ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



The delegate fight: History lesson

Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 9:08 AM by Domenico Montanaro

The New York Times looks at previous delegate fights and how they took a toll on the eventual nominee. “For all the sirens warning of disaster, history offers mixed guidance on whether spirited primary fights are fatal. Many historians and analysts say that while protracted primaries can weaken a nominee, bigger factors are usually at play. Voters are often swayed by whether they feel the country is headed in the right direction. They take into account whether primary battles are personal or political. They want to see whether the winner and the loser can patch things up. And time can make a difference.”

Perhaps Dems were doomed in both 1980 and 1984, but the primary fights appeared to make the GOP’s that much easier.

Last night, the Obama campaign proclaimed -- after Mississippi certified the results of its primary earlier this month, 62.51% for Obama to 37.49% for Clinton -- that Obama had a net gain of seven delegates in the states (20-13) versus five (19-14).

And of those nine remaining Texas delegates, “Obama picked up seven of nine outstanding delegates, giving him a total of 99 Texas delegates to the party's national convention this summer. Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton won the other two, giving her a total of 94 Texas delegates, according to an analysis of returns by The Associated Press.”

The Politico asked a delegate expert to project the makeup of the credentials committee, which is based on delegates earned (big states first), as well as 25 members appointed by Dean. There's little change Clinton will control a majority but Obama may only control a very NARROW majority since, for instance, a candidates victory in a large state gets a little more weight in this allocation process than simply the candidate who wins the most delegates overall.

On some in the Democratic Party calling for Clinton to drop out… "My take on it is a lot of Senator Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting," Clinton told a local TV station in Billings, Mont. "That's just the opposite of what I believe. We want people to vote. I want the people of Montana to vote, don't you?” The Obama campaign rejected the charge, dismissing Clinton's criticism as "completely laughable."

Michigan Democratic Congressman Bart Stupak is the latest MI/FL Dem with a delegate-split plan. In a letter to the DNC, "Stupak suggested awarding the 83 pledged delegates from the state to be decided upon at congressional district conventions next month based on the results of the disallowed primary election – with 47 going to Hillary Clinton and 36 who voted ‘uncommitted’ going to Barack Obama. Then, he suggested splitting the state’s remaining 73 delegates -- those which would be elected at a state central committee meeting in May as well as the state’s so-called superdelegates -- based on the percentage of the popular vote each gets nationwide after the last primary in June."

The RNC has unveiled a new Web site that seizes on the fact that Democratic superdelegates will end up deciding the eventual Dem nominee. “Great Scott!” the site says. “The power to choose does not belong to the Democrat voters. Find out who really chooses the Democrat nominee.”

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20-13=7  

19-13=5????

You mean 19-14.
The Stupak proposal is no different than any other calculus without a revote.  Contrived and subject to criticism because the 47 to Clinton, 36 to Obama is pretty random since the election they are based on is bogus.  Who knows how many of the "uncommited" were actaully Edwards of Dodd or Richardson supporters, so assigning them arbitrarily to Obama is as patently unfair as assigning any total to Clinton based on an unsanctioned election.
"My take on it is a lot of Senator Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting"

Its not that they shouldn't vote... it's that its a waste of time unless Hillary wins by historical margins, which is in reality, impossible.  Its time to unite as Democrats and go after McCain.

Democrats '08!!!
What he had was 90% of the AA VOTE.
I always find it amusing that the fascist party who has trampled over our democracy and our Constitution for the past 8 years is always scared of saying DemocratIC. It is the DemocratIC voters. The DemocratIC party.

The Republican leadership is built of lies, war, fear, and cronyism.
So it is official.

OBAMA WON TEXAS!!!

More delegates means a WIN!!!

Spin that one CLINTON.

oh yea, and THANK YOU MISSISSIPPI for MORE delegates for Obama!!!

And for splitting the delegates in Michigan and Florida, that seems fair.  Clinton said there was "no way" that the dems would go into the general without the delegates from Michigan or FLorida, so here ya go.  Now they can be seated.

NO REVOTE.

Rules are rules.

We know HRC likes to LIE and CHEAT, but not the rest of us.

NO REVOTE.





MORE DELEGATES.
MORE STATES.
MORE POPULAR VOTE.



