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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Hillary calls for Lincoln-Douglas debates

Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2008 11:26 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: , ,

From NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli and Athena Jones
SOUTH BEND, IN -- Clinton yesterday threw a curveball in her latest pitch to get Obama to debate her before the May 6 primary here, calling for a Lincoln-Douglas style meeting that would have the two go head-to-head without a moderator.

Standing on a platform above home plate at South Bend’s minor league ballpark, Clinton noted that Obama partisans “complained a little bit about the tough questions” during the April 16 debate in Philadelphia, and also “complained about the moderators.” She also alleged that the Obama camp had “turned down every debate that has been offered.”

“I’m offering Sen. Obama a chance to debate me one-on-one, no moderators,” she said. “Just the two of us, going for 90 minutes, asking an answering questions.”

She said such a meeting would be a throwback to the debates of Lincoln and Douglas in neighboring Illinois 150 years ago, when the two met seven times. She also said Indiana deserved such a forum, having “wandered in the wilderness of American politics for 40 years,” the last time the state mattered in presidential primary politics. “Who knows we might even carry Indiana in the fall if we start with a good debate right here,” she added.

“We’ve had four debates between Sen. Obama and myself -- that’s all we’ve had since this whole campaign has gone on,” she said. “I think that would be good for the Democratic Party, it would be great for democracy, and it would be great for Indiana.”

Just before Clinton made that challenge, however, Obama told Fox News Sunday that he would not take part in any further debates before two-state showdown in North Carolina and Indiana on May 6.

In addition, Obama chief strategist David Axelrod gave NBC/NJ this response to Clinton's challenge. "I think if Lincoln-Douglas had debated 21 times, I don't think there would be much appetite for another Lincoln-Douglas debate."

Clinton was joined on the resplendent afternoon yesterday by Sen. Evan Bayh and former Indiana Gov. Joe Kernan, who handed her a South Bend Silver Hawks jersey and a baseball bat manufactured in nearby Valparaiso. Clinton, brandishing the bat in her left hand, later labored to work some baseball lingo into her opening remarks.

“We’re gonna hit some of those balls out of this stadium and out of our country stadium because we’re gonna go to bat and fix America together,” she said. “We’re gonna go fight for America, we’re gonna round the bases, we’re gonna score a lot of runs, and we’re gonna feel really good about the home team, namely the American team -- the team we’re all a part of.”

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"We’re gonna hit some of those balls out of this stadium........ we’re gonna feel really good about the home team, namely the American team -- "

could a statenebt be any more pandering?

I also agree there would not be more appetite if lincoln debated douglas 21 times..... but  would doublas still be seeking free air time to push his defeated case?

I personally would rather have the opportunity to see the candidates in person than in ANY televised exposure.....
THERE IS NO NEED TO DEBATE AGAIN HILLARY:

THERE HAVE BEEN 21 DEBATES AND I THINK THATS ENOUGH. WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO IS JUST AS SILLY AS YOUR CAMPAIGN. EVERYONE KNOWS WHERE YOU STAND AND OBAMA STANDS AND I HOPE HE SAYS NO.

YOU KNOW YOUR BEHIND AND NOTHING IS GOING TO CHANGE THAT WHAT SO EVER. WHY SHOULD HE? HE ISNT RUNNING SCARED FROM YOU HILLARY I THINK ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

PLAY YOUR CRAZY GAMES HILLARY YOU WILL BE THERE ALONE AND NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU THINK ANYMORE.

GO OBAMA
Obama does not need Hillary Clinton to manage his campaign.

Obama has been criticized for not doing well enough among "Reagan Democrats." How many of the "Reagan Democrats" are actually , as we in Alabama might put it, "Wallace Democrats"?

Is it possible for Senator Clinton to win a majority of valid elected delegates?

If Hillary Clinton was to win the Democratic nomination with a majority of valid elected delegates, she would have a reasonable chance of winning the general election. If she won the nomination any other way, well, remember the Titanic?
Was there not a debate set for around now that Clinton dropped out of a few weeks back?

...and isn't this the exact same rhetoric she used for Wisconson?
Obama has the funds to get his message to the people of Indiana and North Carolina on the ground.  Hillary doesn't. Hence, she wants more free "air time".

Forget it, Hillary.  You reek of desperation.
... tho not necessarily an Obamite, Barrack answered  well this a.m. on a 'conservative' program. He is going to be with 'the people' until the North Carolina/Indiana primaries. There have been enough debates, there also has been way too much 'mud' slung.

BTW, Howard Dean was a breath of fresh air this morning... the DNC is in great hands!!
Yeah that would be a great idea....... for Clinton. We all know Clinton has no problem attacking Obama on any and everything no matter how irrelevant.  She also knows that Obama can't ask the tough questions that any objective moderator would ask because he is running a clean campaign. The only people that don't see through this is Clinton supporters..... and I don't understand what it would take to get them to realize their candidate is a two faced lying ..........
-- Clinton yesterday threw a curveball in her latest pitch to get Obama to debate her before the May 6 primary here, calling for a Lincoln-Douglas style meeting that would have the two go head-to-head without a moderator.

