Those white working-class voters...

Posted: Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:05 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC's AnaMaria Arumi
In the primaries (not caucuses, and excluding Michigan and Florida) so far this year, Clinton's lead among White voters with Household Incomes of less than $50,000 was in the middle of the pack of the states where she had an advantage over Obama. There are nine where she bested Obama by a bigger margin than in Pennsylvania and 13 where she won by narrower margins.

She had her greatest advantage in Arkansas (65 percentage points) and her narrowest advantage in New Mexico (2 points).

Obama had an advantage among whites who make less than $50,000 in Wisconsin, Illinois, Utah and Vermont.

WHITES UNDER 50K
	CLINTON	OBAMA
VT	36	61
IL	46	51
WI	48	50
UT	38	49
NM	49	47
CT	52	41
TX	58	41
MD	57	40
CA	50	39
NY	61	37
AZ	56	35
MO	60	35
VA	61	35
GA	62	35
MA	63	34
PA	66	33
RI	67	31
NH	47	31
DE	68	30
OH	69	28
LA	60	27
NJ	73	25
MS	68	24
AL	74	23
TN	69	22
SC	40	19
OK	72	19
AR	81	16

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Comments

Your story tells us that Stupid and uneducated people are for Hillary.....

I don't know if I would like that idea.....

I can just see Hillary......

"If you are uneducated, living in a trailer and sitting on your butt all day you need to vote for me".

Hillary Clinton
a first grader can spell my name!

jerry/corpus christi texas (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:11 PM)

Can we get the breakdown between left handers and right handers...

...just in case we want to put together a baseball team of working class whites and need to know who is available in the bullpen.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:13 PM)

Bravo Wisconsin, Illinois, Utah, and Vermont: way to show the rest of the nation that you're smarter than to fall for the Clintons' cynical mix of fear-mongering, subtle race-baiting and pandering.

Scott (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:13 PM)

Did Clinton's campaign just send this over and you posted it verbatim?

At what point does the media do it's job – you know, like it failed to do during Bush's entire term – and start calling out the fact that Clinton lost this nomination months ago and that her tactics of changing how the candidate is chosen are effectively her way of taking over the entire party and stealing the election from the candidate who beat her fair and square?

Sam, Muncie, Ind. (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:14 PM)

I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR OBAMA HE IS A RACIST LIAR.

patty,sd,ca (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:14 PM)

What??? Why is this a story??? Seems like someone was bored and decided to compile a list of bs stats. Don't you have anything better to report on???

SJB, SLC, UT (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:15 PM)

Why in the world do liberals continue to classify people by race, class, and gender. Matthews last night called white working class people 'residue', as in they haven't 'advanced' to the liberal-speak of the day. Not too much of elitist are you Chrissy? The biggest racists, sexists and elitists out there today are liberals.

Ross Henry, Dover NH (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:15 PM)

Looks to me that Sen. Obama is STILL in the lead in spite of how the low rent Clinton's are spinning it.

American Voter (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:16 PM)

HA!

We won the vote of White Voters With Household Incomes Under $50,000!

Another of the few metrics that work for us!

We won!
We won!
We won!
We won!

Now give us the nomination!

H. Rodham Clinton, B. Clinton, T. McAuliffe, H. Wolfson, M. Penn, H. Ickes - Washington, DC (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:17 PM)

Its funny how the further you go down the perverbial White broke,dumb people ladder the more they want to support the $109 million candidate... Go figure... I cant understand this thinking... Can one of you white broke, dumb people explain this to all of us thats puzzled about this.....

James Tn (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:17 PM)

Has the DNC came up with a good idea yet? Superdelegates, proportional allocation of delegates, killing off of the voters in Michigan and Florida, starting the campaign too soon, and ending it to late. Now they want to run the country? They can't even run an election.

SpareNews (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:18 PM)

These are people with who she has a lot of history...she starts out as a given for them. A lot of times, she has the Party establishment behind her with them. He has to get himself known, fight her malicious attacks, in some ways break through a racial "ceiling", fight the rumor mill (he's a Muslim, uh no, he doesn't salute the flag, uh no), and then once they open their minds to him, convince them on issues.

Yet he closes the gap when he doesn't face intractable voters for Clinton (who seem to overlook her every flaw).

It would be interesting (given your paragraph about The Front Loaded Calendar below) to see these ordered by date of primary. Of course there are many other factors as well. The presence of Party machinery support was mentioned by a poster yesterday (he mentioned DeStefano's support for Obama in New Haven CT really helping).

Interesting piece.

