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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Hillary as Al Gore?

Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 3:48 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ’s Mike Memoli
BOCA RATON, Fla. -- Hillary Clinton painted the delegate disputes in Florida and Michigan as the latest in a long history of fights for voting rights, and said that if Democrats fail to count these states’ votes, the party will “pay not only a moral cost but a political cost.”

Clinton referred to the nation’s founding, the abolitionist movement, suffragists and civil rights activists, and even the 2000 Florida recount in outlining how long people have fought for the principle that every person’s voice should be heard.

“Because of those who have come before, Sen. Obama and I and so many of you have this precious right today,” she said. “Because of all that has been done, we are in this historic presidential election, and I believe that both Sen. Obama and myself have an obligation as potential Democratic nominees, in fact, we all have an obligation as Democrats, to carry on this legacy and ensure that in our nominating contest, every voice is heard and every single vote is counted.”

Clinton came here to Palm Beach County -- the “epicenter” of the recount controversy -- and to this specific senior center where she appeared nine months ago, to argue that for Democrats to now stand in the way of voting rights would belie the party’s principles.

“To do so would undermine the very purpose of the nominating process: to ensure that as many Democrats as possible can cast their votes, to ensure that the party selects a nominee who truly represents the will of the voters, and to ensure that the Democrats take back the White House to rebuild America,” she said. “Now I’ve heard some say that counting Florida and Michigan would be changing the rules. I say that not counting Florida and Michigan is changing a central governing rule of this country, that whenever we can understand the clear intent of the voters, their vote should be counted.”

And specifically referring to the Florida recount, she said she remembered when people argued that votes “should be discounted over technicalities.”

And in a way, she compared her fate to that of Al Gore’s.

“We believe the popular vote is the truest expression of your will,” she said. “We believe it today just as we believed it back in 2000 when right here in Florida, you learned the hard way what happens when your votes aren’t counted, and the candidate with fewer votes is declared the winner. The lesson of 2000 here in Florida is crystal clear. If any votes aren’t counted, the will of the people isn’t realized and our democracy is diminished. That’s what I’ve always believed.”

Clinton urged those in the crowd to visit her Web site and add their names to a petition urging the DNC to move to count the delegates.

“I’m here today because I believe we should keep that faith, listen to your voices, and count every single one of your votes,” she said. “If we fail to do so I worry that we will pay not only a moral cost, but a political cost as well. We know the road to a Democratic White House runs right through Florida and Michigan. If we care about winning those states in November we need to count your votes now. If Democrats send a message that we don’t fully value your votes, we know that Senator McCain and the Republicans will be more than happy to have them.”

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Obama supporter here, but agree with the premise that Michigan and Florida should be seated in some fashion. I believe the best solution is to take away all of Florida's super delegates and seat the full slate of elected delegates. Michigan should have their super delegates taken away and elected delegates halved (with the "uncommitted" vote given to Obama).

This seems equitable to me given how we wound up where we are. It wouldn't make sense to reward the supers in either state (Florida Dems went right along with the Florida GOP in moving the date up after all), and it makes sense to penalize Michigan in some way since it was the Dems who moved the election (Terry McAuliffe has said on multiple occasions that he threatened to halve states' delegations when he was DNC chair and this would be a fair outcome here).

In the final equation, the delegate math still doesn't help Clinton and quite frankly you can't reasonably include popular vote as-is from Florida and (especially) Michigan given they are not representative (since Clinton herself said that the votes "won't count").
"It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything."
- Hillary Clinton, October 11, 2007

For the love of sanity would someone on MSNBC please get Hillary in front of a Camera and continually quote herself to herself until she addresses the empirically true point that she only cares about Florida and Michigan because they are her last hope at the nomination?

Please?

I am not in a position of power.  I have no means by which I can address the Clinton campaign.  But a cable news network does have that power.  And it would behoove the nation of they would write her quote on a two by four and beat her will it until some honesty trickles out.
When Hillary, and her campaign staff are nailed about their 180 degree turn about, with regard to Florida, and Michigan, they respond as if going up the down staircase, or the lack of any moral compass is a non issue.

She is contemptible.

