ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



First thoughts: Contest No. 45

Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:20 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** Contest No. 45: Six weeks, a political eternity given the cycle’s front-loaded calendar, have passed since the last Democratic contest -- the Mississippi primary -- which Obama won, 61%-37%. And as we’ve said before, so much (most of it process) has happened in between: Geraldine Ferraro’s comments, the Wright controversy, Obama’s speech on race, Bosnia sniper fire, the Clintons’ tax records, Mark Penn’s ouster, Bittergate, and the debate over the debate. Well, the wait for another Clinton-Obama contest finally ends today as Pennsylvania voters head to the polls, which opened at 7:00 am ET and close 8:00 pm ET. There are 158 pledged delegates at stake.

*** Keys to the Keystone battle: There seem to be four possible outcomes to tonight’s contest, and two of them will need little spin because the media won't need the "help" to interpret their meaning: 1) a double-digit Clinton victory in which she beats Obama by a greater margin than she beat him in Ohio; and 2) an outright Obama victory. But here are outcomes that will force the campaigns to go into spin overdrive: 3) a Clinton victory by less than five points, which would give Obama an opening to declare "victory" of sorts and create renewed pressure on Clinton on the future of her campaign; and 4) a Clinton victory by more than five but less than 10, which is the most likely result if some of the better polls are to be believed. This would be considered a solid victory, but would it be big enough to fundamentally change the dynamics of the race? Could Clinton claim Obama was losing ground if he performed better in Pennsylvania than he did in Ohio? This is why Axelrod and his team and Wolfson and his team will earn their money today. The Clinton campaign is desperately trying to ratchet back expectations. Early on, Rendell and his folks were predicting an easy victory. Those predictions, however, are what created this expectations-game problem for Clinton today. She's now in a position where only a blowout is going to give her the momentum she needs to make folks believe she still has a shot at the nomination.

*** Where we stand: Obama leads in pledged delegates (1417 to 1251), overall delegates (1655 to 1513), the popular vote (13.4 million to 12.7 million), and total number of contests won (29 to 14). Note: We’re not including Texas in this last total, given that Clinton won the primary but Obama won the caucus and netted the most delegates. Here are some other numbers to chew on: the Quinnipiac poll taken around the time of the Mississippi primary had Clinton up by 12 (53%-41%), the RealClear average has Clinton leading by six points (49%-43.1%), the now-famous Obama memo that Bloomberg News received after Feb. 5 projected Clinton to win the state by five (52%-47%), and assuming a turnout of 2 million, a 55%-45% Clinton victory would cut Obama’s lead in the popular vote from 700,000 to 500,000.

*** The pledged delegate game is essentially over: No matter tonight's popular vote result, the delegate count isn't likely to move in either direction substantially. Why? The disproportionate number of delegates awarded in areas Obama is likely to do well could very well mean that Clinton's percentage point net victory will be greater than the number of delegates she nets. Look no further than Ohio, where she won by 10 points but netted just seven delegates. A similar phenomenon is likely tonight. While neither campaign can get to 2,025 without superdelegates, after tonight, it will be virtually assured that Clinton cannot catch Obama for the pledged delegate lead. In fact, there's a strong case to be made that if Clinton nets fewer than 10 delegates, she may not even be able to get his pledged delegate lead below 100 by June 3.

*** The popularity contest: That brings us to the popular vote... According to our turnout estimates (based on past results and talks with the campaigns and also assuming a bump), it is unlikely that Clinton will completely erase Obama’s lead in the popular vote without factoring in Florida and Michigan. Here's a fairly rosy scenario for Clinton, which assumes big wins in her states and somewhat narrow wins for Obama in his states of the contests that remain.

