ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Delegate fight: The popular vote

Posted: Monday, May 05, 2008 9:13 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: ,

In a New York Times op-ed, election analyst Rhodes Cook looks at how Clinton could catch Obama in the popular vote without counting FL and MI (and also not counting some of the caucus states). It's not easy but it means running up some HUGE margins in West Virginia and Kentucky, as well as pulling an upset in North Carolina.

Take a look at the list of undeclared superdelegates in California. The list is long, despite the fact Clinton won the state handily. "Clinton, stung last week by the defection of a prominent superdelegate, could lose the backing of more of these Democratic Party leaders and elected officials if she fails to make significant gains in the remaining month of presidential nominating contests, several California superdelegates said this weekend. Two of the five superdelegates aligned with Clinton who spoke at the annual California Democratic Convention here said they would reconsider their support if rival Barack Obama maintained his lead in elected delegates and the popular vote after the last contests on June 3,” the Los Angeles Times reports.

“Christopher Stampolis of Santa Clara, a superdelegate who endorsed Clinton after the Iowa caucuses, said that he remained in the New York senator's camp but that his commitment expired with the end of the primaries. ‘When it's done, all of us, whether we're committed or not, we're going to take a look’ at the final eight contests, said Stampolis, who until recently worked in external relations for a Bay Area environmental firm. ‘Our job is to represent the constituents who trusted us to win the White House.’”

“Garry Shay, a Los Angeles attorney, said that if Clinton remained about 150 pledged delegates behind Obama, the current estimated margin, he would have to ‘reassess the entirety of the situation.’ ‘It doesn't mandate me switching,’ he said, ‘but it does mandate me reconsidering.’”

Bloomberg's Al Hunt looks at Obama's desperate need for a substantial win with the world watching; he really hasn't had one since February.

Huffington Post’s Tom Edsall looks at Clinton's "nuclear" option when it comes to the delegates -- and that's forcing a seating of Florida and Michigan at the May 31 DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting. But Edsall notes she will only have a sympathetic hearing at this meeting if she continues on a primary roll. 

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Time to take the high road.
Obama calls people in Pennsylvania "bitter"
Hillary goes on O'Reily and calls Americans "stupid"

Comments like that guarantee John McCain in the White House in November.

I hope Hillary can lose the popular vote and delegates but still get the nomination. Denver will know what the term "Global Warming" is all about after the Obama folks riot in the streets and burn the town down.
I don't see how Obama will be able to overcome his impending loss in the popular vote as well as his loss in 7 of the 10 largest US states, including the key swing states of FL, PA, MI and OH. The non-representative caucus state wins which will go red in November are not only ademocratic, they are plagued with serious charges of malfeasance on the part of Obama's campaign (see the recent MyDD.com post of "Pacific John" as regards the El Paso, TX caucus to see what I'm talking about here.

And I haven't even mentioned national security or Obama's legion of deleterious associations and bakers. Please see the linked website for me to find out more in a YouTube video which is 'blowing up' by the minute (over 3,000 views in one day).

Obama is not fit to be President, at least not in 2008. That is the heart of the matter.

Paul F. Villarreal
VillarrealSports.com
If Rev. Wright got a nickel for every time he has been mentioned on MSNBC over the past 72 hours he could buy a couple of countries and an ocean or two.  MSNBC has supplanted Sean Hannity with their Wright obsession.  Move on folks.
If the DNC seats Michigan and Florida, and favors Clinton in the number of delegates awarded, they can forget ever trying to enforce any rules ever.

When will anyone ask Clinton about the agreement she signed that these states would not be counted?
"Bloomberg's Al Hunt looks at Obama's desperate need for a substantial win with the world watching; he really hasn't had one since February."