As an African American, I am greatly offended by conflating the Voting Rights Act with Ms. Clinton's desire to be the democratic nominee.  The democratic leadership should put a stop to this before it is too late!  Stop this now!
I am constantly amazed at how far Hillary Clinton will go make herself the winner in this contest. The rules are the rules. She was well aware of this at the time of the primary. Hillary is no team player. I would not want someone of her lack of character to be in the White House.

How dare she use the American people this cynical way by making them think that this position she is taking is for their voting rights. It disturbs me deeply and everyone else I know feels the same way.  We  would just like her stop this!! It's selfish and  demeaning.

Barack Obama is looking better everyday.

GO OBAMA/WEBB '08

Puhlease!  She has unbelievable gall.  Okay she wasn't screaming about the votes back in Jan/Feb when she said everyone knows those votes don't matter for anything.   Now she comes off playing the people's champion fighting for voter's rights.  Give me a break!  She has absolutely no integrity whatsoever.  

How about all of the people who actually understood that the votes weren't going to be counted because they read a newspaper occasionally and didn't show up at the polls?  They don't matter I guess.  But it's easy to fight for it after the fact when yours was the only name on teh ballot in MI and most of the votes in FL went to you because the other candidate did not campaign there.

She is absolutely shameless.

Dear Hillary:

my 25 y.o. daughter who is a registered voter in Palm Beach County did NOT vote in the FL primary because YOU and the DNC and everyone else said it would not count.  Since she's not a property owner, the other ballot issues were not an incentive for her to go to the polls.

So, Hillary -- tell me how you're NOW going to count her vote when she would've voted for Obama?

Oh, and Hillary?  it's not the FREAKIN' popular vote that matters in a primary.  It's the DELEGATES.

55 y.o. educated, working white woman who makes over $50k/yr so Hillary doesn't think I count either.
Hillary:
The recipe for making cookies is on the back of the package.
Peter Paul vs Clinton       Lawsuit: Fraud
claims you bought your Senate seat?
She just says what people want to hear. It's been going like this for a long time. She didn' really care about FL & MI until she needed the votes to win. She should be ashamed. I would like to see the "straight face" too.
If every vote counts why does Hillary want to disregard the 44% of MI votes that were against her?

I agree that FL and MI delegates need to be seated. However, there needs to be some sort of penalty so that this farce doesn't happen again.

And by the way, Mrs Clinton - If you had any objections about the nomination process, why didn't you raise them before the elections began? Oh! you thought you were going to win so everything was OK. Is that why?

I wonder if she told the audience in Palm Beach if she was on of the peopl who decided that their votes WOULDN"T COUNT!
What I don't understand is why the superdelegates wont end this three ring circus, so that we can begin the general election in earnest.  WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR, FOOLS!!!!!!
Wow, far from being "awful" this lady gets it.  If you don't like the votes as they are in Florida then lets have a re-vote where both can campaign away.  Of course, Senator Obama doesn't want that, because he knows he would lose, even with his huge fund-raising advantage.  The consequences of this race for the White House after 8 years of decay of our country on all fronts are far too serious to get it wrong. Hats off to you Hillary.  Never give up. Let the naysayers minimize and belittle you all they want and Lord knows they will, but you can never lose by seeking to empower more voices. Obama will lose that battle every time.    
GO Hillary
I strongly believe it is not a democracy when the news media trys to interfer with people's votes.  They are telling people the election is over but the fact of the matter is ...It is not over until the lady in the pantsuit says its over.  And it is not a democracy if Florida and Michigans votes are not counted.  Democracy means will of the people. Remember that Obama nut jobs.
There was a time when I deeply admired Hillary and Bill Clinton even when he made the big mistake with Monica and all the other things both have been a part of that are not positive I still voice a favorable opinion of them.I am an AA registered Republican who would have voted for her but what she has become is so sad that I think it has destroyed their legacy. I am at this time strongly leaning towards Obama since my choice, Mike Huckabee, did not win the nomination for my pary. Her supporters should be really sadden at what she has become in trying to regain the position she thought was automatically hers but has been lost since 11 straight for Obama.My prayers are with you Dems for the fall because your going to need it.
"Hillary is right, and Obama (as usual) is wrong.
Honesty, Integrity, and Chracter Count.
Obama has NONE of these.  " Sick of the lies...

