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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



The Philly phallout

Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2008 9:03 AM by Domenico Montanaro

The New York Times: “Clinton did not let an opportunity pass as she repeatedly challenged Mr. Obama on his record and views -- assisted, as it turned out, by vigorous questioning by the two moderators from ABC News, Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous. The result was arguably one of Mr. Obama’s weakest debate performances. He at times appeared annoyed as he sought to answer questions about his former pastor, his reluctance to wear an American flag pin on his lapel and his association in Chicago with former members of the Weather Underground, a radical group that carried out bombings in the 1960s that were intended to incite the overthrow of the government.” 

The Washington Post adds, "The encounter, particularly in the early stages, seemed more like a grilling of Obama on a Sunday-morning talk show than a debate between the two candidates. Obama fielded most of the questions calmly, although at times he appeared to choose his words with extreme care as he faced perhaps the toughest series of questions he has encountered since taking the lead in delegates in the nomination battle."

The Los Angeles Times: "With the moderators and Clinton raising assorted questions about Obama's past for the first half of the debate, issues received relatively short shrift. Not until 50 minutes in was a policy issue -- Iraq -- asked about by the moderators. More than an hour went by before a question was asked about what Stephanopoulos called ‘the No. 1 issue on Americans' minds’ -- the economy."

The Boston Globe: “Clinton, seeking momentum in the dwindling weeks of the primary campaign, accused Obama of associating with controversial figures, including his own former preacher. Though she called Obama a ‘good man’ and said, after some prodding, that he could win the White House, Clinton said he would have many liabilities in the fall campaign.”

The Boston Globe's Canellos: "The first half of last night's debate in the august National Constitution Center in Philadelphia was a tawdry affair, as ABC news questioners called on Obama and Clinton to address a year's worth of dirty laundry, and each combatant eagerly grabbed at the chance to besmirch their rival a little more. But while some in the audience groaned, the litany of nasty questions -- about such matters as Obama's comments on the working class and Clinton's exaggerations about dangers she faced in Bosnia -- helped to flesh out a long-simmering subtext to the Clinton-Obama battle: The Clinton campaign's insinuation that Obama is more vulnerable to GOP-style attacks on his patriotism.”

The Washington Post’s Shales wasn’t too impressed with the debate. “Obama was right on the money when he complained about the campaign being bogged down in media-driven inanities and obsessiveness over any misstatement a candidate might make along the way, whether in a speech or while being eavesdropped upon by the opposition. The tactic has been to ‘take one statement and beat it to death,’ he said.” 

The New York Times writes about and fact-checks Ayres. “Mr. Obama was asked by a moderator, George Stephanopoulos of ABC News, about his relationship with Bill Ayers, a former Weather Underground leader who is now a professor at the University of Illinois at Chicago… Mr. Ayers is listed as a member of the nine-member board of the Woods Fund of Chicago, an offshoot of the Woods Charitable Fund, founded in 1941 by a prominent lawyer and telephone company executive. According to the fund’s Web site, it has focused in recent years on ‘issues that affected the area’s least advantaged, including welfare reform, affordable housing” and “tax policy as a tool in reducing poverty.’”

“Mr. Stephanopoulos and Mrs. Clinton also referred to statements by Mr. Ayers in an article in The New York Times on Sept. 11, 2001, that Mrs. Clinton said were ‘deeply hurtful to people in New York.’ ‘I don’t regret setting bombs,’ Mr. Ayers said then. ‘I feel we didn’t do enough.’ Mr. Ayers did not make the remarks after the attacks on the World Trade Center that day. The interview had been conducted earlier, in connection with a memoir that he had published, ‘Fugitive Days,’ and he was referring to his experience in the Weather Underground.” 

The New York Post leads with… “Obama used Bill Clinton against Hillary Rodham Clinton last night, blunting criticism over his own relationship with an unrepentant one-time1960s terrorist by pointing to pardons the former president gave to similar figures.”

