to investigation for falsely affirming what he or she believed to be true. 

The result here could be extensive litigation, embarrassment to the voters, and eventual loss of credibility for the election.

(2)  UOCAVA
It is a serious risk that, under the highly compressed timetables established under the proposed bill, Michigan will be unable to satisfy the requirements for compliance with the Uniformed And Overseas Citizens Absentee Voting Act (UOCAVA), which was designed to protect our men and women in uniform, among others. The Election Assistance Commission's report in September, 2007 on the low turn-out in overseas voting called on States and local election authorities to attend closely to the requirements for the timely and reliable delivery and receipt of ballots. The fact that, as noted below, election administrators within Michigan have already raised the potential for administrative strain, if not breakdown, in the proposed June election squarely raises the foreseeable consequences for Michigan's performance of its obligations to these voters under the law. 

(3)  Strain on Election Preparations
Those with the most detailed knowledge about, and the greatest responsibility for, how well the proposed election will work—the clerks who will actually be charged with administering the election—have stated that the election cannot be planned and administered within this time frame.  http://blog.mlive.com/kzgazette/2008/03/saginaw_county_clerk_says_redo.html (reporting the President of the Michigan Association of County Clerks conclusion that "Our software and other equipment are not designed to run (multiple) elections at the same time. There are just so many reasons why this [June election] wouldn't work").

The professional judgments in advance of the election, warning of breakdown, will be cited in litigation over any difficulties Michigan experiences over the course of endeavoring to run this election.  If breakdowns occur, and especially if the election is close, it is likely that Michigan's attempt to hold this election on this timetable, in the face of these warnings from the responsible local officials, will weigh heavily against its legal position. In any litigation, it is sure to be noted, as in the past, that "Michigan is the largest . . . state that today place[s] responsibility for conducting elections primarily at the municipal level.   . . . Some 274 city clerks and 1,242 township clerks . . . are primarily responsible for the actual administration of Michigan elections." Steven F. Huefner, et al., From Registration to Recounts:  The Election Ecosystems of Five Midwestern States 88 (2007). An election held without regard to the independent and professional judgment of the responsible officials will, in the event of breakdown, subject the state and the party to adverse consequences in any subsequent legal accounting. 

A Note on Financing
I have further reviewed the state's plan to collect the funds needed for this election from private sources. It appears that, under Michigan law, the State may, if it "appropriates" the money by separate enactment, invite private parties, individuals or groups, to contribute on an unlimited basis to support a public function such as this conduct of this election. 

To the extent that this extraordinary financing provision raises issues, these arise under the Federal Election Campaign Act of l971. Throughout press accounts, supporters of the proposal and others commenting on it have referred to the private funding as "soft money."  Now in formal use following the enactment of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002, this term covers any funds raised and spent outside the FECA's contribution limits, source restrictions and reporting requirements to influence a federal election.  Neither the national party nor candidates may solicit such funds, nor may others "acting on their behalf" as their agents. 

We could expect that this issue may be raised—and it has already been identified by a leading reform organization, Democracy 21, a leading supporters of the BCRA "soft money" reforms. http://www.democracy21.org/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={91FCB139-CC82-4DDD-AE4E-3A81E6427C7F}&DE={93E58584-8019-4201-A02C-4519BC65B974

Since the state is acting on behalf of the party, with the expected assistance of the candidates, a creditable case may be made that all soft monies raised have been impermissibly solicited on behalf of at least the Democratic National Committee and, possibly, Senators Obama and Clinton (to the extent that their donors are encouraged or motivated to volunteer funds).  It is therefore well within the realm of possibility that such a case will be made, subjecting the party and its candidates to potential liability.

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Comments

Like Glen Beck says--Hilary--

TOO BAD

Your leaders-- not Barrack Obama-- broke the rules.  Blame them --ignorant clintonites--not Obama.
In fact,  FIRE THEM,,IMPEACH THEM,, WERE IS THE VOICE OF THE VOTERS IN MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA--ARE YOU COWARDS? CAN'T YOU PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT IS DUE--WITH YOU STATES' LEADERSHIP? I AM EMBARRASSED TO CALL YOU MY COUNTRY-MEN- BECAUSE YOU, THE PEOPLE OF THE STATES OF MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA HAVE NO GUTS!