-First Read

When she was running for the senate in New York, as the front runner, she refused to debate her opponent.

When she was challenged for her senate seat on the basis of her vote which took our nation to war in Iraq, she again refused to debate her opponent.

Now she will accust Obama for being weak, and blah blah blah. She is a hypocrite.

Court confirms Hillary will go to trial...The first lawsuit to haul a President and a Senator into Court for defrauding the Senator's largest donor as part of a conspiracy to illegally win and keep a US Senate seat will begin discovery in May, 2008 as it proceeds to trial as confirmed by the California Supreme Court...

This woman has no scruples, besides Bosnia, NAFTA, etc.  I guess all her supporters don't care about honesty...
we do not need to see these two debate again. anyone who's been alive the last 15 months knows how each of them are going to answer the questions.
I am so tired of the censorship that goes on on your message boards --what are you afraid of ? It absolutely galls me the lack of spine the ppl who work for our MSM outlets have.
after 21 debates and much griping from both sides about the moderators, I think the American people have seen enough debates to form an opinion.

Everybody knows Hillary is just desperate to cover up her lack of skills as a presidential contender to try and goad Obama into a street fight, which is the only way a Clinton can fight anyway.

I see another one of Hillary Clinton's money bundlers was convicted Friday in Corpus Christi on Money laundering charges.

Hillary Clinton
A liar for all seasons
Tim Russert said, "The candidate who is way behind calls for a Lincoln-Douglas Debate...act of desperation."  They never get to issues in debates, just trashing each other. Besides...they debated 22 times already. Enough!
the Clintons are playing games with the American people. They lack honesty and sincerity. Americans have seen 21 debates, and they are intelligent enough to make up their minds.
hillary is such a tool! she just panders to whatever wind blows her towards the white house. she has no morals, no ethics. the sleaziest of the sleaze.
The leader gets to determine when and if there are debates. The circus clown and her freak show are SOL. People are ready for this to end. Any real Democrat is ready to get on to the General Election. Hillary really needs to consider whether she is a Democrat or a Republican. More and more she sounds like George Bush and Karl Rove. Perhaps she is considering the party move. Good luck and good riddance.
Hillary wants a slug fest. Barack being a man, should he rip her throat out, (as it is sooo ripe for a ripping), with all of her old, and new scandals, he would not emerge victorious, but looking like a mean spiritedness pig mistreating a woman. His position in a brawl with Hillary, which is what she wants to make another debate, is a lose, lose situation. If he does'nt go after her, as she is counting on, (being fully aware of his dilemma), she will accuse him of being weak.

She is well aware of his precarious position, and only wants to score more underhanded political points.
Well, The monster wants, but it ain't going to happen! Clinton has nothing to debate! Being a coat tail hanger makes one think, with out those clowns behind her writing racial hits, What would "more like Hollow and shallow"" the lunatic be thinking? Give it a brake Billary """its all over, turn out the lights!
I hear that Hillary is going to Guam she's going to tell the natives how to climb palm trees and show them how to bring down coconuts just like she did when she was first lady...We need a comprehensive list of past experiences on both canidates...Hillary has so many skeletons in her closet it's unbelievable including meeting with and inviting Jeremy Wright to the White House...Failed Health Plan where she basically said she would kill anyone who opposed her...Lets just get a list of facts on each canidate and get it over with...instead of waiting for that time when Obama played basketball with Wilt Chamberlin the great womanizer which of course means Obama did the same thing and believed the same way as Chamberlin...Lets just get to the facts so we can make the right decision...I guess issues don't divide.  
April 27, 2008
Arizona Superdelegate Charlene Fernandez Endorses Barack Obama for President

PHOENIX, AZ — Today newly elected Arizona Democratic Party First Vice Chairwoman and Superdelegate Charlene Fernandez endorsed Senator Barack Obama for president.

