Duck, here comes the spin on PA

Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:29 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Mark Murray
The Obama and Clinton campaigns have released dueling memos to frame today's Pennsylvania primary. The Cliffs Notes version: The Obama folks continue to argue that Clinton was always favored in the state, but that the delegate math is stacked against her. Meanwhile, Team Clinton wonders -- if Obama is the front-runner -- why he shouldn't be expected to win in the Keystone State.

The Obama camp's memo: "Clinton has been leading by large margins in Pennsylvania. In the weeks leading up to the primary, she led by as much as 25 points. They were so confident that their own Pennsylvania spokesman said Clinton would be 'unbeatable' in Pennsylvania—regardless of spending by her opponent... Behind in delegates and sporting a 14-30 primary record (not good enough even to make the playoffs in the NBA Eastern Conference), the Clinton campaign needs a blowout victory in Pennsylvania to get any closer to winning the nomination. Even President Clinton said that only a 'big, big victory' will give her the boost she needs."

More: "Tonight’s outcome is unlikely to change the dynamic of this lengthy primary. Fully three quarters of the remaining delegates will be selected in states other than Pennsylvania. While there are 158 delegates at stake in today’s primary, there are 157 up for grabs in the Indiana and North Carolina primaries two weeks from today. We expect that by tomorrow morning, the overall structure of the race will remain unchanged—except for the fact that there will be 158 delegates off the table."

The Clinton memo: "[A]fter the Obama campaign’s 'go-for-broke' Pennsylvania strategy, after their avalanche of negative ads, negative mailers and negative attacks against Sen. Clinton, after their record-breaking spending in the state, a fundamental question must be asked: Why shouldn't Sen. OBAMA win? Sen. Obama's supporters -- and many pundits -- have argued that the delegate 'math' makes him the prohibitive front-runner. They have argued that Sen. Clinton's chances are slim to none. So if he's already the front-runner, if he's had six weeks of unlimited resources to get his message out, shouldn't he be the one expected to win tonight? If not, why not? As the phrase goes, watch what they do not what they say."

"There's a reason Sen. Obama and his campaign have ratcheted up their year-long assault on Sen. Clinton's character and ended the Pennsylvania campaign with a flurry of harsh negative attacks. It's because they know that a loss in Pennsylvania will raise troubling questions about his candidacy and his ability to take on John McCain in the general election. And it's because they know that the race is neck and neck and tonight's contest is a measure of where the campaign stands."

EMAIL THIS

Comments

Hillary needs to stop trying to act like Obama's money could've helped him with winning. Why is she acting like the Pennsylvania voters can be "bought"??? Just because you have money doesn't ALWAYS mean you can influence people's loyalties, and she should just be happy that the loyal people weren't influenced by Obama's cash flow.

Obama has made more money, and it makes it easier to advertise, but influence and finance are two different things. Just because you have the finance and you can't pull out the influence doesn't mean that there is some huge problem.

We the people aren't just going to go with the most cash. I'm for Obama, and even if Hillary had a ton of money, she'd wouldn't sway me… because of my CONVICTION.

She's leading the state because the demographics favor her, period. Obama's money can't change that and she knows it. She's just trying to make him look like a fool for it.

P, CA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM)

The funny thing is about the Clinton memo... is that the Clinton Campaign is the one that is broke not the Obama Campaign.

I am shocked by the lack of attention to the money issues for the Clinton Campaign. Also does anyone else think that the co-creator of the vast right-wing conspiracy who indorsed Clinton, may have done so just to help drag this primary on for a longer period.

Finally, can someone put a muzzle on President Clinton. The more he speaks the more he makes a fool of himself. It amazes me to see his arrogance towards the race card that he played in South Carolina... to quote the man himself..."Give me a break"

EJ, VA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM)

Sorry Hillary, but Obama didn't go for broke, because he still has about $40 Mil. and your the one that is broke. If you have the money why save it.

boogeyman, mamaroneck, ny (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:37 PM)

Sorry Hillary, but Obama didn't go for broke, because he still has about $40 Mil. and your the one that is broke. If you have the money why save it.

boogeyman, mamaroneck, ny (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:38 PM)

How can the Clinton people even keep a straight face when delivering that load of bull?

