ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Clinton's Florida-Michigan push

Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 12:55 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As she prepares to campaign in the Florida today, Hillary Clinton said in a radio interview this morning that Democrats should learn from the lessons of the hanging chads from elections past and not ignore the will of the voters.
 
Clinton, speaking with WMJI radio in Cleveland, Ohio, this morning before flying to Florida, referred to the upcoming HBO movie about the 2000 recount and said she has heard that it “makes a very strong case” for seating the state’s delegates today.
 
“The lesson is if you can discern the clear intent of the voter, why would you punish the voter?” she said. “We are turning this into a major battle that I think is really ill serving the party.”
 
Clinton will be making that case today during three campaign appearances in South Florida, where she is expected also to press her argument that she is leading in the popular vote. Clinton also said the entire nomination process should be looked at in the future.
 
“We’ve got to change the way we nominate presidents for a lot of reasons,” she said. “I personally believe these caucuses are terribly unrepresentative. … [And] I think that what’s happened with Florida and Michigan raises serious questions about the principles of our party.” 
 
Clinton claimed some measure of momentum, saying that since Feb. 200 she has “won the states that have been contested that we have to win.”
 
“I have a lead in the popular vote that I added to last night,” she said, referring to a strong showing in Kentucky. “I continue to believe that I am the stronger candidate to be John McCain in the fall.”
 
Clinton again alluded to her gender, saying when asked about media coverage of her that it “has been a really challenging campaign for both Sen. Obama and me.”
 
“We’ve never had a woman this close, we certainly have never had an African American [this close],” she said. “I cant tell you how many times an older man will say to me, ‘You know I decided to support you and I though I’d never support a woman. “And it’s a really nice moment.”
 
Clinton called in for the interview en route to Dulles Airport. Joining the hosts in studio were Sen. Sherrod Brown and Rep. Zack Space, two uncommitted superdelegates. Space at one point praised Clinton, saying it is clear she speaks from the heart and is passionate about the issues.
 
“Can I assume this is your superdelegate endorsement?” Clinton joked. “Seventy percent of the people who voted for me in your district would be so happy to hear that.”
 
Space demurred, saying only that there were two great candidates.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

It is time, Superdelegates & DNC.  She's been throwing the party under the bus to win this thing since day one.  It has now gone on long enough.  

Superdelegates, you need to act.  What kind of cowards are these people?  

DNC- Why are you SOOO SILENT!?!

Rebuff her, now.  Come out with a strong statement letting people know that Clinton supported these rules, rallied behind them, and is wrong to suggest it is disenfranchisement.

Where the heck is the DNC pushback?  Don't they see that every time she lies about the rules and the system, and they don't respond to correct her, people beleive her BS more?  Just one smackdown on the 2026 rule would be SOMETHING at least!  

Why are they letting her RUN this party?  Who's in charge here?

We need Obama now more than ever.  We need to reform Washington, before these spineless fools are all that's left of our party and our leadership.
Clintoon would indeed be singing a different tune about the caucuses had the results been different.  And her signiture is still on the DNC rules when she thought these 2 states would play by the rules and give her a win.  Now all of a sudden, she's got a different slant to all this. She's so tiresome...and so destructive to the Democratic Party.
“The lesson is if you can discern the clear intent of the voter, why would you punish the voter?"
*******************************

So does Hillary ACTUALLY think that giving Obama ZERO votes from MI represents the true "intent of the voter"???? What BS. Giving Obama the uncommitted votes would be the closest thing be ACCURATELY representing the will of the MI voters, but of course she doesn't really care about that. She just wants to win. She is despicable.
There are 5-8 lies/manipulations -- depending on your definition -- in Hillary's statements.

All of them are playing on people's emotions -- particularly Floridians who were treated badly in 2000 and again by their state leaders in this primary.

ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING.
Clinton is so full of it, I can't believe my republican friends were right about her all along. now I have to eat my words for defending her since the monica incident.

she could care less about the party, there have been several deals offered in FLA and MI approved by the Obama campaign and the states. she has turned them all down because she is desperate and thinks its fair to seat them as is when no one campaigned and her old butt has been around 4ever so they voted on name recognition.Even though she said "We all know these votes aren't going to count for anything." and signed a pledge. her signature and word are worth nothing and she wants to be president?!


if she is the strongest candidate as she claims, why doesn't she have the delegates to prove it? she should have enough delegates that it should have been over by now and supers shouldn't need to get involved. she had all the built in advantages her hubby is a two term president! all that money and influence and still behind. she can't take the fact that she is getting beaten by a rookie so she'll just change the rules right?


the superdelegates aren't going to her because everyone knows she is going back on the DNC rules agreed on by EVERYONE because she has no honor and will do anything to win. if popular vote counted and was agreed on AT THE BEGINNING people would have campaigned differently to meet that standard. At least those who knew how to run a campaign...
popular vote means as much now as it did to Prez Gore...

Mike in Chicago, you've hit the nail on the head.  Self-respecting journalists should be red-faced at how they've handled this.  In addition to what you mentioned, I have NEVER seen an interviewer take Howard Wolfson or anyone else in the Clinton propaganda machine to task on the issue on Popular Votes.  It's a worthless metric.  Votes from 4 caucus states can't be included.  
Hillary Clinton is loosing this race.  But she still touts that it's not her fault.  She blames a faulty Democratic process, caucases, Michigan and Florida, sexism, etc.

It's simple.  Hillary ran on an "exprience" platform when most people wanted change.  Also, she continuously changes her personna everywhere she campaigns which makes her look disingenuous (she's from Illinois, Arkansas, Washington DC, New York, Pennsylvania, a big city, a small city, she's the strong candidate, now she's the sensitive candidate, etc.).  Her pandering chameleon tactics just makes her look foolish.

Hillary Clinton has a very high disapproval rating.  It's not just Republicans that hate her.  Many Democrats feel duped for defending her and Bill during the 90's--because they did prove themselves liars.

And as a Democrat, I'm embarrassed at how Hillary constantly bucks her own party.  She's the one demanding that the rules change to favor her race.  We see it with changing the delegate goal, upholding flawed Michigan and Florida votes, poaching superdelegates.

Hillary, please stop.  You and Bill have had charmed lives already.  You already lived in the white house for two terms.  You continue serving in a very elite club as US senator.  You've become a multi-millionaire many times over.  Let some fresh blood into the white house.
Obama ran his campaign to win the delegate fight.  Those are the rules.  To now say it is popular vote is just out of line.  If those were the rules to begin with Obama may have run his campaign differently and won the popular vote.  There is no way to tell.  It would be like playing soccer on a football field where the soccer goal is under the football gaol and giving a team 3 points for kicking the ball over the soccer goal and through the football goal.  Hillary, you have lost the game, period.  As for the argument that the super delegates are suppose to pick the best ccandidate, that too is a stretch.  They are suppose to prevent the party from nominating a certain loser, a candidate who has absolutely no chance of winning.  I don't think that Obama can be described that way.
Not 4 Clinton Anymore!!! ,

Welcome to Obama-land! Glad you saw her for what she is and have made a decision to open your heart to Barack. He is the BEST bet for change and I believe he will make a great President and make us all proud.
Please throw a bucket of water on the hag NOW!!!  She's melting, she's melting, get the Good Witch of the House Nancy to come down and shoo her away.
Hillary is the only hope this party has.
Without her at THE TOP of the Democratic ticket, we are doomed to be defeated (yet again) by the Repuiblicans and John McCain.
ObamaNIACS can yell and scream all they want.....at the end of the day their candidate is just another Michael Dukakis.
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:10 PM)

--------------------------------------------

Wow, we haven't heard from you in ages!  Just remember to show up for the victory party on November 5!
It is a exercise in futility to be on here criticizing either Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.  It doesn't matter what Clinton supporters think about Barack and his chances in November.  Hillary has no chance in November; what is all the debate about?