YOU SIT THERE AND CRY, "UNFAIR, MY VOTE SHOULD COUNT!"
AND I AGREE--IT SHOULD--  BUT WHO REALLY DISENFRANCHISED YOU---YOUR STATES'--LEADERSHIP--

I SHOULD HAVE BEEN WATCHING MARCHES IN THE STREETS OF FLORIDA AND DETROIT LAST NIGHT WHICH INSISTED THE THE STATE LEADERSHIP RESIGN FROM OFFICE IMMEDIATELY--OR PAY FOR A NEW ELECTION FROM THEIR OWN POCKETS--OR THE THEY SHOULD BE IN COURT FOR THIS TRAVISTY.

THIS WOULD NOT STAND IN THE STATE WHERE I AM FROM.
Umm.  Good points now is anybody else thinking about these points.  What good is a revote when everyone can't revote?
So to all you Obamacans who said Obama is NOT standing in the way of a re-vote......LOL
You are all a bunch of koolaid drinking drooling cult memebers...Who are ruining our chances of fixing our country...
They are right on the money. I do not believe that the people of Michagan or Florida are dumb enough to believe that it is the candidate's fault why the delegates are not being counted. They will still vote for who they choose in the general election.
OK, I gotta admit that I didn't read the whole thing (thank you for posting it since it seems to be part of some big Clinton misinformation campaign, thank you for allowing us to see the actual document)...but this makes my point exactly.

This is the problem with a re-do at this point in the game.  Any re-do would probably have to be a complete redo at this point...(perhaps allowing anyone to vote, I guess, who knows).  It is a mess, its not Obama's fault its a mess, he is merely pointing out its a mess.

As a CT voter and an Obama supporter, honestly I view Mich. just as any other state...it would have been nice if they had one genuine primary (or caucus) at one genuine point in time and IT COUNTED.  I have no problem with Mich. getting to vote.  But any vote now that is not fair cheapens the whole national Dem. primary so far.

It scares me that this is how Clinton wants to take the nomination.  I am truly sorry to Mich. voters, I really am.  But this is just unreal at this point.

Hold the true people responsible, not Obama.

Holy cow.

Obama 08
Bottom line.....a revote has to do with holding the Party together and winning in November.
A re vote just doesn't seem possible, there are too many ways for it to go wrong, too many people left out. I guess that's why we are supposed to follow rules. Too bad for Michigan, they should be mad at their State Party, why change the date and disqualify yourselves?  
Hence the natural problem with the idea of a "do over" - you can't REALLY go back and do the thing over, since the conditions surround the original event have changed, and Obama is right to point that out. Since Hillary agreed to play by the rules, and was on the record as saying that the votes from Michigan wouldn't count for anything anyway, SHE's the one who's trying to change the rules now - not Obama. Sorry Michigan - your party leaders screwed you up. Better luck next time.
You know, I do not understand this argument. Sen. Obama consistently states her want to 'Unite' this country yet, from all the reports I read, it is the Obama Campaign that indicates he does not agree to the re-vote; in either FL or MI...

So how can you disenfranchise millions of voters yet state you want to "Unite" America??

Makes no sense to me at all!!

KET THE VOICES BE HEARD   --THIS IS AMERICA!!
Masterful. On a day when Clinton comes to Michigan to spout words like "disenfranchisement" when arguing in favor of a re-vote, Obama's campaign releases a thorough dissection of relevant legal precedent surrounding the issue. I particularly enjoy how they point out potential lawsuit-worthy problems with the re-vote, and use the Clintons' request for signature verification in the Texas caucus as an example of the fact that if there's a way to sue, someone's going to sue.
I dont understand one thing. republicans voted in their own primary because they thought the democractic primary was meaningless. Now their vote is already counted. So why should they be allowed to vote again and have TWO votes counted. In NY, you can only vote in primaries affiliated with your party, case closed. Not even independents vote here in primaries. I dont understand how a registered republican looks to re register as a democrat and then register back. Im a liberal democrat who usually votes that way, except in the case of my very local election, as our local state stenator representing our district is a moderate republican and has been doing a bang up job in our little corner of the world. What is all of this renouncing parties for one election here and there. perhaps we should do away with the registered party system. As for the democrats in Mi and FL why should they be penalized because the party changed the so called rules. And why are these rules in place? why cant each state hold their primaries when they want, albeit during the primary season.  why does Iowa get to be in front and new hampshire. These old line party rules are archaic, just as caucusus are.
I think the only fair resolution to this entire mess is to split the baby. Seat the delegates 50-50. Save the money, save the headache, save the Party.
The Democrats, once again, prove they can't get out of their own way.