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Comments

The moderators and McCain won the debate. I was so ashamed by ABCnews. Almost an hour into the debate before any real issues facing the voters was brought up. Clinton, in infuriating 'oh he's a good man, BUT' mode, and Obama carefully measuring each delivery, but weathering the triple-teaming pretty well. I hope the negativity backfires on all of them. Pennsylvanians, so far in the polls, aren't falling for it. God bless them.
Stephanopolus should be ashamed of himself, as should Charlie Gibson.  Asking Obama why he doesn't wear a lapel pin?  Give me a break!  His flag is in his heart-where mine is as well.  He doesn't need to drap it all over everything he wears just to pander to others who do just that.
Obama did very well, considering what turned out to be a right-wing debate among two biased moderators and an opponent vying for position on McCain's ticket. I loved Obama's answers about Ayers; they were zingers!

Of one thing I am certain; if you were a voter who wanted to know where both candidates stood on issues, you are still in the dark. Wednesday's so-called debate was nothing more than bad reality television.
I was amazed at how abc moderators couldn't even carmourflage their obvious bias against Obama and their strategy to fight Hillary's battles to prove they are more loyal than Richardson.They could not even bring themselves to asking the Bosnia question resorting to using a viewer so as to soften the blow.Unlike what they were doing with Obama,following up with questions after any of his explanations,they let hillary's apology of the sniper lies go unchallenged.
If they were hoping for a big kill with People of PA it has backfired coz that is not what we bargained for we have real issues that we needed answers to not all this tabloid material,we have the national enquiry taking care of this
McCain looks soooo much better after watching the Obama debate last night! Obama does not like to be actually questioned on what he says or does...it angers him and makes him sweat...I dont blame him since it is impossible to defend Rev Wright and his other buddies.
This is why the networks are on the decline. ABC hosted a debate that failed to advance the debate. The bias exhibited last night was a disgrace. Shame on ABC. We have voted in the recent past on wedge issues. As a result we have been complicit in the situation we find ourselves in. The type of politics played out last night has resulted in a less safe America, a five year war in the middle of Arabia and the drum beat for another war, an economy in shambles, suffering from everything from a redistribution of wealth, no health care plan, failing school systems and infrastructures, a housing crises and job losses. Yet ABC asks questions about ministers, flags and who the candidates know. Maybe they like the status quo. In fact doesn't political division fuel their industry. In fact the media counts on it. Individuals have made fortunes and I'm not just talking about Rush Limbaugh and FOX as shown by ABC's behavior last night.
However, if you going to act like a tabloid at least keep it equitable. That's what a debate is. They should have grilled Senator Clinton for 40 minutes, interrupting her, tag teaming her on issues like Bosnia or the fact that 6 out of 10 Americans don't trust her. They might have asked her "how can you lead when 6 out of 10 Americans think you aren't truthful" or "how can you bring people together when your negatives are higher than your positives" or how can you win when most Americans feel you are not electable" or "why should we believe you have judgement when you supported Goldwater, voted for the war in Iraq and recently a similar resolution for Iran"? Why didn't George ask Senator Clinton about her judgement and experience and truthfulness on trade issues like NAFTA and the Colombian trade deal. Why has she yet to fire Mr. Penn. Why did they not ask her about her experience and management style exhibited during failed campaign strategy and if this would be the model for her presidency. Why did the not ask about her disdain for working class people and more traditional women as exhibited by her previous comments.
It's too bad the commentators didn't think the debate should be about the real issues facing this country.  The National Enquirer would have done a better job.  
there is at least the appearence of partiality, when the moderators include Stephanopoulos, who served in the Clinton White House for years.  He should not have been allowed as a moderator.  As to Ayers, is someone going to be accountable  for all and any dirty  laundry  of any one who serves with in board of trustees of charitable organizations?  This is  guilt by association, and smacks at least of macCarthyism.  With the same logic we should demand resignations or crucify any public figure who served on  boards of trustees with anyone who gets convicted or is accused of any crime.
it all comes down to experience, but here is a thought...every dreamer (Obama) needs an experienced fighter (Clinton), who knows about the dirty politics of D.C. (last time i checked there are more dirty ones) on their side; let's remember America, we have a very short attention span and when Pres. Obama starts stuttering among the BIG DOGS you gonna wish the Bull Dog (Clinton) was there to fight back!!  Let's realize their symbiotic relationship and make them come together.  Now that would really bother the McCain camp!!
The difference between the two candidates: Hillary (and the Moderators to some degree) kept trying to keep the personal attacks going. If anyone recalls, when Senator Obama was asked about the Bosnia incident (the only Clinton question), he could have layed into her dishonesty trait. Instead, he moved the topic in a different direction. He wanted to focus on the important topics so undecided Americans could make a decision based how each candidates' stance on various policies fit theirs. He engages people. Not turns them away. George S. using questions from Hannity and another right wing person. Still holding the Clinton flag, huh Georgie?
I wish Mr. Stephanopoulos had refused to moderate that debate. He was Bill Clinton's best campaign advisor, and stiil a friend of the Clinton family. And, he is only human. You cannot expect him to be somewhat leaning toward a friend. He is, again, only human. Thus, Obama was gang up on, albeit unintentionally. I pray that the people of the US and especially Pennsylvania see this, and rise up to  defend Mr. Obama.
Hillary Clinton should never refer to Rev Wright and should not say she would have left the church. She said you cant pick your family but you can pick your pastor. Wrong, you can pick your husband.A lot of people have stayed in relationships gone bad and she of all people should understand that.
This is the first presidential race that I have followed this closely since the late 1960's. I have learned that the press may be the most despicable part of this whole thing. Keep it up guys. Eventually no one will run for anything and then what will you have to do. And by the way would someone let me know where to get the news (read objective facts). I am capable of interpreting it myself.
The debate was a travesty.  No real issues until the end when we were all too annoyed to pay attention any more.  If I had any respect for Hillary Clinton, it went out the window last night.  She has no business running for President if all she can do is attack anyone who gets in her way.  Insofar as the moderators.......YUCK!  Don't you guys ever think of important issues to talk about?
Clinton-Obama Debate: ABC Decides Top Issues Facing Americans Are Gaffes, Flag Pins and '60s Radicals

