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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Delegate update: More PA numbers

Posted: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:02 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
NBC News has updated its Pennsylvania pledged delegate count. Clinton now has an 80-71 split with seven delegates still to be allocated.

Keep in mind, however, that when the counting is done, Clinton will likely net more than that.

Obama now leads by 157 in the pledged delegate count: 1,488-1,331

Factoring in the superdelegate count (Clinton 262, Obama 238), Obama leads by 133 overall: 1,726-1,593.

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Closing the gap!

We're all for you Hillary!!

Girls from USF (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:13 AM)

Again, why is this a horse race?  The establishment candidate with name recognition can't catch the new kid on the block.  What does that say about her electability? (isn't the margin in PA actually less than 9 points???)

White woman for change (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:15 AM)

Wondering when it will become clear to Clinton supporters the question is decided and time to ramp up for the general election.

And maybe also time for more pointless speculation about running mates. I think Richardson and Warner will be on the short list. My darkhorse pick (and also my preference) is Zinni. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Obama go with Rendell, however.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:15 AM)

I have the solution to the delegate problem...add more superdelegates.

Pat Huntington NY (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:15 AM)

Thanks for the up-date. Senator Obama spent his money with great strategical savvy, like a general. He fought hard in Pa., using all his ammunition, while baiting her into depleting hers. Barack says, 'it's not the battle, it's the war stupid'.

Obama '08

donna (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:15 AM)

Thanks for the update, you guys must have some pretty intense spreadsheets :)

Not much difference if you factor in the total numbers, but then again, that was expected.

Obama our best future.

Lisa, New Britain, CT YES WE CAN! (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:17 AM)

will you be letting the American people know the ACTUAL point spread in the PA primary???? it's not 10 points, guys....stop with the bias-driven-rounding-up....you guys are better than that...

sean, atl, ga (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:18 AM)

Where's media coverage of the trial starting this Friday?  My understanding is that Clinton had the largest fundraising event ever produced for a Senator and it also became a federal crime when Hillary Clinton's campaign hid the source and amount of Peter Paul's $1.2 million plus expenditures for Hillary Clinton's campaign.

Keith in PA (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:19 AM)

I can’t wait till we get up to the convention and all of the remaining supers vote for Hillary and she wins by a couple votes. It’ll be hilarious, especially when McCain gets a free ride to the White House. I mean, McCain would beat Obama too, it just wouldn’t be free.

Keep hitting each other though, it makes my day.

Dance, Puppets, Dance (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:25 AM)

The numbers mean nothing. Hillary has every right to run her campaign clear until the end. It is her right as a citizen of the USA. Every call for her to quit is absolute rubbish, and against what we should be standing for.
Just like the bumper sticker on my Front bumper reads. "Run Hillary Run".

RH Oregon (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:28 AM)

Hillary needed to net significantly more than she did to remain viable. She needed to spend most of the funds she had left, just to win a state she was heavily favored to win. Her campaign is now in its death throes and there is nothing now that can prevent it.

Ron Jeffers, Arizona Independent (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:28 AM)

the superdelegate count Clinton 262, Obama 238,

The only count that matters at the brokered convention!

H P Boston (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:28 AM)

I want to know about the primary voting. Fact: McCain has the Rep. nominee. What is to stop all Rep. from voting in the primary and voting for Clinton to insure that she is the one to run against McCain rather than Obama? My opinion if this is possible?? This also could explain the wide margin in Pennsylvania. We were just curious. Please enlighten us if this is possible.

Suzie Perez (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:29 AM)

My letter to the DNC this morning....

