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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Bill Clinton expands on FL, MI

Posted: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:38 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC/NJ's Matthew E. Berger
MISSOULA, MT -- Bill Clinton today made an expanded and direct argument for seating Florida and Michigan delegates, suggesting his wife is being punished and arguing that Obama's campaign opposed a re-vote.

“I never thought it would be the Democratic Party that didn’t want to count votes in Florida,” he said at a rally at the University of Montana. “I thought that was a Republican strategy -- or strategery as the case may be. And I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?”

For more than six minutes, Clinton went through the timeline of how both states lost their delegates, and who was to blame. While he has made the case before, he placed new emphasis on it today, as it becomes clearer that seating the delegates from both states is one of the few remaining options to help Hillary Clinton defeat Obama.

“Hillary offered a revote in Michigan; we offered a revote in Florida,” Clinton said. “In both cases, the other campaign said, ‘Nope, no re-vote, we will just see what to do when this thing is over.’ Why would we put Michigan at risk and pretend that these people didn't show up and pretend that somehow she is responsible and the voters themselves are responsible and she should be punished for what intermediaries did?”

Clinton said the removal of Florida and Michigan had a “superficial element of fairness” because Obama and John Edwards took their name off the ballot. But, he added, they did that because Hillary Clinton was ahead in the polls and there was a “very organized and funded campaign to get everyone to vote uncommitted.” However, Clinton herself said last fall that the Michigan contest was "not going to count for anything."

“So if we are gonna decide a closely held contest, it shouldn’t be decided with those kind of tactics and those kind of principles,” he said. “This should be a great empowerment election, and how ironic it would be, if after so many people have been empowered through internet giving and active participation, if the thing would be decided by the most disempowering top-down, and I think mindless decision I can recall in a month of Sundays.”

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Comments

what a self-righteous opportunist.
I like the argument that Hillary should be president 'because she said so!'
Boo-friggin'-hoo Bill.  They all agreed to remove their names from the ballot.  Hillary reneged on that agreement.  Barack Obama should not be penalized for following the agreement.

http://thepajamapundit.com/
If anyone thinks Bill Clinton tells the truth, just look to history.  Obama didn't oppose a re-vote, he opposed the Clinton's using their money and having control over a re-vote.  Obama is smart!  Also, Obama agreeed recently to a 69/59 split in MI that Hillary and that man opposed because they want to count everything for Clinton even though Obama wan not even on the ballot in MI.  Greedy, yes, stupid, yes, win at any cost, yes, change rules in mid-stream, yes.  Does anyone beleive anything the Clintons say anymore?  I don't!  Obama 08!
This is not Obama's doing.  And why because Hillary is behind should we make the biggest deal of it anyway.  If the results were reversed?  Your wife would be further behind than she is in this scenario and still probably wouldn't leave the race.
How is it that the Clinton's need every break for them to gain the nomination.  Not just Fl and MI being sat.  That is the beginning of their problems.  Stict to the 'He's Black' strategy.  It is all that is truely left.
Would SOMEONE in the press puleeze ask the Clintons what  a signed agreement means?  Senator Clinton agreed those votes wouldn't count, and now she is being PUNISHED?? This is why so many of us distrust the Clintons.  They will swear the sky is orange if they see personal gain out of it.

And MSNBC...I watched a whole segment of "Morning Joe" this A.M. Please send Joe on permanent vacation so one can watch the program.
Mr. Impeached President...rules and laws were never a concern of yours then and are still not!  HRC continues to follow your poor and twisted example.

Bob, Chicago
Hey Bill, when your party games the system, it might just come back to game you.

What a piece of work.  And you know what, Dems, HE WAS NEVER ANY DIFFERENT THEN THAN HE IS NOW!

By the way, does Eric from Salinas work for First Read or hasn't the filter taken effect yet?
Bill is right. You have to decide what to do about Florida and Michigan. You do this for no other reason than, if you don't, you will undoubtedly lose both states come November.Obama can not afford to lose Michigan and would be in a great position if he somehow managed to win Florida which is doubtful right now. It will help Obama in November if he gave a little right now. Let the Florida result stand, their names were on the ballot and nobody campaigned. So she won. So the margin is a little less. Do a revote in Michigan and seat both delegations.
Bill, please stop your whining! If the tables were turned, ain't no way in hell, you or Hillary would give Edwards or Obama a leg up. Get over it, already!
didn't hillary sign a pledge to count out these states? The Clintons cant have it both ways. It is you who want to cheat Bill!
Give......me......a......break.