I guess Mississippi doesn't count, along with 46 other states and territories huh?
‘When it's done, all of us, whether we're committed or not, we're going to take a look’ at the final eight contests, said Stampolis'

I suppose none of the other contests matter, just the final eight? clinton can't be shoved down the voter’s throat, make clinton the illegitimate winner and see what happens in the general election  
In March, Obama won Mississippi by 24 points, Wyoming by 23 points, and Vermont by 20. Are those not substantial wins?
Hunt says no substantial wins for Obama since February?  He's won Texas caucuses (and total delegates), Vermont, Mississippi, Wyoming, and Guam.  Overall, he won more pledged delegates than Clinton in March, and has expanded his overall lead since February.
"Huffington Post’s Tom Edsall looks at Clinton's "nuclear" option when it comes to the delegates -- and that's forcing a seating of Florida and Michigan at the May 31 DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee meeting."
*******************************************************

This is just sad.  If the Clintons were to take this tack in their campaign, it will create a fault line in the Democratic party - not to mention bolstering GOP talking points.

I can hear the RNC ad now: "The 'Democrat' candidate can't even hold their own party together - not to mention America."

Ugh.

http://thepajamapundit.com/
I sure hope my fellow Califorians won't put up with a mass defection of CA supers for Clinton.  I'll be watching my supers closely to see if they support the panderer from NY and if they do they won't be getting my vote in June or November.

Go Obama!
And this is the part of the Bloomberg article I particularly agree with, the closing...

"The test, though, is how Obama opposes it these next several days. If he coolly and dispassionately discourses on the impracticality of this inane idea, he'll get some nice editorials and lose Indiana; in a one-sided demagoguery, the panderers win.

The other possibility is that he seizes the moment and shows how this is a case of politicians deceiving voters for their own personal gain; this proposal wouldn't only lead to a loss of jobs but a loss of intellectual integrity for its advocates. He may still lose Indiana, but a message like that would reinvigorate his campaign."

Defining moment for both campaigns...superdelegates this one's for you.  Isn't this superdelegate judgment versus pandering to the people.  This precise issue...Hillary "pander to the people" Clinton.  Not what this country needs and many in your Democratic base are watching you.  A lot of us have never abandoned you before, I assure you, if Clinton is the Democratic party, then its not the party for us.
EVERYONE SHOULD LOOK at the polls more closely.  Rasmussen AND Gallup have Obama trending up and Clinton trending down for several days running now.  And, Obama is trending up vs. McCain, too.  And, that data includes polling from 3 or 4 days ago, before Obama began to turn the corner ..... so the current snapshot is likely even rosier than it appears in the tracking polls.  This means even a split decision Tuesday will be followed by Obama gains and Clinton losses.  And, does anyone really give Hillary a chance in NC?  Undecideds are unlike to break for her there as heavily as PA because at least 1/3 of the undecideds are black.  It'll be Obama by 8 in NC and probably a narrow Clinton win in IN -- 4- 6 points.
He really hasn't had a win since February...lol,are you kidding me, hmmmm, lets take a look at how many Primaries since February, my count is 1, and Guam, which OBAMA DID WIN, you guys are so hungry for a story, you really try to play us Americans as foolish and uninformed.
Al Hunt is a crappy newspaper man.
Paul V:

And I haven't even mentioned national security or Obama's legion of deleterious associations and bakers.

Beware the day-old buns!
In a New York Times op-ed, election analyst Rhodes Cook looks at how Clinton could catch Obama in the popular vote without counting FL and MI (and also not counting some of the caucus states). It's not easy but it means running up some HUGE margins in West Virginia and Kentucky, as well as pulling an upset in North Carolina.

******************************************************

Pretzel math, and a path to the nomination through a maze, is more like it.

Vote for Hillary to save the Democratic Party. Vote for Obama to give the keys to the GOP.
The supers are smarter and more attentive than the electorate at large. They are clearly irritated at Hillary's tobacco chewing, NASCAR watching, gas tax spectacle and they are preparing to hand Obama the nomination shortly.

