Delegate fight: Corzine mulling options?

Posted: Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:24 AM by Mark Murray

Per NBC’s Tom Winter, Gov. Jon Corzine, a Clinton superdelegate, just said on CNBC's Squawk Box that he reserves the right to change his vote from Hillary Clinton if she doesn't have the popular vote. He stopped short of saying that he definitely would change his vote if she lost the popular vote and he did strongly emphasize that Sen. Clinton would win the popular vote in the end.

Sen. Maria Cantwell, another Clinton super, has said similar things regarding the popular vote.

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Comments

Bill Clinton becomes angry when super delegates endorse Obama. Had he bought and paid for them?

Hillary points out that her wins have been in the states most likely to vote Democratic with either Democratic candidate. Does that make her more electable in the general election?

Gregory Peek, Birmingham, Alabama (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:31 AM)

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
I cannot beleive he would do this after Hillary pulled him out of that burning car wreck and saved his life the way she did!

twocanpete (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:32 AM)

Do these people understand the rules? This is a race for delegates, not the popular vote. I certainly hope their constiuents take note of the stupidity.

rita forte (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:33 AM)

Wishful thinking Senator.

Obama 08

Lisa, New Britain, CT CT for Obama (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:37 AM)

The message is working. Chris Matthews freudian slip when someone questioned Obama's answer to a 3am call shows how bad it is. Matthews said he would have to check the scriptures, which he quickly changed to transcript. We have a new Jesus movement, and I find it pretty scary. This campaign has turned into an adult rated video game with the truth hidden behind nasty blogs.

get real mn (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 9:39 AM)

REALITY CHECK:
OBAMA CANNOT WIN IN NOVEMBER,FOR REASONS:
1.BIGGEST ISSUE IS THE ANTI-AMERICAN PASTOR WRIGHT.
2.TIES WITH LUIS FARRAKAN AND JESSIE JACKSON.
3.TIES WITH RAZKO SWEET REAL ESTATE DEAL.
4.FLIP-FLAPPER ON NAFTA.
...AND THE LIST GOES ON.
LEFT WING LIBERAL CANNOT WIN IN NOVEMBER.

REPUBLICANS CANNOT WAIT FOR 24/7 COMMERCIALS ON TV..

REMEMBER JOHN KERRY AND THE SWIFT BOATERS???????

WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY?????
ARE THEY EVER LEARN??????

NICHOLAS FROM TEXAS (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:04 AM)

It's not nice to change your mind when it comes to The Clinton's. Just ask Bill Richardson.

Bill and Carville are probably calling Corzine to remind him that car accidents do happen twice!

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:06 AM)

The Congressional delegation from New York State, who are the largest block of Hillary super-delegates, are probably thinking the same thing as Corzine. They see the tremendous mobilization of new voters that Barack Obama has attracted, and they see several potential Democratic Party wins in both Upstate and Downstate districts this November.

As a block, they have the power to force Hillary out of the race, and begin to concentrate on vulnerable New York districts.

With Obama at the top of the ticket, and the Clintons as active campaigners for Democratic House candidates, we can win additional Congressional seats for the Democrats in New York. This is the only method that will rehabilitate the Clintons legacy.

David Kolva, MD Oswego/Syracuse NY (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:08 AM)

A reminder to the supers...with all her baggage, Clinton CANNOT win the general, so make up your mind for Obama early and often!

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:14 AM)

Huh. For all the news about Clinton folks working superdelegates, we hear about Clinton supporters now wavering. One more indication of what we all know is coming - the formal end of a campaign that in reality ended weeks ago.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:25 AM)

I think the surest sign of a sinking ship is when people start preparing their life boats and for sure NJ Governor and Maria are only among the few that are already planning an exit strategy. Sounds like the pathological liars, Captain Hillary, her beu and her pumpkin faced daughter are the only ones who will be left on board the sinking ship claiming that it is not sinking!! Of course ,throw in the odd job James Carville and a few more foolish courtiers who keep telling their captain "Full Steam Ahead"!!

anven (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:40 AM)

Clintons to all delegates, super and pledged:

You are independent and can cast your vote for whomever you wish, as long as it is Hillary Clinton.

cuvo (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:41 AM)

The Superdelegates are starting to line up! Oh look. They're all lining up behind Senator Obama! NOW what will Hillary do? Stay tuned.