"Remember:
Oh-bomb-a + Selfish Delegates = Total destruction of the nation whose mess was started by GWBush

Joe Vidden (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 1:03 PM)
======================================================
Your ranting speech above almost gave me pause to think you were intelligent but your constant use of "Oh-bomb-a" totally trashed that argument. It just shows the ignorance and arrogance of Hillary supporters like you who are bitter because she is not going to win. I could be immature and call her Hitlery but it would just bring me down to your level of stupidity. Your rant actually sounds just like Hillary and that fact that you just don't want to see an "uppity n!gger" in the Whitehouse and can do nothing about it is driving you insane. You need to look at your tapes on McInsane when he said, "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" and then you tell me who is more stable and experienced with dealing with our nation's problems in the foreign world. It isn't Hillary, that's for sure, she who wants to "obliterate" a whole country of innocent civilians if their military attacks Israel..yeah, just do some research and rethink your position before you spew your racist name-calling rants on this blog. Hillary has LOST, now get off it and do the right thing to help your party or leave it.

Obama/Sebelius '08!
Hillary is no threat to the Democratic party.  

We the People have the POWER!  It is funny she should mention hanging chads and the voters in Florida in 2000.  Where was her voice in 2000?  And why is she proudly accepting the fact that proud racists folks are much of her base?  She is not a unifier, she is an opportunist and that does not embody America's value.

I remember her saying she loves America for what it can become...well with her, more racist than anything.  Down with the drama and time to turn the page on that ugly chapter of our history.    

All I know is I am one tired proud Democratic American and Democrats need to stop this drama.  As much as the Republicans dislike McFlop, they are with him all the way!

**AS A FLORIDA NATIVE...WE LET BUSH AND HARRIS STEAL THE ELECTION IN 2000 AND HERE WE ARE AGAIN IN 2008, WILLING TO THROW IT AWAY AGAIN.

THE REPUBLICANS HAVE ALREADY PUT FLORIDA IN THEIR WINNING COLUMN...WAKE UP!

I am woman, hear me roar!  PLEASE, PLEASE, MAKE HILLARY GO AWAY!

Fiftyish, white Kentucky woman for Obama!
ARRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

I did not vote b/c my vote WASN'T GOING TO COUNT!  What about those of us who did not show up to the polls?  Unlike FL, there wasn't any compelling issues to get out the vote in the Snowbound state.

SHE SHOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE SHE STARTED LOSING!  Of COURSE she left her name on the ballot - she has every backdoor sewn up - except for an exit strategy.  Or a winning strategy.
They should make a 50/50 split of the delegates. But by no means should any of the vote count!!! This way the voters get a say and Hillary does not get a advantage from her unfair tactics.  By the way it is getting to be time for the lady in the pantsuit to sing.
Lloyd:

When did Canada get a say in this election?

Perhaps Hillary can claim Ottawa and Ontario voters too.
The Clinton's fained concern for the voters end at the edge of the crowd that support Hillary's candidacy. She disses all others as inconsequencial, and of no importance. She openly advocates that the supers overturn the will of the majority of democrats, by way of declaring our decision as 'wrong'.

Her more toxic supporters spouting off incessantly in posts with no let up, and no change in content, (Pat of Huntington NY, and all of the Nobamas come to mind), are just as arrogantly undemocratic.

There are folks in Florida, and Michigan whose votes will not be counted until November, because they believed Hillary when she said that their vote would not count, and stayed home. What about them?

I don't pretend to know what Hillary's intent is with all of her writhing about. However, if the outcome of her shenanigans holds true to form, her, and her supporters pain will only be further deepened, and farther drawn out.
I bet if the DNC would let FL and MI have a re-vote.....Hillary would loose both states, because now voters can see the differences in Obama and Clinton......Hillary must have forgotten about the voters in FL and MI that didn't vote.
This is why Hillary will not be vice president:

Obama can not trust her (or Bill) period!  Enough said.  He needs some one who represents experience and the military leadership who does not have baggage, and can cross party lines:  Colin Powell comes to mind--I wish.