I was perfectly happy watching this primary process play out and getting the best nominee we can have to face the GOP attack machine in the fall but this has gotten completely out of control. The Clinton campaign announced today through ABC news that she is ahead in the popular vote. The only way to do this is to count Florida and Michigan. This is completely and utterly dishonest and unfair. You set the rules for Michigan and Florida and it is solely your responsibility to enforce them and not let people spin these results in there favor.I am not writing this letter as an Obama supporter,I would be just as angry if the tables were turned. How long are you willing to sit back in the shadows and watch this circus while your core base of support (like myself and most other Dems I know) become sickened by the growing reality we are going to lose this general election because the so-called leaders of the party we love and cherish do not have the back bone to step in and set things right? I think I will keep my $300 donation to the DNC for now. I have a sinking feeling that I am really going to need it when McCain takes another four years from us.

Mark, Seattle (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:30 AM)

So how many delegates will Obama net from North Carolina.  And popular vote.. Tell Hill, I say to enjoy the sunshine will she can... one day in a hundred.

Andress (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:30 AM)

So Hillary's super-duper-awesome-mega-victory was much ado about nothing. Obama will net more delegates and cancel out her popular vote numbers from Indiana and NC alone. Then we'll be exactly where we were before PA except with only a handful of delegates left.

The Clinton's think they own the Democratic party and are entitled to another Presidential term. The majority of voters disagree with their assumption.

Linda. Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:31 AM)

Since the crack staff at First Read is apparently never going to give you the GOP numbers from last night, I thought I would:

McCain:  72%  575,543
Paul:  15.9%  125,705
Huckabee:  11.4%  89,957

Why this should be important to you Democrats?  McCain only got half as many votes as Obama did.  The media doesn't report McCain's votes anymore since he already has the nomination, but you should be keeping your eye on his numbers in each state's primary.  They are trying to create suspense and keep you engaged in this campaign, but the truth is, McCain doesn't have a chance.  The Republicans just aren't showing up and they likely won't show up for the general.

P.S. Thank you to the 125,705 Pennsylvanians who showed some courage.  
 

Americans for a president that doesn't suck (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:33 AM)

You know, if Obama had not been on the ballot in any state so far, Hillary would be way ahead in the popular vote!  It would be a shutout!  Such is the logic of Hillary supporters.  Michigan should count even though Obama was not on the ballot.  Of course, had he been on the ballot, not one single solitary soul in that state would have voted for him.

Obama in 2008.  Integrity matters and the Clintons have none.  Paid those campaign debts yet Hillary?  Pay up deadbeat!

Sick of corruption, sick of the Clintons (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:33 AM)

What do  you mean by "Clinton will likely net more than that"?  Do you mean more than 9 delegates?  Or more than 16, and if so why?

Geoff in Brooklyn (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:33 AM)

IT SURE WAS NICE OF THE MEDIA, ABC, MSNBC, FOX NEWS, CNN ALL YOU COWARDS; TO STUMP FOR HILLARY.  YOUR DOING A MUCH BETTER JOB THAT BILL CLINTON!!


THANKS FOR YOUR SUPPORT

THE CLINTON MACHINE (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:34 AM)

Can someone at MSNBC please explain why the MSM is rounding the PA results to "55/45%" indicating a 10% difference?  The PA Department of State's unofficial numbers as of today, 04/23/08 are 54.3/45.7%, indicating an 8.6% difference.  Even with generally accepted rounding rules, it seems the reporting should be:  54/46% with a 9% difference.  Splitting hairs?  Yes.  Relevant though?  Yes!  First of all:  it is simply more aligned with the truth and secondly, there is a psychology factor to a "double-digit" versus "single-digit" win.  In my humble opinion, the truth should matter...  the facts should matter.

http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=12&ElectionID=27

Lance - SF (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:39 AM)

So she put herself 10 Million dollars in the hole just to pick up 9 delegates?  I suppose by the time IN and NC are done, her campaign will be about 30 Million in the red.   Way to go!

And by the way, according to the stats on the State of PA's website, she only one by 8.5%.... NOT 10%.

Cathi (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:41 AM)

ONE OF THE CRAZIEST ADN RIDICULOUS VOTING SYSTEM IS THIS SYSTEM;   ONLY IN THE USA YOU SEE   IT, WHY THEY DONT GOES JUST BY THE POPULAR VOTE?

