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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



The delegate fight: In until the end

Posted: Monday, March 31, 2008 9:21 AM by Mark Murray

On Sunday, the Washington Post ran this front-page story, “In her most definitive comments to date on the subject, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton sought … to put to rest any notion that she will drop out of the presidential race, pledging in an interview to not only compete in all the remaining primaries but also continue until there is a resolution of the disqualified results in Florida and Michigan… ‘I know there are some people who want to shut this down and I think they are wrong,’ Clinton said in an interview during a campaign stop here Saturday. ‘I have no intention of stopping until we finish what we started and until we see what happens in the next 10 contests and until we resolve Florida and Michigan. And if we don't resolve it, we'll resolve it at the convention -- that's what credentials committees are for.’”

“‘We cannot go forward until Florida and Michigan are taken care of, otherwise the eventual nominee will not have the legitimacy that I think will haunt us,’ said the senator from New York. ‘I can imagine the ads the Republican Party and John McCain will run if we don't figure out how we can count the votes in Michigan and Florida.’’

 “As the smoke cleared from this weekend's regional Democratic conventions, Barack Obama emerged with a majority of the state's at-large presidential nominating delegates and possibly a majority of all Texas delegates,” the Houston Chronicle reports. “But Hillary Rodham Clinton's supporters vowed Sunday to continue the fight for Texas delegates all the way to this summer's state party convention, promising to cut his lead in delegates.” More: "Clinton won the popular vote in the March 4 primaries and a majority of the primary-allotted delegates, giving her a 65-61 lead. Obama's campaign claimed he came out of this weekend's conventions with a 38-29 at-large delegate lead, giving him a five-pledged-delegate lead over Clinton... "Clinton state Chairman Garry Mauro conceded that Obama is likely to have a 37-30 advantage in the at-large delegates, which would give Obama a total lead of three pledged delegates over Clinton."

Speaking yesterday at the California Democratic Convention in San Jose, Bill Clinton argued that Democrats shouldn’t worry about the nomination fight going into June -- and possibly beyond, NBC’s Abby Livingston notes. “Don't you let anybody tell you that somehow we're weakening the Democratic Party by telling the people in Pennsylvania and North Carolina and Indiana and Kentucky and West Virginia and Montana and South Dakota and Oregon and Puerto Rico that they count too. Chill out, we're going win this election. If we just chill out and let everybody have their say.”

But on ABC yesterday, Democratic strategist Donna Brazile -- a DNC member who has remained neutral so far -- disagreed to an extent. "This notion of bringing this fight on to the convention is not a wise idea, and I think whoever is coming up with this strategy is not looking at the math," she explained, per NBC’s Frank Thorp. Brazile also said she expects the remaining undecided superdelegates to choose their pick soon after the last primary ends: "sometime before July 4th, I am clear that the superdelegates will break one...way or the other." 
 
Brazile mentioned that Obama was the clear front-runner with more states won, more pledged delegates, and more of the popular vote, stopping short of saying that Senator Clinton should drop out of the race. But when confronted with one of Senator Clinton's trump cards, the seating of Michigan and Florida's delegates, Brazile quipped "clearly Florida and Michigan will be dealt with...but we should not tear the party up just to prove a point."

Sen. Jack Reed (D) also weighed in. “I think to this point the nomination process has been helpful,” he said yesterday, per NBC’s Sandy Luong. “It has generated an unusual amount of enthusiasm, the number of people coming out to vote and the quality of candidates I think has been very, very helpful to us. But I think we all have to recognize that it has to come to a conclusion and after the primaries I think we'll have a candidate and we'll move forward very successfully this fall.”

Reed continued: “Individual candidates have to make judgments about whether they will stay in a race or leave a race and it's a very difficult decision. Because it represents years of their lives focusing every particle of their being in their campaign. They also carry the hopes and dreams of thousands of thousands and thousands of people who support them um passionately. So that's not an easy choice but a choice only a candidate can make and I would be presumptuous to suggest one way or the other what she should do.”

The Democratic Party’s nightmare, per the AP: “The chief worry is that Clinton may carry her recent winning streak into Pennsylvania, Indiana, North Carolina and other states, leaving her with unquestioned momentum but fewer pledged delegates than Obama. Party leaders then would face a wrenching choice: Steer the nomination to a fading Obama, even as signs suggested Clinton could be the stronger candidate in November; or go with the surging Clinton and risk infuriating Obama's supporters, especially blacks, the Democratic Party's most loyal base.
 
