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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Bush vs. Obama

Posted: Friday, May 16, 2008 9:14 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: , , ,

 

The headline from the Los Angeles Times: "In Israel, President Bush derides terrorism 'appeasement'; Barack Obama bristles."

Per the Boston Globe, “The intercontinental exchange between a junior Illinois senator and the sitting president confirmed Obama's new status as his party's standard-bearer - and Bush's willingness to defend his foreign policy in the midst of the campaign to replace him. ‘I can't imagine there's a precedent for a sitting president to go before the legislative body of a foreign government and launch a political attack on a major-party nominee running to succeed him,’ said Brian P. Murphy, a fellow in American history at the University of Pennsylvania.”

The New York Times writes, “The episode placed Mr. Bush squarely in one of the most divisive debates of the campaign to succeed him, as Republicans try to portray Mr. Obama as weak in the fight against terrorism. It also underscored what the White House has said will be an aggressive effort by Mr. Bush to use his presidential platform to influence the presidential election.”

More: “For Mr. Obama, the stakes are high. Many American Jews and Israelis view him with some suspicion, for several reasons. First, he has said he would be willing to meet with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the leader of Iran, who has called Israel ‘a stinking corpse’ and denies its right to exist.”

Indeed, McClatchy says that Bush “seemed to be trying at least in part to woo Jewish voters who've signaled concerns about Barack Obama… Analysts took note of Obama's swift response, calling it another signal that he knows he has doubters in the Jewish community. ‘No doubt about it,’ said Kevin Wagner, an assistant professor of political science at Florida Atlantic University in Southeast Florida, home to many Jewish retirees. More conservative, older Jewish voters tend to be suspicious of where Obama stands on Israel, he said.”

“The stinging remarks roiled the race for the White House and marked a sharp turn for the president, who has largely stayed well clear of involving himself in the contest to succeed him,” the New York Post writes, adding, “Republican John McCain said he agreed with Bush's statements, and used the opportunity to argue that Obama was showing ‘naivete and inexperience and lack of judgment’ in his willingness to meet with America's foes.”

Although Obama himself didn’t comment on Bush’s and McCain’s remarks yesterday, he did say this to the New York Times’ David Brooks: “The debate we’re going to be having with John McCain is how do we understand the blend of military action to diplomatic action that we are going to undertake,” he said. “I constantly reject this notion that any hint of strategies involving diplomacy are somehow soft or indicate surrender or means that you are not going to crack down on terrorism. Those are the terms of debate that have led to blunder after blunder.”

GOP Sen. Chuck Hagel, whom some see as a possible Obama running mate, jumped into the fray. “The president probably would have been better off staying on the high ground and not interject himself in politics… I think he diminishes the office when he allows himself to sink down into the underbrush of petty politics,” Hagel told MSNBC.com’s Tom Curry. “I’m not sure who he was talking about or what he meant,” he said. “I’m not aware of any officials who have ever talked about a policy of dealing with terrorists.”

He added, “I agree with Sen. Obama and many of us who have talked about engaging Iran. Iran is a legitimate government… a sovereign nation.”

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Comments

Obama is WRONG on this one.
DEMOCRATS FOR McCAIN...how is obama wrong for wanting to talk to our enemies. Its cowboys like you that are to blame for all of our soldiers being killed. If Bush would have tried to talk to saddam instead of attacking first, we might not even be in this situation. since when has talking to people become a sign of weakness?
Demo for McCain.......Hope you continue to support Mr. McDraft.  Your as much a warmonger as he is and known as little as the radio jockey on Hard Ball last nite.

Bob, Chicago
I can't believe we still have 9 more LONG months of this joker Bush. He is a complete fool. I cannot wait to be proud, once again, of my President. One that will succeed in diplomacy around the world where the current one can't even put a complete sentence together. Obama is NOT wrong on this one as posted above. Obama is RIGHT. Bush and his Administration have only stengthened Iran because of their failed policies. They have not only made America less safe, they have also made Israel less safe. And if you want more young Americans to die for nothing, elect McCain in Nov, because he's already planning a third war with Iran. Hillary supporters need to think long and hard about this come Nov and vote for Obama. Had she won the nomination I would have held my nose and voted for her....I expect the same from them.
Keep talking, Dub.  Keep talking.