Lisa, New Britain, CT CT for Obama (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:18 PM)

DEMS UNITE, CLINTON AND OBAMA POLICIES ARE THE SAME, DON'T VOTE FOR MCCAIN JUST BECAUSE YOUR CANDIDATE DIDN'T GET THE NOMINATION ... WE DON'T NEED A BUSH 3RD TERM, LOOK AT GAS PRICES, THE WAR IN IRAQ, THE ECONOMY!

msnbc please post my comments instead of posting comments that only lead to further divisiveness among democrat!

Go Hillary! (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:19 PM)

The fact is that Obama is still winning. What point are Struuuugliiiiing to make?

Tee, Houston TX (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:20 PM)

The blue-collar workers tend to distrust anyone different from themselves, and buy into the fear & smear campaigns that bolster their beliefs.

TERRY, IN (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:20 PM)

Clinton wins white working class voters because of the Clinton brand.... they are familiar with her. In the general election they will have a choice between Bush's policies or Obama's.......... i think Obama sweeps.

Chuck K, Buffalo, NY (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:22 PM)

First thongs, now this sham of a statistic. Why do I call it a sham? Because if Obama is our nominee, his numbers with the white working classes will go up. Between the war, gas prices , and the sky rocketing prices at the grocery store , most people will vote for the party of change.

McCain stood in front of a crumbled factory yesterday, and told the sparse little crowd, that he won't do much about it!

Empty bellies, empty gas tanks, and emptier factories, make for strange bedfellows.

pleasant hills, pa. (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:22 PM)

Senator Clinton, take some advice from someone who knows:

The New England Patriots up until the Super Bowl - had an undefeated season going for them - a great accomplishment. They were picked to win the Super Bowl before their season even began. They were crowned the winners before a pass was ever completed back in September.

They were going to win it all. Remember that?

One problem - another team quietly put together a game plan on how to beat the Patriots. Still no one gave them a chance. But the Giants persisted. And along the way people started to take notice. And as everyone knows, they persevered and won it all.

The Patriots were outcoached and outmatched in every way.

But it’s not fair we all said in New England. Tom Brady v. Eli Manning? Give me a break. Eli didn’t deserve this. HE COULDN’T WIN!!! It’s just not fair!!!!!!

And now we have Obama v. Clinton. And you continue to say of Obama - HE CAN’T WIN!

Actually, what you’re really saying is - It’s just not fair.

Well, Barack Obama has put together a game plan, he has persisted, he has persevered. And in the end you will see that you were outcoached and outmatched in every way.

And just like Eli Manning, Barack Obama can win and will win.

Fair? Absolutely. Just like Eli Manning.Why? Because he fought for it and he earned it.

Sincerely,
Patriots Fan

Giants - Super Bowl Champions (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:25 PM)

These numbers can be misleading. How many white individuals making less than $50,000 are actually working as opposed to seniors who are on a fixed income. Clinton definitely has an advantage among seniors, but I don't buy that she has a huge advantage over working class whites, these numbers need to be better scrubbed.

Paul, Washingon DC (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:27 PM)

"Scew 'em" is what she said about these people in the 90's, and yet they're voting for her now. Proof that the media is not doing they're job. How was that not a bigger story?

Dave in AL (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:31 PM)

Think guys!! What I'm noticing is that Clinton is NOT increasing her advantage in this group, desipte all of her efforts, even in a state that's tailor made for her, like PA.

Austin, TX (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:32 PM)

This is a very dangerous measure of viability. Apparently only the white working class can empower a candidate. It is de-facto racism, even though I admit it lacks intent. Furthermore, I find it unlikely that the working class so abused by the incumbent republican administration will find common cause with Mccain.

brett (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:33 PM)

Face it Obama-ites, working class whites will never vote for an elitist. They aren't as stupid as you make them out to be.

Casey Starrs (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:33 PM)

I would like to hear more about the Paul V. Clinton case. It has been kept very quiet by the media. Trial begins tomorrow in California, I would like to see if this gets airplay in the media!!!!!!!

K of Missouri (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:34 PM)

The only numbers that count

Obama leads by 134 delegates overall: 1,731-1,597.
He also leads by 157 in the pledged count: 1,491-1,334.

Anything else is just mental gymnastics.

Vote with your head, vote for the economy, vote for jobs.

Vote Democratic 2008 -- don't let the corporations and their Republican stooges win again.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:34 PM)

Who lead among brown eyed women with a high school education?
Who lead among working men with red hair?

This is important with the general election only months away.

wayneTx (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:35 PM)

Notice the votes in WI, IL, and VT. When were those votes? Early in the primary process - before Obama was known to be a snob with a racist pastor and criminals/terrorists as neighbors.