BL, Cincinnati OH (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:38 PM)

You really cant say Go For Broke to the Obama campaign. They arent the ones in red. If anyone went Broke, its the Clinton campaign.

Rob (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:38 PM)

Just like Hillary not to recognize the fact that
Obama has been on the offensive to the Clinton attacks.

Karl Rove tactics indicate : use intimidation, scare,
fear, and out right lie tactics to advance at all costs. Way to go Hillary. I hope the PA people don't
listen to you being as your track record has been
proven to be full of it.

One more thing, Hillary cannot even keep her campaign
finances out to the red. What will she do if elected
into the White House.

Obama '08

Kim M--AZ (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:40 PM)

"There's a reason Sen. Obama and his campaign have ratcheted up their year-long assault on Sen. Clinton's character..."

It's because she has none.

CitizenJ (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:40 PM)

OMG!!

Requiem for a "light weight," maybe. "The Voters" are going to define Obama as a hard left, Liberal on the verge of being reduced to a "fringe" candidate. Can he over come this? Well he has lots of money maybe he can get enough spin machines to make him look "middle." But the real problem, and it will be a very difficult problem for Obama to over come, is, he ain't middle, he's hard left....

He's been exposed, it took a huge effort by "Rocky Balboa Clinton" stying in the fight until the "14th round" but she's done it. If the undecided's break for her and she comes out of the "14th" with double digits, pull up your rocking chairs, and rethink your bets, because "the fight" will be "won" in the "15th." It's a long ways from being over, anyway you cut the cake, the girl is tough, bulldog tough.

Well you know what they say about Dracula, "you just can't keep a good man down." And, the sweet lady in the Obama Campaign, did say "Hillary's a monster," boy, I bet they just didn't know how much.... Can't kill that thing, it just keeps coming....

The hard fact is, like a good monster, she carved him up a good bit in the last debate, he looked exhusted, and she looked sharp. Seems the "Grid Iron" is made for her. But no one should underestimate Obama's money, it's keeping him competitive, if she wins big "today," he's certainly going to need it.

May the best "man" win.

Anti Reaganess, Big Talkers.

Anti Reaganess, Columbus Georgia. (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:41 PM)

Can we muzzle the spinners for both candidates. Their contempt for the public audience is simply appalling

b, new york (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:41 PM)

Can we muzzle the spinners for both candidates. Their contempt for the public audience is simply appalling

b (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:42 PM)

Can we muzzle the spinners for both candidates. Their contempt for the public audience is simply appalling

b (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:42 PM)

here come the paid Obamapods...watch out, they will eat you and spit out a new obamapod.

PAt Huntington NY (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:42 PM)

This is why he will find it hard to win Hillary: Someone in PA took his name off the Ballot!!!

In addition, the clintonian media central,all own by people who back Hillary have put out the word not to harm Queen Hillary. Morning Joe, the Verdict dude, Lou Dobbs, Fox News Network, your all a bunch of cowards.

Negative: Hillary you don't know negative. Negative would be bring up all your Negatives! Obama hasn't even scratched the surface. The Republicans will bring up Peter Paul, Monica, and NAFTA, and a dozen other scandals you've been involved in. They will include Bill as if he were you!

Negative: you should thank you lucky stars, Hillary, that Obama is going to beat you

Negative-who's negative (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:42 PM)

I'm going to keep this brief because I have to go and contribute to Obama's campaign. The Clintonistas are moving the goalposts again and I want to make sure that the Obama people have enough flashlights to find them.

I sure hope for the media's sake that Hillary stops campaigning at least over the Christmas holidays.

Is there anything that Hillary or Bill didn't say these last two weeks? And now, that PA is over, we can read the conspiracy memoes that detail how Bill was coerced into playing the race card. This is such a major issue that Bill wouldn't lie about something like this, right? Accordingly, he certainly would have kept these memoes as evidence. Do you think this is like the mental spoon bending trick?

MBM Chicago, IL (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:44 PM)

Oh, it just gets funnier and funnier. I won't repeat the obvious gaffe in the Clinton memo, as nearly everyone above already mentioned it - but truly unbelievable they can say this stuff with a straight face.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:44 PM)

Bottom line - Obama was never expected to win PA. Per Rendell, this was to be an "easy win" for Clinton. Do we expect Clinton to win NC, hell no - same thing, just reversed outcomes.