Obama's campaign has offered several solutions.  One of them more recently even had the backing of one of the Clinton's campaign chairs in Michigan.  The Clinton campaign has shot them down anyway.
The "mindless decision" was made by the Fl and MI democratic party leaders who decided to break the rules and have their primaries too early to count.

Bill did not address the fact that Obama agreed to a compromise to recognize MI's delegates while Hillary did not.  Bill & Hillary ignored FL & MI until they decided that these states' votes were important.  Obama has consistently said he would abide by what the DNC decides.  I want a President who is willing to compromise to be fair to all involved, but who is not willing to compromise his integrity.  That person is Barack Obama.
The Clintons are regressing back to the days of their 'terrible twos' with this whole MI and FL thing.  They broke the rules.  The Clintons agreed to the sanctions.  Now they NEED these states and want to change the rules and they'll scream and blame others until they get their way.  So childish!

Obama did not say 'no' to the revote.  FL and MI legislators looked at a revote in each state and determined that a revote would violate the states' constitutions.  The Clintons are now trying to rewrite history to make Obama look bad. Obama said all along that he'd go with whatever the DNC suggested.

Only the Clintons could get away with this behavior.  Could you see if it were Obama or Edwards trying to pull this stuff?  The press would bury them in negative reporting.  Somehow, people seem to tune out when the Clintons act out in such a manner.  It's disgusting.  So let's all continue to spoil the Clintons.  When they act out, give them what they want whether it's right or wrong.  It's not like they'll learn any lessons at their age.  
Bill is insane.

The end.
I am so SICK of Bill Clinton.  They (the Clintons) are only further dividing the Democrats.  They just want to give Hillary supports reasons to feel like they were cheated so they won't vote for Obama. If Hillary think she's going to have a chance in 2012 with the way she's behaved, she crazy.
It all depends on the meaning of what is is or if today is tomorrow...yuk yuk.  Party unity and bipartisan government are not possible as long as the Clintons are involved.  
My GOD , Bill do you have any decency left in you? You are not the same man that I voted for twice , and defend through out your desacration of the presidency. You have proven every single one of my Republican friends to be right. They said that you where a lying, cheating do and say anything politician,and damn it they were right. Worse part is your wife and child are the same as you. Everytime I hear your arguement for this I am sicken. You dont tell how your wife was offered a split in favor of her,69to59 and she said NO!! You also dont tell how she only began to care about these two states after she was losing. Agter seeing how dishonest you and everyone surrounding her campaign has been about this matter I would not have put any trust in a revote that was funded by friends of yours either!!!!!
A privately funded revote. Clintons= no democracy=cheat or buy your way. Another point the Clintons assume  I am a racist because I am a hard working white over 50 woman. I've had enough of the Clintons I used to belong to the Dem. party but am now a reg. ind. I now know why, they have no leadership. How dare they let the Clintons continue.
Thanks for the whining distraction, Bill.  It really is all about you, isn't it?

Scram, pal.
Some one please stop that man from lying.  It is NOT Senator Obama's fault that MI and FL chose to break the rules, and then couldn't come up with a fair way to stage a real vote.  Even if you count FL and MI she still needs over 70% of ALL remaining delegates to win.  

It is possible but it's not likely. Math, it is what it is.  

As of Wednesday, May 14, 2008

Obama Clinton
1599 1447
285.5 276.5
1884.5 1723.5

(omitting FL and MI)

There are only 424 available delegates (189 of which are elected) remaining to get to 2026

BHO needs 141.5 or 33.4% of the total remaining delegates
HRC needs 302.5 or 71.3% of the total remaining delegates


IF you count FL (as is) and MI (as proposed)

There are still only 424 available delegates remaining to get to 2209

BHO needs 196.5 or 46.3% of the total remaining delegates
HRC needs 312.5 or 73.7% of the total remaining delegates