By Greg Mitchell

Published: April 16, 2008 10:15 PM ET

NEW YORK In perhaps the most embarrassing performance by the media in a major presidential debate in years, ABC News hosts Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous focused mainly on trivial issues as Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama faced off in Philadelphia.

Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the health care and mortgage crises, the overall state of the economy and dozens of other pressing issues had to wait for their few moments in the sun as Obama was pressed to explain his recent "bitter" gaffe and relationship with Rev. Wright (seemingly a dead issue) and not wearing a flag pin while Clinton had to answer again for her Bosnia trip exaggerations.

Then it was back to Obama to defend his slim association with a former '60s radical -- a question that came out of rightwing talk radio and Sean Hannity on TV, but delivered by former Bill Clinton aide Stephanopolous. This approach led to a claim that Clinton's husband pardoned two other '60s radicals. And so on.

As an American citizen, my take on the flag pin is this....for the last EIGHT years, we've been told by Bush that we need to "bring it on"....throw a bumper sticker on our cars, a lapel pin on our shirt and take our kids to Disneyland...meanwhile, while we thought we were on some fun rides....people have lost their homes, people have lost their jobs, soldiers have fought bravely and lost their lives. I love America enough not to sell it out.

**A proud Army wife**
Why didn't Charlie and George come out from the onset and declare that they are in Hillary's camp? After watching for the first hour or so, I was so flabbergasted I had to switch it off. Why did the Directors and Producers of the debate find it necessary to show us Princess Chelsea not once but many times during that debate. And, Hillary show have done the honorable thing and dissuade the "moderators"  and not pounce on everything like a vulture.    
Golly gee, what a bunch of tough questions!  Flag pins?  Weather Underground?  Good work adressing the Kook Brigade's number one concerns and leaving real, thinking people who want to know about actual issues in the lurch.

"McCain looks soooo much better after watching the Obama debate last night! Obama does not like to be actually questioned on what he says or does...it angers him and makes him sweat...I dont blame him since it is impossible to defend Rev Wright and his other buddies."

I'd be mad if someone asked me about Weather Underground and grilled me about personal issues that have already been done-to-death in the media and have nothing to do with real policies for helping a struggling America.

