Circle your calendars

Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:06 PM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Democrats, 2008, Delegates

From NBC's Mark Murray
The next big date on the calendar isn't June 1 (Puerto Rico) or June 3 (Montana, South Dakota). It's Saturday, May 31 -- the date of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee hearing on Florida and Michigan.

The DNC has just released the details on the meeting: It will take place in DC; it has a morning session (oral arguments) that begins at 9:30 am ET and an afternoon session (consideration and debate); and it's allowing the public to attend.

But there are caveats to this attendance: Space is limited and guests must pre-register. Also: "In order to maintain the decorum of the meeting, banners, posters, signs, handouts, and noisemakers of any kind are strictly prohibited. Also, please be advised that the agenda for the meeting does not include time for questions from the general public."

Of course, it's once again important to note that seating the Florida and Michigan delegations -- even exactly as Clinton wants them -- doesn't do much to change the delegate math. Clinton still needs to win an overwhelming number of the remaining superdelegates to clinch the nomination, whether the magic number is 2,026, 2,210, or somewhere in between.

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Comments

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
MI and FL need to eat it! They broke the rules and lost their right to vote, end of story.

twocanpete (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:11 PM)

What would it look like if it were winner take all like the republicans? Who holds the lead then?The leftist or the centrist?

kenn (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:12 PM)

MAY 31st IS "D" Day for Howard Dean and the DNC.

Dean needs to FINALLY step up to the plate and BE A MAN! COUNT THE DAMN VOTES DEAN!! Last I checked - this is AMERICA!!

pa voter (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:18 PM)

May 31st... when Hillary tries to steal the election.

Stay Vigilant.

Reality, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:20 PM)

Hillary only cares about winning after all it was she who said "this is about me". Willing to take her own party out. Show our children...it's not following the rules that counts it's about who you know and how they can help you tweak it to your advantage.... what sickness this will show our kids.

Seriously ! (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:20 PM)

kenn...

We only have Democrats running. I know that's confusing if you back John Bush...er..George McCain...er...John McBush...er...

BobW Mendon, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:20 PM)

You mean Hillary Huckabee will finally go away then?

Oh, joy!!!

OBAMA '08

Crazy for Obama - Glenwood, IL (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:20 PM)

Kenn - the answer is Obama. Count it any way you want and Obama is still the winner.

patty,sd,ca (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:21 PM)

I for one am sick of the "if we were republicans it would be over" argument. We aren't. This is the Democratic Party. Play by the rules. You either win or lose but do it fairly!

TJ, Maryland (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:21 PM)

Well it ISN'T winner take all, thank goodness ! I've always thought that is a terrible way to count the votes ... it's far too easy to get a skewed picture of the actual vote. The proportioned allocation of delegates better reflects the actual votes cast.

sunny, nv (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:21 PM)

It is time for the superdelegates via the Rules Committee to step up and do their job. Is this the same Rules Committee that created this mess to begin with?

Sharon in CT (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:22 PM)

THIS IS NOT THE REPUBLICAN CONTEST!!!!!!! So, quit trying to make that stupid argument. If wishes were horses, we'd all ride; and if Grandma had...she'd be Grandpa; if dreams were lighting and thunder were desire, this old house would've burnt down a long time ago.

Kate in Atlanta (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:22 PM)

FL has to be seated more so than Michigan.... if we lose FL again, we'll have to beat John McCain in states that Democrats haven't won since President Clinton...

that's why Hillary is more electable - b/c of FL, OH, and PA... these states have rejected Obama (VA, CO, and Missouri will not make up for losing the 3 most impt swing states)

CowboyJack (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:22 PM)

MI and FL need to eat it! They broke the rules and lost their right to vote, end of story.

twocanpete (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:11 PM)

Florida's REPUBLICAN govt was responsible for the violation-not dem voters in Florida!!

Bobbi, Eau Claire, WI (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:22 PM)

This whole nomination race jumped the shark.

Let's hear more about how McCain is afraid of two-bit dictators and yet wants to be in charge of the world's only superpower military.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:22 PM)

What would it look like if it were winner take all like the republicans? Who holds the lead then?The leftist or the centrist?

kenn (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:12 PM)
------------------------------------------------------
Not all states were winner take all in the Republican primaries.

