Giuliani takes communion anyway

Posted: Saturday, April 19, 2008 2:57 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC’s John Baiata
Reuters reports: "Twice-divorced former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani took Communion at a Mass celebrated by Pope Benedict on Saturday, breaching rules that bar those who remarry outside the Church from doing so. As he left New York's St. Patrick's Cathedral with his third wife, Judith, the failed presidential candidate confirmed to Reuters that he took Communion from a priest. Asked if he was uncomfortable with having broken the Church ban on the divorced and remarried taking Communion, Giuliani said, ‘No.’”

You'll remember that several high-level U.S. clergy have said publicly that pro-choice politicians who are Catholic should be denied communion, and two of them -- Archbishop Raymond Burke of St. Louis and Bishop Michael Sheridan of Colorado Springs -- have singled out Giuliani.

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Comments

That was wrong Rudy, and you know it.

Ashly Toms, NYC (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:02 PM)

Watch how the Pope is treated by Bush. That's the same way Obama will treat Wright.

MilesToGo (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:03 PM)

People are saying the Church is losing its power and authority. The Church was here before this country was born, and will be here long after the country is gone. Liberals can't seem to figure that fact out and continue to think that they themselves are more important then any church. They are wrong.

F. Lee Jones, Bethesda, Mayrland (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:06 PM)

How pathetic! Why don't you report on the HATE mongers like Rev White & his church, rather than intruding on the most sacred choices of a Catholic..PATHETIC!

B Murphy, NY, NY (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:08 PM)

How many politicians who voted for the Iraq war and support the death penalty were denied or took communion. Inquiring minds want to know. There seems to be some cherry picking going on as to which church tenents count against political violators and which don't.

nuanced (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:13 PM)

WHO CARES! Rudy will still go to heaven. lol lol

HP Boston (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:24 PM)

The Catholics grant communion, anyway.

KT, Tennessee (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:29 PM)

"Watch how the Pope is treated by Bush. That's the same way Obama will treat Wright." --MilesToGo

do you mean give him lip service while violating all of the church teachings?

Who's Sane (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:32 PM)

B Murphy, you're a dolt.

Sam, Muncie, Ind. (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:35 PM)

Giuliani's first marriage was annulled, and it's possible, although not known publicly, that his second one has been, which would render any discussion of his marital status and communion moot. Any controversy regarding his political stances and eligibility for communion would be another matter, but puts him in the same category as a number of prominent Catholic politicians, including Nancy Pelosi, Christopher Dodd, Joe Biden, and Edward Kennedy. Pelosi and Dodd publicly received communion at the papal mass in Washington, D.C. earlier this week, while Kennedy stayed seated and did not. It's also possible for dispensations of canon law to be granted in certain instances, and possible it's just a matter of him following the dictates of his own conscience and accepting responsibility for his own choices. Pope Benedict XVI will be praying at the Ground Zero site tomorrow, which anticipates that at some point during his visit to New York City he is meeting Giuliani, and possibly even expressing esteem for his efforts following 9/11.

K. R., Florida (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:38 PM)

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
When the leader of group whose employees have systematically abused children wants to confuse the issue by blaming Americans in general for those horrible crimes it then should come as no surprise that a cheater like Giuliani would be welcome by that same group.

twocanpete (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:42 PM)

This is bull---. Even the Catholic church is bigoted and exclusionist. You have to follow my ways and my values to be a good Christian and a Catholic, huh? No thanks.
First Read is my religion.....

Free Man (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:50 PM)

Pro-choice is rather irrelevant here. Mayor Guiliani is divorced and remarried three times. None of his marriages were annulled. Why is he taking communion in an apostate state? That is his call, I suppose.
Personally, I wouldn't risk it.

It is the divorces that matter (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:57 PM)

Yeah and where's the Poll on how many really go the church every Sunday...This article sucks like ABC...

Tell the person who just had Jesus Christ in their life what forgiveness really is...hypoctrics..and shame on you...

Truth for Our Times (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:58 PM)

Rudy should not have taken communion. He broke the rules and he knew it was wrong.

drk in TN (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:58 PM)

First Read,

Again, my post was not posted. PLEASE POST THIS. THIS IS SUPPOSED TO BE A PUBLIC FORUM.