Diane from Illinois (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:45 AM)

The Party is turning its back on the Clinton's with the selfish message... "What have you done for me lately?"

Without the Clinton's the GOP would be coming to the end of 28 years of power in Washington from Reagan to now.

They taught us what we could do in cooperation with a sympathetic media. They taught us the value and effectiveness of using the media to fluff your candidacy while focusing on the negatives of your opponnents.

Now... the tables have turned. The media has a new boyfriend. They are "in love" with Obama now. So the Clinton's are feeling the pressue of a media that FLUFFS thier opponent while focusing on any and every one of the slightest possible negatives.

Karma? Maybe. But someone should break the cycle and encourage the meda to just report the news, instead of trying to create it for the purpose of influencing the masses.

I think they used to call that PROPAGANDA.

John (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:48 AM)

All of this is very revealing of the D Party itself. No soul...bereft of any standards. And the "jesus" movement is towards Obama??? Scary doesn't even begin to describe it.

Matt, MN (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:48 AM)

This showing why Hillary staying in the race is diving the party. Obama raised over $40 million this month....should we be wasting money to continue this campign versus working to bear John McCain.

Dems unite to ensure victory in the fall!!

Gail, Dayton, OH (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:49 AM)

I guess that tells us "Come on Pa. You can do this" We need not only a victory but a BIG one. Lets pile up these votes for the one that can do it all.She is strong-no vacation time for her She has the answers- I wont take questions will give a speech tomorrow.Hello??Is someone working on one for him now that is justafacase??? This golden boy is so not ready.He cannt take a punch first of all. Bad week goes on vacation for a week. If Hillary had done that her bags would be at the curb when she got back.The gushers for him are not helping. The enablers are hurting him and the party and country. He got a grammy he can read with passion. This makes him a president of the most powerful country?He hits the wrong buttons 6 times to vote and you want his finger on that red button. OMG how scary is that??/

Obama-application-REJECTED! (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:53 AM)

Why is it not being reported that the nomination fight is more or less decided? One theory is that the MSM bought into the idea of unfair Hillary coverage early and are making it up to her now. The other is that they just want news to report so they are doing it sports style to maintain interest in the 31-10 football game in the 4th quarter. Obama leads 52-48 in total delegates and 53-47 in pledged delegates. Why is this reportes as razor-thin?

Jack Donohue, NY, NY (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:56 AM)

Why does it have to be a Jesus movement because people have a chance to vote for a politician they actually like on a personal level. get real mn...you're scary with your ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Bernard, Yorktown, VA (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:58 AM)

I'm from NJ and if anyone listens to "Financial Genius" Corzine they will get just what we have in NJ....high taxes, extreme budget cuts including schools and towns. All he does is spend and tax and then spend and tax. Democrats are the same wherever they are. If one of these Democrats actually wins the White House, between NJ and the federal government, I'll have to move to East Jabip just to be able to afford to live. I'm not interested in Socialism OR Marxism. This is what you will get.

Kathleen Kirkpatrick (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:59 AM)

Where are Clinton's tax returns and why won't they release them.

Larry,Napoleon IN (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 10:59 AM)

This is for Rita! I bet she was one of the people complaining that Bush should not be president because he lost the popular vote! Its always about the delegate count.

John Rogers (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:00 AM)

Hillary said that "Indiana will pick the next president" at one of her rally's two weeks ago. I think that's when she gets out, if not beforehand.
Should her internal polling show Obama reaching the margin of error in the PA race, she may elect to avoid releasing those promised tax returns which would only add to her demise and leave the race after PA. Obama might even throw her out with a narrow win in PA.