Obama 08
You liberals are a hoot (quoting Bill Clinton)

While John McCain is heading for the White House, you liberals have been slinging mud and making up lies and basically have no plan to fix whatever problem there is in this country.

It will be Howard dean and the democratic party that will destroy their chances in 2008.

And it will be The Clinton's that will destroy the Democratic party in 2008!
Turnip, thanks for the catch. Yes, 14. It has been changed.
First Read crew--in light of the Mississippi and Texas results, and additional superdelegates announcing, could you please post an updated count?
Isn't Hillary the candidate who proclaimed ot Katie Couric that this whole thing would be over on Super Tuesday? Letting everyone vote wasn't important then, I suppose. I can't keep up.
How is this for a history lesson:  Those prior nomination fights going to the convention were dramatically different from this one on many levels.  Those Primary fights did not happen on live 24/7 television, not to mention we now have the internet with instant access to information and opinions.  Previous primaries were conducted almost in a vacum where not a whole lot of people (minus the political junkies that is) really paid much attention.  THIS primary has been made more public than any other election in our country's history.  That said, if Senator Clinton were to somehow get the nomination at the convention it would be seen as theft live on TV with millions more watching and commenting in the blogoshere (I hate that term but it is a recognized one).  On the flip side the Senator Clinton faithful have such blinders on that many of them actually think she is in the lead and will think they were robbed as well.  Either way the Democratic party is going to really piss off a very large portion of its base.  Gov. Dean is partly to blame since he has failed to show real leadership as the head of the DNC, after the Florida and Michigan primaries he should have stated firmly that they would not be seated at the convention, rather than waffle and say he would let the candidates and states figure it out (leaders ... well they lead and this is not leadership).  Thank you Senator Clinton, you have done what no Republican could have ever done - you have ensured that Senator McCain will win the WH in November.  

As for Senator Clinton running in 4 years.... that is not going to happen.  Democrats will (rightfully) place the blame on her and her husband for the fact that the Democrats having lost an election that they should not have been able to lose.

First read - please let me know if I have the facts wrong and please do really  study how this primary fight is alot different from previous ones.
The better campaign has earned the most delegates, not to mention the better candidate. On every tangible and logistical level, Barack Obama has outperformed Hillary Clinton. And this is coming from a John Edwards supporter.
Good point...Elizabeth Woodyard!!!

She was not worried then about everyone voting.  I don't understand why she is telling the citizens, Obama is stopping people from voting or disenfranchising them?  I can't keep up either!

I understand a Senator may be powerful or have some power, but Obama does not have the power to tell states what to do.  Besides, he is up against a tough political Clinton machine (remember).    

what?  why not vote?  there are only about 120 votes separating the candidates.   its not impossible.  improbable, maybe...but not impossible.  and then you have the problem of the simple fact that the Democratic Party has set up a system that insures that a close primary season will see the eventual nominee selected by the super-delegates, not by the popular vote.   that is what the party rules say.  that is the system in place.   its not the most votes, or the most pledged delegates gotten in the open primaries that will decide the nominee...it is those considerations coupled with the votes of the super-delegates....and that is the situation.   of course some Obama supporters would like to see it over now, but it is not over....it is still undecided...and will be until the convention...and that's the way it is.   Obama himself has said that Clinton should continue to campaign as long as she wants to...it is her right...and Obama recognizes that fact.
Michelle Zee and Elizabeth Woodyard, you are correct.  Senator Clinton really didn't care about any primaries after Feb 5 back when she just KNEW that it would be over by that time and she would be crowned.  Where was all the outrage from Senator Clinton back when the DNC (and key members of her own staff) decided to strip Florida and Michigan of their delegates for moving up the primaries?  The truth is that Senator Clinton really doesn't care about anyone but herself and her own ambition and power.   The Clinton faithful will want to burn me for such heresy but it is the truth.  Actions speak louder than words and Senator Clinton's actions have spoken volumes about her willingness to say and do anything to get power.
I thought that MSNBC stated that the poll results that purportedly stand for the proposition that Obama suffered "no harm" from the Rev. Wright comments over sampled African Americans.  If the pollsters did over-sample African Americans, it should come as no surprise that he suffered "no harm." What the polls didn't do is look at those who would have been most offended and least persuasded by his nice, but solution-less, speech on race.  In addition, the polls did not address Obama's later, but not reported, lie that he would have left the church had Rev. Wright stayed on.  This statement by Obama cannot be a truthful statement when Rev. Wright's comments were years old, Obama had been going to the church for years, Obama knew about the comments for years, Obama put him on his campaign staff, and only recently did Rev. Wright "retire." He had years to leave the church and yet makes this comment only after being (reluctantly) called out by the media and only after Hillary honestly stated that she would not have had Wright as her pastor. Hillary's Bosnia-slip was, to be sure, false, but so is this.  I guess the media has its preferences for "truthiness."  Also, I don't understand how the media keeps saying, "What if Superdelegates hand the nomination to Sen. Clinton?" or "What if Superdelegates decide this thing?"  Does the media really think the public is that stupid?  Neither Obama nor Clinton will have received enough "pledged" delegates come the convention.  The only way EITHER of them gets nominated is with Superdelegates.
tom clark, I don't think anyone is saying that the election should not go on.  The problem arises from the tone of the campaign.  Senator Clinton has been becoming more and more negative which will only hurt the party and to be honest the tone is not really helping her to make her case either.