Does anybody believe that the Clinton campaign would be so passionate about the disenfranchised voters in FL and MI if she hadn't lost so many other states?  She, like Obama, signed a document last year that sealed the fate of voters in both states.  To blame Obama for the current stalemate is embarrassing, underhanded and un-Presidential.  Now I see that two super delegates have announced their support for the candidate with no shot at winning the delegate race.  And these are the people who run one of two political parties in the most powerful country in the world?  I wouldn't trust the Democratic Party elite to organize a softball tournament, much less coordinate a winning campaign against the Republican machine.
Of course Obama doesnt want this ,he wouldnt win. The money is like his church being investagated for political use of non profit so I guess this could cause a problem.Obama cosigned an amendment for mail in voteing and first time it comes up he says no. Very Obamish. I never heard any thing well yes i did .He would remain partial to a man that is racist but now we know what keeps his wife's racism fed.Ferrakhan is also important to his pastor so i assume to Obama too.He rejected him when he had to. Farrakhan said it was ok he understood he had to do it for political reasons. There is so much to this man I Hope there is a CHANGE and he is not allowed the nomination.
This is craziness:

What about the people who have voted?

WHAT ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS PURPOSELY VOTING FOR CLINTON TO THROW THE ELECTION?

PLEASE EXPLAIN TO ME.

PLEASE tell me why the FL and MI voters are not blaming their OFFICIALS?

Put the blame where the blame should be cast!  
Amazing!  The read between the Obama Campaign memo and the Clinton Campaign memo.  The former filled with facts, warnings, serious issues to consider - the latter filled with cynical innuendos, dismissal of the facts and character slights. Re-doing a Michigan primary, only to have it be likely legally challenged makes no sense - even to a fifth grader!  This issue requires both campaigns to work together - now that's a new idea!
Obama has run his campaign on changing the process in Washington D.C., and including everyone in it.
But, when it comes to the Michigan and Florida primaries, he doesn't want Democrats in either state to be part of the process because he knows that they will pick Hillary as their candidate of choice.
I don't care that these two states moved up their primary dates, and I don't care about any "pledges" not to participate in them either.
I only care about Democracy, one man, one vote, and the idea that all registered Democrats everywhere should have the opportunity to pick who their candidate will be in November.
The Obama campaign's efforts to keep Democrats in Michigan and Florida from having that opportunity is contradictory to the theme of his candidacy, and makes him look like a complete hypocrite.
I think the only fair resolution to this entire mess is to split the baby. Seat the delegates 50-50. Save the money, save the headache, save the Party.
Luanne (Sent Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:48 AM)