Rita (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:01 AM)

Sounds weird to me. I'd like to see HRC lose for wearing blinders while Slick Willy was dropping his pants; however, people shifting over to Obama when their states have voted for Clinton opens the door for the Obama people to continue being pestered by the Clinton people to switch over to them.

joe doe (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:03 AM)

Hey "get real mn" - for the first time in a long time many people in this country are excited to vote for someone. If that comes across as a little over-enthusiastic because we have been so desperate for someone like Obama, so be it. I would rather that than continue the abused person scenario handed out by the Clintons. The Democrats have acted like an abused person under the Clintons - you know when someone has been abused for so long, that when a great person comes along in their life, they reject them because they don't think it is real. They don't think they deserve something better because they have been told for years by the abuser that they don't. Think about it. It is the argument of many Clinton supporters - "Obama cannot be real", "Only Clinton type tactics will work" etc.

Time to throw out the abusers of the Democratic party.

MM (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:06 AM)

please nominate the most liberal candidate

bo new York (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:07 AM)

The sense of entitlement by the Clintons is turning people off. First she burned through millions, thinking the race would be over by Feb. 5th, now people who think for themselves are "traitors". I remember the scandles more clearly everyday.

Flander Annapollis (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:07 AM)

Why do people focus on popular votes when delegates are the prize? An emphasis on popular vote compel a strategy of ignoring small states and focusing on Florida, California, Texas, and New York. But look what happened to Rudy Guilliani?

John James, Gainesville, Fl (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:16 AM)

oh know, i think this will make Bill Clinton even more "exercised".

rgregory,miami, florida (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:17 AM)

The Clinon camp cannot have it both ways:

1) They say that Pledged Delegates and Super Delegates can change thier mind and join them.

2) They feel that those who change their mind and endorse Obama are disloyal.

They sound psychotic.

This is what my parents taught me. Everyone is entitled to change thier mind. You may walk out the consequences for your decision but you should be true to yourself. Who do they think they are? King and Queen Clinton in a Monarchy???

Kathy in Michigan (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:19 AM)

All this switching to a empty suit like Obama reminds one of a certain guy that hung around the beerhalls of Germany back in the 30's with his gang of brownshirts.
History has a funny way of repeating itself.

Average Joe (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:20 AM)

Almost too late for Gov.Corzine and other "supers" to get on the bandwagon. Obama is behind but closing in on Pennsylvania, which is the only big state left and he'll likely win North Carolina. From here on Hillary can't get more than 40% of the popular and delegate vote. Even if they deal on the Florida and Michigan delegates at a 40/60 ratio Obama comes out on top. Heck, she couldn't even hold on to her Texas win and lost that too. If you can add you can see that it's already over for Hillary. Seems she'll go down kicking a screaming and risk her credibility AND senate seat in the process.

SpikeAustin (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:24 AM)

Popular votes, she won the big states, he can't win, Obama likes Frosted Flakes -- just some of the crap the loser Clintons are throwing around. Let's review the rules: The winner is the one with the most delegates.

And far from jumping ship from Hillary, this Corzine thing is a cleverly designed announcement orcestrated by the Clintons. They are trying to shift the focus so that other superdelegates think it is legitimate to vote for Hillary based on the popular vote. WAKE UP! EVEN THE CLINTONS RECOGNIZE THEY CANNOT WIN, SO THEY ARE TRYING THE KITCHEN SINK APPROACH JUST LIKE THEY SAID THEY WOULD.

CRIBBLE (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:24 AM)

If Hillary does not win against Obama, the Clintons will destroy Obama so she can run again in 4 years. Remember, it is all about the CLintons.