 

Total Votes

Clinton

Obama

Projection

PA

2,000,000

1,100,000

900,000

55%-45%

NC

1,500,000

675,000

825,000

45%-55%

IN

900,000

460,000

440,000

51%-49%

WV

400,000

240,000

160,000

60%-40%

KY

500,000

300,000

200,000

60%-40%

OR

600,000

270,000

330,000

45%-55%

SD

100,000

45,000

55,000

45%-55%

MT

125,000

56,250

68,750

45%-55%

TOTAL

 

3,146,250

2,978,750

 

So that projection gives Clinton a net gain of 167,500 popular votes for the rest of the remaining primaries -- if everything plays out by the projections above. Obviously, we encourage folks to play around with these numbers themselves. So Team Clinton couldn't get there with also adding Florida; they'd need Michigan, too... and maybe even try and count total Puerto Rico votes -- which, turnout-wise could look like Oregon, but in reverse. So MAYBE she could net another 60,000 votes out of Puerto Rico. Of course, if Clinton gets a big win out of Pennsylvania, she might be able to narrow the gap in places like North Carolina and Oregon and then suddenly her net popular vote take could increase. To have ANY chance of selling legitimacy to this popular vote game, she'll need to cut his lead without the use of Michigan. Maybe, she can include Florida; there are a chunk of superdelegates who would give her that, but most will not give her Michigan. So she needs to more than double the projected popular vote totals we've come up with to even start the popular vote conversation.

*** Some ‘splaining to do? No matter tonight’s result, keep this in mind: Obama spent an enormous amount of money on TV -- and we mean ENORMOUS. He spent so much that he will have a very hard time explaining a double-digit defeat, despite what the campaign might say. Sure, they can claim he started out more than 20 points behind in some polls. But to lose by more than 200,000 votes after all the money he spent would be embarrassing and could rightfully get superdelegates nervous about his durability. Also, this is the first vote since Rev. Wright and the "bitter" comments, and if he simply performs as well or a tad bit better among white voters than he did in Ohio, the campaign can argue to supers that he wasn't damaged with these voters for the long term. But if his numbers are worse than Ohio (he lost by 10 points) then, in the words of Ricky Ricardo...  he'll have some 'splainin' to do. 

*** When watching tonight’s returns: Keep this in mind: While the Philly region has reported its vote fairly quickly the last two election cycles, before 2004, the vote count has been very slow from the area. If the vote count is slow in this area tonight, then expect a couple of things: 1) the networks and AP will hold off on calling this race too quickly and 2) Clinton could have what appears to be a VERY big lead in early returns since most of Obama's vote is in the Philly media market.

*** Bill is back! And don’t miss Bill’s comments to Philadelphia’s WHYY radio (an NPR affiliate) regarding his South Carolina reference to Jesse Jackson: “I think that they played the race card on me. And we now know, from memos from the campaign and everything that they planned to do it along… I frankly thought the way the Obama campaign reacted was disrespectful to Jesse Jackson. And I called him and asked HIM if he found anything offensive and he just laughed and said, ‘OF COURSE I don’t. We all know what’s going on… You gotta really go some to play the race card with me – MY office is in Harlem.” More on this below…

*** On the trail: Clinton makes a local stop in Philadelphia and holds her election night party in the city of Brotherly Love; McCain makes the second stop on his “Time for Action” tour in Youngstown, OH; and Obama makes stops at polling places in Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and then holds a rally in Evansville, IN after polls close in Pennsylvania.

Countdown to North Carolina, Indiana: 14 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 196 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 273 days
 
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Comments

Our best wishes to Senator Obama today.  We hope to see you at a huge victory rally tonight.  Then we hope to watch Chuck Todd, Chris Matthews, the Clinton Broadcast System (CBS) and the Clinton News Network (CNN) eat crow.
Lessons to be learned from this disasterous primary season - Dems...change the system to a winner takes all, 100% primary, zero caucus, system!  Enough with the proportional nonsense. Enough with super delegates.  It just makes it more complicated and the likelihood of these kinds of nasty bitter fights that only harms the party.
Clintons have been "Dirty & Dirtier" in the PA camapign, assumimng that voters there are "Dumb & Dumber"...Come on PA, send em packin'.
------------------------------------------
Boo MSM...not a word about the Farakan/Rendell/Clinton "association"
Guess threre is a double standard about these kinds of things. Don't count on th Main Stream Media to make your decision...THINK!!! "If you want a good cool drink of water you gotta dig a little deeper in the well..."
OBAMA '08!
YES WE CAN!!
Just like it always does, the election is going to come down to Guam.
If anything will cause Hillary to lose this, it will be her husband.  Deep down, he is a racist and he shows his true colors.