“Some anxious Democrats want party elders to step in now to generate more ‘superdelegate’ support for Obama, effectively choking off Clinton's hopes before she can bolster them further. But many say that is unlikely, and they pray the final 10 contests will make the ultimate choice fairly obvious, not excruciating.”

The Los Angeles Times profiles Harold Ickes as Clinton's "not-so-secret" superdelegate weapon. Of course, has he been a weapon at all? "In a Clinton campaign that can seem machinelike, Ickes is conspicuous for his idiosyncrasies. A female aide said that when she noticed his dress shirt unbuttoned practically to the navel, it was like glimpsing an unzipped fly. ’I thought someone should have pulled him aside to tell him. I later came to realize that's how he wears his shirts.’”

“Temperament and eccentricities aside, with the importance of the superdelegates increasing Ickes now carries a burden that may be second only to the candidate's own. Clinton is ahead among superdelegates, but the margin has been slipping. In December, she led Obama by 106 superdelegates. In early February, the number was down to 87. Today it is 36, according to Associated Press surveys."

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The count is finished for the Texas County Conventions and Obama has a (primary + caucus) net delegate lead of 3. Clinton 95, Obama 98 per burntorangereport.com

Thanks for the explanation of the Texas two step.  If Senator Obama leads in delegate count at the end, will the media award the state to him instead of Senator Clinton?  If not, why not?
THE CLINTON CAMP SAYS THAT KENNEDY,KERRY RICHARDSON SHOULD ENDORSE HER BECAUSE SHE WON THOSE STATES WHERE THEY ARE SUPER DELEGATES.FAIR ENOUGH.ON THE FLIP SIDE THE SUPER DELEGATES OF THE STATES OBAMA WON SHOULD GO TO HIM.OBAMA WON MORE STATES WHERE THE SUPER DELEGATES ARE PLEDGED TO CLINTON. NET PLUS FOR OBAMA.
The superdelegates seem to have the power in their hands.  I suspect as Donna Brazile seems to indicate...its getting harder and harder to stay neutral.

I followed first-hand reports of the Texas county caucus results this weekend.  Some seemed above board, well-run, and courteous.  However, many seemed the opposite.  What was troubling is that Clinton seemed (once again) down and dirty trying to grab every last delegate even if she had to get nasty to do so.  All to try and pick up a couple of delegates.  The Obama campaign seemed very organized and above board.  I ended up admiring anyone who was a regular person and participated in the process (no matter who they supported) because many of those caucuses went well into the night and people put up with a lot.  Some of the Obama delegates told horrific stories about their treatment.

This needs to be explored...

I hope someone is investigating some of the greater improprieties on Saturday.

Harold Ickes is such a part of the problem.  Democratic party insider seeking to win at any cost.  No wonder he's working for Clinton, the ultimate party insider.

Obama 08
MORE DELEGATES

MORE STATES WON

MORE POPULAR VOTE

Obama 08
"We cannot go forward until Florida and Michigan are taken care of..."

I agree - but stop blaming that on Barack Obama.  It's the STATE LEGISLATURE'S fault in both instances.  So many Clinton supporters continue to blame Obama for the Florida and Michigan issues.  Wake up folks.  Get educated.

http://thepajamapundit.com/
Hillary's campaign is not only a disgrace, but it has turned into a sad pathetic comedy show.  She vowed to stay in all the way to the convention, fighting for who, her own sense of entitlement, greed and power.  

Where is that giant cane, when you need it?  STOP THE MADNESS NOW!!!
Rome didn't fall in a day.  The Democratic Establishment behind the Clintons is starting to crack but it won't go easily or quietly.
I (white southern male, 51) am an ardent Obama fan, but I really think the full primary is good for Obama:

1) It leaves no question of legitimacy in his win, every vote will be counted.

2) As Hillary's gaffes and lies and exaggerations of her former role become better known, that 28% of her supporters claiming they will vote for McCain instead of her will be significantly reduced. The secretly racist will still vote for McCain, but as people realize Hillary is just a fabricator and just as divisive now as she was in 1994, they will (perhaps reluctantly) still switch to Obama for the general. Especially if he wins it fair and square by all 50 states. They can justify their switch by the simple fact that they were out-voted and out-organized by Obama. This is one reason Obama should play strictly defense against Hillary, confronting the obvious distortions but not aggressively attacking her. Don't provide her supporters any real fodder for revenge voting, and limit the damage to the very small percentage of racists that would never vote for Obama anyway.