OBwan, IN (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:23 PM)

We will see, but she knows it won't make a big difference so why would we believe that day will end her arguments?

It is my belief that she has not cared to this point, so why not take it to the convention?

Most of the American people have walked on egg shells to not trample on her feelings, but enough is enough!
She needs to either play by the democratic rules or change over to the republicans; since she values their opinions over commom sense.

Michelle Zee (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:23 PM)

The evil democrats in fla an MI need to look only at the leaders of thier party.The evil people of MI and FLA new better they were threatened what were they thinking OOHHHH they had no say so throw em out anyway just like a demorat,turn on his fellow demorats good show.

kenn (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:23 PM)

Here is the solution to Michigan and Florida:

Split the Michigan delegates 50-50 as Obama was not even on the ballot nor did he campaign there according to the rules. Give Hillary her 105 in Florida and Obama his 76 (that includes the Edwards delegates as Edwards has endorsed Obama). If Michigan and Florida can't live with that then too bad so sad.

The result: The delegates from both States are seated and happy because they can go and party in Denver and Obama still wins. Sounds very fair to me.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:24 PM)

I am wondering if seating of MI and FL after they violated DNC rules is not like encouraging violation of rules. In other words, who ever advocate seating of these two states delegates (nothing against the voters of the states rather those who violated the rules) is acting just like GW Bush administration, who violated all rules including Geneva, missile teritory and US constitution etc. It means that person presidency should follow same path as GW.

Adam, Minneapolis MN (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:25 PM)

A stage for more Clinton drama.
Will Hillary 'Norma Desmond' Clinton be
center stage?

Deborah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:25 PM)

Coming from South Florida, I find this very interesting, and I, who voted for Obama in early voting, at this stage, do care that the delegates get seated, do not care if they count the votes or not -- Had wished that they voted over, and I would have been happy to, but the state did NOT want to do mail in ballots, and I do not understand why not, and so...I am at the point, I no longer care about race, but do hope our delegates get seated.

Barbara C. - Fort Lauderdale, FL (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:26 PM)

Both states need to have thier votes counted, recorded,and be seated either by half the votes or All the votes. No state should be left out. Lession LEARNED!!!!

Sherron Stawiarz,Monson, MA (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:26 PM)

Twocanpete - While I think we all agree that the voters from MI and FL broke the rules, disenfranchised themselves and brought all of this misery and woe upon themselves, we have to keep our eye on the ultimate goal - November. All 50 states are important to the Democratic Party, and I feel that it is within the best interest of the country to reach some sort of compromise to allow FL and MI delegates to be seated. Sure, they broke the rules, but we need to find a way to forgive them and move on, and everything points to that happening on the 31st. Rather than say "stick it to them", we need to be finding a way to bring these lost sheep back into the party. Not only does it fit within Obama's message of all-inclusiveness, it's also what's best for the entire party. And even though I am a solid, strong Obama supporter, I would even be satisfied giving Clinton everything she wants at the RBC - it's that important to the party. And, even getting everything possible out of FL and MI, Clinton is still so far behind she can't catch up. So go ahead and give it to her, it won't make a difference.

mlhradio (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:26 PM)

The goalpost will move again May 31...because Hillary said so!

John (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:27 PM)

Another article: Obama Camp Quietly Moves To Merge With DNC

A bunch of 'hard working' white people !

Just like those 'white people' in Oregon who voted for Obama !

From Huff Post:
'... Mine Workers union endorses Obama for president

JESSE J. HOLLAND | May 21, 2008 12:08 PM EST |

WASHINGTON — The United Mine Workers of America endorsed Barack Obama for president Wednesday despite his recent defeats in primaries in coal-producing states where many of the union's members vote.

The endorsement continues organized labor's swing over to the Democratic front-runner as the primaries wrap up. Obama lost heavily to Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton in Tuesday's Kentucky primary and last week's West Virginia primary.

"Senator Obama shares the values of UMWA members and our families. He understands and will fight for the needs our members have today and the hopes our members have for a secure future for themselves and their families," union president Cecil E. Roberts said.