Hillary's pandering has reached "chicken in every pot" levels. I expect to see her handing out $20 bills next.
The media is to be blamed for this situation. They have not vetted Hillary completely. Where is Paul vs Clinton case. Why can't they bring up. They are bashing Obama for nothing. This country has a prejudice view still. What a shame to be called to be as a super power. Very inferior biased news media. Shaping the candidate hey want. Superdelegates also very wavery not taking ay bold step. The leadership qualities are very inferior also. I wish republican's capyure this oppurtunity. Iam a democrat's supporter leaning towards republican.All becuse of Hillary's divide and rule policy.
Sure Hillary will get a sympathetic hearing before the rules committee.  She has my sympathy too.
Dear Fellow Americans,

Our Great-grand Nation, the United States of America
is and will face very critical "Challenges" in coming,
months, years, and decades.  It is very essential that
we pick out next President on following criteria.


1. A candidate with "Vision and Statesmanship".

2. A candidate with " Stable Character and Morality" .

3. A candidate with "Presidential Temperament" and  
"sound Judgment".

4. A candidate with "little Washington exposure"  and
"connectedness with New voters".

5. A candidate who "Inspires us up" rather  than
"Tears
us down".

In my professional opinion there is only one candidate
left, who bears all the above qualities aand that is
Honorable Senator Obama.

As an independent registered voter since 1974. I voted
for Carter, voted for Reagan, voted for First  Bush,
and second Bush in 2000. In the process last interest
and stopped voting.

This time we can not afford to stay on side lines and
let Washington stay the same.

We can not afford our Greatgreat Nation to become less
than what we are  and can be.

We need to send clear and candid message to the world
and some 24 hour partisan hateful media. These media
outlets are trying to deprive, dupe, and derail us
from getting it right this time.

They are trying there best to deny us better rather
than bitter future. { Our Greatgrand Nations people
are
persistently and constantly subjected to Psychological
terrorism" thru these hatful partisan media outlets.

We Americans are not going to allow them
psychologically terrorized us and silence the masses.
I am sure that we will get it right this
time and elect Senator Obama our next President. let
us not get dragged down into racism and sexism.

Let us remember that our Greatgrand is constituted of
family, fellowships, friends, faith, funds, fun,
future with fairness and freedom and without fear or
favor.

We can not afford to lose any of above. Let us stand
up, be counted, save, build our Greatgrand Nation for
centuries to come.

God Bless our Great grandNation, its diverse people.

Our future needs stability, security, safety,
sustained progress and restoration of our due status
in this perilous Global World at all levels.

yours truly,

COL.[retd] A.M.Khajawall
Forensic Psychiatrist.
Disables American Veteran.
Las Vegas Nevada.
Judge Munoz Saves Hillary’s Presidential Bid In LA Court Action


http://www.peterfpaul.com/2008/04/27/judge-munoz-saves-hillarys-presidential-bid-in-la-court-action/

In the landmark civil fraud case against Bill Clinton in Los Angeles, where the former President is charged with defrauding a Hollywood dot com millionaire to help Hillary Clinton obtain more than $1.2 million from him for her 2000 Senate campaign, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Aurelio Munoz ruled on Friday, April 25 that Hillary Clinton would not be required to testify in a sworn deposition as a material witness in the case until AFTER the November election!

Rush Limbaugh And The New VRWC To Elect Hillary Clinton?
http://www.peterfpaul.com/category/barack/

Conservative talk show host Rush Limbaugh may have shown Friday that he is joining former Clinton arch-enemies Richard Mellon Scaife, Matt Drudge, News Max publisher Chris Ruddy, Bill O’Reilly and Sean Hannity in either flat out supporting Hillary publicly, or providing a strategic media coverage of her and her campaign intended to help her more than hurt her chances to win against Obama and possibly regain the White House.
Obama hasn't won a primary since February? what planet is the media on? What Mississippi & Wyoming didn't count?
Obama hasn't won a primary since February? what planet is the media on? What Mississippi & Wyoming didn't count?
I orginally thought that I could, but I now there is no doubt in my mind that I will not vote for HRC in the general election, under any circumstances.  If the superdelegates reverse the pledged delegate outcome, I will never be able to truly trust my primary vote to the democrats again. The outcome of this primary will tell us whether our election processes are fair or if they just prop up the royal families in this country.  I'm so tired of the Bush and Clinton stranglehold I could be sick.  Do people not understand that she is not interested in doing the right thing, just her thing?