3) As long as there is a race, the media covers it breathlessly and at length. Obama keeps raising money and gets to introduce himself to every state, in a way tailored to that state, and he runs ads tailored to that state in local media markets. This is a win. It helps the campaign see what works and where. It keeps Democratic enthusiasm up. With half the attention on Hillary, it keeps the ball and publicity rolling mostly on the network's dime. We make a big deal about the fundraising, but this network time is worth tens of millions of dollars, and continues to introduce Obama to the nation. This is important! Many voters are STILL not paying attention to this, and the longer it goes on the more difficult it becomes for them to stay in their cocoon.

4) The only truly damaging thing for Obama is the Reverend Wright story, and in the fight against Hillary the media will just get bored with it. The news is about the new, and once the answers start sounding rehearsed and anchors cannot get people to say anything new or controversial, they will move on to something else. In large part they have, but it is good for the general for surrogates and campaign workers to have developed their defenses against this attack.

5) If you think Hillary's attacks are bad, wait until the crypto-racists weigh in during the general! Hillary is a good warm-up for Obama's team, they need the sparring, because the Republicans have proven time and again they will fight as dirty as it takes with lies and smears and fears. McCain is already challenging Obama's patriotism and international parentage with his line "The American President America has been waiting for." (Obama wouldn't be an American President? Not a TRUE American? C'mon.)

Did I miss anything? All told, although undoubtedly grueling, Hillary is easy to beat at this point and it is good for Obama if she stays in; it validate his win and keeps him in the spotlight. Three months is plenty of time to overcome McCain, I don't think that will be a problem.
http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
Si se puedo! WE MUST COUNT the undocumented voters! Undocumented voters are simply hard working people who are voting for politicians that Americans are to lazy to vote for.
Who's the best?  Obama's the best.  Take a look you sad Clintonites and you'll see that Obama did more in 8 months then most senators do in a lifetime of service.  That's the kind of president I want working for me.


To Hillary,

"You Haven't Done Nothing"

We are amazed but not amused
By all the things you say that you'll do
Though much concerned but not involved
With decisions that are made by you

But we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views
"You haven't done nothing"!

It's not too cool to be ridiculed
But you brought this upon yourself
The world is tired of pacifiers
We want the truth and nothing else

And we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views
"You haven't done nothing"!

We would not care to wake up to the nightmare
That's becoming real life
But when mislead who knows a person's mind
Can turn as cold as ice un hum

Why do you keep on making us hear your song
Telling us how you are changing right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views
"You haven't done nothing"!
Yeah

STEVIE WONDER LYRICS







I caution fellow Obama supporters to not call for a pre-mature withdrawl of Clinton from the race.  It must not seem to Clinton supporters that she was bullied out of the race or they will have a hard time supporting Obama in the general.  There are 10 contests left that give Obama multiple chances for a knockout, starting with PN.  Lets work for a knockout victory (not a split) decision so no one feels slighted in the end and all Democrats can unite to take back the Whitehouse.
I agree with Tony from Texas: 3 months is plenty of time to overcome McCain......3 MINUTES is probably more than enough time! McCain can be tied to Bush policies throughout; his support on Iraq is well known; he will lose his temper in debates; and he is OLD. His age, alone, should make people think twice.
Let Hillary stay in the race or she will say she only lost because she was forced out. Once Hillary releases her 2000 thru 2006 tax returns, she will no longer be a viable candidate. Hillary know that and will withhold them as long as possible, releasing only her 2007 tax return after April 15. Voters have a right to see her financial history before the next round of Primarys.
Memo to Senator Clinton...

Florida and Michigan have been resolved...their state legislatures can't agree on how to hold new contests so it's your proverbial dead horse.

Why do you always hold Senator Obama responsible and why does Harold Ickes never have to accept responsibility for the mess?
For me, the big issue for a longer primary battle is the cost. It would be nice if the Democrat Presidential nominee could be raising money exclusively for the Presidential campaign as early as possible. Hillary Clinton is suffering already in raising money for the Primary campaign.
I was an Obama delegate in my East Texas county (considered to be "Hillary country").  Based on our convention and what I've read about others in Texas, Hillary's delegates were taking her "I'm a fighter" statements to heart, and fighting about seating delegates and other issues.  In our convention, a Clinton delegate had considered filing a challenge before the deadline (72 hours before the convention) but did not; instead, he brought it up to the credentials committee and caused a 2 hour delay while it was sorted out.  Obama won our convention, 10 delegates to 7.  By the way, most folks I talked to would prefer either a primary or caucus, but not both.
Excellent commentary Tony C from San Antonio. Thought-provoking, to the point, and insightful. I concur on all of the points you indicated.