The Dead Guy (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:45 PM)

Yeah, it is whatever the Clintons say!

T (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:45 PM)

I don't understand this. Is Obama supposed to NOT use the money his crazy impressive grassroots campaign people volunteered specifically for this purpose?

So what - is he to not spend the money designated for that purpose on the account of getting on her level? I mean her level right now is in the red after debts so I suppose the Obama campaign should now find ways to go in debt to keep things even steven.

I'm getting so tired of Clinton, voters, superD's....please end this!

Mark, Raleigh, NC (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:46 PM)

It's time for Sen. Clinton to pack it away. The tide turned on Super Tuesday, when she couldn't beat a political novice, of whom most hadn't heard before 2004. Enough with the malarkey, Senator Clinton!

Brendan D, Niles, IL (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:47 PM)

The Clinton camp said: "Sen. Obama and his campaign have ratcheted up their year-long assault on Sen. Clinton's character...." UNBELIEVABLE!! Accuse the other guy of doing just exactly what YOU"VE been doing. Hillary's whole strategy has been to cast doubts on Barack's character. The Obama camp has not had any need to try to make Hillary look bad, she's done that all by herself! Clinton old school politics assumes people are ready and willing to buy whatever crap they are selling. NOT THIS TIME!!

JohnnyU, WA State (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:47 PM)

An obvious sign of a dying candidacy:

When your opponent spends 100% of his/her time telling people why you SHOULDN'T be president rather than why he/she SHOULD.

She's out of arguments; she's out of time.

Goodbye, Senator Clinton. And good riddance.

CitizenJ (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:47 PM)

"Go for Broke"

Uh, the gross mismanagment of the Clinton campaign and it's finances (over $10Million in debt)...

Now that's truly going for broke

common sense (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:48 PM)

Hillary Clinton can't raise the amount of money Barack Obama has raised all over the country. His campaign worked harder in January and February than hers did.

It's never a good idea to write off every state except for the big states.

Barack Obama has done extremely well in PA. It's a big state. He wasn't as well known as Clinton was - or even John Kerry was in 2004.

It takes a long time to build up a strong base. He has done over and above what anyone's expectations were.

And it all started in Iowa. The only reason she won in NH was because of the sympathy vote. He made inroads in CA and Texas.

She was supposed to have had this wrapped up on Super Tuesday. Her campaign dropped the ball and the voters took notice.

The Clintons took too much for granted. And they behaved badly.

David Axelrod ran a nearly flawless campaign - Barack Obama went into this campaign respecting each and every vote. He went out and earned it.

And the country took notice.

Barack Obama did what neither Joe Biden and Chuck Dodd could do - he beat the Clintons - both of them.

By himself.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:48 PM)

Spin this!
At the end of the Primary season (she obviously intends to stay in for the whole thing) the Candidate with the most delegates and the most popular vote should receive the necessary amount of super delegates to win the Nomination. That means the fate of the Democratic party is in the hands of the super delegates and no one else.
Will we remain the 'DEMOCRATIC' party? Or will we become the 'DEMOCRAT' party, pronounced with all the negative inflection and derision that George W Bush usually spits the word out with.

Gary Schear, Bozeman Montana (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:48 PM)

The funny thing about the Clinton campaign saying that Obama can't win in the GE is that the Clinton campaign can't even beat him in the primary, what does that say about the Clinton campaign in the GE???

Steven, Highlands Ranch (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:48 PM)

Is she really trying to make him look bad for being able to pick people who can manage a lucrative campaign while she can't keep her bills paid?

I started off this thing knowing I was going to vote for Hillary as I did well during the Clinton years..then the more I heard/read of Barack I was torn..then the more she spoke she made me totally on his side.

With each passing day she seems like a desparate politician who changes the rules of the game to suit her even if it means flat out lying. She insults voters with her lies yet she tries to put that on him. I'm starting to doubt she at all cares for the American people. All she wants is to win.

Jo, High Point, NC (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:49 PM)

The Clinton camp talks as though having money is a liability...I bet they'd like to have some of it though. Look, if she hadn't been spending so much money on Mark Penn, Howard Wolfson, and nice hotel suites, then maybe she would have some money to be spending on advertising. Obama shouldn't have to apologize for properly managing his campaign and spending money properly. She is basically saying "look I have run such a horrible campaign and am in debt, but I still won Pennsylvania so I should be the nominee (oh, but forget about the 30 contests I lost)!"