I am hoping beyond all hope that I do not have to write in Obama in the GE, but I will, with the hope that the democrats lose, to teach them not to ignore their own rules and flush my vote down the political toilett.
If you think that the Republican party could do a hit job on Obama, you haven't seen anything yet. If Hillary is the nominee they will burn her at the stake. There is so much baggage that the Clinton's will never get back in the white house. Wake up America.
Since the beginning of "operation chaos" by limbaugh, and the MSM!  The coverage has been so one sided.  Not a conspirist, I am truly believing our press is no longer unbiased and free.  When you have to go to huffington, politico, the nation, and pbs to get the truth, that tell syou something.  Have not read on thing on here, or on your shows about the propoganda machine set up by bush and the pentagon!  Not one word!  makes one think....hmmm maybe there is some credibility when the "news" channels don't report the news???  
Fix news announced Saturday bush is planning an attack on Iranian camp.  Nothing on any other channel...why?  Why are the American people not being told the truth?  Why is there no coverage on here about the "womens voice, women vote" (connected to the Clinton campaign!) controversy going on in all the primaries, where they are trying to confuse voters into not voting?  I read an article on huffington post about Dreyfuss, who did a commercial for them, DENOUNCES what they have been doing in discouraging and confusing voters, mostly black, in states conducting primaries! Why do you read it on huffington post, but nothing on here?  Why has there been no coverage on MSNBC???  CNN??  ABC???  CBS??  Makes one wonder waht is really going on with our "news" stations and coverage!
On here we read about flag pins, wright, wright, and wright, and how tough clinton is, opinion after opinion, but NO NEWS!
No real discriptive intelligent discussions on what is really happening in our country.  We hear opinions of Republicans or Hillary supporters!
I don't expect you to put this on.  Just so you know how tired I am of the lopsided reporting, or the not reporting at all, of real news that you don't give the public.
There have been no stories about the record number of military suicides since the beginning of this war.  
No stories on the military deaths from electrocution on U.S. bases, and KBR!!
The rape of U.S. women working in Iraq for Halliburton!
Why???  When you are a NEWS agency??
Lisa, New Britain Ct - I can assure you that the Democratic party will loose the entire south if Obama is the nominee,and no one has ever won the White House without the south.  Time to look at the electoral college and see exactly who wins which states EC votes, cause winning a primary just is not enough.  also - all supers should vote the way their states,cities, and districts vote.  Mine did and I'm sure proud of him for it.
Count the caucus--stupid people.  Duh! That's whey they use delegates to decide the election.  Duh, with caucus reps. Clinton would not be close in the popular vote.

Clinton thinks you are soooo stupid. That's why she wants a gas tax that would cost thousands of jobs.  I guess she doesn't care about putting people out of a seasonal construction job as long as it gets her votes.  But she thinks you are stupid America.  Don't fall for her pandering! Indiana
I don't see how Obama will be able to overcome his impending loss in the popular vote as well as his loss in 7 of the 10 largest US states, including the key swing states of FL, PA, MI and OH. The non-representative caucus state wins which will go red in November are not only ademocratic, they are plagued with serious charges of malfeasance on the part of Obama's campaign (see the recent MyDD.com post of "Pacific John" as regards the El Paso, TX caucus to see what I'm talking about here.

And I haven't even mentioned national security or Obama's legion of deleterious associations and bakers. Please see the linked website for me to find out more in a YouTube video which is 'blowing up' by the minute (over 3,000 views in one day).

Obama is not fit to be President, at least not in 2008. That is the heart of the matter.