Keep them coming...
ENOUGH DEBATES ALREADY
Hillary needs the FREE AIR TIME
Obama wanted a debate in North Carolina and SHE wouldn't do it...you dont' get anymore DO OVERS
Your whole campaign has been a series of MISTAKES.
And you keep moving the GOAL POST.
Hillary thinks that ONLY SOME STATES COUNT...
THAT'S George Bush's approach to being president of the USA...ONLY SOME PEOPLE COUNT.
OBAMA THINKS EVERYONE AND EVERY STATE COUNT
HE WANTS TO BE PRESIDFENT OF THE WHOLE UNTIED STATES OF AMERICA
OBAMA/WEBB 08
This is politics...on both sides.  
Reasons Clinton wants to debate Obama:
1. She's better in that forum, so why not.
2. She's behind, the status quo doesn't work for her.
3. She needs a game-changing event, and a debate offers at least the chance of one.  
Reasons Obama doesn't want to debate Clinton:
1. He's not as good in that forum, so why would he.
2. He's ahead.  The status quo is fine.  Why put himself in a side-by-side situation with Clinton that gives her an opportunity to look better.
3. He needs to avoid situations that give Clinton an opening to change the narrative.  Without a debate, she has to wait for him to make a MAJOR mistake.  Absent a debate, he's more in control of his own narrative.  
This is politics.  Both camps will do what benefits them the most, until forced to go against their own interests.  
HRC....NO....WE KNOW YOU ARE BEHIND[WE CAN DO MATH] WE KNOW YOU ARE IN DEBT AND NEED THE FREE AIR TIME, BUT ANOTHER DEBATE!NO NO NO. THE ONLY DEBATE I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO IS BETWEEN OBAMA AND MCBUSH. STOP NOW YOU AND BILL ARE LOOKING DESPARATE AND MEAN. I KNOW THAT CLASS STYLE AND INTEGRITY ARE NOT YOUR STRONG POINTS BUT PLEEEESE TRY TO SHOW SOME.
It's nice that Clinton wants to suggest a forum that is not encumbered by moderators with agendas, however I think Clinton would actually have a tougher time with the L-D style debate than Obama.  
Hillary is just pathetic to 14.4 million americans..... Its not going to happen for the debates... Obama doesnt need to...
I saw the Chris Wallace interview and was more pleased with the tone and phrasing of the questions than I was with George S and Charles Gibson.

Occasionally, even Fox has to get one right, and today they did.  
Here comes the CIRCUS about debates, Debating over debates. Everyone can moderate from their own homes for the future debates.Completed the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the debates.
Boycott HRC....That's what I've been hearing in my neck of the woods.
Obama said that the "real" issues are not being discussed,  just a lot of bickering and what not.  Wouldn't a debate between the two without moderators be the perfect opportunity to do just that, or is he afraid that he's going to lose even more ground.  Possibly proove even more that perhaps he is not the right candidate.
Boy is she living in the past...those debates were about Slave vs. Free...I thought those issues where solved... or....could it be....
She is admitting that Obama is the next President of the United States...It's all over!!!  Obama has won!!!!
Go OBAMA!!!!
Desperate times call for desperate measures. She is desperate, but is too late. She can not be counted on to behave herself in public and she can not get cheap publicity and airtime. A leader who can't bring the people to her side and does not know how to manage her finances will have questions marks all over her.
Hillary:

Lets have a ninety minute debate on the Peter Paul / Clinton Fraud Trial.

It should have been in PA since Ed Rendell is part of the fraud trial.  

Since the media will not cover the fraud trial as noted on the Internet why not debate it
I don't blame Obama for not wanting to debate right now. Enough is enough already. I used to be fairly neutral but I'm so sick of the Clinton's now. I can't even stand to listen to them now. Especially Bill, he's a few sandwiches short of a full picnic.
Now Sniper fire storyteller Hillary can't count either....it's been TWENTY-ONE (21) in-house DEBATES!!!!!
Sorry Hillary, but it is very clear that all you really want is some free air time.  NO MORE IN-PARTY DEBATES!!!!

........PS, pay your outstanding bills to all those little Mom and Pop venders that you have been stiffing all over the country.  Your extremely bad fiscal mamangement speaks volumes about your bad expereince and inability to lead.
No Debate. It's over!
Pathetic! This is Senator Clinton using petty rethoric to score points. When is this lady going to go home and bake cookies or become a human being again. I am so SICK of her.I can't stand to watch her anymore.
GIVE IT UP HILLARY IT IS OVER, I AM TIRED OF THE DEBATES THEY ARE BORING, AND WHY DO YOU SHAKE YOUR HEAD UP AND DOWN AFTER YOU MAKE A POINT ABOUT SOMETHING? YOU LOOK LIKE A BOBBLE HEAD DOLL.
There is no need for another debate, with or without moderators.  It would be just a rehash of all that we have heard so far in previous debates from both candidates.  What I think Hillary's intent is, is to ambush Obama with more of her lies, innuendo and her hateful rhetoric.  Who wants to hear anymore of her crap?  Not me.  Somebody needs to put a sock in her mouth and shut her up.  
Why should the lion fight the mouse, under any circumstances?
BRING IT ON OBAMA !
1) There is no need to have another debate. The media doesn't seem to know how to handle them.

2) Senator Obama is ahead in every measure that counts, he doesn't need to do another debate. He can spend his time more effectively speaking to more and more voters on the ground.