I completely agree, but Clinton won't agree to that. That makes the most sense, if the claim is just that they should be seated. Why waste money in a time where Americans biggest concern is the economy?
I'm a 48 yr old white male from west Michigan. I did not vote in our primary because it was clear from the rules established before this contest began that our state lost its delegates because our elected officials played chicken with the DNC. I am a veteran and believe with all my heart that our right to vote as and American citizen is sacred.
You can not change the rules of the game in the middle of it, the beginning of it, or the end of it. Our state blew it for the primary. It is NOT either of the candidates fault.
The Rules are the Rules.
I am anxiously waiting to vote for our next President in November; when my vote will count.
President Barack Obama.
President of all of us.
People are blinded by what they don't want to see. The comments about Obama not wanting a revote is really taking things out of context and then putting it into "spin" cycle.  True, perhaps if it was a bottom line decision based on Obama having the lead advantage his decision might be for no revote. Obama for the untiy of the party and voters will support a revote but it has to be "right". Hillary is trying to stack the deck in her favor based on manipulating the situation. Hillary, you can't play it both ways.
Being from Michigan it's the leaders fault. Not Sen. Obama's. They knew what would happen in the fall if they went ahead with Jan. 15th. Ickes voted to strip Michigan of their delegates and now sits here saying they should be seated? OK. Sen. Clinton is trying to find anything to help her win it. She had no problem with it earlier but when she realized she really needed Mich, Fla and their supers all of a sudden you aren't letting the voters voices be heard. Hey Hillary maybe you should talk to your supporter Gov. Granholm who went ahead with this primary.
YES WE CAN!!!! drool, slobber, YES WE CAN!! fawn, drool, slobber.... ah... CHANGE!!!!droooooolllslooobbberrrrroohhhhhmyyyymminnnddddissss gonnnnnneeeeee!!
Well reasoned, well thought-out, logical memo...

if you read Clinton's rebuttal - you won't be so lucky. It is a mess of mud-slinging and despirate grasping at anything and everything...and it contains several contridictions with statments and actions of Hillary's campaign.
The only fair way is to count the votes the way they are. Seems like Barry wants to steal them. He gets special treatment for everything else. Hillary won them bottom line.
Yeah, what about the Democrats that voted for republicans so that their vote would count.  If you are stating fairness, they should be aloud to revote too.
Obama is trying to disenfranchise voters? Imagine that. I guess he didn't mean a word of his "big" "speech" yesterday. What a joke.

Of course the Michigan and Florida voters needs to have their votes count. It's absurd to think otherwise. The Dems cannot win without them in November. Every state must have full participation in the DNC convention in August.

The Dems need to get Obama out of this race before he completely destroys any chance of victory in November.

Obama is unelectable. Yesterday, his fatal mistake in not completely disassociating himself with the racist, anti-white, anti-semitic, anti-American, pro-Louis Farakaan black supremecy Nation of Islam supporter is the death knell for this and any future campaign. Obama is toxic now. No Pres. nomination, No VP nomination, No re-election to the U.S. Senate.

The Obamarama is OVER.

What kind of character and judgment does Barack Obama have to subject his own two young daughters to the hateful, divisive, anti-American diatribes of his "mentor" and "close friend" Jeremiah Wright in a so-called "church"?????????????????????????????????

Wow.  These are really serious issues and anyone who is advocating for a Michigan revote needs to address each one and explain how they can be resolved.  We can't just have a new election without making sure that it is LEGAL and FAIR.  

And why is everyone assuming Obama would lose Michigan?  Hillary only got 55% of the vote when we was unopposed.  That's pretty bad.
The whole idea of a Michigan primary re-vote is crazy.  Obviously there are all kinds of factions who disagree with Michigan's disenfranchisement (ironically most of which are from other states).  But changing the vote now will produce entirely different results (remember Edwards, Biden, etc.).

This opens up a whole slew of sticky problems.  I don't think we want to go there.

And let's face it, if there is a re-vote, Clinton and Obama will have a tie in delegates.  Furthermore, the threshold to win nomination would rise!  What's the point in tearing the Democrat party apart to extend the inevitable.
IF OBAMA THINKS HE IS GOING TO WIN THE WHITE HOUSE...

****HE HAD BETTER THINK AGAIN*****

AS I AM A VOTER WHO WILL REMEMBER THAT HE STATES ONE THING ABOUT UNITY IN THE COUNTRY  --YET, AS USUAL DOES A COMPLETE 360 AND IS WILLING NOT HAVE HAVE VOICES HEARD..

THANK YOU DNC  --YOU JUST HANDED THE WHITE HOUSE TO THE REP. PARTY  --ON A GOLD PLATED PLATTER !!

YOU SURE CAN BE PROUD OF YOUR LEADERSHIP SKILLS NOW !!
Hey ALL YOU HILLARY SUPPORTERS LISTEN UP!