Of course he will win Puerto Rico....
Bill let two terrorists go when he pardoned them....
To this day, I still believe if we capture Bin laden, a liberal will pardon an free him.....

The Clinton's can spin this all they want to until Hillary gets dizzy and barfs in Bill's lap; but she has to win big tonight.  I'm sure she will get a bunch of folks in the PA who just think she is darling and vote for her, but then will realize a year later, all Hillary wants is the power.
Bring on the Good News

Obama'08
After today, the superdelegates will start to move towards Hillary. After Obama loses big in Pennsylvania, these superdelegates, many of them freshman middle of the road congressman, will realize they cannot win reelection with Obama at the head of the ticket. They will start to move to the more moderate Hillary as their nominee.
What happens if all them Pennsylvaniacs write in 'Al Gore'?
Operation Chaos - Engage!
Ah... yes we can what? Change...change our whole political system? Turn the page...what does that mean? Nobody seems to be able to answer. Obama is a gigantic fraud...and I pray that people are finally waking up to this. I will not vote for this phoney democrat.
Let's take a step back to reality for a second.

Obama WAS down 20% a few weeks ago when this all started.  

If he finishes down 8%, or even 10%, that means Clinton's support is eroding.  The superdelegates, even in their wildest dreams, will not give the primary nomination to someone whose support is eroding.
I find it ridiculous the media seems to equate Ohio and Pennsylvania. The demographics are better for Sen. Clinton in PA and ads aren't nearly as effective at this late point of the race.
Furthermore, PA's political culture is very different from Ohio's.
1. Senator Obama has spent more money because he has more money. The money was donated for him to campaign with, so why is there a problem with him using it? Why is him spending money he has a bigger story than Senator Clinton being in debt with a string of UNPAID bills?

2. Senator Clinton is talking FREQUENTLY about annihilating Iran with a nuclear weopon. Why is this not news? What is the point of withdrawing from Iraq if we are going to follow it up with bobming Iran? How is this approach to diplomacy any different than the Bush administration?

3. No matter how the media "spins" the numbers, the simple fact is that Senator Clinton is not going to have more pledged delegates than Senator Obama, and that no amount of rearranging of the popular vote and/or expectations is going to change that.

4. Finally, after all the talk about Senator Obama's "seal of approval" for Farraknan, when is Senator Clinton going to "reject and denounce" Ed Rendell, for his glowing endorsement and appearence with Farrakhan and the Nation of Islam? (Double standard much "main stream" media?)

BARACK THE VOTE!

OBAMA '08

Today is the last stand for Monica Lewinsky's boyfriends wife.  She needs a minimum of 60% in order to salvage her pathetic debt-ridden campaign.  Also, she needs 60% to take the focus off of April 25, when a hearing will be held in the Peter Paul trial.  Imagine someone accusing Hillary Clinton of fraud.  Who would believe such a thing would happen.
"You gotta really go some to play the race card with me – MY office is in Harlem.”

Bill Clinton is a clown if he thinks having an office in Harlem grants him any favor in the Black community.
Can't wait to watch Hillary's victory speech tonight!
Wonder how negatively MSNBC's TV Crew (Mathews, Olberman, Eugene Robinson) and their political-whore unit here at First Read will spin it.
Also wonder when Obama's going to explain the relationship he has today, with people who bombed buildings, shot law enforcement and security officers, and robbed an armored car 30 years ago.
Real good people for a potential President to be taking money from and hanging around with.
But hey, that's all forgottemn now. Those police officer's families have surely gotten over their grief by now. So what the hell?
G Costanza, NYC (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:31 AM)

Yeah! Sure! Ya Betcha!
And they don't even get an electoral vote in November.
Of course primaries and political parties aren't in the constitution.  We had two presidents that belonged to none.
What happened to the pundits' declaration that anything less than a 10 point win by Clinton meant she was out of the race.  Suddenly, Todd is saying anything less than 5?  Why do you continue to move the bar in Clinton's favor?  Does it not count that she was originally ahead in the polls by more than 20 points?  Why can't you help this nation by being objective rather than helping to create a feeding frenzy of speculation and innuendo?
I long for the good old days, when journalism meant objectivity and facts.  Now, its 24 hour so-called "news" cycles of hype and sensationalism.
I miss Uncle Walter Cronkite and the other noble journalists more than words can say.
What in the world is up with Clinton's nuclear threats against Iran?
Legal troubles ahead?
Campaign finance experts said yesterday that large extended debts owed to professionals could create legal trouble for the campaign if they remain unaddressed.