At this point--Hillary needs  to be stumping for Obama just to get back in his good graces--she has a lot to answer for the way she ran her campaign.

And one other thing: you have to be a fool to believe Clinton is ahead in the popular vote--she isn't. As usua she is lying to the American people (twisting the truth)
The truth is is behind in the popular vote even if you count Florida.  It is impossible to count Michigan because Obama's name was not on the ballat. That said, if she did want to throw Michigan into the math, which she has, then she would need to at least give Obama the no contest votes--which she has not. Why? So she can lie to America one last time.  

Really, who could stomach someone that is so coniving. I guess the answer is--other people who are lying and coniving.  

Here is something the exit polls showed in Kentucky that saddens me about that state.  About twenty five percent of the people exit polled said that the reason they voted for Clinton was based on race.  I would also venture that about twenty-five percent were afraid to answer that question for fear of being call a racist--an rightly so.  Which means about fifty percent of the voters for Hillary are racist.

This is sad and Hillary, if she has any character left in her damaged soul at all, should denounce and reject these "racist voters."  

Alas, Hillary has fallen to a very low place, very low.
You know Florida must like to always be in the news. I am beginning to think that there is a conspiracy to get whoever they want by claiming stupidity every time they vote. I am sick and tired of Florida and sick and tired of HRC !!!!!!!!!!
Let's see why don't we give her the delgates from FL and MI (where she agreed with all other candidates to remove her name from the ballot, but did not follow through...sounds like a Clinton to me " I did not have sexual relations with that girl"..."I will remove my name from the ballot"...oh you mean oral sex is sex???...oh you mean leaving my name on the ballot is not removing my name from the ballot. Clinton's are all about what is convenient for them. The problem is they are great politicians, and I do not mean that in a good way, rather a lie cheat and steal way!

So to continue with HRC's name on the ballot she received 55% of the vote 40% where non committed, this can be construed as NOT voting for HRC since she was on the ballot, right? So if those go to Mr. Obama, she would gain exactly 69.6 delgates on Obama from FL and MI, that still leaves her at least 70 delgates behind Obama, she still loses.

Lastly, she is going to say she won the popular vote so she should get the candidacy right? Well a Mr. Gore (who was Scre#ed by Bill's escapades) won the popular vote in 2000, guess what he did NOT get the Presidency.

Can these people play by the rules and lose gracefully, obviously not!
Just think how quickly the republicans gave up on anyone but McCain. All of those complaining about the prolonged democratic primary battle should just shut up, because this is the kind of debate that America needs. Why should she quit as long as a stalemate is possible? Are we still looking for the silver spoon person to lead the country? We should adopt the Russian method of leadership succession, since we expect every candidate to roll over and play dead for the chosen successor. Why do we have elections? Why do we have debate? Why do we have just two political parties capable of winning a presidential election?
Another interesting thing about the FL election.  There was a property tax measure on the ballot.  They had been having ridiculous increases in insurance do to the hurricanes of the last decade.  Homeowners were the greatest many to go to the polls.  If you didn't own a home, the election wasn't (supposedly) counting for anything else, why would you vote?  Check out FL African-American, minority homeownership rates in FL.  Huh?
The voters of Florida and Michigan can be respected and represented without being pandered to.
Are any of you concerned at all that in Oregon (the 3rd most liberal state in the Union) 32% BELEIVE that obama shares Rev Wright's views!!!
Hilly    you do not have the lead if we use the partys math,But we all know that you have a differant new math.Do you not relize that there are many young people(High school students)that are paying attention to this presidential primary.What would you like for them to take away from this class,that you are a really bad loser,that all a woman has to do is to whin and kick and scream that we will give you your way,try to change the rules while we are trying to teach them to play by the rules,lieing and deciving while we try to tell to be truthfull,showing that playing the race card or the sexist card as a way to change the outcome.Would you like your daughter to be in this class?I would expect more from someone that has a daughter and is watching you preform right in front of her eyes.You are doing more harm then good.
I'm with you Jim in FL! case law is already on the books since a federal court ruled in december that the DNC had full authority to uphold their rules.  See Bill Nelson for details since he filed the lawsuit.
"Hillary Clinton said in a radio interview this morning that Democrats should learn from the lessons of the hanging chads from elections past and not ignore the will of the voters."