DWR, Vast right wing USA (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:24 AM)

This is exactly why the Democratic party primary process is so ridiculous. The idea of Superdelegates who are needed to win the nomination regardless of the popular vote only furthers the perception of the Democratic party that they are elitest and don't REALLY care about the people. The Republicans don't have this system and their cantidate is chosen and has actually been able to begin running for the general election. All the swiping Obama and Clinton have been doing to one another has only ensured that neither will be viable in November. The death of the Democratic party will be in its desire to remain elitest in its ability to do what they want in spite of the will of the voters. I'm more disgusted every day. And yes, if my cantidate does not win the primary, I will be voting for McCain in November.

Chris Austin, TX (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:24 AM)

I believe the point is that Corzine, who endorsed Clinton early, is beginning to have doubts about how well Clinton can do now in the remaining primaries and possibly into the general election.

Corzine also has to worry about his reelection given how much trouble the state budget is in. As a resident of the great state of NJ (don't laugh), I know that the governor has a lot to deal with when it comes to working on the state budget and getting it close to balance.

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:28 AM)

Go Bama Go!!! The Candidate for the 21st Century.

Barack Obama is a leader who has worked in the trenches and knows what shortcomings confront the little guy. He has an ability to unite and remain above petty dirt battles.

He is what the Democratic Party so desperately needs today and in the coming years. He is what we need today and in the future of America...A LEADER who does not divide but UNITES!!!

Go Bama Go !!!

Buddy in Pa (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM)

The gushing over Obama, the Saviour, is nauseating. He is an ill prepared radical who goes to a racist church. He has zero experience and the little he has is very bad. He even supports partial birth abortion. The man is a loser.

Alice L, New York, NY (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:29 AM)

I can't believe anyone would vote for any Democrat You couldn't make this stuff up. Howard Dean and company have run the worst Primary in American history. You people want these clowns running the country. Heaven help us!!!

Bruce, Jacksonville, Fla (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:31 AM)

At this point does anything the Clintons do in their quest for power come as a surprise to anyone? This woman is ruthless in her pursuit of the presidency, nothing else matters to her, she is an obsessive compulsive with regard to winning this election. In essence, she is nothing more than a stalker, stalking the presidency like a jilted lover and if she can't have him, nobody can. If this all continues to play out as it is unfolding America will be rid of the Clintons and the Bushs once and for all and we can begin to put an end to America's days of shame.

Nuclear Midnight (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:35 AM)

"Give me Control of a Nations Currency and I care not who makes its laws" Mayer Amshel Rothschild

All of really miss the boat that Neither Hills, Obi, or Granda Pa will run our country. the Multi-National Imperialistic Corps do. The faces change, agendas don't! I challenge all of you to remeber the promises a year, 2 or 4 years from now and listen to the spin on why it didnt happen!
Obi, is so refershingly popular is because he is to new to have been currupted(much!). This nomnation race is really a distraction from the real issues with our leadership. Mainly they work for a paycheck just like us and perhaps a little good comes out as a side effect. Every candidatea has skeletons, (obi has rezko, hills has white water and the list is to long to cont). Really we need to ask ourselves how will our lives change. not who will do teh changing. Cause in the end does it matter who our leader it is if things get worse or better? to me it dont. I am voting Obi though!

2 sides of same coin, NJ (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:38 AM)

You guys just aren't that smart. Have you not noticed Hillary's surrogates have started referencing the "popular vote". Sometimes even saying they would lean toward Obama if blah blah blah.........do you need All the dots connected before you figure out that they are just working to blur/reduce the primacy of the delegate count?

Jack Donohue (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:40 AM)

Still undecided here: the arguments against Obama like 'empty suit' and Rev. Wright seem like only a low I.Q. would find merit in them. The guy is obviously smart as hell even if he is a 'politician'. HRC's blatant lies are such a turn off. McCain seems like a very angry man. Hmm, I guess I just decided.