Hillary Clinton is a carpetbagging hack who is almost as deceptive as Georgieboy Bush. But don't worry she's working on it and will soon catch him.
She is neither a feminist icon nor the bride of Satan.
SHE IS an extremely opportunistic person who will stop at NOTHING to get what she wants.
Her specious claims of "experience" are laughable at  best. Her voting record in the senate reflects her craven political positioning. Using her logic The Republicans should push Laura Bush for president.
How much tea and cookies does a woman have to ingest to gain the "experience" that Clinton claims?

One last question: Would you be willing to let your doctor's wife perform surgery on you because of her "experience" as a Doctors wife?
That's what I thought, of course not.
Hey ALL YOU HILLARY SUPPORTERS LISTEN UP!

Hillary Clinton is a carpetbagging hack who is almost as deceptive as Georgieboy Bush. But don't worry she's working on it and will soon catch him.
She is neither a feminist icon nor the bride of Satan.
SHE IS an extremely opportunistic person who will stop at NOTHING to get what she wants.
Her specious claims of "experience" are laughable at  best. Her voting record in the senate reflects her craven political positioning. Using her logic The Republicans should push Laura Bush for president.
How much tea and cookies does a woman have to ingest to gain the "experience" that Clinton claims?

One last question: Would you be willing to let your doctor's wife perform surgery on you because of her "experience" as a Doctors wife?
That's what I thought, of course not.
JA JA JA JA JA, IT MAKE A LOT OF SENSE, Obama doesnt want to count michigan and florida because iti s big state and he knows that he has no chance there, either in florida.  Now, he is against the idea of "each vote must count"  now, what i will suggest is that MI do it over and nobody vote for him.  Obama is just a player, and using his nice speech skills and the media support to convince AA, plpaying with them and using them to be ahead, but, WILL OBAMA WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION?  OF COURSE NO.  AMERICA WONT VOTE FOR HIM, TRUST ME ON THIS ONE.
ONE SIMPLE REASON WHY MICHIGAN AND FLORIDA NEED TO BE RE-DO, IS BECAUSE NONE OF THE RUNNERS HAVE ENOUGH VOTE TO WIN THE NOMINATION... HOW DO YOU SEE IT?
WHAT REALLY AMAZE ME IS TAHT EVEN WHEN THE  MEDIA HAS BEEN PUSHING AND WORKING 100% FOR OBAMA, ADN TEH AA HAVE BEEN 90% FOR HIM, (RACIST APPROACH)HE STILL HAS BEEN UNABLE TO WIN THE NOMINATION... WHAT DOES IT TELL YOU?
Imagin this: Obama has not that vote he didnt make but might have his supporters did but anyway this is his whole  reason for being best CIC.His Judgement. He can not make a statement without that vote. He never has addressed the 18 times Iraq broke there peace treaty with us. The fact everyone,Colin Powell,the world,all usa (except Obama) thought there was wmd there .What kind of judgement would it have been not to challange Iraq (which is what this vote was to do)Wilson said Hillary used good judgement.She has over 30 flag officers and higher saying her judgement is the best.(Obama finds a handful to bring out and do there manuvers behind him)Obama says he is best because he ,being the big man would bomb Pakastan(our necular Ally.)But he would take the necular option off the table against terrorists. He would talk to Iran , N. Korean,Venasula countries that want to destroy us and Israel. Well that would make his pastor happy. Makes me nervous.
So to all you Obamacans who said Obama is NOT standing in the way of a re-vote......LOL
You are all a bunch of koolaid drinking drooling cult memebers...Who are ruining our chances of fixing our country-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phyllis - funny, I can say the same about you with all your nastiness spilling out of you. Clinton supporters are extremely negative --- and extreme about her.