I'd be mad as hell!!
Obama mentioned during the debate that although Hillary has so much experience, much of her experience has taught her that this type of debate is what politics is about.  She is a fighter and unfortunately she has learned that fighting is more important than truth or integrity or negotiating.  If she were more of a negotiater than a fighter, I think that she would have gotten the health care passed during her husband's term. But maybe it had to be her way or no way at that time, so only fighting and no negotiating means no healthcare plan.  She learned tabloid politics because she was assaulted with so much of them, so she thinks this is what must be done.
Aiding and Abetting is a crime...this is what Hillary did with those moderators. It was a "death by a thousand cuts" and every chance Hillary got she teamed up with those ABC losers for another slice at Obama...and she wonders why her credibility rating is taking a nose dive!

One thing for sure, I will never watch another ABC tv show, I lost all respect for Charlie Gibson and George Stupidopolis is a Clinton hire.  This was a complete hit job against Obama.  Im all for vetting but last night was totally ridiculous.  ABC should be shamed and Hillary is a "mad" woman. All we, the voters, wanted to hear was policies, policies and what we got was conservative right wing bull crap. I won't be surprised if the super delegates came out of the closet for Obama to end this "shock & awe" attempt to destroy the democratic race.

What a waste...so sad...
I am a Clinton supporter but I have to say i was embarrassed by the debate last night. The only person looking like a grown up on that stage was Senator Obama, who handled his inquisition with some dignity. He earned my respect.
Last night a debate was preposterous. Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous deserved an award for the worst broadcaster ever. The result was arguably one of Mr. Obama’s weakest debate performances thanks to Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous. I know Mrs. Clinton is experience, and she want to be Commander and Chief, but a debate as poorly organize as this one is not helping her case but bringing her down. She could have shined last night, but she went negative instead with her supporter Charles Gibson and George Stephanopolous. I am sorry Mrs. Clinton I was one of your favorite supporter, but last night prove to me that you will try to win at all cost. Here’s what change my mind:  last night when they ask Mr. Obama about your Bosnia blunder he choose to remain positive, and forgive you about your mistake, he even stand up for you by blaming the media. I know you a politician at list be one with dignity. Now I am undecided and I hope that the Democratic parties have a solution about all that.
                   Sincerely C.B        
I am a steadfast fan of GeorgeS because I have always perceived him to be politically insightful and even handed. What a shame that the real GeorgeS didn't show up last night.  

The debate was such a waste of time.  Real ssues took  a back seat to petty and inconsequential associations and candidates' preferences to accessorize or not.. I mean who really cares about a flag pin??  It will take my turning off "This Week" for awhile to actually hear what he has to say again.

Good Night George.
This debate just proves that Clinton and Obama are not suted for president. McCain is the only one with enough common sence and experence to be president.
Whitewater, Colombian ties with money, unsavory connections if you look at the Clinton's taxes, Bill's ties to govt Hillary has disapproved of, Bill's support of Nafta, H saying of Southern democrats "screw 'em," - lots for George & Charlie to bring up with which to attack Hillary, but they didn't.  Maybe because Obama's campaign is not pushing all of these issues that reflect badly on Hillary.
Obama's campaign is concerned about the pervasive influence of lobbyist in Washington.  Clinton's did not deal with this issue last time they were in the Whitehouse.  And Hillary's rigid style meant she couldn't get healthcare reform passed last time.  Now we hear her rigid position re Iraq pull-out where she won't be swayed by facts to approach a pull-out more thoughtfully, nor will she be realistic about her rigid tax position, all the while racking up more expenses on the budget e.g. healthcare, law enforcement to cities.
Hillary will do whatever it takes to win.  So if you accept this & vote for her, don't be disguested by the state of political campaigns.
The democrats are watching their worst fears being played out.  As an Obama supporter, I used to feel Clinton staying the race could be good for him, but its clear now she's willing to drive this nomination process right into the ditch...and the media seem happy to follow suit.  The "Tonya Harding strategy" right before our eyes.  I feel both these candidates are infinity better than a 3rd Bush presidency, but I'm afraid that wont matter...you have Hillary to blame for that.  Anyone with a brain had to be disgusted by the performance ABC gave in that debate, but I'm sure Hillary was quite pleased about the media's lynch mob mentality.  Its a real shame.


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