Well, the voters have given Obama a majority of delegates.

Is she now looking for the superdelegates to overturn the will of the voters like the Supreme Court did in 2000?
And one more thing the republican governor of FL was the one who decided to mess with the primary schedule, yet these HRC candidates want to reward his party for their anger, huh???!
HRC = sore loser
"Oh by the way Keith, nice talk about our troops. Calling the very people who protrect your right to free speech, 'cold blooded murderers,' isn't very patriotic. Now, is it?
J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 9:17 AM)"

What are you, a moron?  KO cleared that up on Monday.  Shut up.

########################

"So to sum up, Obamaorons, screw you and your Deity Barry. Go Hillary
truthteller (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:30 AM)"

Oooooo...THAT'S going to make me support Hillary.  Good arguement!  Wow - you must have been tops in your debate class.

###################################

"Obama is losing his votes in Florida and Michigan because he is the only one fighting these issues.
What a cheater
alice rea, greenville, sc (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:36 AM)"

OMG - Alice, are you learning impaired?  IT WAS THE MI Legislature that made that decision - NOT Obama, Hillary, or anyone else.  It would have been against our state constitution to revote.  Just regurgitating HRC talking points do not make them TRUE!
Why doesn't someone just call Clinton out on all this; this is absurd!  She is not looking for a graceful exit, she is looking for a way to sneak in the window and steal the nomination.  Will no pundit simply point out that Clinton had an opportunity LAST YEAR to voice her concerns about the nominating process, whether it be the exclusion of FL and MI, or the use of caucuses?  Where was her passion for a new process then?

The real problem is the democratic party leadership and their inability to move this thing in a clear direction and allow Clinton's rhetoric to feed and sustain party division. She has been allowed to fan the flames of racial and cultural division, she has been allowed to make sexism in aspect of this campaign.  Yet no one will come out and say "what is the point?"

The point is that Hillary Clinton still wants the nomination and she's trying to figure out a way to do it.  The point is that she doesn't know how to quit.  When Romney left the republican race it was because he saw he was not going to be the nominee.  Clinton on the otherhand is incapable of making that concession.  She can't envision how the country can be changed, how the democrats can succeed without her.

Unfortuntaley the press is a willing accomplice, and all the pundits who say she has a right to stay in.  The real question should be: how does the democratic party put its best and most forceful foot forward and put out a message about the future of this country.  The time to have a discussion about the nominating process is AFTER the nomination is sewn up...do a post mortem.

Clinton's presence in FL is a distructive distraction for the national debate that needs to take place, and I for one will encourage a boycott of the democratic party because of their inability to respond to the need of the times due to the ambition of a junior senator.  And frankly, the support she has out there, in appalachia and other places is merely another form of idiocy by a group of folks who voted for Bush in the last two elections even though he has sent their sons to die in wasteful war.

You want Hillary, you want McCain?! Vote for them!!  And see where it gets you...
She is a republican.  Carl Rove the man who is in in trouble with the law.  She would envoke his name as he goes through questions regarding his tactics.  She uses his name.  She is a fraud.
I said it before, I'll say it again...had Florida and Michigan's primaries been allowed to proceed as originally planned in January, this race would be over by now.  At that time, HIllary was the presumptive favorite. She would have won both states! Such early big wins would have given her unstoppable momentum in the primaries that followed and in money.  Obama would've been left in the dust!  

Mr. Chairman! Seat those Delegates, as they voted in January!!!!!


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1048550

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google