IF you count FL (as is) and skip MI

There are still only 424 available delegates remaining to get to 2130

BHO needs 176.5 or 41.6% of the total remaining delegates
HRC needs 302.5 or 71.3% of the total remaining delegates
Sure sounds to me like some of those comments coming from Bill are putting down Obama. I thought that Hillary was going to keep running until all the primaries have been held but try and do so without damaging or tryimng to hurt Obama. Looks to me like the Clintons could care less about hurting Obama and will continue to run like a runaway derailed train. It's time Hillary got out of the race before the Clintons start saying that the Michigan votes should count double for Hillary because Obama took his name off the ballot (their kind of thinking and it is damaging).
Yo Bill, go call Monica or something and leave us alone. PLEASE.
Another Clinton "Game Changer" except this time, its the rules of the game that they want to change.  
"And I just ask you all this, do you really believe Florida would be getting this kind of treatment if the vote had turned out the other way?”

Are we to believe that if the vote went the other way that the Clintons were going to just say, no problem, seat the MI and FL delegates?  

The endless of amount of Chutzpah out of the Clintons is rather incredible...
* No mention of Terry McAuliffe's contribution to the FL/MI thingie
* "Closeness" requires use of currently invalid data
* FL/MI were not removed, they were not allowed in the first place
* The Clintons have accepted/rejected/restrained/constrained/revised/revisited ... the FL/MI topic so often they don't know where they actually stand (if they actually stand for anything) on it
* And of course it is somehow Obama's fault.

A true sadness has emerged in all of this--the onion-thin veneer that hides the racial fears and racist views in this country is being ruptured from the many spins people are using to hide their mean-minded, narrow-visioned, spitefulness.

Civility and decency are being pushed aside in the name of politics.

Old white guy on an island in the Pacific Northwest
Is Bill Clinton trying to ensure his legacy - as the most disgraceful, dishonest ex-President in U.S. history?  I know he will have awfully tough competition come January 20, 2009, but it sure looks like he is making a play for that dubious distinction.  

I was one of his biggest defenders at the time, but this primary season is really making me wish he had been successfully impeached.  
Bill Clinton just perfectly encapsulated within a few paragraphs why Barack Obama will win the nomination.

What Bill has never understood is that the voters TOLERATED his almost pathological dishonesty because we liked most of the policies.  Now, we can have the policies without all the incessant lying and drama.

Why would we go back?

By the way, I think those three paragraphs of Bill Clinton quotes would be considered by any psychologist to be a classic case of projection; accusing the other side of being engaged in tactics that you, yourself, are employing.

Start being a statesman again, President Clinton.  This role is not very becoming for you.  
Wow.. the clintons are really stretching things. She signed up to the same rules that Obama did. I guess the Clintons will do anything to win, including cheating! She will not be the nominee, and, all the money that he has gotten from tycoons will not buy them the Presidency! Go home Clintons!
So, Bill -- just HOW many Floridians and Michiganders did not go to the polls because they knew their vote wouldn't count?  How can you possibly justify this?

btw, my 25 year old daughter -- well educated, smart and informed -- is a registered Florida voter and she didn't vote b/c she knew it wouldn't count.  Are you willing to disenfranchise her and thousands and thousands of others?

And, what kind of message are you giving States for 2012?  Hey! it's ok to break the rules! The rules don't count!!!  haha!

I am SO seriously thinking of switching to an Independent -- the Democratic Party is so screwed up.

The only soultion that is fair to everyone is a re-vote!

TypicalClinton tactics - Its always someonelses fault. Clinton signed the agreement in the beginning and now they want t ochange the rules to suit themselves. IF the DNC does cahnge the rules now they may as well get rid of the Dem party and make it DemA and DemB. I will never vote for a liar and a cheat. You can and should not change the rules midway.

