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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



How Clinton story flap started

Posted: Monday, April 07, 2008 12:42 PM by Domenico Montanaro

Questions have been raised today as to whether Clinton has been embellishing a story about a pregnant Ohio woman who, Clinton said, died after being denied health care because of an owed hospital bill. Some of the details of the story have been disputed. But it seems Clinton’s version of the tale does not stray from how she was told the story by a local deputy sheriff. And, in at least one stop, where she retold the story, Clinton accurately attributed it. (We went back and checked the tape from April 4th in Grand Forks, N.D. while speaking at the state Democratic Convention.)

Clinton’s campaign says they tried to vet the story to no avail because of the confidentiality of medical records. "It's not always possible to fully vet, but we try,” spokesman Mo Elleithee told the AP. “For example, medical records are confidential. In this case, we tried but weren't able to fully vet the story."

Here’s how it all began:
From NBC’s Abby Livingston
It was just another campaign stop in the race for Ohio delegates. On Feb. 28, 2008, Clinton and her entourage of staffers and press corps crowded into the Holman home in Pomeroy, Ohio. It was there, in the living room that Clinton shared not just a couch but also policy concerns with Sheriff's Deputy Bryan Holman. Unprompted, he took a deep breath and said, "I'd like to tell you a story of a young woman I know that didn't have health insurance. She worked at a little pizza place around here, and she was pregnant and worked, of course, for minimum wage. She went to the hospital, and the hospital told her that she needed a $100 up front, which she didn't have."

He continued, "Of course, didn't make a lot of money. So they had billed her a couple times for it. And after getting pregnant she went back, like I say, went back again. They told her she needed $100, which she didn't have. And so they refused to see her because of-- she had a bill and stuff from being there before. So she went to another local hospital, and they'd seen her and stopped her labor and told her to come back in two days. Well, before she got back within those two days, her baby died."

Hillary grimaced.

"So they life-flighted her to a hospital in Columbus, and within 15 days, she died," Holman added. "And they come to find out that they'd misdiagnosed what the problem was. And it was a smaller hospital and didn't have the needs to take care of what she needed at that time. But-- her family and them think that if she'd had good insurance and stuff and was taken care of at the first hospital, of course, that had the medical needs to take care of her, that her and her baby would, you know, of course, they'd still be here. That's just, you know, I think that the health insurance thing really needs to be addressed and for people, you know, who work for minimum wage and different things."
After the story, Hilary said, "Well, you know, I hear so many stories like that. People without insurance are more likely to die than people with insurance."

And the seed was sown.

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Comments

The lesson to be learned is if you can not vett the story do not make it part of your canpaign speech's. It sounds like Hillary wants to BLAME someone else for her lack of story verification.  The victim game is getting old.  The story by itself is not overly significant but with sniper gate and Columbia gate it adds another layer to both the incometence of her campaign and frankly its veracity.
It is the goal of the Clinton team to make all medical records public. That way we can all know the pain of the people of this country.
The Clintons have been staging these "spontaneous" events for the benefit of the press and public for years. They "feel your pain", blah blah blah. Such caring people. After all, they donated $10 million - to themselves!
It is valid that Hillary may not have known that this story was a fabrication when she told it.

It is valid that Hillary may not have known that her Chief Strategist was lobbying for legislation she is against

It is valid that Hillary may have just mispoke when she recalled landing under sniper fire and running to her car in Bosnia

...but after a while an objective observer may conclude that either Hillary is imcompetent in researching facts...or she just doesnt mind lying.

