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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC Political Researcher



Bill pitches popular vote

Posted: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 6:00 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ’s Matthew Berger
SAN JUAN, P.R. -- Bill Clinton also said winning the popular vote “will prove she’s the popular choice of the Democrats,” despite ending with less delegates than Obama, the former president said in an impromptu press conference on the streets of Old San Juan.
 
“And the party will have to decide whether they believe the caucuses -- where you get about one delegate for 2000 votes -- are more important than the primaries where you get one for 12,000,” he said. “And that this really astonishing race, where both have run amazing campaigns, they’re gonna have to decide how to resolve this.
 
“But at least she will have been able to make her best case there,” he said.
 
Clinton also reiterated his calls for delegates from Florida and Michigan to be seated by the Democratic National Committee when it meets this weekend.
 
“We should find a way to let everybody vote and have all the votes be counted and have a decent and honorable slate of delegations from Florida and Michigan,” Clinton said. “Those people are important to our future. It's hard to imagine how we bring America back without their involvement and it's hard to imagine how a Democrat could run for president without their support. So she, Hillary's for them to be seated and to be seated in a fair way all the way along. She's offered to go there and run again, that was turned down. She's offered everything in the world to help them, so I think it's up to the Democratic committee to do the right thing.”
 
Clinton was mobbed through the narrow streets of the Puerto Rican capital’s shopping district. Local police and Secret Service formed rope lines on each side of the street, and the former president and daughter Chelsea walked several block shaking hands.
 
The crowd was so loud that most of the president’s answers to press questions were inaudible. The campaign arranged for a second press conference several blocks away, so Clinton could promote Hillary’s trip back to Puerto Rico this weekend.
 
He said he was gratified by recent polls showing Clinton winning in Puerto Rico.
 
Earlier in the day, he and Chelsea visited with students at a photojournalism school for children. Flash bulbs illuminated the stage as most of the students took pictures of the president as he spoke and invited them to shoot Hillary’s Friday night rally in San Juan. At the end, he was presented a camera and began shooting his own images of the children.

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Comments

SHUT UP BILL
The Clintons are turning into cartoon characters

So sad...................Give it up and play the rules

What is the meaning of "is"?  Everyone remember this little line.............good bye Clintonians
Hellooooooo. Obviously he didn't get the memo. IT'S A DELEGATE GAME!!!
ohhhh dry up and blow away already!
The public has the INTERNET to check facts and NEWS Bill...
it's over!
We know...We know it's a right wing conspiracy...
or a gender conspiracy...
or a left wing conspiracy...
it 's just one big disrespectful conspiracy...
b/c YOU, THE CLINTONS have always been wronged!!
just go away....will you please...it's time to move forward...not backwards!!
I never heard the Clintons complain about the caucus states when they helped get him the nomination.

Now that Hillary can't pull it off, they're flawed and should be discounted?

Hmmmm
The Clintons, Bush & McCain masters of propaganda & Lies.
Every vote counts. Unless you're a Democrat. Then it's whatever you want it to be.
BILL & HILLARY ARE PATHOLOGICAL LIARS.  

BOTH BILL & HILLARY AGREED WITH THE DNC 'RULES COMMITTEE' --- TO PUNISH FLORIDA AND MICHIGAN BY NOT COUNTING THEIR VOTES AND NOT SEATING THEIR DELEGATES.
(REASON: THOSE STATES BROKE PARTY PRIMARY RULES.)

NOW BOTH BILL & HILLARY HAVE CHANGED THEIR POSITIONS 180 DEGREES --- AND YOU ALL ARE THOUGHT TO BE STUPID ENOUGH TO FALL FOR THEIR PHONY ARGUMENT.  ARE YOU AS STUPID AS THE CLINTONS THINK YOU ARE????
.....................................................
"despite ending with less delegates than Obama" You don't know that...the Super-delegates may put Clinton over the top...so try to be fair...try...hard as it is for you at MSNBC...try.
So good old Bill wants to disenfranchise the causus states. It sure sounds like Bill wants the party to split leaving Hillary the opportunity to run in 2012.

What is wrong with completing the nomination process subject to the rules that it was run under? I am so sick of hearing the same crap from the Clintons. Today it is the popular vote (which they don't have). Tomorrow we will revert to poor Hillary the victim, and the media conspiracy against Hillary.
They are unbelievable.  Again, they are complaining that something is unfair - the caucuses.  Just like they're complaining that the decision to not seat the MI and FL delegates is unfair, even though everyone (including Sen. Clinton) agreed that they should not be seated, until she realized she was losing.  Caucuses have always been a part of the primaries, even when Bill Clinton was running for president.  So why are they now claiming they are unfair?
Poor Bill...  Betcha this costs him in future speaking fees...  His 'legacy' is so tarnished...

And to think I voted for him...  twice...  

Obama 08
Why are you guys continuously reporting on these B.S. claims, notions, scenarios , and incorrect statistics that the Clintons claim? are there claims so laughable that you can't resist posting them or are YOU holding on to that Clinton silver lining that turns green because it is fake?
Sorry. You can't change the rules in mid-game. It's over my friend.