The Mine Workers _ along with the United Steelworkers union _ had originally endorsed former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina. However, Edwards dropped out of the race and threw his support to Obama last week and was immediately followed by the Steelworkers union.

Only one union that originally endorsed Edwards _ the United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners _ has not subsequently endorsed Obama.

Obama and Clinton, have been courting unions and their blue-collar voters since Edwards dropped out of the race. The Mine Workers, however, was unanimous in picking Obama for its endorsement, Roberts said.

"Senator Obama will fight to preserve American jobs, not ship them overseas in greater and greater numbers," Roberts said. "Senator Obama will make sure that the nation's mine safety and health enforcement agency actually enforces the law, instead of coddling mine operators who repeatedly and willfully violate the law."

The Mine Workers union represents 105,000 active and retired coal miners, mine construction workers, public service employees, health care workers and manufacturing workers in the United States and Canada.

MSierra, SF (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:27 PM)

Please SDs weigh in now so that the 1.5 million Obama donors can give to the DNC. You know that we will not give until he is named the nominee. Don't you realize that we are a movement? If Hillary steals the nomination the money will dry up....and that is the real math. Signed: NW Obamacan

Tom Reavell (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:27 PM)

I think to handle the only way this thing is a 50/50 split of the delegates from each state. No votes to count.There is no reason to give Clinton an unfair advantages because she chooses not to follow the rules. Funny she did not care about FLand MI when she was the presumed winner. I also notice that it is the Clinton supporters in here calling names. Thank you to all of the Kentuckians that voted for Obama last night.

Brian M De. (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:27 PM)

I just watched Hillary! Uncensored. The documentary about Peter Paul vs The Clintons. If any rational Clinton supports would view this film would they continue to support her? The Republicans are waiting to bring this up should she get the nomination.

I felt sorry for Stan Lee who had his company ruined by the Clintons in the film. Hillary is a crook, a liar and basically evil woman. I can see why this is being banned with MSM. Anytime someone mentions Peter Paul's name on the News Networks, its quietly dismissed.

This woman will say and do anything to win the presidency. I wish anyone besides Fox News would bring this topic during shows like Hardball, Countdown or Situation Room?

Richard, Chicago (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:28 PM)

An inconvenient truth -- math, it is what it is. It is still possible for HRC to win the nomination, but it's not likely.

As of Wednesday, May 21, 2008

(omitting FL and MI)

There are only 296 available delegates (86 of which will be elected) remaining to get to 2026

BHO needs 65.5 or 22.1% of the total remaining delegates
HRC needs 242.5 or 81.9% of the total remaining delegates

IF you count MI: Clinton 73-55; FL: Clinton 105-67

There are still only 296 available delegates remaining to get to 2210

BHO needs 127.5 or 43.1% of the total remaining delegates
HRC needs 248.5 or 84% of the total remaining delegates

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:28 PM)

kenn - What would it look like if you were only allowed 2 strikes per at-bat instead of 3 in a baseball game already played by the 3-strike rule? Why can't Hillary accept the contest rules as defined at the outset?

Fred Flintstone (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:28 PM)

The FLA/MI delegate issue is not HRC's and her campaign team of TWO, she's-via her contributors- trying to bribe superdelegates! Check this out from Huffington Post:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/19/superdelegates-turned-dow_n_102450.html

SGS (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:28 PM)

Man up, Howard Dean. Don't be like an enabling modern
parent. MI and FL arrogantly cut in line. There needs to be some punishment. But the PEOPLE should not be penalized. A compromise that's fair to the candidates too should be decided. MI and FL need to lose something and the people can then kick out their state govt. or committee that got them into this in the first place.
NEXT YEAR-change the whole RIDICULOUS set up!

Deborah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:29 PM)

Kate in Atlanta I might add what my 76 yr old grandad says......if you ain't where ya are, you're nowhere.......Obama 08

laughaday (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:29 PM)

Okay, so we don't disenfranchise the voters. Give FL their delegates. But absolutely, under no circumstance should there be a single super delegate for these two states. Super's represent party 'leaders' whose entire role is to represent the constituency. They failed to provide a contingency or appropriate leadership on this issue which was known for months prior to the election. I blame them and feel that they should have no voice.