My question to you Chuck,

During the recent "debate" HRC declared her new "umbrella" foreign policy, which is BY FAR more to the right than McCain or even George Bush. And quite frankly, I find it scary!

WHy is it, that with the exception of Keith Olbermann, and Rachel Maddow, who were quite concerned about this, that no one has been questioning her about this?

Today, Tim Russert and you CHuck, said that while yes, it IS a major issue, the media likes to focus on "shiny objects". I guess First REad thinks that Guliani and his communion, and Chelsea and her gay walk is more important than foreign policy.

Maybe I'm just "out of touch"

Jessica (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:03 PM)

As Catholic, I will say let it be judged by God. Even the people who have sins sometimes ask for forgiveness. Guliani as a Catholic feel the same way as others to receive communion on this special day on his life regardless what you or I see as a sin. Let who has ever not commited sin to speak and judge. Lets remember the Pope visit was to ask for forgiveness for what the 3% of catholic priest did and have a dialogue that will make it not to happen again. Lets unite under one Church of ours and forgive others as we forgive who forgive us.

KB, Kansas City, Kansas (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:20 PM)

Since most areso concern about what Rev Wright said,lets be fair. What about the Catholic priest molesting little boys.Talk about hypocrits hmmmmmm.

sharon taylors sc (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 4:22 PM)

Unfortunately, this action just underlines the fact that US politicians seem to think they are above the rules that everyone else should live by: Giuliani, Spitzer, Dubya Bush and regretably Bill Clinton. I understand why the populace is disenchanted. The question is: how can a humble person vie for an exalted position??

PMC, Rochester, NY (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:00 PM)

It is sad that only one person posting to date (@4:00pm)could manage a post relevant to the item. RUDY TOOK COMMUNION WITH THE POPE "IN THE HOUSE". Disrespectful at best.

kel (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:01 PM)

So, church law doesn't count, should not be
respected? Not surprising from a party whose
respect for the U.S. Constitution is question-
able, at best.

Larry, Chicago, IL (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:22 PM)

Taking communion because you are married for the third time- tradgedy. The senseles rape and abuse of thousands of children at the hand of that same church's leaders while the "followers" turn a blind eye- not a tradgedy. Where are the priorities?

Andrew, Clarksville, TN (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:50 PM)

Nuanced,
The difference is those votes aren't grounds for denying a communicant. There can be reasonable debate on the issues of the death penalty and waging war, but certain issues like abortion and euthanasia are intrinsic evils. But his marriage situation alone, places him in state that would be unsuitable for the reception of the Eucharist.
Nuanced, don't misrepresent Church Teachings to furthr your political agenda.

Thomas, Philadelphia PA (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:56 PM)

Thomas, Philadelphia PA (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:58 PM)

Asked if he was uncomfortable with having broken the Church ban on the divorced and remarried taking Communion, Giuliani said, ‘No.’”

Now, that's elitism.....above the rules of the Church...and pushing for VP..

Campdog (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:21 PM)

Nobody, and I mean nobody, should be able to decide who can and can't take communion.

Charles (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:23 PM)

So What!!!
Come unto Christ... he came to save all, even murders and thieves will make it to heaven ..warning to self righteous..
Communion is not for the giver but for all that receiveth HIM
God gave man the seventh day...not the other way around..
Read Mat. 5:44 and rest your heart from self...

Truth for Our Times (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:28 PM)

Rudy,
I am no fan of yours at all. However, being baptized a
Catholic, I left the church because of its hypocrisy. I guarantee you anyone on this blog who has said what you did in taking communion was wrong has done things 10 times worse than you. So, go boy, go! Only G-d has the right to judge. Ain't no one on this earth who has the right to judge you before G-d. We are facing
greater problems in this world than whether or not you take communion. Become a democrat and get away from these nuts.

Ray ,Mountain View, Ca (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:51 PM)

K. R., Florida (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 6:52 PM)

The Catholic church is becoming the preferred Great Satan of the Republican party, so why wouldn't a rightwing-wackjob hypocrite take communion?