IF THEY COULDN'T VET THE STORY THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE USED IT!!!!  PERIOD!!!   This is CLASSIC Clintonesque, say ANYTHING, do ANYTHING to win!!!  People WAKE UP!!!!
Just one more example in a pattern of deception and lies....hard to believe that more has not been written about her role in File-gate, Travel-Gate, and yes, even Whitewater. Doesn't even take into account the illegal "cleaning" of Vince Fosters' office following his death.  In all of those, it seemed from press reports at the time her involvement was greater than her husband's ...am sure these tales will re-surface eventually...
"We tried but weren't able to fully vet the story."  So then why did you go ahead and repeat it if you weren't certain of its accuracy???  So she wasn't lying, but just passing on a lie that was told to her.  In my book, that makes her not a liar but incredibly stupid.  Oh hang on, she lied also so that means she's both a liar and incredibly stupid!
So the message from Clinton is that if you can't vet a story, then just make things up?
Just one more example in a pattern of deception and lies....hard to believe that more has not been written about her role in File-gate, Travel-Gate, and yes, even Whitewater. Doesn't even take into account the illegal "cleaning" of Vince Fosters' office following his death.  In all of those, it seemed from press reports at the time her involvement was greater than her husband's ...am sure these tales will re-surface eventually...
Are you meaning to tell me that they were not able to vet the story at all?  Of course, they could not get information from the hospital regarding her medical condition, but they easily could have verified the story with the family or other friends of hers.  It occurs to me that they did not care to find out.  It was a great story, so they ran with it.
No one has mentioned how after 9/11 Hilary was saying that Chelsea was, I believe, very close to the towers when they collapsed and shortly afterwards we were told that Chelsea was in New York City at the time but was quite a distance from the towers - just makes you wonder what is and isn't real to Hillary?
Hillary,

Just come forward, and admit you ran with this story, irresponsibly, hoping to round up support for your nomination. Apologize. Don't further humiliate yourself, and your supporters, by rationalizing,  making jokes, or blamimg others.

Obama has done it, more than once. He has been forgiven. That is what is so perplexing to your's, and McCain's supporters. You, and they, cannot fathom the heart of an Obama supporter. We know Senator Obama is not perfect. He does, however, have the character to admit when he is wrong, humble himself,  accept responsibility, and have faith in the possibilty of mercy.

Try the high road Senator. It is the only way to  success.

Pulling for Obama '08


Never trust your campaign to a backwoods country bumpkin sheriff or something like that sang to the 'night the lights went out in georgia'.
If you are unable to fully vet a story, why is she using it?  What kind of judgement is this?  It is bad judgement.  I do not know about you, but I do not want HRC answering the white house phone at 3am.  Again she has shown bad judgement and it is certainly becoming a pattern that should not be ignored.  
Are you kidding me? What is the point of trying to salvage her campaign! Come on Chuck...I know its hard to get good juicy political news, but trying to encourage people to keep giving her and her corrupt crew a chance in the White House is criminal. I know the Clintons = 4 years of scandals and great press, but you guys are Americans, too, I hope. Do you want this woman in office more than you want to protect the future of your own families? I am starting too question the medias judgement. I know you have to make a buck, but not at the American's people expense!
I think the problem is that this feeds into Clinton's dishonesty and lies.  On the one hand, I don't want to blame Clinton because she was just repeating what she was told.  On the other hand, after everything that's happened so far, I just don't know if I actually believe they even tried to verify the story, or if they just did what they do best by plugging their ears and running around waving it frantically through the air.  "We didn't know!" is basically Clinton's campaign slogan at this point.

I'm sick of having a dishonest president.  I'm sick of having to question every word and sentence that comes out of our President's mouth.  I don't see how Hillary is going to make any of this better.  I don't know what she's lying about: Bosnia, Colombia, NAFTA, health care (trying to take credit for Kennedy's SCHIPS), she even tried to claim she was against the Iraq War before Obama...  The list goes on and on.  These are only recent.

I think these other stories are far more important and cast more doubt on Hillary than this specific instance of a false anecdote.  
I don't think this is that bad. At least it is clear that she didn't completely make the story up out of thin air. It was a story told to her - and out of the thousands of stories she hears from people, it's impossible to get the truth. Besides, the hospital was never mentioned, so how did they know the story was about them?
If she could not have vetted the story, she should not have used the story.  There are too many sad and factual cases that could have been aired to support her argument.  Particularly after the Bosnia tale, using this story was a very poor decision.  
My heart and prayers go out to this woman and her family.
What a tragic lose for them. I am a breast cancer survivor and I can not get health insurance for myself tell 5 years have passed. I am now in my 4th year. I am voting for Obama, I believe in him and I trust him. Hillary has been trying for so long to get hers passed and she cannot pull it off. I heard this weekend that they did want to pass it at one point in time but they needed to change it a little and she shot them down because it was not exactly what she wanted, and that this new one was actually better for those of us who cannot afford health care. People really need to do their homework, do not choose this woman because you know the name, or she gives you the soft voice and watery eyes. I need health care but I do not trust her to give it to me. I fully put my trust in Obama. He is a man for the people.
It really doesn't matter if the press can verify every detail of this story to journalistic standards.  Anyone who doesn't think this sort of thing happens on a daily basis hasn't been paying attention to what's going on in the real world of health care.
The Clintons think EVERYONE, but they are fools.