ANYWAY, I am so glad that Hillary won, and it may help to some Obama’s supporters to shut up and let her fighting for what she thinks is the right thing to do.  

By the way, Obama looks so down lately, even he look angry but, but, I have to admit it, it keep his arrogance up.  I noticed last night, too arrogant and too selfish.. but hey, if it work for him… I am just happy for my HRC

latino-boy chicago (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:42 AM)

Obama spent 3 times more than Hillary in PA and still got his butt kicked.

He has a lot of explaining to do - LOSES CA, FL, OH, TX, NJ, NY and now PA.  

Democrats cannot win in November without OH, FL and PA.  And Obama cannot win those states.

Yes, we can.....

No, you can't.....

csh, IL (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:42 AM)

Hey Mr. Todd,

It is great.  I totally agree that a WIN is a WIN.  But it is not a double digit.  It is about 9% or less not exactly double digit. TIME has its accurate number from offical sites.  

There need to be a correction in your total vote update .

Glad to hear you this news !

Thanks Chuck !

Ken (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:42 AM)

Hillary can't run fast enough to catch up with Senator Obama, so why are we wasting precious time letting her hang in there and jeopardise our chances in November??  Obvoiusly she does not care about the party or the country; she and all her promised-a-post-buddies will do and say anything just to win the nomination.  What I don't understand is why the Democratic Party leaders are not showing some guts; who are they going to blame if this damages the party beyond repair?  Why isn't someone stepping up and putting an end to this dishonest and appalling travesty?

show some guts (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:43 AM)

It is amaze,  Obama spent over 10millions in campaign, spending three time more than Hillary and he lost by doble digits...  

Is obama taht good really?  yeahhh, but only among african AMerican voting 98% for him.  It show that his campaign is based mostly on AA community.

latino-boy chicago (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:45 AM)

It was never about the delegates. It's about the popular vote until Barack wins that. Then it's about the uncommitted superdeligates who face obliteration if they dare cross me.

Hillary (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:46 AM)

Again, why is this a horse race?  The establishment candidate with name recognition can't catch the new kid on the block.  What does that say about her electability? (isn't the margin in PA actually less than 9 points???)
White woman for change (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:15 AM

We need a better Operation Wimpy Whiner excuse than that.

jj (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:47 AM)

will you be letting the American people know the ACTUAL point spread in the PA primary???? it's not 10 points, guys....stop with the bias-driven-rounding-up....you guys are better than that...
sean, atl, ga (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:18 AM)


Excellent Operation Wimpy Whiner excuse!  Who said fractions don't count.

Obama '08 (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:49 AM)

Its not who has the most delegates when it is over, but who gets over the 2025 (or whatever) needed to win. Neither will have that number, that is why the superdelegates are there.Obamas supporters want the superdelegates to "reflect the will of the people" except of course where the people voted for Hilliary but the superdelegates voted for him (Kerry and Kennedy in Mass.)

Jim M. Hollywood Florida (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:52 AM)

Hey Mr. Todd,

It is great.  I totally agree that a WIN is a WIN.  But it is not a double digit.  It is about 9% or less not exactly double digit. TIME has its accurate number from offical sites.  

There need to be a correction in your total vote update .

Glad to hear you this news !

Thanks Chuck !
Ken (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:42 AM)

THANK YOU!  Operation Wimpy Whiners you're the best.  Everyone knows 9.6% isn't double digits.

Obama '08 (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:52 AM)

Americans want change, but it appears that more moderate or conservative people are only comfortable with change incrementally. Obama's candidacy, in itself, represents change. Add to that his message of redefining how Washington and government operates, and it may be too much of a change for some voters.
For Obama to succeed with these voters, he needs to really think, react, and respondto their worries and concerns, as they would, so that a "change" in their voting preference won't seem like such a big transition.
Younger voters, I believe, are adapt more easily and are more flexible in their thinking.