As to MI, I perceive that HRC pulled a 'fast one'. When signing the agreement to honor the DNC, she knew Edwards and Obama were honorable and she hedged that knowledge, and left her name on the ballot. They acted in good faith. She acted in self interest. 1/4 of a million people voted NON Clinton. There is no way Obama should get zero delegates out of MI. It seems fair that the NON-Clinton votes should go to the candidate still standing. Since Edwards received delegates and he is swaying them to his endorsee; it seems equitable and consistent. If that is not resolved, MI cannot be counted. I find it interesting that HRC behaved in this manner.

Ironically, when McAuliffe was DNC chair - he took a particular harsh stance completely opposite to his current one on this very topic. Hypocritically Rotten Clinton and her supporters literally speak from both sides of their face on every issue.

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:29 PM)

Look,
I am from FLORIDA. And we broke the rules; we should not be counted - period. It seems that the rules were set - everyone agreed to them - but now, THAT HILLARY IS LOSING - we must try to seat FLorida and Michigan. in other words, the DNC must now entertain matrices to come up with a formula SO THAT HILLARY CAN WIN? Talk about outcome determinative.

Seat Florida and Michigan, but the "Magic No." must not change from 2026 to any larger number. That is what is unpatriotic - changing the rules so that you can fix the outcome of the election.

Bobby H., Miami, FL (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:30 PM)

Have they released the members of the DNC's Rules and Bylaws Committee? I want to see who's on that committee to see if Harold Ickes or any of the other two buffoons who created this mess with their overpunitive punishment are now getting a chance to screw things up even more.

Obviously Hillary "Republican" Clinton has every intention of trying to steal away the rightful nomination of Barack Obama with some backroom deal. She can't win honestly so she'll stoop to any low to win, even if she wrecks the Democratic Party in the process.

Her speech today disgusts me more than ever. I wrote my Senator, Barbara Boxer, and urged her to get off the fence and endorse Obama and to convince the other uncommitted CA supers to follow her lead.

Go Obama 08/12!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:30 PM)

Only, ONLY, the CLINTONS would put the electorate, the Party, other candidates, the media...through such another DRAMA. Come on June 3. Then watch them come up with one more, but, but, but...
Do we need anything MORE to send these
two back home-wherever that is? Everywhere? Pick one?

Deborah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:30 PM)

...And HRC is trying to BUY superdelegates!!!! How FOLKSY IS THAT!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/19/superdelegates-turned-dow_n_102450.html

sgs (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:31 PM)

The elections are bogus and should not be used as a guide. No superdelegates should be seated; they are not innocent victims; they should have known better and spoken out much much earlier.

The primary elected delegates should be apportioned according to final elected delegated totals of the candidates. The voters were innocent victims of their elected officials.

That is my final offer. :)

nuanced (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:31 PM)

...AND she's trying to BUY superdelegates! How FOLKSY is THAT!!!!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/19/superdelegates-turned-dow_n_102450.html

No more mulligans like KY and WV Obama, send her HOME....

SGS, NJ (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:33 PM)

Just staying in to pay off the Clinton debt. Everyone else has already moved on.

http://infogiant.wordpress.com/2008/05/20/clinton-begs-superdelegates-to-allow-her-to-stay-in-the-race/

http://infogiant.wordpress.com/2008/05/21/polls-obama-starting-to-bring-all-demographics-into-his-corner/

Infogiant, austin, tx (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:34 PM)

wocanpete

I am A Floridan and I agree with you. I have sent comments today concerning FL and those who wish to cast aspersions but not one of them has been posted. I guess those who review pick and chose who they will post.

As a Floridian I cast a ballot in the primary but for Amendment 1 ONLY a property tax amendment.

I knew as did everyone else in FL that our votes would not be counted.

While the citizens of FL did not change the primary they did VOTE regardless of the ruling.

I for one do NOT WANT the rules changed to benefit one Hillary Clinton who AGREED that the votes would not be counted and DID campaign in South Beach the Sunday prior to the primary. It was reported in the Sun-Sentinel newspaper.