Paul F. Villarreal
VillarrealSports.com
Paul F. Villarreal (Sent Monday, May 05, 2008 9:22 AM)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Hey Paul,

Guess you haven't heard the news, but OBAMA LEADS IN POPULAR VOTE.
Even if you count Michigan and FLorida (and we ALL know they don't count) OBAMA STILL LEADS IN POPULAR VOTE.

The only way HRC leads in pop vote, is if you give HRC her 51% in Michigan and give Obama 0% in Michigan.

Now we all know that Michigan doesn't count, but just for fun, if we go ahead and count Michigan, we would HAVE to give Obama the "uncommitted" votes, as his name wasn't even on the ballot.  And if we give him the "uncommitted" then OBAMA STILL WINS THE POPULAR VOTE.

And I guess you ALSO forgot that this primary isn;t decided upon by popular vote.  It's decided upon by DELEGATES!!!!!

DELEGATES, DELEGATES, DELEGATES!!!!!

And we ALL know HRC isn't even CLOSE in delegates.

Additionally, if I were you I would be a little bit more concerned with HRC's national security, since she plans on blowing Iran off the map.

Get a life Paul.  Your candidate (either HRC or John MCCain) doesn't stand a chance.  HRC has already lost, and Obama is already beating McSame and he hasn't even been campaigning against him yet.

MORE VOTES.
MORE DELEGATES.
MORE STATES.
PLAYS BY THE RULES.
DOESN'T WANT TO OBLITERATE ANYONE.


Obama 08
Obama supporters should boycott Villarealsports.com immediately. The man is a muckraker who has no scruples but to support his crush Hillary!! He thinks Obama isn't fit to be president? Well we'll show you how we don't think we need to support your business!
So if Clinton uses the Nuclear Option in the fight for delegates does that mean that there will be a massive retaliation on her campaign... see her hawkish arguements on Iran... I think it would come in the way of African-Americans and the future of America (the youth vote) completely abandoning the Democratic Party... which would destroy the DNC's hopes in Novemember and most likely in future contests. If the DNC is not careful, they will end up on the wrong side of this political war... much like America would if Hillary is elected and she decides to follow-through on her threat against Iran...

It all comes full circle...
Jerry how about the recent Christain manifesto that came out calling people like yourself idiots!. The same ignorant masses that the founding fathers were very concerned about resulting in NO ONE MAN ONE VOTE. As long as we have voters concerned only with irrelevant talking points vis-a-vis corporate owned media we will continue to have pandering canidates on both sides.
North Caroline and Indiana go out and vote and "Stop the drama and Vote for Obama."
Paul from CA. Please put down the herb because your argument is ridiculous.  FL and MI don't count plain and simple. This was agreed to and signed by Hillary, Obama, Edwards, Richardson, and THE DNC.  Spin all you want but Hillary is not going to be president.  

Republicans Against Hillary at All costs
Oils of the Slick Williary campaign continue to ooze and form pustules of discontent that will surely leave the face of the Democratic party scared……

Come on super delegates…. Backbone up…..look into that mirror, come together and excise this pimple of a campaign know as the Clinton Candidacy...