Ryan
lessons in brevity: http://www.mofata.com
Oh Bill will you just shut up and go  away now please?

I can;t believe a former President of the United States is desperately begging for votes in Puerto Rico, a place that doesn't even get to vote in the General.

And Bill, in case you have forgotten, THE POPULAR VOTE DOESN'T MATTER!!!!

We all know you Clinton's don't like to play by the rules, but you can't just go making things up in the middle of the game, trying to make people believe that the popular vote will decide who is the nominee.

And Bill, I really like how you AGAIN slam all us in the caucus states, claiming that OUR votes really don't mean much.

And one more thing Bill, funny how you  didn't  mention the fact that a proposal was made to seat the delegates in Michigan and YOU turned it down, UNWILLING to compromise.

Whatever Bill.

You and your wife are old, tired news.

Please just pack it up and go away.
Sore lossers

Despite anything Bill or Hillary says the democrates will win the white house. But of course that is unless Clintons continue to split the democratic party.

I am a long time republican and leaning very much toward Obama but if Hillary gets anywhere near the ticket its back to Republican. The Clintons are this country's most polarizing figures ever to appear in the political scene in my Lifetime. If she gets the ticket there will be HUGE republican movement to make sure Hillary is not President.
“And the party will have to decide whether they believe the caucuses -- where you get about one delegate for 2000 votes -- are more important than the primaries where you get one for 12,000”

...

And -THIS- is the argument Bill Clinton wants to make to the people who provide one delegate for 1 vote!!!???

COME ON.  

Why doesn't the press call the Clintons on this type of rediculous argument?  And they have the temerity to claim the press is being harsh on them.
There is nothing to decide.  The decision was made before the campaigns started.  Perhaps Bill means we will have to decide if we are going to change the rules for Hillary.
The Clintons are the most insincere people.

I have to admit, I am enjoying their pain, and frustration.

I'm planning a Rules Committee party scheduled for Saturday.

All of the refreshments will be named after Hill, Bill, and the Clinton surrogates.

Ex: The dessert = Clinton's Concession Cake, made with bitter sweet dark chocolate. (Bitter for them. Sweet for us)!

   
More BS!

Clinton need to take a vacation in Dubai they will get a grand welcome there from Bill's business partners..



Go Obama!
Bill is in real danger of causing his head to explode.

winning the popular vote “will prove she’s the popular choice of the Democrats,”

To prove who is the popular choice of the Democrats you will need to remove the Independent and Republican votes from the totals. Has anyone done that? Has Bill or Hillary done that?  Not that it really matters since that isn't the party system for choosing nominees

How can the Clintons argue that the popular votes matter, but only if the DNC removes the votes from the caucus states? How can the Clintons argue that every vote should matter, then ask the SDs to overturn the majority of voters who've voted for Obama and choose Clinton instead?

This is just ridiculous. No one was complaining about the Democratic Primary system until Hillary started to lose.
Bill, where were you in December 2007, and January 2008 when these decisions were made?
I am tired of this lame argument.Popular votes, if you ignore the caucus states, don't mean squat. If you include Michigan, it doesn't mean squat.
Split the Michigan votes 50-50. Divide the Florida delegates as they were voted. Devalue all the votes by 1/2. Do not give any validation to the "popular vote" argument. Problem solved.
Hillary is no longer relevant.
"So she, Hillary's for them to be seated and to be seated in a fair way all the way along. She's offered to go there and run again, that was turned down. She's offered everything in the world to help them, so I think it's up to the Democratic committee to do the right thing."

My God, Bill Clinton is shameless.  Just in this statement alone, let's count the lies (er, misspeakings):

(1) Hillary was AGAINST counting Florida and Michigan - until she realized they were her last, desperate chance to win the nomination.

(2) There was a re-vote proposal in Michigan - where her backers would have paid for the primary.  Public elections can't be financed with private money.  Slick Willie knows this, but just won't say it, as it is an inconvenient truth for his wife.

(3) "Offered everything in the world"?  Really?  Then why did she turn down Michigan's proposed 69-59 pledged-delegate split?  Why has she turned down 50% delegate reductions in Florida and Michigan?  

For the same reason she didn't care about these states when the sanctions pwere passed last year, and the same reason she is now so concerned with their disenfranchisement.  Because it's convenient for her.

When you're talking about Hillary Clinton, it's never about the "we", and ALWAYS about the "me".  She didn't give a damn about those states - until she realized she needed them to extend the nomination process and hopefully bully enough SDs to switch to her.  Shameless, pathetic - and ultimately unsuccessful.
pay no attention to the man behind the fat lady.
Hmmm... Why are so many MSNBC/First Read bloggers pro-Obama? I'd like to see someone on this blog scrutinize Obama. He's really not that impressive.