Obama never said no to a re-vote. Clinton ought to get his facts straight. I hope he keeps spinning until his head pops off.
Are you kidding me?  I guarantee you if the situation were reversed the Clintons would not be fighting for FL and MI delegates.  I'm sure their positions would be "Oh well, rules are rules, we all agreed to play by them."  Alot of the people, not all, who support Senator Clinton are being wound up with arificial arguments about blue collar workers and seating delagates in states that broke the rules.  I think I've learned a very important lesson about politicians during this contest: If your loosing an election do what every you have to make people angry at the guy whose winning.  Even if your loser status is your "own fault"

Do those Clintons LOVE TO LIE! or what.  The lies just fall out of their mouths

Go Obama, 08
Shame on you, Bill Clinton! Shame on you! You know better. You know the Obama campaign didn't reject the revotes. Your pathological lies hurt only you, you old fuddyduddy! I cannot believe you ever held the highest office in the land.
We did know a lot of bad habits about Billc but we never saw him that low. It shows how desperate he and is. He is willing to do anything or twist the truth 180 degree for the nomination. I hope it will be over in two weeks and we will not hear the name again.
Bill and Hillary Clinton supporters lets think about a couple of things for a moment.  Since Hillary always claims to be a fighter, if you signed a contract to fight your competitor in a boxing match... that means you agreed to the terms (RULES) of the fight.  So once the fight started and about half way into the fight you realize that you are getting your butt kicked, do you go to your opponent and say.. look can we change the rules because it isn't really benefiting me anymore?  I thought I would have knocked you out earlier but I wasn't able to finish you off as early as expected (SUPER TUESDAY).

Mr. Obama has not broken any rules.. He simply is competing based on the rules that were established at the very beginning of the FIGHT.  So how is it Bill that Hillary is being PUNISHED?  

I guess it takes an educated person to understand that your argument makes ABSOLUTELY no sense.  Oh thats right your base voters are UNEDUCATED voters.. that explains why this race has continued..

Its simple.. realize that you hired a terrible campaign strategist (Mark Penn)and he royally screwed you. The funny thing is I would have actually voted for you until you stuck your butt up in my face and insulted my intelligence.. but I guess I don't matter because I am:

1.  Educated
2.  Make over 50k a year
3.  And I am an African American

I am invisible to the clintons.. so please explain to me how you would work to win my vote in November..oh nevermind.. you wouldn't have to because I am  educated enough to know that I am a registered democrat so I will vote for the DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE REGARDLESS OF WHO IT IS!!! Not be an idiot and vote for the WHITE GUY because my WHITE CANDIDATE didn't win the nomintation..

See kids.. this is why education is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!
He has lost so much creditability.  He doesn't have the stature as a former President, he is a surrogate of the Hillary campaign no more no less.
This commentary brought to you by a guy that sodomized an intern in the Oval Office, then commited perjury to cover it up.
"But, he added, they did that because Hillary Clinton was ahead in the polls and there was a “very organized and funded campaign to get everyone to vote uncommitted.”

What? Obama and Edwards took their names off the ballot because ALL the candidates signed a pledge not to campaign in Michigan and Florida, and ALL the candidates thought those states wouldn't count. How dare Bill suggest otherwise. The man is coming unglued.

He might be able to fool the people of WV and KY, but Obama's block of white, educated, "elitist" voters, African Americans and college-educated young people see right through Bill's lies.

Shame on you, Bill. I hope the SDs and the DNC put a stop to this by June 4th. I'm tired of the Clintons' spin and their rule or ruin mentality.
Why did I ever vote and stand by this man!  I mean I stood by Bill when the GOP wanted to hang him from highest tree in Washington.

May God help us all if they steal this election from the 1st man color this nation has ever put forward.  Obama will inspire so many young black man to do great things instead of crime, drugs,  un-protected sex, ect.  I hope and pray the Clintons will see the greater good for our nation and help and support Obama.  I do pray and want the best for our kids.
COUNT ALL THE VOTES!!
It is our AMERICAN RIGHT TO VOTE - the DNC cannot take away our rights!
How dare obama think he can control this election - how dare he even go to MI & FL - try to win their votes in the general - NOT count them in the primary - THINK NOT NOT NOT!
And this is helping to heal the divide by blaming Obama for this??!!  Bill is outright LYING!!!  The Dems in Mich AND FL rejected the idea that the election would be PIAD FOR by private individuals on the grounds that the highly unethical nature of such a proposaition would taint the whole Idea of a democratic vote!!  Plus there were threats of class action lawsuits against the states DNC if they did such a thing, not by Obama's camp, by VOTERS!!  THAT is why it died, you lying #@$%^!  Please supers: End this!!!


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