I happen to feel that Clinton stands in the way of fixing our country. Her policy on mortgage freezes will drive up interest rates, essentially freezing OUT future homeowners to help those who took out mortgages that were way too big. A trade "time-out"? I'll believe that when I see it. Does it go both ways - what about food going to poor countries? What about when the price of everything goes up even more than it already has. Oh, and "Cheney's energy bill" that Clinton voted against -- after massaged by Congress actually INCREASED oil taxes and provided the most funding EVER to green energy. Clinton drives a Lexus; Obama drives a hybrid. Clinton may have had tea and cookies in Ireland while other players were making the agreement, but Obama sponsored a bill to combat loose nuclear material throughout the world before terrorists get their hands on them. Obama sponsored a bill to take care of our vets; Hillary voted for them to go into that unforesaken war in the first place - she refused to show leadership when we needed it the most! And this Wright thing? Do you realize how close she has been to Billy Graham - someone caught on tape making serious anti-Semitic remarks and plotting against Jews in journalism with Nixon? He can be forgiven, but Wright can't? Stop the double standard! Stop the toxic dialog!

Anybody else want to claim that Obama hasn't accomplished anything? Bring it on! I am DONE with the spin that HRC and Conservatives have ganged up with him on!
I love how whichever state Hilary needs at the moment, is the most important state in the union,Florida and Michigan. This is the same candidate who essentialy said Missisippi doesn't matter. And somehow no one will question her directly on why the rules should be broken this time around. I don't like her repulican-like tactics. I see her as some sort of   Republicrat
to all of you obama brats, get the message he was not on the ballot in mi. by his own choice, hillary clinton was as she should have been, mr. obama did'nt bother. now why should anyone get to add their name to a ballot just because they do not like the outcome, this is an excelent lesson in uniting the u.s., if you don't like candidates on the ballots then put your name on there after everyone has already voted, and for those who voted republican instead of mrs. clinton should not get a re-vote they did exactly what they wanted to do like it or not, please quit whining it is getting rediculous, if you can change things then go for it if you cannot then let it go.
I think that this is so sad to bad, Clinton and the Michigan voters knew what the rules were.   I do feel for them as far as their votes are concerned, but a re-vote at this time is very unfair.   That is the only reason that Clinton is pushing this.   The Indendents and Republican's can not vote, which only benefits her.   Do you thing she would be whining if the shoe were on the other foot?
Its this type of analysis and dissection of the issue at hand that will win Obama the nomination. Hillary's "flamethrower" approach to this issue (among others) is not serving anyone's best interests but hers.

I'd much rather have a level-headed rational president who thinks things through before acting. Today, of all days, we should recognize this trait and praise it.
To people like MOX and Chris Penn - Wake up and listen to the message.  It sounds like you want more of the same crap that Bush has been dealing.  HRC only took 40% of the vote in MI and she was the only one on the ticket.  How pathetic is that?  I don't think she would win in MI with a re-do.  If you believe half of what you hear in a church, especially if the pulpit is used for political rants, then you are a lemming and quite possibly can't think for yourself.  Grow up with these stupid comments.  This is all another great reason for separation of church and state, which our forefathers knew was absolutely important over 200 years ago.  Now all of sudden in our modern age, everyone wants to inject religion... big mistake.  Believe what you want in church, but don't try to sway me on my beliefs or push it politically.

Time to unite the Dems.  

Obama O-Eight
There is a reason they called it a “REVOTE/REDUE”. So, if they decided to let the two states vote on this primary, they need to let every one vote or revote.  
"I dont understand one thing. republicans voted in their own primary because they thought the democractic primary was meaningless. Now their vote is already counted. So why should they be allowed to vote again and have TWO votes counted."
^^^^^^^^^^^

That's the problem. They can't be allowed to vote twice. But if you don't let them vote twice, then the results will not accurately reflect the will of the people. There are many people for whom their preference is: 1) Obama; 2) McCain; 3) Hillary. So for those Independents and Republicans who WOULD have voted for Obama if they could have, but instead voted for McCain as a 2nd choice, are now disqualified for any possible re-vote. Since Obama gets more support from cross-over Independents and Repubs, this would UNFAIRLY skew the results in favor Hillary.