"Anybody who extends credit to a campaign runs the risk of either losing money or violating the law," said Jan Baran, a Republican election lawyer who defended a mail house for not collecting debt from a campaign.

Hillary started April $9.3 million in the bank
She has over $10 million in debt
A preview of how she will run the country if she gets the win in november.....

She better tap that $109 million her and her worthless racist husand made to pay her bills....

Or is it bcause she is a woman and a liberal, she will be allowed a pass on this?????

Hillary Clinton
A liar for All Seasons.....
MSNBC won't post this, but I'll say it anyway.  Hillary is not going to the super delegates claiming Obama is unelectable; she is doing it for the people of Pennsylvania and Indiana.  Basically she is trying to scare white and black Democrats who are not prejudiced; but who fear America is still a racist country.  Of course if Obama keeps 90% of the people currently voting for him and 70% of Hillary's voters; even with defections he wins the Presidency.  What the media is not saying is that the majority of the 30% claiming to vote for McCain; will most likely vote for Obama or not vote at all.  

Also, to all this stuff about Obama being Kerry, Gore, or Dukakis?  First, I don’t remember people going crazy over any of these guys when they ran for office. As I recall, my mom and I said they lost as soon as Kerry was chosen (we liked Edwards).  More to the point, wasn't Kerry a not very likeable policy wonk?  Isn't that also what Clinton is described as; cold, not very friendly, but she knows her stuff?  Wouldn't this mean then that she, not Obama, looks more like the type of candidate Democrats have paraded out and lost with in the past?  The red phone moment, pictures of Osama, Hillary is proving more Mondale than B. Clinton.  
I do not believe that Obama has "some splaining to do."  In Conn. the electorate is that way it is.  Older,white, etc.
If the tables were turned , Hillary was the front runner, she had the money, and the contest was in Mississippi, would she have some "splaining to do?"  No.  It has to do with the electorate.  This is why the illusion of momentum is just that, an illusion.  You guys no better than that.
:-) This 54 yo white male just voted for Obama after switching to the Democratic party from the Republican Party. Best of luck Obama. :-)
There is no reason for the networks and cable news not to be counting the popular vote in Florida.  If the DNC doesn't want to seat the delegation, it doesn't change the fact that Clinton got 300,000 more votes than Obama in Florida.  I am sick of this popular vote not being factored in by the MSM.  And I don't know what planet the first commenter is living on -- clearly CNN and MSNBC are 'in the tank' for Obama, despite his phoniness, lack of experience, failure to keep any promises he made before and after being elected to the Senate, and failure to act in the Senate.  I am sorry to see that such a great chance for the Democrats to win this year has been ruined by the spin the MSM has chosen to give in favor of promoting Obama, despite his complete lack of credentials for the job.  The president of the US can't vote 'present'  and waffle - he/she has to make decisions.  Obama has voted with the majority for the brief time he is in the Senate, thus helping to keep the war in Iraq that he presciently supposedly opposed before he was in Senate going on, after he got elected.  He has not kept one promise (including his promise not to run for president in 2008!).  If Obama gets the nomination, we have four more years of GOP.
"Lessons to be learned from this disasterous primary season - Dems...change the system to a winner takes all, 100% primary, zero caucus, system!  Enough with the proportional nonsense. Enough with super delegates.  It just makes it more complicated and the likelihood of these kinds of nasty bitter fights that only harms the party. "
-Pat, Huntington NY

That's a bad idea in my opinion.  While the current system is too unfriendly to the victor considering how the delegates awarded rarely match the popular vote, the GOP system of winner-take-all is horrible.  It's certainly more decisive, but winning 50.1 to 49.9 shouldn't result in a 150 delegate swing for a state.  That result doesn't reflect the voting trend of that state, or reward the electability of BOTH candidates.

As usual, the best system would likely be a mix of both.  Many people say seating Mich/Flor would best be done by combining the votes cast with the overall national vote.  Perhaps for future elections they could somehow award delegates based upon a mix of district-by-district breakdowns with the winner-take-all popular vote.

