Of course, you can count on the Republicans to twist the plan and distort it as a cut and run surrender plan.  

Can you please post a list of names? Who's running on this platform and where?

The sooner we're out, the better.

At the EXACT same time Bush was delivering his speech about how well the surge is 'working'; there was breaking news showing the eruption of violence in Iraq's "green zone" this morning!

(Please cover this!)

This new Dem "plan" is nothing more than the same old retreat and defeat plan.  In order to get out of Iraq without losing the war we have to win it first.  I have been in this war so if you are going to call me a "war monger" or whatever please do keep in mind that I was there, I did fight there, and I have seen more than my share of the war.  I hate war and definately did not "enjoy" myself there, but I will be damned if I would just walk away in defeat now, we have invested too much to lose.  

Hillary is saying that Obama doesn't care about voters in Florida and Michigan but she does. What does she really mean?

Hillary is saying that all the delegate including the pledge are free and can vote for anyone. This means all the primary and caucus voting doesn't matter.

People in Florida and Michigan, please think about this, if Hillary is willing to go after the pledge delegate and shows that she doesn't care about millions of voters who voted in almost 40 states, do you really think she cares about voters in Michigan and Florida. Clintons will do anything to win meaning lie, cheat and steal. I used to be big fan of Clintons but this is really low.

Any plan that gets our guys out, with reasonable care, could work. Iraq is sitting on their duff like Bush is, not doing anything because we are still there. If the country goes down in flames, let it go down alone. Right now it's killing us all to be there.

I am encouraged to see that those who actually DO have the power to create the necessary change are finally realizing that they must put their heads together and come up with a plan of action; not based on 'get us out now at whatever cost because we shouldn't be there in the first place', but rather based on realizing the position we are currently in and the ripple effect that will occur when we do change direction to work towards bringing our men and women home.

Side note...I pray for the families of those lives lost. We must note that it was civilian lives, men and women who are there doing the 'diplomatic' thing. Thank you to those who choose to put themselved in harm's way for the prosperity of others - whether you wear a uniform or not!

Breaking News!

Hillary was seen in 1940 flying a signal engine jet across Japan to drop the first bomb on our enemies. It was later reported Hillary landed then crawled belly up to single handedly capture General Hajime Sugiyama before dragging him back to the US to announce victory.

More Breaking News at 10!

My sympathies to the vet. I was in Nam, and at least you're dry most of the time. So how many more wars do we have to fight, with no good reason, before people realize that eveyone looses? And unlike a lot of the guys out there now, we learned while we were there, that it was a set up to loose war.

blah blah blah.... that is all I hear from alot of the crowd on here.  you have never been there and know nothing about war except what you see on tv.  hope you enjoy that special place in your own world where the terrorist will suddenly love us when we leave Iraq.  call it what you will, but if we just pull out it is a retreat and that does mean we lost.  history has shown when we retreat in the face of the terrorist they get bolder and do more damage.  don't believe me?  look it up, see what happened when we tucked tail and left somalia, when we didn't really do anything when they bombed our embassies and our navy ships.  enjoy your sheltered existance and I am really happy that many brave people have come before you to make sure you can live in your own fantasy land.

a vet,  So you think it was just be a "walk away"... I am a war veteran too.  How do we continue to fight blindly?.. How many more death need to occur before we "WIN".  How much more money do the investors of the war need to bank before we "WIN".  If this war was such a big MUST why haven't there been a "draft" so that others can participate.  WHY do we send the same people over for 3 or 4 tours.  It's time to leave and that's that.  THERE WILL be no shame except for the persons that lied about getting us here in the first place and are too ashamed to admit they made a mistake.  SHOULD our Arms forces just arbitary be killed just so some people can save face...HELL NO.  IT's Been to long...bring out troops home and start a criminal trail for the people that started the MESS in the first place.

Teresa-
What you are witnessing is that when the Iraqi leaders pledge a crackdown there is retaliation. It is to be expected. In order to restructure the chain of command in the area you have to expect that this will happen, making us and the Iraqis more vulnerable. That is why it is essential for us to realize that no matter what direction we take, there will be consequences - and because we are in a time of war, that means the price to be paid is often innocent lives.

The democratic party has been demanding that we turn authority over to the Iraqi leaders. That is what is happening and because of this we are seeing a surge in violence. You cannot complain that their leaders are doing nothing and then complain when we have to deal with retaliation as they do!

The hard part is over. Going in there without just cause was hard. Hard hearted. Hard headed. Hard-up for oil. Cowboy Bush's war has brought about countless broken hearts over dead, and wounded loved ones in this country, as well as,  a lot of 'Hard-Feelings', harboured against us world-wide.

'So'?....... What's 'harder' than that response to the reality of 4,002 dead Americans?

Doing the right thing, getting out, is'nt so hard. We found our way in there. We can find our way out. Perhaps the Iraqi people might even show us the door, since we pretend it is so 'hard' to find.