Thank You for your support    
Lisa, I thoroughly agree with you.
If a candidate for President has to convince a large segment of the American people that he is a Patriot, loves this country and its flag...there is a big problem with his candidacy. He cannot win in November no matter what happens in the democratic nominating process. The delegates should be thinking about this.
to Tim Russert;
Dear Tim,
I have always been a fan of yours, until this past Sunday  morning's show.
When I tell you that I NEVER miss the show, I am totally sincere.
This past show was an embaressment!Your persistance regarding the Reverend Wright issue was obnxious and disturbing to me.
With the very long list of problems we have in this country, along with the seriousness of each of them, your questions were a complete waste of time!(more than 18 min.)
In my mind, you have gone from a 10 to a 7. You should know better!My viewingoptions this coming week will be something I have not had to consider in a very long time.
Very Sincerely,
John Clift
Thanks First Read!!  I do appreciate it, the delegate count left is so confusing to me..
Sounds like Hillary has a snowballs chance, but gosh, can't this just be over already???  I like how the Democrats get to create a "ground game" in every state which will help immesureably in the general election, but I also think it is becoming so polarizing..
GO HILLARY !!!
The obama group is quite funny - IF he had won FL or MI - they would be crying racist by not counting ALL the votes Sharpton & Jackson would be all over the DNC- IF they were heavy AA states!  BUT - since they are not and Hillary WON them they think they should not count.  There was NOT a signed document by the candidates saying NOT to count the states - the document ALL candidates signed was NOT to campaign in FL & MI - none of the candidates did - except Obama who ran TV ad's in NW FL - I was there and saw them!  I feel millions of Americans will be outraged and turn away from the DNC if Obama is allowed to STEAL the nomination by blocking these states.  Both candidates will need these two BIG states to win in the fall - how does obama think he can get the votes without these states???  Clinton will do well in the remaining states, count in FL& MI - and she wins.
I'm sure the first vote states would like a re-do since we now know more about Obama and would like to
"change" their vote.  The supers are aware of this and want to WIN the White House.
Come on you guys.....this is the reason I dont watch CNN, MSNBC and the other Clinton enablers on TV. They are all corporate lackeys that have been instructed by their corporate masters to vote for the staus quo, special interest, lobbyist funded Clinton campaign so they can continue their greedy, money hungry ways.
The MSM is poisonous
According to the articles posted, the shame of discovered hidden agenda's. These Agenda's of those wanting to be our next President. The finest example,the gas tax. Clinton , says stop it for the summer. Obama, don't stop it, McCain, said stop it! Well, while they argue, the price of gas jumped $.15 in the last week. These three people are Senators, they belong to our derailed Congress. They are figure heads in Washington with self serving agenda's. These agenda's never demand to address what is failing our nation. At this point, These three are dysfunctional and want to be your next president! Now that is a real Shame. I'm just ""ONE"" of those Stupid Americans. And in closing, I don't know what day to vote. What is a election? Hillary WHO, I know Bill IS.
I will never vote for McCain.  But frankly, I don't know if I'll ever vote again, at least not in a dem/repub battle, if the dems show us that we are actually the party of the rich, the white, the powerful, the establishment.  If Hillary is given this nomination based on recalculation back-flips and end-of-course rule changes, the balloon we've been traveling in is popped.
Sincerely,
White, middle-class, registered independent but progressive woman for Obama.
I cannot believe this!  I do try to give HRC the benefit of the doubt. I dont like to see her trying to be a meanie-trying to hang with the tough guys. I love her in those moments that she talks about her daughter and acts like a woman. I dont find anything wrong with that. I dont need a woman with testicular fortitude. I value a woman with vaginal fortitude--just as strong if not stronger!!!  I just cannot take the dishonesty. On morning Joe as well as the Steve Harvey morning radio show here in the NY area, HRC repeated that she is winning the popular vote.  No one called her on it.  
All you have to do is read the posts to see what kind of person is attracted to obama.  Just another reason I would never vote for him.

They say they are the educated but what these youngsters don't realize is they aren't very intelligewnt or imbued with much common sense.

They say that Senator Clinton panders and yet ignore obamas,  it is the hypocrisy apparent in them and their candidate that disgusts me the most.
""Bitter"", ""STUPID""!  Lets look at this in a logical manner, with common sense I never aligned with a community servant who preaches God Damn America! I have aligned to destroy the unity of my country. I ever choose to take up arms against my fellow American! I've never aligned with Hitler, Socialist concepts, shaken then hand of one who supports killing our troops. If we are bitter is because Congress is derailed, Clinton and Obama are part of that failure! I'm not a Washington self serving paper hanging LIAR!
I just answered poll questions from you guys over there at MSNBC.  One of my answers that I can NOT bring myself to answer, is whether I will vote for Hillary over McCain in November.  I put "undecided" because on this question....I really am, and if that should be my only two choices, it is the 1st time in my life I would have wanted a strong, 3rd party candidate.


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