Chris Higham, Manasquan, NJ (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:52 AM)

PLEASE REVIEW AND ACCURATELY REPORT FINAL NUMBERS FOR THE PA PRIMARY.  IS IT AN 8, 9, OR 10 POINT DIFFERENCE?  THERE ARE DISCREPANCIES WHICH HAS OR WILL MANIPULATE VOTING, FUNDRAISING, ETC.

LET'S TRY OUR BEST TO BE FAIR...

DOC G (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:53 AM)

Women are never going to abandon Hillary.  If they're still with her after she has lied repeatedly and used karl Rove campaign tactics, they'll follow her to the gates of hell.  Barack needs to burnish his "tough guy" image and cut into Clinton's white male vote.  If he can do that, this charade will end.  Axelrod:  do you GET THAT?

The "No Duh" of the Day (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:54 AM)

Americans want change, but it appears that more moderate or conservative people are only comfortable with change incrementally. Obama's candidacy, in itself, represents change. Add to that his message of redefining how Washington and government operates, and it may be too much of a change for some voters.
For Obama to succeed with these voters, he needs to really think, react, and respondto their worries and concerns, as they would, so that a "change" in their voting preference won't seem like such a big transition.
Younger voters, I believe, are adapt more easily and are more flexible in their thinking.

Chris Higham, Manasquan, NJ (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 11:54 AM)

Americans, please be realistic and use your common sense.  I heard a lot of promises, a lot of wishfull thinkings from either of them, Obama and Clinton (well neither of them haven't said  these...yet: I will give you a house to live, I will give you a car to drive...)
Do you  think they will keep their words? or even if they intent to keep, do you think they have power to make their promises become true? be real people.
I don't believe a bit on them.
Vote for McCain, at least this guy has dignity and  enough courage to tell you the true that American are facing.

L. Nguyen. Allen, TX (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:36 PM)

Hillary needs to pack her bags and go home. People are viting for becuase they have good memeories about her husband. Wake up she is not Bill. She could put together health care when she took on the assignment as 1st Lady. How can anyone think she can put anything together as Pres. She is devisive. She represents status quo or worse. We need a fresh face. Obama is a fresh face.  

Mike Oviatt, Kaysville, Utah (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:36 PM)

Women should be truly embarrassed to be represented by a woman who is deemed 69% untrustworthy and 59% negative.  AND she gave a victory speech by asking for MONEY because she's BROKE!  What does that tell you LADIES?  Huuummm, if Sen. Clinton CAN NOT managed her campaign finances how the HELL do you expect HER to manage the Oval Office?   Are you all that desperate that you would stand by someone who is untrustworthy and non-credible?  That is truly amazing.  Women just don't get it obviously.  Wow...and to think women have come a long way, that is SURELY NOT THE CASE.

Women are just so gullible to the point they give their hard-earned money to a woman who can't even handle her husband AND her own campaign.  If this was Sen. Obama YOU BET your bottom dollar these very same women would be crying outrage and disgust!!!

What a crock of crap!  Single women and older white women sit around complaining about "NOT" being represented, they've been overlooked etc.,, but yet they sit up and wave their banner for a woman that has been nothing but a disgrace for all the lies and banter she's been spewing out since the start of her campaign. What did it for me is when she lied about Bosnia with her OWN daughter standing next to HER knowing that her mom was "lying" for political gain!  That tells me if Sen. Clinton can lie about something so trivial as her Bosnia trip when she did NOT have to, is a true proof of her character as a WOMAN.  If she can lie that easy about Bosnia, that tells me she will easily LIE her way through anything.  That's NOT a character of a Commander-In-Chief!!!   That's a sign of a sleazy politician in Washington, same oh same oh.  She had my respect up till that point.   I NO longer trust nor support her.  

How hypocritical is that?   These are the same Americans crying  the blues when they voted for Bush/Cheney TWICE!!!

Go figure.

Ellie B (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:36 PM)

Time to "shut her down" and start backing the next president of the United States of America - President Obama.