This way, winning 51% to 49% would give the victor a bump, but not the ridiculous all to nothing results of current winner-take-all states.
The problem is that Obama built an early lead in small states before anyone really knew the man. Now that we see what Obama stands for, who he associates with, and that he is elitist who knows what's best for us bitter people, his popularity is waning.

I'm voting for Hillary today.
Like I said yesterday, I kinda hope Clinton wins by 20, so everyone will be forced to acknowledge it doesn't matter. She's lost.

Which is a good thing, based on what seems to be some reckless talk regarding Iran. She's a foreign policy nitwit.
It's a "no brainer".  Senator Obama has more supporters who are willing to finance him as their candidate of choice.  Therefore, he has more money to spend.  He has handled his finances quite well and, may I remind you, had not left a string of debts behind him.  

One cannot help but observe each candidate as they handle the finances of their campaign and project that on how they would handle the financial responsibility of this country as President.

This is only one clue, of many, as to which candidate would make the better president.  

This is from a great-grandmother (who happens to be a "recovering republican")that sees hope and encouragement for a future with Obama as our leader.  

Has anyone noticed if Al Gore has lost weight lately?
He is the only candidate I will accept if Obama is denied the nomination. Never, never, never Hillary.
So, you can waste web space with badgering over waffles and sausage, but NOT on a blatant double speak by the Clinton camp RE: Rendell and Nation of Islam!?

So much for news priorities.  I suppose you thought it was too late to make a difference in peoples' minds?
I really don't think money would help either candidate. Look at how much Romney spent and was not even able to get close to McCain.
I would argue that Obama's massive spending has more to do with his introduction to voters, and he needs this massive amount because he is an upstart national politician, not a firmly established candidate like Hillary Clinton.
So, stop trying to make a big deal out of his spending. You should also note that Pa. is a closed primary state with more conservatives than those in Ohio.
Where's the Hope

Obama '08 and 4PEACE'09
do you smell what Barack is cooking?
I'm not sure what there's left to say other than it does feel like an eternity since we've had a primary or caucus.  Sigh.

I salute all the people on the ground for Obama, all the supporters, all the endorsers, and the candidate himself.

Keep the faith, we will prevail in November...our support is only just beginning.

Lisa in CT (Obama for our best future)

Don't forget you can vote for the third Democrat:

JOHN McCAIN 2008

Vote for someone who actually works with both sides.

Imagine a President that isn't too far left or right.

How about a President who walks down the center.

John McCain / Colin Powell  2008
Why does the MSM insist on playing these games? There has NEVER been a poll showing Obama might win in Pennsylvania. Even BEFORE all the media-induced dramas about flag pins and Weathermen, Obama was not slated to win Pennsylvania. So nothing can really be read into a loss in the state for him.

Furthermore, it won't be embarrassing if Obama loses after all the money he's spent. Please give the man credit for trying so valiantly. He could have been like Hillary and just not campaigned much, like she did in D.C., Maryland, Virginia, Wisconsin, etc., places where she was slated to lose. But Obama at least tried even though he is slated to lose in Pennsylvania. The media were all over Hillary because she didn't even try in the post Super Tuesday states, but now it's reversing position to parrot the Clinton campaign spin by making mockery of Obama's efforts to try to close the gap in Pennsylvania.

Do you people get dizzy from turning yourselves inside out to parrot Hillary's talking points, even if it contradicts something you've said months earlier?
OJ SIMPSOM ..... What does Oj Simpsom have to do with barack obama, well .... let me tell you. During the Oj murder trial, the prosecutors were trying their case totally based on what the TV pundits and court TV was saying and telling them. guess what, they LOST big time.
Now fast forward to today and barack obama is running his campaign totally based on the TV pundits and what MSNBC tells him. Guess what, he WILL LOSE BIG.

12000,000 million dollars ...WOW.... and still cannot win a BIG State or knock HILLARY CLINTON out.

YOU WANT TO SEE REAL STRENGTH .... HILLARY APPEARING ON KEITH OLBERMANN SHOW, DESPITE THEIR OVERWHELMING SUPPORT FOR " THE RACE BAITER " barack obama.