The truth is, there is NO solution that is both fair AND legal that would allow a re-vote. And it's not Obama's fault in the least - it's a matter of law and fairness.
I am a Mid Michigan citezen, who was fully aware of the situation our legislature put in place. and I feel that the powers that be will feel my angst in the next state election. I DID NOT VOTE. I knew the rules, knew the reasons, and chose to boycot, as my preffered candidate was not available. Now, I would love for the chance to vote for Obama and end this madness. What I can't do is reconcile the cost/benifit analysis. 15-20 million for what?

for Obama to win, and widen his lead. For Hillary to win, and barely dent her margin. What is the point. Hillary won in MI by 10 points over "Uncommited" great. Go Hill. She litterally barely beat nobody.
How is she going to fare any better this time around.

So as an Obama supporter, let me float this: Seat the delegates as they stand; Hillary 55%, and give Barack the remaining 45%. Look Ma, I just saved 20 million dollars. This is progress, and a suitable way to get seated. And coming from an Obama fan, I think it's plausible.

Seriously, what is the Clinton thinking on this? If she can't beat "Nobody", how can she beat Obama?
I sorry for the MI and Fl voters, but you should blame your state officials.  This proves that you need to watch who you vote into office, because it looks like their officials did not look out for their voters.  (tipical politics)



Don't be so simple Hillary fans, Obama isnt standing in the way of Michigan and Florida re-votes, the state LAWS are.  You cannot bend the law to your own needs - rules are rules and they need to be followed.
Can you imagine the problems that would be created by a rushed, chaotic re-vote in either state?  You think we have problems and divisions now!  I would be more sympathetic to Clinton's position if she hadn't agreed to the rules in the beginning.  Of course she wants a revote.  But she needs to stop making the case that it's about fairness.  It's not.  It's about advantage.  And she's demanding that Obama supports her position in this despite the flaws in her arguments.  Why should he?  Even if he was sure he would win a re-do, why extend this conflict for another two months just to pick up a few more delegates?  Why leave the super delegates frozen until June.  We can only can imagine what Clinton's positon would be if the situation were reversed.  ("Is he kidding?  I wasn't even on the ballot.")  
What a bunch of garbage. How can the Hillary's campaign send this stuff out with a straight face. I live in Michigan and can tell you that the Obama campaign did not try to have us vote uncommitted. It was the democratic committee that urged us to vote this way to protest the DNC's removal of MI delegates. Clinton could have helped by not having her name on the ballot to show she disagreed with MI breaking the rules. Instead she wants to use breaking the rules as a mean to seat her delegates. The campaign ahs said that it thinks the votes should be counted from the first primary. To everyone, except members of her campaign, this is laughable. OBAMA'S NAME WAS NOT ON THE BALLOT!! Any sane person can see that is not a fair vote.

The real issue is the logistics of ensuring another fair election in the short time frame that is left. Michigan had well over a year to prepare for the primary vote and the Clinton camp expects us to be able to do a legitimate re-vote in less than three months. Elections take more than money. It also takes up goverment and civilian worker's time. Everyone knows MI is having economic problems and to ask us to divert much needed resources to another election is selfish. If she really cared about MI voters she would be asking people to raise money to help our economy instead of hurting it by asking it to hold another election. Go Obama!
I don't see why, demographically, Obama wouldn't have a good shot at taking Michigan like he took Wisconsin and Illinois.  But the memo makes sense.  This would not be a democratic vote.  I have pals that cast a Republican ballot back in January that would have much rather cast a vote for a Democrat.  They had no reason to know they would be disqualifying themselves from a future "do-over" and would be understandable pissed to find this out.
So the people who voted before, couldn't revote, because the other candidates weren't on the ballot?  Am I understanding this right?  And if Republicans voted then, but now owuld rather vote for Obama, b/c his name wasn't on the ballot, they couldn't do so?
If they are doing a revote...why not just scrap the other primary and start over then, b/c at the time they said it wouldn't count anyway?  This is insane if I'm taking this the right way.  If this is what they are going to do...why even bother.  Go with the original rule.  None of them count!
Clinton...trying to ramrod the state...and the voters...flying to michigan...to help the good old voters!  Do the michigan voters want a primary that some people's votes wouldn't be counted in this primary?  How can they do this?  
Ahhhh...never mind I would expect nothing less from Clinton...win at all costs.
She has destroyed her own party...to win at any expense!  atta girl!!!!


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