Pulling for Obama '08

And what exactly does "win it first" with regard to leaving Iraq mean?  What constitutes "a win"?   Will their be a treaty?  How long will it take to "win" this war?  John McCain says another 100 years.  GW Bush has no timetable other than his long planned intention to had the mess off to the next President and head of to Crawford to cut brush.  There is no end in sight, no "winning it first".  It's not a football game as many Americans like to view every conflict.  It's a castastrophe guaranteed to suck billions more from the U.S. Treasury and take thousands of additional lives along with inflicting devasting mental and physical injuries on our soldiers.

The plan should be simple.

Stage 1: Meet with the Milaki government and give them a firm timetable so they can prepare for the withdrawal of US troops.

Stage 2: Redeploy our troops out of the chaotic Iraq traingle and place them along the borders and out of harms way in positions where they can prevent any incursion or interference into Iraq by Iran, Syria or any other hostile nation. At the same time create safe havens at these border bases for any Iraqi female and or children under age 19 who seek a safe haven from any pursuant clashes between opposing Iraqi forces. Provide safe transport to these temporary safe havens for any female or child under age 19 who wish to take advantage of this offer.  Staff the safe havens with UN Peace Keeping Forces supported by the remaining US troops. Make it clear and clearly mark locations where any unidentified or unapproved vehicle or other motorized transport that comes within 5 miles of any of these safe havens will be immediately destroyed. Maintain air power over the entire country to prevent any major outside interference or invasion.

Stage 3: Continue to train Iraqi troops at locations along the border or in Kuwait to boost the Iraqi fighting forces and continue to supply air support for the same.

Stage 4: Begin replacing remaining US troops with UN Peace Keeping Forces at the border bases and begin redeploying US forces out of the border bases and to US bases in Turkey and Kuwait so that they maintain a close proximity and supportive role for the border based and safe haven based UN Peace Keeping Forces. Warn all outside nations to let Iraq settle their own issues and to stay out of Iraq.

Stage 5: Bring home a pre-planned identified number of US troops beginning in Stage 1 and continue the drawdown in a careful and deliberate manner that is safe and secure for all US troops as they are replaced with UN Peace Keeping Forces in the remaining Iraq border bases and safe havens. Maintain US air power over Iraq out of air bases in Kuwiat and Turkey. Take out by air any newly identified terrorists training camps or terrorists bases being established in Iraq.

Stage 6: After Iraqi opposing forces have settled their scores and differences and one gains control of the country whether Sunni, Shiite or Kurd allow private firms to enter Iraq to help rebuild the nation using funds from Iraqi oil sales and by way of contributions from other nations. At the same time those who sought safety in a border safe haven can begin returning to their homes to rebuild their communities.

Stage 7: Provide support in friendship and econimically for the new Iraqi government as long as they clearly support and condemn all terrorists activity and organizations, and take whatever actions are necessary to mainitan Iraq as a terrorist free training nation.

a vet...
The fact that you fought in Iraq is commendable, your efforts are heroic. The question I want you to respond to is: How do we know when we have "won" the war? Bush proclaimed that his mission was accomplished years ago. If we "accomplished" his objective then, why are we still there? Will we have "won" the war after the 100,000th American has been injured, or the 5,000th troop has been killed? Who is going to make that determination? No Republican (especially a Conservative one) knows the answer, McCain says we will know in about 100 yrs. I am a Viet Nam vet, was glad when we left, we are better off, they are better off. We did not lose, they did not win.  Interesting!

Why doesn't John McCain and Joe "Traitor" Lieberman go back to Iraq and take a stroll in Basra... They say the surge is working, right? Looks totally safe from the pictures on the news today. That smoke must be from family picnics or something.

http://laststopmidwest.blogspot.com/

a vet,

It would be helpful if you define "defeat" "success" "win" "lose". Which war and where?


We won the war agaist Saddam and Iraq. And we are now policing a civil war that was not planned for by this moronic administration. We are going backwards in the war against Al Queda and the Taliban in Afghanistan because all our resources are in Iraq. Al Queda in Iraq is small in numbers and will never be defeated. We could continue to fight them there with smaller troop levels. The war with sunni and shite is for the Iraqi government and the people to work out. Our indefinite military occupation isn't going to speed this up without some consequences for not meeting benchmarks that Bush imposed apparently just for show. The "global war" on terrorism is going badly because anti American sentiment is up all around the world because of the decision of this administration.

It's never as simple as WIN OR LOSE.  

I agree with 'a vet." I too fought in an unpopular war,and considered it my duty to do so. That is what amazes me about all these liberal bloggers, the 18-29 age range,who don't have a clue about what they're talking about. We do have too much invested (in money and lives) to turn back now. To "win" isn't the right term, but stabilization is. This strategy may or may not work, but the fact is, we are in now, and you can't just pull out.Concerning the economy, the TAX and SPEND liberal plans don't hold water. The democrats want  to throw money at a problem, and we as a country are all but bankrupt now.We need some federal oversight, but SOCIALIZING everything is not the answer. We need, as a country, to remain somewhat moderate in our fiscal plans going forth, and the democrats "plan" is too risky for our unstable economy.  