Truth, integrity and strength - Obama '08

Brian, Naples, Florida (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:39 PM)

Hillary has lost; and nothing good could come of her continuing.

Her only option has been this desperate, cloying, cynical drama of character assassination and cheap innuendo. She has turned this into a soap opera - a fiasco. Seriously, what's next - what depths could she sink to next because sinking as far as she has so far has not worked?

Douglas, Evanston, IL (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:39 PM)

Can somebody explain to me why people are voting for HRC, but yet acknowledge that she is running a negative campaign and that Obama will ultimately win?  To me, it defies logic. Am I missing something here?

Celia, Spring, TX (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:46 PM)

All theses Hillary supporters need to remember what their own camp has been saying "A win is a win". (Of course unless it is a state that Obama wins, then there is always an excuse why he won). So when Barack wins more pledge delegates, wins more states, and wins more of the popular vote, remember "A WIN IS A WIN". So I hope that same logic is applied when the primaries are all done. And who the hell are the Clinton's to change the rules. The winner is decided by the person with the most delegates, not popular vote. It's a crazy way to do it, but that is the rules.Even Howard Wolfson said in January "this is a race for delegates". And the media just let's them do it. Hillary is saying "It's okay to break the rules if it benefits you", what a great message to send to our kids. Also, everyone is talking how Barack can't win without these blue-colar voters. You know what she can't win without the African-American vote and young vote either. Based on the Clinton's camp rationale "b/c he didn't win them now he can't win them in November" Well that means she can't win 90% of the black vote and 65% of the youth vote. Now, as a intellegent, critically thinking person I know that not to be true, but it just shows how weak her arguments are.

DON'T LET THEM STEAL HOPE!!!!!

OBAMA '08

John Norman Santa Barbara, CA (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:47 PM)

Pat BuchKKKanan is a good guy. I like him.

Pat BuchKKKanan & Hillary '08!!

Sam, Dallas, TX (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:47 PM)

All the counting is not done in the Philly area

and they are over 50 % for Obama so her lead will dwindle when they count those in and some counties are only 97% counted and they are 60% for Obama

I think they really are all counted but the Gov Rendel is trying to give Hil one big day to celebrate.
Just my Opinion :)

Yea


Obama 08

Jeanie in Oregon (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:48 PM)

She acts like this was a hard fought victory, however, she was supposed to win. Why did'nt she win by 20 points as she was ahead by a month ago. The reason is people see her for what she is, a do anything, say anything, to get elected, politician. As far as Hillary's vast expirience goes, I can see her on day one of her presidency in the oval office calling on her experience to write thank you notes, and dealing with the china crisis, "oh what pattern should we have this time?"

Joe Hammer, Phoenix, Arizona (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:51 PM)

We need to call him Barack OBambi, because he is a total wus. What a girl!!!!!The repubs are going to laugh their butts off if he is our nominee.

j fl (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:52 PM)

The margin is not double digits..its like 8.5 - so why is the media still showing and saying 10  - and why are the people in PA complaining about voters fraud...here we go again...Be gone Hillary...

Deals, Brooklyn, NY (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:52 PM)

I find it ridiculous that people here are actually saying that Hillary somehow "closing the gap" or "winning".

She is behind in every single metric and will be at the end of the nominating process.  She claims she is doing it for the American people, but most of us know better...she is doing this for her own selfish ambitions.

She won this state by playing as dirty as she possibly could.  At this point she is perfectly willing to let McCain take the White House as long as Obama doesn't get it.  She and Bill are constantly planning, triangulating and scheming...

Rich, Pittsburgh PA (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:54 PM)

Hillary all the way! This grandmother wants a sharp, seasoned Washington veteran in charge. We need somebody who knows how business really gets done in DC. Not sure where all the animosity re the Clintons comes from. Let he who is without sin....... This country needs a woman in charge now!!!

Time for real change, Sarasota, FL (Sent Wednesday, April 23, 2008 1:56 PM)



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