Medical records may have been restricted, Certificates of Death are not.

The Clinton lies continue...
Ouch! Another one. Not good.

In their defense, it is right that you cannot fully vet these stories. However this is just too many for the Clinton camp.
Whoa...hold on there.... as Commander-in-Chief we certainly don't want another wrong intelligence information presented, considered and acted upon situation as we had with George Bush invading Iraq based on weapons of mass destruction and of course which Hillary supported based on erroneous information. I'm sorry, I don't want anyone with their finger on the nuclear football who acts prior to dutiful confirmation. I certainly don't expect the Commander-in-Chief to have to investigate the facts, but I do expect the Commander-in-Chief to have the right folks on staff.  I think Hillary has too many skeletons and cronies that she owes that would preclude her from having an effective organization. She seems to be good at passing the buck....but unfortunately....the buck stops here!
Would this not come under Judgement?????  The way she runs her campaign ought to be a clear indication of how she'll run the country.  You would think that before she put information out there in her speeches that she would have had all the facts checked out???Did she not learn anything from her own lies???????????
So if you don't fact check your story, then you are not lying ? That is good news for all reporters !

I think when she hangs her stump speech on this story, she should be sure about the fact ... otherwise it's just too 'convenient'.

Just another 'sniper-story' from Camp Clinton.
Well this confirms she misspoke as she does with all her endeavors!
So Hillary didn't make up the story..she didn't lie as has been accused of by Obama supporters. I'm sure many people in the room believed the Sheriff Deputy's story. People just look for any excuse to spew their hate for her.
Would this not come under Judgement?????  The way she runs her campaign ought to be a clear indication of how she'll run the country.  You would think that before she put information out there in her speeches that she would have had all the facts checked out???Did she not learn anything from her own lies???????????
I am supporting Obama, but this is not Hillary's fault.
Enough is Enough already.
...and so the journey of the story began.  At least she hadn't cast herself as the hero in this tale.  
She lied again. Why is anyone suprised. Doesnt anyone find this completely silly by now. For the people who Support her and her false statements..  What would you do if your child lied this much.  Liar Liar pants on Fire!  

Hopefully you will lose your Senate Race also
Knowing all the facts is key and paramount to a person's reputation. Apparently, Hillary needs to pay
her staff better. Maybe then, she wouldn't make speech
es that make her look like the liar she is.

The really sad part about Hillary's pizza worker
story is the bereaved family that no longer has the
ability to spend time with her or her child, but
thanks to Hillary, they get to relive the pain of
losing her all over again.

What price to pay for votes. Hillary's insensitivity makes me sick.

Obama '08
yet another embellishment of the truth. everything about hillary comes across as completely disingenuous. trying to make her more human she portrays a jekyll and hyde image
And then she replied, "Well, if you think that story is gutwrenching, let me tell you a story about the time I went to Bosnia..."
What's sad about this is that now Clinton will have everything she says weighed with extra care, and all due to the Bosnia fable.  The irony is that she labled Obama a plagiarist, and is having her own words vetted for the next big "flap".  It's the same with Penn, after she demanded that the media treat Obama as she would be for Glousbee talking to the Canadians about NAFTA, now she has to talk about things that are off-message.

This is the result of negative campaigning, and it cuts both ways.  I would have preferred if BOTH candidates could have just campaigned, and let the best one win, but the Clinton attitude wouldn't allow for a loss, and so they went negative.  Then Obama responded, because We, the voters, responded to the negativity.

I don't know if he can do it, but if Senator Obama can bring about a new form of politics, or at least one that gets away from this media driven "Gotcha" mess.  I'm all for it.
Hillary is the one who touts that she is the health care expert, yet this didn't sound the least bit fishy to her?  Plus, she goes into such vivid DETAIL when she spins these yarns.  It's not like she's vague or sketchy.  I can't believe that it would be THAT hard to verify the story with just the tiniest bit of effort, particularly since she does want us to believe that she's qualified to be the leader of the free world!

Sorry, Hillary - I'm not buying it.  Your credibility is in the tank.
[After the story, Hi[l]lary said, "Well, you know, I hear so many stories like that. People without insurance are more likely to die than people with insurance."]
--The fundemental tenents of her story seems accurate to me, so I would be more than happy to give her a pass on this 'issue'.  Clearly, though, she should probably stop this specific example.  This story seems more a function of 'the media' trying to fit her into the 'dishonesty narrative', just like they try to fit Sen. Obama into the 'inexperience narrative'.  And that is how this thread comes off on the surface to me.