Sal Gamboni, Weston, Ky (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:36 PM)

As a 35 year Democratic voter, Barack should just flat out tell the Super Delegates, if he's denied the nomination, that he'll just Walk & take his Overwhelming support & start an Independent party.With the colapse then of the Democrat party, the Clinton's could rejoice in having the Democratic Nomination.

I'd bet that Voter's all over America feel this way.There is No Leadership at the DNC as of now, because no 1 has the Ball's or whatever to tell Hillary & Bill " IT'S OVER" pack it in & do it quick.The longer this goes on, the more damage is done to the Democratic brand. As someone said, only an Asteroid striking Barack, does Hillary have Any chance.It aint gonna happen !

Don't wait on the MSM to bring Hillary's fault's onto the airwaves, there to caught up in the Race, Flag Pin, Wright,etc,etc,etc stories. It's always been up to the voter's to stay aware of the candidates.It's evident on MSNBC today as all the shows are Now Promoting the latest Clinton Math total's. The Clinton's have some kinda stranglehold on the MSM, anyone with an ounce of Common Sense knows that.

I will give Chuck Todd some credit however, as he said yesterday, there's No way Clinton can get the Delegate lead with Only 9 contest remaining.

We can continue to read post of Hillary still having some kinda chance from her band of Illiterates or just stop coming here to post. It's all NONSENSE from now till Hillary is told " IT'S OVER".

I just love how the MSM continues to push Race because of States that Barack loses, but the states he's already Won, Race was'nt even mentioned. The Establishment is very worried America, they see there Stranglehold slipping away & will do whatever it takes to try & keep You dumbdowned.

Oh, by the way, gas is $3.60 a gallon & Gun's & Religion have Nothing to with That. Am I Bitter, YOU DAUM RIGHT I'M BEYOND BITTER.

Rick,Ky (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:36 PM)

Okay, AnaMaria Arumi, you did the research....are you and your little friends going to suggest any conclusions you have reached as a result of this study? Do you think this suggests any possible similar outcomes in the General Election with Obama vs McCain? And, since the press is so mired in the cesspool of "what if"....how might the results have been different had Hillary Clinton been a black woman? Care to speculate on that "what if"??

Honestly, why is that you folks can't be like normal -- albeit bitter -- middle americans and just take a valium?

Celticfire, Erin, WI (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:36 PM)

Why can't we just be Americans???? I know it may be easier to have all of these classifications but as white woman who fits into your group I am voting for Obama because I believe he will bring change. I am so sick of the spin. We know who has won, why does everyone continue to spin her talking points. Why can't she pick up more AA votes or the younger voters or the new voters or the independants or the republican vote??? Please start asking those questions.

Please Please Please.

lori Chicago (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:38 PM)

Just a settin here chillin in my double wide, sucking down a beer and a shot waiting for my disability check to come next week. We got us a whiny beotch, a half & half, and a po'd grampy running for prez. How did we get so lucky!! Yes America, we has seen the enemy and it is us. Scuse me while I crack another brewski.

Phred, NH (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:39 PM)

I guess I am one of those older (white) working class women and I can not for the life of me understand what they are doing. Do you ladies have grandchildren? I do, and I don't want them to become "gun fodder" for endless wars in the middle east. McCain is a hawk. Hillary is even worse. She threatens full nuclear retaliation on any country that steps out of line. Do you not see that this attitude could set off world war III? Please ladies, do your homework, consider the issues and our proper place in the world. Don't be led astray by a blonde blue eyed war hawk, who has a cheery smile.
Older white woman for Obama

Bonnie (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:39 PM)

Patriots? Americans? What does that mean? Will, the media found a way to spin these words? I served this country in the military for 24 years. (And I am still younger than Barack Obama). I grew up in the south (northern VA). Never heard a racial slur or people openly talk down about someone else’s race. I was proud when I joined the Military...American was a great country and I was a Patriot. Now, for the last 8 years we have been raped financially as a country and continue to be....my comrades and I are in a War based on lies and greed. (We all know it). Yet, the one chance we have to reverse this all and heal America. We slowly destroy it, and NOW, we see where the true bigots are....they are afraid and they begin to surface; like coach roaches....AND most of them are in the MEDIA....Disguised as commentators....producers, editors....I wonder and ask myself...are they living in the same country, I am? DO their hatred for a person's skin color, blind them to the fact that the majority of Americans don't care about RACE.They just want a Leader...DO they not realized enough is enough...Is being a bigots more important than the survival of your country? ...If so do it on your own time and not used the MEDIA as an avenue to spread your hateful lies and innuendos to try and sways a peoples mind, to HATE. NO matter what we all know that HATE......is the root of all evil...not money...THE MEDIA hates Barack Obama and anyone that resembles him.....