*** THE SURGE IS NOT WORKING *** THE SPIN IS ***  What worked to temporarily help quell the violence in Iraq is the arms and financial support provided to certain factions, with the encouragement to fight the terrorists and stop fighting each other.  Now we have created a country of several small armies, all having different political ambitions, within a fragile quiet.  We are now literally on the edge of an all out civil war with Bush continuing to tell his lies and hoping to just make it to next January.  How much has this failure really cost us, especially in what we haven't focused on because of our gross commitment in Iraq?  How much is it going to cost us on into the future?  How much have Special Interests and a select few benefited?  All while we continue to be subjected to the SPIN!

I rest my case.

From Free and the Brave: "... the TAX and SPEND liberal plans don't hold water. The democrats want  to throw money at a problem, and we as a country are all but bankrupt now."  Interesting.  The "don't tax but spend Republicans and Conservatives (a misnomer if there ever was one), want to continue spending billions every month in Iraq - indefinitely ( and at least for the next 100 years according to John McCain) and without any oversight or accountability for where the money is going. Under GW Bush and his Congressional enablers, the country has gone from a surplus to a huge deficit.  Bush never vetoed one spending bill under the Republican Congress.  The war alone has cost the American taxpayers almost a trillion dollars.  Who is paying for it?  Who will continue to pay for it?  The Republicans, under the sorry "leadership" of GW Bush, never questioned where the money for the war would come from or how it would be paid for.  Wolfowitz said Iraqi oil revenues would pay for it.  Lots of smoke and mirrors.  And the massive war spending continues while Bush fiddles and the ecomomy sinks further into recession, the dollar sinks in value, oil closes over $107/barrel, brokerage houses get bailouts and Conservatives... think they are.

Win what? Lose people and treasure. Defeat who? Who the hell are we fighting? We are an army of occupation. Name one army that has sucessfully occupied any country for very long. Lets gather our brave soldiers and concentrate on what we have always done best. "Defend our country" not occupy someone elses country.

"This strategy may or may not work, but the fact is, we are in now, and you can't just pull out.Concerning the economy, the TAX and SPEND liberal plans don't hold water. The democrats want  to throw money at a problem, and we as a country are all but bankrupt now."


Man - where to start?

""This strategy may or may not work, but the fact is, we are in now, and you can't just pull out."

Absolutely - stupidly follow a failed plan. We must!


"the economy, the TAX and SPEND liberal plans don't hold water."

Braaawwwk! Fox news wanna cracker! What are you talking about? (As if you knew!) I suppose the "borrow from China and pass on the bill" DOES hold water?!




"The democrats want  to throw money at a problem, and we as a country are all but bankrupt now."

Stop watching FOX SPEWS. The Democrats want to GET OUT, not "throw money at it"! No wonder people like Bush can get "elected" in this country!


BTW - I'm a vet, too.

Free and the Brave,

It amazes me how the Vetnam generation like yourself got us into this mess in Iraq and now have the guile to tell us 18-29 age range how to fix it....stay the course and countiue to trust those in the administration who have been wrong every step of the way.

You need to open up your mind a bit and stop thinking in terms that Rush and BillO have laid out for you. "TAX AND SPEND LIBERAL" "SOCIALIZE" "SCARY STUFF". We are all but bankrupt becasue of the people you have supported for 8 years. And the average american is in no way better off for all this spending.  

My generation is going to have to pay for this war that has done nothing but lowering our standing in the world. It's time for new leadership and new ideas.

I am as disillusioned with GWBush these last 4 years as I was with his father.  Both ignored advisers and lost the respect of the American people during their last 2 years in office. McCain needs to pull away now from the  talk of staying in Iraq, before what's left of the Republican party thinks he has lost touch as well.

This is good news -- progress, thought, movement, constructive efforts, collaboration, initiative.

Remember Kerry's touching statement -- how do you ask a man to be the last one to die...

I would like more ongoing reporting on veterans' issues. We have such a bad history on how we treat veterans and my 6 year-old son's generation will still be dealing with the fallout of the Iraq war if we don't take care of the troops when they return. I often see the # of US soldiers killed, but rarely the total estimates of Iraqi civilians killed and less often features on the more widespread other horrors -- disfiguring and disabling injuries, current increased child abuse and domestic violence in military families, post traumatic stress symptoms, homeless young vets, and economic and care issues related to returning vets(Walter Reed etc).

Also, I am so glad that First Read is issue-focused today rather than dem horse-race focused. The news was starting to feel like a ping pong game of he said she said conference calls.

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