Oh, and Hillary is spelled with 2 L's.
Stop making excuses for her.  She can't fully vet her stories and she can't fully vet her staff.  What kind of President and Leader will she make.  She makes her campaign speech decisions on unvetted stories.  So will she make her presidential decisions the same way?  Either way, this article doesn't sway me to the HRC camp.  What are you going to say next, Abby Livingston, that she was told by a deputy about the sniper fire raining down while she was rushed to a military vehicle?  Please!
I am an Obama supporter and think this is a lot of nothing.  It would be pretty hard to vet a story like this.  She gets a pass on this one, but on Tuzla I don't give her a pass.
Another bogus story by Billary, born of desperation, flailing about, looking for something new to say, and making stuff up.

Don't worry, Hillary will not be embarrassed, and we're only likely to hear more of this crap as the polls get worse for her in PA.  She thinks the voters are not paying attention.

Flash for the Clintons:  IT'S OVER.
So, the Clinton campaign is going to claim she's the victim of some renegade sheriff Obama planted into the living room of a secret muslim, as far as she knew, family living in ND.

Enough already Sen. Clinton, you should fund a stimulus to homeowners with your 110mil.
Clinton is an experienced campaigner -

no way she took this story on the road with first factchecking it.

Either her staff didn't check it but lied to her that they did OR she chose not to bother with the facts because the story met her needs of the moment and as every Clinton knows - lie first/impeach later.
Most reponsible people would not use a story in a presidential campaign that they could not verify.  Just another case of really bad judgement and saying anything to win.

It would seem to me that these candidates should get the permission of the families involved in these stories before reciting them on the stump.
That is what we need , a president that will beleive anything some do-do,tells her. And she calls our president dumb.....
======================================================

Look, these rumours abound in small towns and big cities alike.  They start out with fact and get changed just like the old 'telephone game'.  (I was personally known to have been killed in a car accident...by a large segment of my town of population 20,000.)

But a person wouldn't need to have access to my medical records to 'vet' the story of my death...And NEITHER would it be needed to do a basic vetting of this story. Come on.
 
=====================================================
The source of this story, Hofman, claims to know a close friend of the family (of the woman who died).  Simply vetting would include talking to the person he talked to, and the person they talked to, and a couple more rounds back.  ...And I betcha anything they'd be seeing variations already occurring in the story.

Pleeease.  

Candidates can tell any medical rumor they want based on rumor???  cuz they can't see medical records????

PLEEEEASE.
=====================================================
Wake up people! Has anyone ever wondered why the Clintons did not go back to Arkansas after his term was over? Instead she set herself up in N.Y wher the big guys are and began her carefully measured plan to run for the presidency. I was rolling in the floor laughing when she stated she was going to appoint a "Poverty Czar". If she really cared about the working poor as she says she would have moved back to Arkansas after her husband's time in office was over and worked on poverty in her home state.  
I really pray that the good people of this country in look at this closely and like me wonder about her motives. Obama in 08
[After the story, Hi[l]lary said, "Well, you know, I hear so many stories like that. People without insurance are more likely to die than people with insurance."]
--The basic tenents of her example and explanation seem to be sound, so I would not fault her for using it (in the past).  Clearly though, she should not use such example in the future.  It seems more, to me, that this is an example of 'the media' trying to fit her into the 'dishonesty narrative', just as 'they' try to fit Sen. Obama into the 'inexperienced narrative' whenever possible.


Oh and Hillary has 2 L's.
Hillary falls further behind in Gallup tracking poll, 52% Obama to 43% Clinton

 
If medical records could not be obtained via privacy  acts then Hillary should not have used the story in her stump speeches, period. It's doubtful her campaign tred to research the details further anyway. Just a lame excuse trying to get her off the hook on this one.  

This is just another example of Hillary's poor judgement. Someone tells her something and she believes it and uses it without checking the facts. Kind of makes you think of her vote on the invasion of Iraq where she failed to do her own research and depended on what she was being told by Bush and company.

We don't need this kind of poor judgement in the Whitehouse. Concede Hillary!  
Clinton Campaign and Limbo.. what do they have in common?

Answer: A common question. How low can you go?


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