Ryan, Kalispell, Montana (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:11 PM)

So some pedophile prist gave Rudy communion GOOD THING THE OTHER SINNERS IN THE CROWD DID NOT PARTAKE

nickk (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:12 PM)

The Catholic church is becoming the preferred Great Satan of the Republican party, so why wouldn't a rightwing-wackjob hypocrite take communion?

Ryan, Kalispell, Montana (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:12 PM)

F. Lee Jones, Bethesda, Mayrland (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:06 PM)
Which church is that? The Roman Catholic, Church of England, or those that were persecuted and founded Plymouth?

B Murphy, NY, NY (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 3:08 PM)
Little touchy aren't we!

---------------------
Looks to me that a serious and open discussion on religion in America should take place. 1.)You need to understand that I was raised Evangelical, but not socially conservative - much closer to HHH.
2.) It would never have been acceptable to take communion at non-denomination or once the (canon law) rules were violated.

Having said that means that Rudi is not deeply contacted to the Roman Catholic church. Do not expect to see his name on McCain's shortlist for VP.

OBwan, IN (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:17 PM)

B Murphy - you brought up one of my favorite topics: Reverend Wright and the Catolic church - Obama is considered bad by some since he has not disavowed his church or Reverend Wright in the aftermath of the reverend's anti-american sermons, but Catholic politicians who have not disavowed the Catholic church or its hierarchy for the sexual abuse by its priests of children are not seen at all as being bad by virtually anyone. My belief in Jesus tells me that the Catholic politicians are exercising Christ's will by forgiving the church and those priests, as is Obama with the Reverend Wright and his church. Therefore, Obama is doing the good and gracious thing by forgiving his pastor.

Jim, Santa Cruz (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:19 PM)

I'm not into people worship. I don't worship Mary, the Pope, bishops, archbishops, or churches. The first commandment forbids idolatry. While the conservatives rip out half the pages of the bible then teach/impose it and live just half of even that, I will continue to do what the spirit leads me and in good conscious.

Unmoved (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:20 PM)

Pre disclaimer: I'm a protestant and opposed to the war.
It's good that some people have suggestions of what rules should be included in the list of rules, however things like "death penalty" and "war" are absolutely subjective.

What Guliani did and this is the point, he knowingly and willingly broke a rule that the Church has long held. If he doesn't like the rules, he should leave the Catholic Church and be a protestant like me. To me he seems more like a poser dragging the name of God in the mud in order to look good (VP aspirations, perhaps?) and get in the news.
Jesus told the holders of the law "let he who is without sin cast the first stone," and he told the lady, "now stop sinning."
I won't cast stones at Guliani, but he's got responsibility too, to turn away from his sin.
Otherwise he's spitting both in the Pope's face and in God's face.

Good article.

wrongnow (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:20 PM)

The comparison to how Obama would treat Wright to how Bush treats the Pope is just absurd. Obama would treat the Pope with all the same respect Bush does because that is the respect that the papacy deserves. Recall that Bush is not a Catholic, nor is McCain, nor do any of the candidates reflect all of the beliefs of the Church.

Cody Johns, Austin, Texas (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:31 PM)

Hey give Rudy abreak will ya. I do not care what religion believe in..what is it do we all have in common...we all want to happy and healthy do we not. Religion is just a vehicle to help each of our own spirituality. The best defination of spirituality I can give you is basically be a good person. No one religion has a monopoly on all the answers to our day to day life problems. They like to think that they do but they don't. Each individual must take pride what each believe and make that each do not become a slave / prisoner to any one religion belief. In otherword each must develop their own philosophy to do what is right and have faith in being a good person.

Steve P., Washington

Steven Penney, DuPont, Washington (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 7:43 PM)

THE BE BEST PART OF THE 2008 ELECTION WAS THE AMERICAN DESICION TO NOT QUESTION MITT ROMNEY ABOUT HIS CHURCH AND ITS BELIEFS. BECAUSE, UNLESS SOMEONE RELIGIOUS DOCTRINES CALL FOR VIOLENCE OR BREAKING THE LAW, IT SHOULD OFF LIMITS WHERE POLITICS IS CONCERNED. NO REV. WRIGHT, NO BLACK THEOLOGY AND NO DISCUSSION OF WHETHER A POLITICIAN CAN OR SHOULD RECIEVE COMMUNION. NO RELIGIOUS TEST FOR OFFICE IN AMERICA.