McCain '08
How can you talk disenfranchisement of FL and MI when you are eliminating voters of caucus states?  Short-sighted and shameless.
So, Bill "invited them to shoot Hillary Friday night in San Juan." Sounds like a plan to me.
Oops! Just threw up in my mouth.

the clintons suck - they are not about what america stands for - go away

anybody but hillary
She's only winning the popular vote if you do not count the caucas states & if you count FL & Michigan giving Obama zero votes in Michigan.  

I really don't know how Hillary Clinton and her campaign can make such assertions and keep a straight face.  Evidently they are very good at it.  That fact tells me a lot !!  I don't believe a single thing that comes out of that spin machine.

Still lying, Bill?  Ugly.  
Bill Clinton is an idiot.  I'm from Washington State, and am deeply offended by the suggestion that my states delagates shouldn't count because we had a caucas.  Throwing out Washington, and Iowa- two critical swing states in the fall for no better reason then your candidate lost them is insane.

We followed all of the rules, unlike Michigan and Florida.  Both campaigns competed here, unlike Michigan and Florida.
Why is OK for a former President to dismiss the validity of caucuses?  Why are folks in caucus states not calling the Clinton campaign to task on this? It is profoundly undemocratic of the president and the senator.  
Guess what Bill -- you and your team helped put together a lot of the rules by which the Dem nomination is decided, including the infamous Texas 'two-step' that you've since derided.  If you don't like caucuses (after the fact, and because your wife did a piss-poor job of competing in those states), you should have pushed these states to run primaries instead.  Changing the rules to benefit yourself after you've already LOST is ridiculous.

And BTW -- why the HELL should Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, etc. have ANY impact on all of this?  They can't vote in presidential elections!!!  Also, why the hell does PR have more delegates than many states (including Indiana and Oregon)?  
Blunt truth--there's no such thing as a valid "nationwide popular vote" for either parties nominees.  Votes DO count in each state's process, but the processes are so radically different that there is no "apples to apples" way to add them up.  Fixating on a version of the popular vote that supports your favorite candidate (because at the end of this process, BOTH major candidates will have equally (in)valid "nationwide popular votes" to point to) only guarantees a more deeply divided party as supporters of the losing candidate point to a "nationwide popular vote" that "proves the nomination was rightfully theirs."

This is not a conspiracy by the DNC--the RNC sets it up the same way.  In fact, the reason there is no "nationwide popular vote" is becuase of a LACK of DNC/RNC control--each state is free to choose it's own nominating process within the party rules (which focus on schedule, as MI/FL have verified).  So you end up with multiple processes that aren't directly comparable:

- Primaries
- Caucuses
- Open events (independents/crossovers allowed)
- Closed events (no independents/crossovers)
- Mixed (think "TX two-step")
- "Beauty contests" (non-binding votes)

To make matters worse for a "nationwide popular vote," thousands in MI and FL did NOT vote in their states events because they were told it would not count--so why vote if you have other things to do?

Thousands more in FL and (especially) MI crossed over to vote in the Republican election because at least that way their votes would count 1/2.

Just to make things funnier, there are multiple "primaries" in places that don't get to vote at all in the General Election (PR, VI, Guam, overseas Dems , etc).  So why count those at all for a "nationwide popular vote?"

And further amusement:  Sen Clinton supporters are building her case for nomination on a two-step of their own:

- In the primaries, it should ultimately be about popular vote, not delegates
- In the general election, it should be about electoral votes, not popular vote

I believe MI/FL should and will have delegate slates that reflect the unfortunately flawed processes there--but in my opinion the closest thing to a fair vote would be:

- FL as is

- MI as is w/ "uncommitted" awarded to Obama (he followed the rules--like Biden, Dodd, Edwards, and Richardson.  Furthermore, while it's unlikely Obama takes all 40+% of the vote that was "uncommitted" it's just as unlikely Clinton gets 55% if she actually has to run against other major candidates)

- Both states count 1/2 (this is actually in the DNC rules--the Clinton-dominated DNC voted in 2007 to go beyond their own rules to send a signal, thus creating this mess)

So we reflect the flawed votes, uphold the rules written into the DNC charter/followed by the other states/territories in the process, and move on to unite the party.  What's wrong with that?
This specious line of argument is designed to tear apart the democratic party for the sake of the Clinton's own ambition. These people are dispicable, even for politicians.
Christ on a Crutch this popular vote argument is ridiculous.

The only way they get to this number is if they don't count the caucus states. In other words, they are actively arguing that voters in those states shouldn't count, e.g., they should be disenfranchised.

And they are making this argument while crying crocodile tears about the poor voters in Fla and Mich.

If it wasn't so insulting, it would just tragic.
This behavior is for a psychiatrist to figure out.  

DNC must get its act together,  support Obama and start raising some money. Obama cannot do it alone.
I don't recall your having a problem with caucuses when they helped you to win the nomination, Bill.
THE CLINTON GANG once again wants to circumvent the law and change the process with their own self-entitlement"rules".  The election proceess is ALL ABOUT the DELEGATES.

Just like Bill Clinton made his "best case" against his own wife when he CHOSE, GENNIFER, PAULA and MONICA and with the dress to prove it.


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