HAHAHAHHAHAHHAH now that's a good one!! Hillary has honesty? I remember dodging those sniper bullets; Integrity? Yeah, while she let Bill have sex with interns in OUR White House; Character? Yea, Wiley Coyote maybe!
When is losing, winning? When you take it in the best spirit of competition, accept it, and congratulate your opponent.

Baby Tee-Ballers know more about it than Hillary, and her supporters.
Hillary can do one of two things:

1) Fight for the voting rights of people in Florida and Michigan.

2) Fight for the rights of superdelegates to override the people's vote.

She cannot do both.  Why isn't the media hounding her on this blatant contradiction?
We believe the popular vote is the truest expression of your will,” she said. “We believe it today just as we believed it back in 2000....That’s what I’ve always believed.”


Uh really Hillary? Then why in those 8 years, did you not make one effort to change the measure to popular vote from delegates? Riiight, you always assumed 2008 was your year. Until you started losing. NOW suddenly you are all for every vote...unless it's a caucus state, or Michigan where your campaign claims nto one person voted for Obama.  THIS is the only way she can make the case for herself? This is just pathetic and the media needs to call her out on it. She contradicts herself every step of the way. Disgusting.
What an insult to Gore!

Hillary was more than willing to "ignore the will of the voters" when it looked like she didn't "need them" to win - Now - suddenly - the two states that blatantly broke the rules - KNOWING THE CONSEQUENCES of that action - are the most important states in the nominating contest - How is that fair to the 48 other states that followed the rules??

And I'm sick and tired of Hillary's claims that she has "won the most popular vote" - Everyone knows that this would NOT be the case had Obama campaigned in these states - even if he lost them, he would have gotten more than enough additional votes to still be in the lead. Add to that the fact that Hillary "won" in Michigan the way that Castro "won" all of his elections in Cuba - Hers was the ONLY name on the ballot.

She is trying to delegitimize Obama as the nominee and the Super Delegates need to wake up and recognize that before she loses the Dems the White House!! She seems to be operating with the attitude that if she can't have the Presidency - then no Democrat will...yeah - that'll show all of the people who are supporting her because she promises to "fight for them" - um, that doesn't mean putting McCain into the White House and letting them suffer another four or eight years because Queen Hillary didn't rule as she had decreed.
What else is new with the Clinton's they are known for misrepresentation of themselves?
Desperate actions by a desperate candidate.  As much as I want to stop listening to her and stop reading about her, I find myself drawn to continue watching her circus.  She's a train wreck and I can't turn away from the impending crash.  
We teach our children to play by the rules and yet Hillary who is running to be the president cannot abide by that.  

I would like to hear a clear rationale from a Clinton supporter as to why these votes should be counted when both the DNC and the candidates agreed BEFORE the election that they would not.  Obama did not campaign in those states, he did not advertize in those states and his grassroots organization was not put to work in those states.  Throughout this process, Obama has demonstrated state by state that even when he was 20+ points behind her in a state, once his campaign got going in that state, he significantly closed the gap or ended up beating her.  He never got a chance to do that in Michigan and Florida and he wasn't even on the ballot in one of those two!  It is so comically unfair to him to seat Florida and Michigan and it is comically childish to ask for them to be seated just b/c HRC "won" in those states.
Hillary is mentally deranged, we need to face that.  It's obvious that a lot of Super delegates are afraid of her.  Others are probably being black mailed.  I have great sympathy for these Supers...nonetheless, they need to move against their fears and put a stop to this evil woman.  They are, after all, our leaders.  If they don't stand against her now, it will only get worse and she will become more dangerous.  They wanted leadership positions...now is the time show their courage.
Senator Clinton, you're smarter than this.

You're in essence arguing equal protection and it doesn't apply here.  This is not the general election.  These are primary elections to determine the Democratic Party's nominee and are then subject to the DNC's rules.  Since the DNC is not a government body, it is not subject equal protection.

If your claim is to demand that every single vote be counted, I'd suggest you go get an official count from the caucus states.  Better yet, go argue for a count from the districts in New York City that on Super Tuesday in the New York Primary registered 0 votes for Senator Obama.
Sure Hillary can be Al Gore: currently unemployed! Maybe she can make a film about healthcare...
Hillary as Al Gore, what in drag? Oh wait that w/b Al as Hillary, well same idea.


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