RANDALL (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 8:51 PM)

"Nuanced,
The difference is those votes aren't grounds for denying a communicant." --Thomas, Philadelphia PA

Thomas, thank you for your comments. I agree with you on not denying communion. I was being facetious in order to point out the hypocrisy of church priests and bishops who push a political agenda by saying they will deny communion to Catholic politicians who don't put the church's views above their country and constituents as in the case of when John Kerry was running.

A long time ago I had 9 years of Catholic school. Maybe things have changed since then but the nuns marched us to church every friday for mass and the priests let anyone take communion who wanted without first giving them a doctrine purity test.

nuanced (Sent Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:02 PM)

Hey, please tell me in this story where Mr. Guiliani solicited the press to follow him to mass and report on his private religious worship activities? He was just another sinner like all the rest of us, going to the church of his choice. What dealings he has with the Catholic church is no business of anyone but Mr. Guiliani. So please, all the Bible-thumpers, Catholic haters, and self-imposed Canon lawyers out there, take the "board" out of your own eye before before criticising the "splinter" in someone else's. (I think someone by the name of Jesus may have said that before....)

Humble & Catholic, Houston, Tx (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 7:51 AM)

Oy.

What Giuliani did—and there isn't any question about his being barred from communion, unless he and his (third, civilly-married, non-catholic) wife are living in celibate chasteness together, which given her public comments about his virility seems unlikely—was a violation of several Canons of the 1983 Code, which is the law of the Catholic church. It's also, under a strict conservative reading of canon law, considered sacrilege and profanation of the host, to the point that the priest who knowingly administered communion to someone who was well-known enough to not be in a state of grace to cause scandal to the congregation may himself be considered to be in a state of grave sin because he did so.

The current Pope is well known for his strict interpretation of church laws, and as someone who self-identifies as a former seminarian, Giuliani presumably knows what they are. He certainly knows about this one, since a rash of articles came out discussing the Pope's recent refusal to consider communion for remarried divorced Catholics and what it meant for his then-frontrunning presidential campaign.

He knew he was ineligible, and he publicly took communion that was consecrated by a man who declared him ineligible. That's not just profoundly wrong, it's seriously tacky.

julia (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:08 AM)

Rudy wanted to be the first Politician to make Roman Catholic Holy Communion, a Political Act. Blessed are the.....Politicians?....for they shall be known as the $#@%*&'s of God.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 9:15 AM)

Its absolutley unbelievable that anyonw would defend the blatan hypocrisy of Rudy Guiliani taking communion, and few if any church leaders having anything to say about it. give me a break. I am reading conspiracy theories like maybe rudy has a secret annullment and all kinds of craziness.

Here are Rudy defenders giving him all kinds of benefits of the doubt, yet on any other issue, they are the first ones to condemn without knowing any facts. what a joke.

Henry Hammer (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 10:00 AM)

Ah I see proof from the posts above....

RELIGION THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL!

HP Boston (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 11:32 AM)

Whats WRONG is an Elitist religion!

Think New Testament folks!

Christ invited everyone that would follow him to his table.

This is a problem that the Catholic church faces, especially now with Pope Benedict. He has made statements discounting other faiths.

From my reading of the Bible & Christ's parables I think he'd frown on this. Christ chastised the Pharisees for their strict rules interpretation that focused on the 'wrote' & not on acceptance & servanthood.

Only God will judge.

Tim, Peoria, IL (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 12:51 PM)

Pope excommunicates Giuliani, see exclusive report on Pope's "Dear Rudy" letter at http://michaeljamesh.blogspot.com/2008/04/dear-rudy.html

Michael H, New Jersey (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 1:10 PM)

And on the tail for the Communion-gate, why have we heard all this stuff about Wright, and not John McCain's active recruitment for Rev. Haggy's endorsment, who is so anti-Catholic, he might as well be heading Klan rallies.

Don, La Jolla, CA (Sent Sunday, April 20, 2008 3:04 PM)

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