The GOP is trying to run away from you and you just made McFlipflop your "Lil' Buddy".  Your approval ratings are subterranean and you have no credibility or respect.

By all means, keep talking and serving as the anchor to the GOP.
No, Democrats For McCain, he's right . . . unless you look forward to WWIII.
I think if I were McSame I'd be saying thanks but no thanks.  I am saying thanks.
Thank you Mr. Bush.  This is a gift that will keep on giving.  

Obviously, your plan has failed.  I think Keith Oberman had it correct when he said, "SHUT UP."  We will all appreciate that.
"Lame Duck" Bush against Barack Obama reminds me that Obama ought to get his gun because it's Lame Duck Hunting Season.

It was George "Wrong" Bush who has been sleeping with the enemy.  He negotiated with the terrorists in Al Anbar Province in Iraq, many with American blood on their hands, so that they would turn against Al Qaeda.  Not only that but he put them on his payroll paying them with our tax dollars.

Funny how the repugnant ones were bragging about this nefarious partnership as to being a positive sign of their surge, yet now they're keeping real quiet about this now that they're nagging Obama or Jimmy Carter about trying to get the terrorists to the negotiating table.

Go Obama 08/12!
Democrats for McCain!!!????

Thanks so much for my laugh of the day.  What, you're all so impressed by Mr. Bush that you want a third term?  

What a hoot!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
It took Obama 24 hours to come up with something substantive. God forbid he needs to think on his feet IF voted as the President.

And his complained about Hilary in the primaries? This is nothing compared to what's coming his way in the fall elections. The Repubs are merely gearing up.

I wouldn't want to read his whining and cries every single day of the campaign. Before his speech writers could muster the right words, there will be a barrage more attacks from the other side - who could match him cent per cent in spending.

Now Obama kids, wouldn't you all want to eat your vile words at Hilary and ask her help to train him?

I dare MSNBC to post this.
Well let me remind all of those on the McCain-Bush bandwagon on this issue.  Um, didn't we just help put Malaki in office in Iraq?  Um, didn't he just meet with Amadenejad in Iraq and kiss him on the sides of his face?  So in other words we invade Iraq, take out Saddam and put someone in power who is friends with Iran.  Oh, I don't know it seems a little like we have been shooting ourselves in the foot with help from our own president.  Also, are we dealing with North Korea, didn't George Bush meet with Kadafi, Regan with Gorbachev?  The list goes on and on.  I also, believe that Sec. Gates just said we needed to have talks with Iran day before yesterday.  This administration is so inept it cannot keep up with its positions.  It seems as if John McCain can't make up his mind on Hamas either.
Bush showing some early signs of desparation (regarding the election) and willingness to pander, even at the expense of our Country's stature overseas.  Call me shocked...NOT.

He (Bush) certainly doesn't look very US Presidential, keep kissing that legacy goodbye President Bush.

I am glad to see him being called on his inartfulness, his hypocracy, and his willingness, once again, to make us look like buffoons on the international stage.

In one fell swoop, he has elevated Obama to his do-battle equal.  I'm sure Obama is up to the task.
Democrats for McCain - I don't see it that way at all. Obama is right and Bush is wrong.

We can't be afraid to talk to someone just because he isn't a great guy. And that's really what it comes down to. Fear. Not only do Republicans campaign on it, they live by it. They're afraid. That's why they keep building up these guys as far more dangerous than calmer, less fearful and more objective observers recognize.

Iran hasn't invaded anybody. Our own intelligence experts have concluded they probably aren't trying to build nuclear weapons, though granted it is something to keep an eye on. And the more we interact with them, the more data points we'll have as to whether they do or don't have military aims outside their borders.