Jamil - Dearborn, MI (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:49 PM)

Enough already. This particular nonsense has gone on far too long and cost far too much. The news media would do well to report on the amount of money these two egotists have wasted instead of reporting on how much is being spend to bring Democracy to the Middle East region.

Thank you for your time.

The Outlander (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:50 PM)

I recall ROmney outspending MCCain 4 to 1 and he's out now. Are we supposed to be stupid? Of course, Hill had the advantage with 20 points initial support, Governor and nearly 80% of the democratic party support.

Peter Roland (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:51 PM)

DOUBLE DIGITS--AT LEAST !... Hillary needs a 10 pt win MINIMUM to say she can continue.

Anything less than double digits is a LOSS for HRC and she should bow out with whatever grace she has left (at this point imagine it similar as a drunkin three legged Rhino)

Reality Check, NY (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:51 PM)

I like how the Clinton campaign tries to brand a name on the Obama strategies - "Go for broke"

Maybe they are trying to counter the perception of the 'kitchen sink' strategies of the Clinton campaign

except the term and concept 'kitchen sink' was created by the Clinton camp! unabashedly negative...

and literally BROKE

common sense (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:52 PM)

I wonder how long Hillary's free ride will last? Hope the people in PA got paid.

Karen, Des Moines, IA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:52 PM)

Clinton had a 20 pt lead initially. PA is demographically favorable to Clinton. Clinton is largely backed by the political establishment. Republicans are registering as Democrats to help her win bc they would rather run against her in November. Clinton has benfited from late Obama gaffes. Clinton is coming off of a recent lop-sided debate victory. Anything less than a 20 pt victory will leave the game virtually unchanged. If she doesns't win by 20+ pts today, she should drop out. Remember... electoral votes don't count until November.

Dave, NY, NY (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:52 PM)

The first real item that Hillary Clinton has EVER been in charge of in her entire life of 60+ years is her presidential campaign. She has proven over and over throughout it that she is NO LEADER. She is a failure in budgeting and operating, she is a failure in making good personnel decisions, she is a failure in working well with others. At the core of her many failures is her complete lack of integrity, and moral compass. Hillary Clinton is NOT qualified to be POTUS.

Lady Professor (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:52 PM)

Obama has the audacity to claim he is a change agent. What has he ever done to change anything? He hasn't been in the senate long enough to do anything and has done nothing to change the way Washington works. He is all talk and never takes hard positions that might come back to haunt him.

Hillary is more able to bring change to Washington. She knows how to work there and her policies are all for the good of the american people.

New Yorker for Hillary (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:53 PM)

she may just win PA but will she have enough delegates to the the primary? NOPE!!!!!!
Lets stay positive, does she really think Obama only need to win "da big states" to have a chance to win the general? And why does she think the dems wont come together to vote for him in the general election? Hillary Clinton is a certified an idiot!!!!

exit stage left hillary (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:58 PM)

MSNBC -

YOU HAVE TO CALL HER ON THE 'FRONT-RUNNER' SO YOU SHOULD WIN ARGUMENT. HOW MANY STATES DID McCAIN LOSE TO HUCKABEE WHEN HE WAS INEVITABLE?

FURTHERMORE, ISN'T OBAMA MAKING THE CLINTON CAMPAIGN GO BROKE WITH THE PENNSYLVANIA SPENDING? SURE HAVEN'T SEEN TOO MANY COMMERICALS IN INDIANA . . . SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD STRATEGY. SHE'S LIKE HUCKABEE; ONLY HE NEVER GOT THE FREE PRESS SHE CONTINUES TO GET.

Trey, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:00 PM)

"Bring democracy to the Middle East region"... here we go again. US foreign policy is not, and has rarely been, about spreading democracy. History belies that oft-cited sound bite. It is no different in Iraq: the only reasont he US are there is because it is a strategic region IN the Middle East, destined to replace Iran, which after the Islamic Revolution ceased to be a friend of the US. Sorry Outlander.