Undecided - Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:43 AM)

If anyone has read his book, Obama admittedly has family ties to Muslim extremists. There are too many question marks about him yet and my gut keeps telling me he is phony, a wolf in sheep's clothing. Something does not feel right about him. I have TRIED to buy into him. I listened to his speeches and read everything I can. I want to trust him, but when I see how easily people go gaga over him when they meet him (like the ladies on the View) in person, it seems to me that he is like the American Idol, but so much more smug, and much less appreciative.

OTOH, Hillary's dirty laundry has been aired for years. We know her secrets, her negative sides, etc.. But we also know she does not quit, stays loyal to her husband despite public humiliation, raised an awesome young lady, is unquestionably passionate about what she believes in and has dedicated her life to serving the country. The fact that she DID stand by her man publicly - and threw a few plates at him privately - as well she should have :) and the fact that she and her daughter handled that whole humiliation with grace, tells me she will not throw in the towel or pass the buck when things get tough.

If Obama is the Dem. Candidate, I will definitely vote McCain. McCain is a PROUD American with integrity. I can live with his downsides compared to the unknown quantity of Obama. I will not vote for Obama no matter what, no matter what, no matter. My group of 200+ coworkers feel the same, except for 4 or 5 new hires who are 20-22 years old. They are young and easily impressed by handsome young men. Guess who they like?

Unfortunately we live in Florida, so we do not matter anyway.

Jax (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:51 AM)

The reality is this--if Hillary manages to claim the popular vote lead then she has at least an argument to make the superdelegates. But to suggest the superdelegates have to stick with her no matter what just doesn't make sense. If she is losing in both pledged delegates and popular vote, then everyone must face that Obama will be the nominee. Gov. Corzine is just indicating the test that many of her superdelegates will apply.

Holli, Oklahoma City, OK (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:51 AM)

Once again the Obama supporters are missing the point and trying to make something out of nothing.

Corzine didn't call the media to city hall and hold a special press conference JUST to tell the media that he reserves the right to change his mind.

During an interview, like with any interview, the reporter ASKED Corzine if he WOULD consider changing his mind. It wasn't the only question aksed of Corzine and he didn't just come out and offer up an unsolicited answer to an unasked question.

Moreover, he DID NOT SAY THAT HE WAS CHANGING HIS MIND. He simply said that he reserves the right (as do ALL SUPERDELEGATES) to change his mind, PERIOD.

SO STOP TRYING TO DO WHAT THE MEDIA DOES AND SPIN CORZINE'S COMMENT INTO SOMETHING MORE THAN IT IS JUST BECAUSE IT GIVES THE OBAMA SUPPORTERS SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.

Much a do about nothing (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:52 AM)

The "Obama can't win" line is bogus and all you have to do is look at the stark difference in Republican and Democratic turnout over these past few months. If one third of Democratic voters (very unlikely as Nov approaches and they realize victory is at hand) decide to stay home or, even more unlikely, defect and vote Republican, there will still be more than enough of a Dem turnout to win easily. There are two strains of propaganda being peddled by the MSM right now: 1) the Dem contest is still a contest when in fact, it's been over for awhile 2) short of another terrorist attack in October, the Republicans have a reasonable shot at winning anything come November.

Frank (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:53 AM)

It's all about coattails. Those up for re-election may have a price to pay if they are seen as backing the wrong candidate, contrary to the will of the people. It's going to be pretty lonely being a Clinton-supporting superdelegate come July, me thinks.

Patrick, Toronto, ON (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:53 AM)

this is NOT quite what he said. I saw the piece on CNBC. He said it would be very hard for Clinton to win or for superdelegates to go in a different direction if Clinton doesn't win the popular vote.

mike, NYC (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:55 AM)

The Republicans are salivating at the idea of another Clinton as the Democratic nominee. Should it happen, we can look forward to 24 hour daily replays of the YouTube "sniper fire" video playing on every TV channel. Add that in with a rehash of their numerous scandals --- along with a reminder of the Clintons' famous "2 for the price of one" slogan --- and we can start planning for a McCain administration.

Gregg, Milwaukee, WI (Sent Thursday, April 03, 2008 11:56 AM)

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