I think independents are ready for a foreign policy not build on notions developed hiding under the bed, afraid that every two-bit dictator (which Iran doesn't even have) is the reincarnation of Hitler or Stalin.
No 'Democrat . . .'  He is NOT!  Don't you get it?  Bush's Famous Axis of evil speech is why N. Korea is now nuclear and Iran in trying to go there and why Iraq people have suffered almost a MILLION deaths, not to mention more 4000 of our young men and women 18-25 for the most part.  If diplomacy was allowed to work MY FRIEND WOULDN'T BE SETTING OFF METAL DETECTORS EVERYWHERE BECAUSE OF INJURIES SUSTAINED IN IRAQ!!!!
I think these all speak for current events:

“The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by skeptics or cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need men who can dream of things that never were.”
JFK

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Theodore Roosevelt

“Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them?”
Abraham Lincoln

“You have to have a positive strategy to make more partners and fewer terrorists. Harry Truman and George Marshall took a little bit of our money to build a world that had more friends and better enemies. Foreign assistance is national security -- not charity. The Marshall Plan saw it that way and we have to do the same today.”
Bill Clinton

Obama, Hagel, Webb, Biden, Clinton, Warner and all the rest of US who believe that what we do in this country and the decisions we make regarding our foreign policy is our soverign responsiblity and not to be used as a political tool on foreign soil need to stand up to this president now.  I for one almost find his actions treasonable.
You can have McBush on this one! He and Bush are wrong and our current standing in the world is a direct reflection of their flawed foriegn policy. I am glad to see that even smart GOPers are standing with true Democracts on this one! We have much work to do throughout the World to rebuild our reputation. I feel certain that with Obama at the helm and strong leaders like Sen. Hagel and Sen. Webb we will accomplish this!
McShame is a Baal worshipper...

Think about that Far Right Wing Republicans
before you send our youth of to die
While I try to find common ground before attacking a viewpoint, Senator McCain's refusal to engage with anyone who disagrees with him is dumbfounding.  Replace the U.N. with a League of Democracies?  What happens when all of these democracies don't agree with us?  Will we find a narrower and less authoritative group to cheer us on?

As far as negotiating with states such as Iran, we need only look to every war that has been avoided through diplomacy to justify the need for engagement.  And World War II?  First of all, appeasement was not used just to try and stave off Hitler and get out the "easy way", but to buy time for woefully unprepared militaries to begin the build-up to war.  Second, I will preempt the Pearl Harbor comparisons by noting that the U.S. Navy not only anticipated an attack by Japan, but was doing everything in its power to figure out where that attack was coming from.  Diplomacy does not prevent preparation.  Nothing is as simple as Neocons would like you to believe it is, they only hope you choose not to care while they pursue reckless cowboy foreign policy with the lives of American servicemen and women.  I used to admire Senator McCain for so many things, but with every step further to the right and further out of touch with the challenges of a changing world, each one, in turn, falls away.
What GW should have said!

Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You Hillary? You Osama Obama? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Saddam, and you curse Carl Rove. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That water-boarding terrorists, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties and body-piercing gatherings, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a bunch of limped-wristed tree-huggers who rise and sleep under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, and then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said THANK YOU, and went on your delusional kumbaya singing ways, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think! You friggin' people. You have no idea how to defend a nation. All you did is weaken a country today, that’s all you did. You put people's lives in danger. Sweet dreams, son.
No Stuff Democrats for McCain ?  That would be you and Joe Lieberat and who? If you have watched anything in this election cycle is this.  John McBush is very loose with the truth and is not clear on facts either.Back in 2000 I thought John McCain was honorable, then I noticed something after the way Bush did him he changed.  Not for the good.  He now has flip flopped on so many things that you dont know what is going to come out of his mouth from minute to minute.   Not going to sling dirt ,then slings dirt, against torture but now water boarding is ok. In the middle but will appoint conservative Judge. 100 yr war well since you caught me on that one maybe we can end it by 2013.  Get real he is not in touch with reality just like that failure of a president with their Saber waving foreign policy.  Then people wonder why Americans are un popular abroad, like we used to be. No thank you we dont need Bottom Gun's Maverick for President.  Hiding Gun wasn't a good President and Bottom Gun will be worse.
For the loons on the left--just what is it you think Mr. Obama wants to talk about?  Does he want to negotiate an end to Iran's sponsoring terrorism? What's the quid pro quo? Translation: what do you suppose Mr. Obama wants to put on the table as an incentive?  Money? Is that ok with you? Technology? Is that ok with you?  Or---most likely---does he intend to beg for a respite so we can cut and run? That probably is ok with you.  Yes, indeed---a real position of strength.  Please think beyond your too easily tweaked noses.
What's the saying? "Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer." I find it hyprocritical for GW to bash a suggested startegy re: Foreign relations when is own policy has failed miserably, resulting in over 4100 deaths and over 3000 mamed Americans. There is a time and place to say things. GW is certainly entitled to his opinions(for whatever it's worth), however his comments were inappropriate when stated on foreign soil and during Israel's 60th anniversary. He displayed absolutely no class what-so-ever, and that my fellow Americans is a reflection on all of us. January 2009 cannot come soon enough when a Dem is in the WH and our honor will be restored.
Democrats for McCain:

We know that you are just a sore loser because your candidate, HRC didn't get the nomination.