Bruno (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:01 PM)

The Super Delegates, and the lack of leadership of the Democratic party are the reason for the this mess. With no path for Hillary to win, they are spinless and will not end this. If we lose to John McCain it will be the fault of the Super Delegates, for not letting our party unite now.

Gail, Dayton, OH (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:01 PM)

Hillary will win huge today. The democratic party will realize that Obama can not win against McCain.
You cannot win the election if you do not have the blue collar working white vote and the senior woman vote. Hillary is our best chance as democrats to win back the White House. My feeling is this might be as high as 12-15% walloping today in one of the biggest swing states need for the general election in November. Good Luck Hillary!!!!

Kevin,Fl (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:03 PM)

Amazing. This fiasco is about the lazy, nail biting fraidy-cat super delegates who have never had to shoot the lame burro (Hillary), shift the load to the thoroughbred (Obama), so they can move on down the trail to meet the enemy. If these super delegates hang around and lament the burro's condition much longer, the enemy is going to run over them while they sit there.

Rita - OKC, OK (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:03 PM)

Sorry, but it looks like it's the Clinton campaign that is going-for-broke. Anyway, money cannot buy votes. The Republican caucus in Iowa proved that. Remember that Huckabee spent $35 per vote in Iowa to Mitt Romney's $238. So, this argument by the Clinton camp doesn't hold water, just like their argument that winning a state in a primary means that you (and only you) can win it in the general election.

Brian, Clinton, IA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:04 PM)

He is all talk and never takes hard positions that might come back to haunt him.
Hillary is more able to bring change to Washington. She knows how to work there and her policies are all for the good of the american people.
-----------------------------------------------------
So coming out against the Iraq War before it started and just before you a run for the US Senate isn't "risky"?

Didn't Hillary already fail at trying to get Healthcare reform through?

Aren't their policy positions virtually identical (except for that mandate thing and the umbrella thing)?

You are Hillaryous.

Dave, NY, NY (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:04 PM)

per the NYT, the Pennsylvania Primary is breaking all records for turnout. Same thing happened in Maine and we went for Obama. Does Hillary really think people are that excited to be voting for her? Maybe the old ladies are, but its Obama who is bringing people into the Party.

Amy B Portland, ME (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:05 PM)

OMG!!

The Clinton Strategy, is simple, keep the game going long enough, and then, as Obama is painted more and more as a left winged, fringe bomb clincher candidate. I for one do not believe he clinches bombs, butI do believe he is much more hard left than the general picture people have of him.

The it's Clinton's "hope of change" you can believe in, is that the Super's are going to decide he is unelectable.

It's really very simple and calculated, the longer the campaign goes on and the more people see of him the less they like, or believe he is who has been saying he is. It's not out right dislike, but it is a "changing awareness." His perception of being above it all, and as a unifying candidate is fading, it's not taking a nose dive, but it is fading....

Obama's rhetoric has (never) matched his deeds or his record, even his "social premise" of bring ordinary people together, has been punctured via "Afrocentrism" it all starting to crumble around him. Can he survive intact maybe? Clinton's strategy is he can't. She has a simple pragmatic approach....

But Obama's problem is, Clinton's strategy, is working. And the "Left worries."

Anti Reaganess, Big Talkers.

Anti Reaganess, Columbus Georgia. (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:06 PM)

Why do you report both camps as "spinning" when one is demonstrably correct and the other is isn't? Clinton DOES need a huge margin, and even then the numbers are against her. That's not spin, it's straight math. The Clinton camp spin is absurd on its face, it's just trash talking. There's no logic behind "a win is a win" either. There's nothing biased about reporting the truth, even if it favors one candidate over the other. In fact that's your responsibility, inform the public. Don't equate everything and then act like it's fair. One camp is spinning in this case, and the other is just stating the truth.

Brett Morris, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:07 PM)

http://bravenewfilms.org/blog/35838-fox-reporter-squashed-by-father-s-words-on-wright

A catholic priest stands up for the Reverend Wright against a Fox News attempted hit piece.

Vote with your head, vote for the economy, vote for jobs.

Vote Democratic 2008 -- don't let the corporations and their Republican stooges win again.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:08 PM)

Dave,

PA is not an open primary. Republicans cannot register as democrats and vote for HRC in the democratic primary.

Thursday (Sent Tuesday, April 22, 2008 4:08 PM)

Next >>

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=932542