I have let the DNC as well as Senator Bill Nelson know how I feel about this attempt by Hillary

Let's see if FIRST READ disenfranchises this comment as well.

Hard Working WHITE Female Sr Citizen in FL (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:34 PM)

Think about baseball: Assume the Yankees missed the playoffs because they finished the regular season 2 games behind the Red Sox. Now pretend they argued, "Yes, but we beat the Red Sox 3 times during the exhibition pre-season, so we really have more wins and you should count those games"

They would be laughed out of the Major Leagues!!! You simply cannot change the rules AFTER the fact. I cannot believe the idea of counting FL and MI is even being discussed!

JR (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:35 PM)

Please explain the logic that says because Hillary won "X" state in the primaries, Obama can't win the same state in the general but Hillary can. They are both Democrats, the voters are democrats and the party is the Democrat party. Which of those elements would not be true in both the primary and general elections?

Aren't you really speculating that Democrat voters are so dumb that they wouldn't vote for the Democrat candidate in the general if that candidate wasn't the one they voted for in the primary?

That is either flawed logic or living proof that people can be pretty stupid.

BobW Mendon, NY (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:35 PM)

Yes -- let's all acquiesce to the demand of Queen Hillary -- after all, she IS entitled -- especially since she doesn't have to pay for it. She complains about sexism, but is really milking this (unwarranted, in my opinion) perception that she deserves "deference" - I can't see a male being treated as though he is such a fragile being. Or is it the deference grudgingly offered to a bully? I hope someone at this meeting stands up for voters in caucus states (or don't their votes "count'?)and for voters who did not turn out because they were told their votes did not count -- and PLEASE someone at this meeting - remind Hillary should ALREADY AGREED -in writing - the Fla & MI votes wouldn't count. She is devoid of ethics and her narcissism is nauseating. Please tell this crooked, communist-defending lawyer to go back to whichever state is her home state this week.

Linda S. Albuquerque, NM (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:36 PM)

For all Hillary supporters: It sounds like it's ok to to play the game without rules.

For all Obama supporters: It sounds like you're willing to disenfransize the vote of many millions of Americans.

So, what's the real concensus to reach here?

Remember we're all democrats and this may be a mess created by the Republican party to divide us in a year that is probably the best year ever to democrats to run for office after what Bush has done.
Are we willing to mess this up because of gender or color biases? We'll be stupid to allow the Republican to maneuver our process so much.
What are we going to do about it?
Hillary supporters, stop whinning about what needs to be done and how this election should be hers. It's her defeat and believe me, it's disappointing. But frustration in this primary season cannot and should not dictate our choice to elect a democrat in November. If it's Obama, support him.
Obama supporters, stop showing your "in-your-face" attitude toward Clinton's supporters. Stop blaming everyone on race, and stop your non-sense comments such as "drip, drip, drip." It's childish and immature. Be humble and show respect for all other democrats who don't necessarily believe Obama should be the nominee.

Let's get ready as a unified family to vote Democrat in November.

Bentho, Stratford, CT (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:36 PM)

Am I wrong, or did Sen. Clinton not say that both Michigan and Florida would indeed be disenfranchised if they chose to move their primaries? And,if so...why is she changing her mind? If that is correct, then her change shows lack of consistency and is truly self serving. ** someone who knows(ie. Tim Russert)...please settle this.

PMc in Dallas (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:36 PM)

This whole thing has become very complicated. Why don't we do this. Let's give the nomination to the candidate who is not currently a defendant in a major fraud lawsuit in California. It might be embarrassing for the country if a process server knocked on the front door of the White House with a summons for Hillary.

Obama in 2008. Integrity matters and the Clintons have none. Just ask Peter Paul.

Sick of corruption, sick of the Clintons (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:37 PM)

Hillary does not want a ruling to agree upon . She could care less about the votes in Michigan and Florida. This is merely a vehicle to keep going . She'll protest whatever ruling is made and vow to take the "fight" to the convention floor . Book it.

Jim Fl (Sent Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:38 PM)

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