3) Senator Clinton has been caught Push Polling in North Carolina testing out attacks on Senator Obama. That doen't indicate that her behavior has changed. So he has to consistently define himself to counter those upcoming attacks - not allow her to monopolize his time preparing for a yet another debate.

4) He has some fundraising to do in conjunction with the DNC and a massive Voter Registration push for the party.  He has no time to allocate to debating Sen Clinton.

5) He will actually be running against John McCain, I say he needs to spend 80% of his time focusing on him and the remainder on other things and including Senator Clinton.
Hillary dragged the race into the gutter.  Now she wants to pretend she's on a par with Lincoln or Douglas.  I'm not buying it, Hillary.  I hope that Indiana and North Carolina voters won't be fooled by shots and beers and going out back of the house to learn how to shoot.   That is not who she is.  The kitchen sink strategy is who she is.  Saying anything to get elected (including lies like Bosnia that she hopes you won't catch), are who she is.
Hillary should debate Bill - maybe they can get a few things straight, like Bosnia, or who played the race card, or if the Iraq war is a good idea or not.
Contrary to what Obama says,to me,it appears he is ducking Senator Clinton's challenge of a debate without moderators.  He knows she would chew him up and spit him out.  If you Obama supporters think otherwise, then I would encourage you to get your candidate to accept Senator Clinton's challenge.  After all, you can't "duck out" when you are afraid your competitor is going to bring up all the skeletons in your closet.  If you are not strong enough to deal with those things, then you are not strong enough to be POTUS.
Since Bill Clinton has taken a tremendous amount of money from lobbist and Hillary campign implies that a vote for Hillary will be a two for one proposition would place the American government in the position of having the biggest and most powerful lobbist in the history of the US governement in the form of the formal president unvetted access to the president and seat of government.
Well, I'll just say this, the Clinton spin machine deserves some credit for their inventiveness, LOL. I mean, I wake up every morning wondering what the headline will be on that day. What's next? HILLARY CALLS FOR WILLIAM TELL DEBATE? You know, it goes something like this: Hillary Clinton and friends (Stephanopoulos et co) gather with crossbows and try to shoot an apple off the head of senator Obama. Oh, but wait, we had that already, that was the ABC debate. With all due respect for Senator Clinton, if she was sincerely interested in "real issues," I think ample opportunity has been offered her and the MSM, to raise and address "real issues." What the latest debate has revealed instead is that the Senator and her friends on ABC, have been thriving on besmearing the Senator's political opponent through innuendo. Both by her unwillingness to make a stand for what's right to that regard, and her opportunistic partaking in the innuendo, the senator has proven herself less than honorable. Furthermore, I have yet to hear her say anything she has not already said, ten or twenty times already in one of the many previous debates. I sincerely believe that those debates have been reflecting poorly on her character and done her more harm than good, overall. So why would Senator Clinton want to subject herself to more of the same is unclear to me. I think people have some fairly good idea of who she is by now. Her reputation has been dealt some serious blow (I neither like nor trust what she has become - and it breaks my heart) and I don't believe that any more debates is going to change any of that at this point. Just my 2 cents.
Where is the commentary on the Jeremiah Wright interview on PBS?  I notice all major newscasts over the air and the internet are ignoring it.  I wonder why.  Is it because there were no gotcha moments to run away with?  

It's a sad day when MSM totally ignores an important interview of a man they continuously vilified in the media, who has now cleared his name and reputation with many.  Everyone, First Read included, can take note of how real journalism is conducted.  
Since Obama has so much baggage that seems to come up when he doesn't have a script, he'd better stick to pre written speeches.  He might actually say what he thinks inadvertantly.
Hillary,

Here is a curveball for you:

Have a 90 minute debate on the Peter Paul/Clinton Fraud Trial.  Especially since Ed Rendell appears to be very involved in the trial.

As reported on the Internet the news medial WILL NOT report on the trial so this would be the only way voters would be aware of it.

This is my second post concerning a debate.  I'll bet MSNBC won't post it.
Please no more debates! We have had 21 debates!!!!!
Obama offered the additional debate date of April 19, it was turned down. I am tired of the media hype.  I am tired of Hillary's remark about choosing pastors. Remember you can choose you husband too. Ayer? the man now a college professor, not in prison for a  terrorist plot. I associate with republicans, it does not make me one.  What I want to know  what Obama, Clinton and McCain  going to do about the high cost of gas-it's killing our family budget. Economy!!! As far as healthcare, if I can't buy it now, I cannot afford to have my wages garnished like Hillary wants.
When are our troops coming home.  People must want freedom for themselves. They can't have clerics and others telling them what to do. Finally, As far as MI, and FL they were told the vote would not count is they moved the their primary, They moved the primaries anyway. Don't count the votes. Both Hillary and Obama agreed to this.  Rules are rules.  If we bend the rules just so individuals can count more votes, why have rules in the first place. Have a nationwide primary instead.  Who wins is the nominee.


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