According to Burnt orange diaries, roughly 10% of the vote is still out, 276 of those are uncommitted super delegates and the remainder in still out in a 100 or so small counties.  

http://www.burntorangereport.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=5484
Tony C - that is the most intelligent and well-thought out post I have ever read!
I FIND THE CLINTONS IN A NO WIN SITUATION. HILLARY WILL GET OUT AFTER INDIANA. THE HAND WRITTING IS ON THE WALL...SHE MAY WIN PA (BUT NOT THE KNOCK OUT SHE NEEDED) HE WILL PICK UP NORTH CAROLINA BY A WIDE MARGIN AND INDIANA IN A 52/48 DIFFERENCE AND THAT WILL KNOCK HER OUT OF THE RACE COMPETELY

SHE NEEDS TO LEARN SHE AND HER HUSBAND DO NOT OWN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY (LIKE THEY THINK THEY OWN) AND THAT WILL END HER POLITICAL CAREER. SHE WILL BE FINISHED.

YOU CANT LIE AND CHEAT YOUR WHOLE LIFE LIKE THOSE TWO HAVE DONE AND EXPECT PEOPLE TO STAY WITH YOU. THERE MARRIAGE WAS ONE OF A LIE. ALL HIS GIRL CHASEING AND HER ACTING LIKE NOTHING WAS GOING ON BECAUSE SHE KNEW FROM THE START WHAT WAS GOING ON.

SHE IS FINISHED GOOD BYE BILLARY
I don't think there would be as much pressure for Hillary to drop out if she were not running such a nasty campaign and hurting the Democratic party in the process I notice Hillary is now playing the gender card again about the bully boys asking her to quit. Distinguished leaders such as Margaret Thatcher, Golda Meir, Indira Ghandi and Angela Merkel did not have to resort to these tricks to become leaders. Hillary is not being asked to leave because she is a woman or  or even because she is behind in delegates and popular vote, but because of the divisive ,destructive and distorting campaign she is running. It seems Ed Rendell has now joined the first rank of her surrogates/hacks


votes, but because she is a liar and a "monster who will do or say anything to win
If Clinton supporters feel she is forced out, doubt will be cast on Obama's win.  This thing has to play out or the dem's will have more trouble, not less.
I think HIl should def. stay in the race.  SOmething about Obama I just don't like.  Don't get me wrong I love his ideas and what he is preaching but I just don't see him doing all the things he "promises" he will do.  That goes for HIl too.  If he wins the nomination I will "reluctantly" still vote for him not b/c i want to but b/c I don't want another 8 years of republicans in control.  Let's hope he puts his money where his mouth is...
The Clinton campaign's hope for momentum, should be  fading faster, than, the vendor's she owes, who believed the check was in the mail.

Barack's got the momentum. He's closing in Pa.

She flails around, threatening everybody, like a   pit-bully. I don't think this is what her mother had in mind, when she pushed Hillary out the front door, to face her problems.

She knows she has a passionate base of support. She's using them as a stick to bludgeon the DNC, and divide the party. But that base is slowly eroding under her feet, because of her antics.

Still, the DNC needs to formulate a plan that will counter her rapacious behavior, without alienating those who have given her their hearts.

I feel for them.

Pulling for Obama '08

 
If Hillary wants, she should stay in the race however long she wants. It's her money, so she can spend as she sees fit. Speaking of money and finances, I wonder where the tax returns are? Wasn't the making available of tax returns a key element of her 2000 senate race? And while the 2007 tax return is important, why aren't the 2006 and earlier ones available? Didn't she release the returns through 2005 for her 2006 race?