Polls .... Polls .... All you media and proctectors of the COOKIE package WHINNER, Hillary Clinton will WIN by 20+ pts today in PA.

...... MASTER CARD MOMENT .....
Whatching olbermann trying to trip up and get a gotcha moment during his interview with Hillary Clinton ......... PRICELESS.
Today is the last stand for Monica Lewinsky's boyfriends wife.  She needs a minimum of 60% in order to salvage her pathetic debt-ridden campaign.  Also, she needs 60% to take the focus off of April 25, when a hearing will be held in the Peter Paul trial.  Imagine someone accusing Hillary Clinton of fraud.  Who would believe such a thing would happen.
Sick of corruption, sick of the Clintons (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:43 AM)

--------------------------
The reason I will vote for McCain is YOU!  YOU and ALL the scum who trash and bash Senator Clinton, may you rest in peace!
Philadelphia Flyers have game 7 tonight.  Do some Clinton voters stay home and watch the game after work instead of going to vote?  The Capitals win last night sets up this morning's headline:  "Ovechkin Delivers Win for ... Obama"
Chuck Todd, on every blog this morning I submitted a link to the youtube video showing Rendell praising Farrahkan.  Why have you not posted it?  And, why have you not made any comments of your own about the video?  Be unbiased.
I remain mystified that the media omits that Obama began with a 20% deficit and a 16 year disadvantage. Still, nothing will occur today that will alter the ultimate outcome - Obama has already won the nomination.

I, for one, will be glad when we finish this stuff and get on to the General Election!
Pat Huntington, NY... Your recommendations for changing the primary system is too pro-Hillary and too biased for even sensible Hillary supporters to agree. I really don't think Hillary won your state and California because they were primaries, but because she is a  well established candidate that even the media did not predict Obama would defeat.
My Thoughts on The Clinton Camp After seeing Them in action just before Mini Tuesday. Hillary is an irrational liar , Bill is a Semi- racist liar (only racist when coming to the defense of his wife wink wink ) ,and poor Chelsea is a snobby little liar. I trully believe that anyone that can vote for Hillary after the way she has carried on this past few months. Deserves her for anyone that lies and gets caught as much as she does is to obvious. The problem is not that they are liars (which is a problem ) the problem is that they are bad liars much like G W Bush another bad liar. Using fear tactics is so republican it makes me sad that they have stooped to the level. But as my republican friends from work have been telling me. That' the Clintons.
Like I said yesterday, I kinda hope Clinton wins by 20, so everyone will be forced to acknowledge it doesn't matter. She's lost.

Which is a good thing, based on what seems to be some reckless talk regarding Iran. She's a foreign policy nitwit.
Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 9:51 AM
------------------------------------------------

Mmm... A dream is a wish your heart makes, when you are fast asleep!
The problem is that Obama built an early lead in small states before anyone really knew the man. Now that we see what Obama stands for, who he associates with, and that he is elitist who knows what's best for us bitter people, his popularity is waning.

I'm voting for Hillary today.
Becky Holliday, Monroeville, PA
------------------------------------------------------It's always amazing to me that apparently it doesn't matter to Hillary supporters WHO the Clinton's associate with.........shady business deals, Bill giving not only speeches, but jobs to Columbia. And you see THAT as being okay? Go figure. Obama '08
Cooking socialism? Too bad you have fallen a victim a Hillary's excellent propaganda machine.
I can't believe that msnbc Keith O., and cnn Larry King did not ask Hillary about her campaign being in debt. This goes with how she will run the country. They both gave her a free pass on this. They both took the easy way, and asked very easy questions. I expected that from cnn, but not from msnbc.
Don't forget that when considering the popular vote, several states that held contests are not included in your estimates. IA, NV, ME, WA have not reported turnsouts. Although the margin of victory in cummulative popular vote for Obama was relatively small because they were caucuses, Obama's true popular vote lead includes an additional 100,000-200,000 votes you haven't included in the 700,000 number.
The Conscience of America:

So, how do you feel about Bill Clinton pardoning those terrorists?  Oh, wait, Hillary was against that decision wasn't she?  I'm sure she was also against the Marc Rich pardon.  Yep, so sad, she cried all the way to the bank.

Obama in 2008.  Integrity matters and the Clintons have none.  Just ask their creditors.


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