MediaStats-Philly,PA (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:40 PM)

the fact remains that in following all sanctioned contests to this point Barack Obama has gained more of the vote and the attendant pledge delegates. Now, if, after the conclusion of the sanctioned primaries Clinton usurps his place then her nomination is justified. Otherwise, Obama is the rightful nominee. These "alternative" metrics are but desperate attempts to thwart the established system.

brett (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:40 PM)

brett (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:41 PM)

What a skewed piece of fluff. This is meaningless unless there's some context put to it. I imagine Clinton won heavily amongst people in her own family and people who Bill pardoned--but what does that mean?

Sue, Bloomington, IN (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:41 PM)

brett (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:41 PM)

Why does MSNBC pot comments like that by patty, sd, ca.

J. Richter (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:42 PM)

Let's talk coattails.

Two years after Gennifer Flowers' boyfriend became President, the Republicans took over the House. They had tried for 40 years to get control of the House. Paula Jones' boyfriend and his wife made it happen.

Last month, Democrat Bill Foster and Republican Jim Oberweis ran for the Republican Illinois House seat being vacated by Dennis Hastert. Foster asked Obama to campaign for him. Apparently, he forgot to ask Monica Lewinsky's boyfriends wife.

Foster won this long time Republican seat by a big margin.

Still, it is nice to see Hillary's supporters sending her their money. Not being in the White House any more, she cannot pardon terrorists and fugitive financiers in exchange for campaign donations. Plus, her supporters are enabling her to free up some funds to hire some more lawyers, in case anyone else decides to sue her for campaign finance fraud.

Obama in 2008. Integrity matters and the Clintons have none. Obama has integrity and coattails!

Sick of corruption, sick of the Clintons (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:42 PM)

To the moderator of this site - WHY DO YOU EVER LET PATTY POST ANYTHING! I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE BETTER MESSAGES OUT THERE SUPPROTING EITHER PERSON THAT HAVE NOT MADE THE BOARD SO THAT WE CAN READ THAT PATTY THINKS THAT OBAMA IS A RACIST. I CAN DO THAT TO - PATTY IS AN MORON! THERE I FEEL MUCH BETTER NOW! Please post

Ken, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:42 PM)

NO ONE CARES. How about you do an exit poll here in Indiana asking how many people can actually tolerate her negatives for the next 6 months and also of those people who said they can ask them how many of them would view Hillary's presidency as a co-presidency with William Jefferson Clinton. That’s the kind of statistics I'm looking for. I think the media should be honest with the American people and vet HRC. She has not been. Ask her the tough questions. People are being disillusioned that things will go back to how they were in the 90's this is impossible.
I’ve used the phrase, "Solutions to hoodwink the American people" in many of my post because that is what her campaign is doing. Especially when she says, "I know I like how things were in the 90's...during the Clinton Administration." Please media do you job and ask her how we will get back to those times because that is what the American people are expecting with her presidency, and I afraid she will fail miserably. We think GWB was upsetting wait until these Blue collar voters experience a Presidency of HRC and she doesn't come through on her solutions, or she doesn't improve NAFTA because her HUSBAND is whispering into her ear every night that NAFTA is good for the American people or at least good for the Clintons. "Shoot, I made 800,000 on speeches supporting NAFTA." Americans are so easily fooled. We let the media tell us that WE shouldn’t be BITTER. No way. Reporters, news anchors, and moderators make pretty good money and only feed us the news. So tell me why Blue collar America which is the engine that drives America is being brushed aside when come to the agenda in Washington. But still we SHOULDN’t be bitter??

But I guess we buy into the rhetoric of cars being available that will use less gas. Of course, if you can’t afford you house payments now there is no way you will be able to afford one of those cars in the NEXT 30 YEARS. I just find their rhetoric to be HILL(i)AR(y)ious. And we accuse Barack Obama for engaging in wishful thinking and hopeful politics. Please.

We owe it to the American people to be honest and post this.

Julius, Terre Haute (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:42 PM)

White working class votes will never ever be for Wright-loving Obama.

The Truth Hurts (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:42 PM)

I didn't know that this country was made up 100% of white working class people who earn under 50,000. I thought the US was represented by all kinds and levels of people. So what is the point of this information?