The election should and will go on, the difference will be whether or not the party is damaged or strengthened in the process.
HP in Boston: I'm afraid your showing your racist card this morning. The fact that Hillary will win 90% of the WHITE vote in Pennsylvania is okay, then? Can't have it both ways, dear.
Total pledged delegate touching 2025 or whatever just too technical... I think it is the leader of the primaries and caucuses pledged delegate winning tally... It got to be the leader and not the 'winner'... since we are talking, choosing a leader...

Hillary burning unnecessarily... may be her atonement of past since... She has been damaged badly of her Bosnia lies and her credibility has taken a nose dive... I think her chances aren't even 5%... but then the people with money are crazily pragmatic. They must have realized by now and start to abandon her sinking ship...

Hilary's campaign flawed... she ignored caucuses and small states... mismanaged funds... and eventually lost her cool and is making a fool of herself by behaving the way she is... kicking and fussing like a child. And BTW we @ the mass media faculty of Vikram University, Ujjain [the old Greenwich] and we are 10.5 hours ahead.
Well said KP. I think there was a rush on the left to blow past the whole Wright issue. I personally was more offended by the "Typical white person" Comment that did come from Obama, not his pastor. Obama did not leave the church because he agrees (at least on some level) with Rev. Wright. Also I think the Michigan and Florida issue will become a vary big issue. Howard Dean Blew it. He issued the "Death sentence" where as the GOP took only 1/2 the delegates away. HMM Looks like the GOP is running rings around the Democratic Party again.
["My take on it is a lot of Senator Obama's supporters want to end this race because they don't want people to keep voting," Clinton told a local TV station in Billings, Mont.]
--How utterly ridiculous and knowingly not true.  One can only imagine if the roles were reversed, what the Clinton argument would by.  How typical to play politics.
You know all of this controversy is due to the fact that we have such a close Democartic race. We have two strong candidates, with strong support. If the shoe were on the other foot, and Obama were behind in the pledged delegates, you would be seeing the same thing from his campaign as you do from Clinton's. Either one of the candidates, Clinton or Obama would do anything necessary to get elected. That's what politics is all about. So let's just stop fighting and let the race play out and see who wins.
The party would do well to seat the elected delegates from Florida and Michigan to end the disenfranchisement issue ... but refuse to seat the SuperDelegates from those states as a tip of the hat to having consequences for breaking rules. Take one for the team, SuperDelegates. No one will cry that you're not in Denver (and, of course, you could run for delegate, just like anyone else).
Who says McCain is on his way to the White House????  

While I want this to be settled so that the convention can be unified, I'm really done listening to spin that says "be afraid of John McCain".  

John McCain is a thousand years old and shows little or no understanding of even the technological tools we'll need to use to solve the larger-than-life mess he helped to create.  

While I'm waiting anxiously to finish the Primary and then get into it with McCain, it's pretty clear that he's very vulnerable.  If we end this in June, we'll be very able to win the GE.


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