If you truly want to vote for McSame, then you need to take the "democrat" off of your name, because you are not a true democrat.  If you were voting for HRC because you agreed with her policy, then you would not even CONSIDER voting for McSame, as his policy is 4 More Years of GWB.  ANy fool can see that.

If staying at war for 100 years is fine with you, then go ahead and vote for McSame.

If 4 more years of GWB failed economic policies is fine with you, then go ahead and vote for McSame.

If conservative judges in the supreme court and bye-bye Roe vs Wade, and a womens right to her own body is fine with you then go ahead and vote McSame.

Vote for McSame if you must, but take the Democrat off of your name, as we don't need bottom feeders like you in our party.

And don't let the door hit you in the arse.



Go Dems!!!!


Go Obama!!!!
Talking with the enemy, one learns their weaknesses
and one can instruct them. Boundaries of behavior can be established : and it is very much like training a do
not to foul his surroundings and to use the litter box.
The issue raises Obama as the front runner this is an issue he can take to the bank with the American people, Yes there are a few uneducated people,
they still also believe Obama is a Muslim and a
terrorist they will never be convinced, but from now on Obama will attain the status of statesman.
It should not be a difficult task outtalking George Bush, as his rhetoric is dryed up and he is not
one of the smartest presidents(Who voted him in anyway
please stand up) I t is your duty to get rid of him and Mccain.
how the hell is wrong on this one, dem's for McCain, why didn't you explain.you are so stupid to realise that why geroge has been doing the 8 years IS NOT WORKING!!!! SO PLEASE POST THIS AND I WANT DEM'S FOR MCCAIN TO EXPLAIN.    
Doesn't it show McCains weakness when Bush has to do his dirty work?
McCain sat with a big smile...couldn't wait for the press to ask the question.  He was like a little kid with a secret.  
His secret is...he will be running  4 more years of the Bush/Cheney/Rove administration.  He wanted a pat on the head from Bush, and he has not gotten it.
Obama is RIGHT.  We need to talk to NATIONS around the world.  Iran, is a nation, like them or not, we have to deal with them in this world!  Bush pushed Iran was killing our soldiers, now, we know that is NOT TRUE!  Just like WMD's in Iraq!  That is why Bush had a propoganda program in the pentagon, to infiltrate the press before and during the war!  We were DUPED to get us into a war in IRAQ!  Bush is a LIAR!! Why in Gods name would the American people believe anything he says NOW??  Just another FEAR MONGORING way to scare the American people.  Using Hitler is pathetic and disturbing!  He has shamed the Presidency, blackened the honor and integrity of being the President of the United States on foreign soil, in front of the whole world!  
What an embarrassment!
The greatest Presidents in history...had excellent diplomacy!  Bush has had none!  He will be seen in history, as the American people SEE now, the worst President in American history.
Appeasement is when you GIVE something to a foreign entity.  Speaking, talking, negotiating with many nations is DIPLOMACY, NOT appeasement!
Bush is an IDIOT when it comes to diplomacy!  The only diplomacy he understands is making BIllions for his buddies in Halliburton, B&R, blackwater, while our servicemen and women can't get adequate health care coming home from WAR!  Living in deplorable condiditons!  And BUSH supports the troops by giving up GOLF?  HE is an embarrassment to our nation!!!!
McCain is a walking disaster....just like BUSH!

Americans....
use the brain God gave you...
instead of falling for lies, FEAR and making decisions on emotions!!
Let's see if they'll be impressed by Bush or go for McCain when he drafts there butts.  Rep aren't exempt from the draft you know.  With 2 possible 3 wars, because it sounds like they're trying to start another one, they're going to need more bodies.


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