Chuck: you have already stated the pledged delegate race is over (Obama wins) and also that it is impossible for Hillary to win the popular vote. That regardless of what happens in Indiana Hillary would have to win NC by a good size margin to even consider staying in the race (for whatever reason no one knows) and that will not happen. So what is the point of all these threads?

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:44 PM)

Exactly why should those of us not white, working class voters should care? Your coverage manages to ignore female voters, minority voters, young voters, etc. Why not do more coverage for voters? Why is Clinton focused on a group of people who'd vote GOP if the package was pretty enough?

faboo mama (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:03 PM)

For 40 years, Indiana's presidential primary has been an afterthought, staged long after other states had determined each party's nominee. This year, it's critical to the aspirations of both Clinton and Obama.

As such, the candidates need to engage Indiana voters and one another in a forum that stretches beyond glossy TV commercials, showy campaign stops and rote speeches delivered in city after city.

In short, the candidates need to meet for a debate in Indiana in the next few days.

Why another debate toward the end of an exhausting campaign? For starters, the last debate, in Pennsylvania, was heavily criticized for delving into side issues rather than centering on topics such as the economy, health care and foreign policy. Well, then, let's have a debate here that digs into the many serious issues facing the nation and this state. How, for example, do the candidates reconcile increasing taxes during a possible recession? How would they fulfill their pledge to pull troops out of Iraq in a matter of months if the Iraqi government were to collapse or terrorist organizations were to set up training bases there?

It's true that these questions and others have been addressed at various points in a long campaign. But voters tend to pay more attention to candidates' positions when their own primary is imminent. Most voters in Indiana have forgotten what was said in Iowa four months ago.

A debate planned for North Carolina, which also holds its primary on May 6, fell apart this week after the Obama campaign backed out. The senator's loss in Pennsylvania should prompt his advisers to reconsider whether this is the right time to disengage.

The Clinton campaign already has accepted an invitation issued by the Indiana Debate Commission, along with its partners CNN and PBS, to stage in a debate here. (The Debate Commission represents various civic and media organizations, including The Star. Star Editor Dennis Ryerson is vice chairman of the commission.)

John Doe (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:03 PM)

I'm feeling as though the media is giving more importance to old, poor, white, uneducated voters than to other populations. Since when did old, poor, white, uneducated voters become the most important voters in the Democratic Party? (Probably when the Clinton spin machine said so, right?)

The truth is Obama is winning other populations that Clinton may not win, too. Obama is winning young white voters, African-American voters and wealthy white liberal voters. Money-wise, it would seem the latter are more important to the Democratic Party than old, poor, white uneducated folks. I hate to be so crass, but in keeping with stories like this one in First Read, why should an old, poor, white uneducated person be given the prime responsibility for the direction of the Democratic Party? Don't we want America to be rich again? Don't we want America to be a thought leader in the world? Don't we want America to include everyone? Sheesh.

Cindy Lou, TX (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:09 PM)

Chuck...I have a great idea: Why don't you post your salary and all the salaries of the MSNBC commentatators for all to see; And after you've done that; you tell us common folk how many times you have gone to the politicos to get your kids into fancy ivy league schools. You sir and your minions are totally out of touch with the American Public. The so called fourth estate who used to be the last refuge and defender of the working class have cost this country lives and treasure. You are responsible for the devestating war, the deaths of our children, and the state of the ecconomy by not "vetting" the current administration 6 years ago. And now, you continue your spin for McSame and Clinton. This latest post by the MISANDRIST AnaMarie is your latest example that should never have seen the light of day. But then again neither will this post.

Ron Tempe, AZ (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:10 PM)

Obama did not win by much in his home state with the working whites.

I don't see him winning in November. I don't want to vote for McCain but I will over Obama.

Read Obama's books and you will see several statments just like this: "I FOUND A SOLACE IN NURSING A PERVASIVE SENSE OF GRIEVANCE & ANOMOSITY AGAINST MY MOTHER'S RACE." This is from "Dreams of My Father" There are several quotes that send cold chill down my spine.

After reading Obams's books I knew why he stayed in Rev. Wright's flock. Obama and Wright are right in sync on anti-white sentiments.

God Bless America

Obama just doesn't measure up. (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:12 PM)

To Jerry in TX
YOU ARE DISGUSTING. YOU SPEW YOUR MESSAGE OF SHAME. IF I WERE OBAMA I WOULD BE ASHAMED AND EMBARRASSED TO HAVE YOU AS A SUPPORTER.YOU NEED TO GROW UP!!!!!

KATHY (Sent Thursday, April 24, 2008 2:12 PM)

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