Obama should remain vigilent, however. There is nothing that the Clintonistas won't try and they have been quiet for several days. Where are Wolfie the attack dog and Penn the Minister of Propaganda lately? Haven't heard from them for over a week. Did Rendell order them to the back of the bus while Hillary is campaigning in PA?
Hillary's thirty five years of experience in manipulating the system and cover-up do not qualify her for the presidency. On one hand Hillary says she is not going to get out of the race until all of the voters have had their say, but on the otherhand Hillary makes it clear she favors the superdelegates overturning the peoples vote should she still be behind Obama at the end... No more arrogance or sleeze in the people's house!!!!!
Hillary is a candidate and should stay in as long as she wants to. The issue is not whether she should stay in or not (stay in), its about the "Rules of Engagement"  The scorched-earth/kitchen-sink approach hurts Hillary/Obama/and the Democratic Party.  Actually she would do better by being friendlier.  However her true colors come to bear.  She doesn't tell the truth and being TRUTHFUL trumps race and gender.  
This is a primary that selects a candidate to run for office. The one that might actually put them in office is the general election. Florida & Michigan voters will certainly have their say there. They are not overlooking O'Bama's MISPEAK about the Rev. Wright or Rezko's donations. About whom he has affiliated himself for so many years. Also about the flimsy excuse as to where his records are from his Illinois legislative years. In dissarray or thrown away??? "The dog ate my homework" would have been just as good an excuse. Yes, it is true that if O'Bama wins this nomination he would have done so by hook or crook. We don't see much of Michelle lately, how visible will she be as a First Lady? What influence and/or role will she play? Yeah, America, that's just what we need in the White House for the next 4 years, 2 green horns. O'Bama has had to hide his friend (Rezko), his pastor, his legislative records, and now his wife.
The whole world is in deep trouble such as not been seen since WWII. So why not fight to put someone in office that makes us "feel good"? This is about saving our country not about sitting down at a tea party. Not about "feel good" because of a symbolic race issue. We need someone to lead us that knows what they are doing & not just someone whom thinks they know. We need someone that actually cares as Hillary does. I do not beleive she is running out of pure ambition. But I do beleive O'Bama is and is doing so out of a personal agenda to make things "right" in his view on our racial devisions. Not a time for that, too many other serious problems to be dealt with. People have wondered over the decades as to why the US is not mentioned in the Apocalyptic portion of the Bible.
Stay in Hilary.  Obamtons want you to bow out because there's several more skeletons about to jump out of the closet.  Can't wait til that embargoed tape of him front row and center praising ol REv Wright/Wrong comes out.
The way this campaign has gone, 28% of Clinton's supporters say they will vote for McCain. I dare say if the big whigs and Obamatons try to force her out that number will climb even higher.
I have relatives in Michigan who don't feel at all disenfranchised.  They thought their legislature screwed things up and will remember it when it comes time to vote for (or against) those folks next time.  They don't blame Obama and don't feel Hillary got screwed.    Politicians who want to stir things up and put their own words into voters' mouths are the 'old politics'.  Most people I know are ready for new politics.  

This was also obvious at the county conventions in Texas this weekend.  Thousands of political outsiders took part and saw first hand how poorly the old ways work for them.  I expect - regardless of who wins the presidential election in November - that Obama will be able to see fruits of his candidacy in greater local involvement in the next few years.  Local politicians should be worried.
Funny all these obama supporters - IF he was so great - he would of knocked her out by now - it would be all over - he has NOT WON!!!!!!!  Must be because there are lots of Hillary supporters - and - like it or not - Obama will not win the nomination - his background & judgment are just far too questionable to be President of the UNITED States!
I think she has a right to do what she wants and when she wants to do it.
Obama can kiss most of the Clinton supporters off for good if he through his surrogates does not stop calling for her to step out of the race before we find out something even worse than Rev. Wright. The guy is just another slimy empty suit that wants to bully the woman out of the race.
  Hill-Bill couple are no quitters.They will either split the Dem Party as happened in 1828; or force a third Nomination as in 1948. They will thus avenge the forgiveness of America which allowed Bill to escape Impeachment in 2000.
  Hill-Bill couple are no quitters.They will either split the Dem Party as happened in 1828; or force a third Nomination as in 1948. They will thus avenge the forgiveness of America which allowed Bill to escape Impeachment in 2000.
I am an Obama supporter, but I am still amazed at the whole Fl, MI debate.  People say, FL and MI violated the rules so too bad.  But NH violated that rules as well and that state was not penalized (http://www.michigandems.com/Levin-Dingell%20Letter.pdf).  Posters say that FL and MI have been settled-no revote, so no delgates.  But Howard Dean, stated that they would probably find a way to seat the FL and MI delegates.  I think that those two states with ultimately come into play.  So, we are all going to have to wait and see how this plays out.
"You just can't win," said the hare to the tortoise.
We all know how that ended. Americans hate a fixed race. Keep it going Hill! You're a profile in courage!
Obama's 48 state plan won't win in November. Count that DNC. Real Democrats Don't Quit!!
Hillary's comment about the big boys trying to bully a woman was fascinating.  Didn't HER big boys try to bully Nancy Pelosi????  

Will Hillary EVER stop having double standards?  correction, will Hillary ever have any standards?
The debate about delegates will go on long after the general election is held.  I would like to think that the problem is almost entirely the fault of the state legislatures since they were the ones that moved the dates.  To Michigan and Florida: Just because you weren't first, doesn't mean that you won't count...  In this race this year, all the states are being counted and you screwed yourselves and the voters.  I hope that the DNC just splits it 50-50 to end the issue.  


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