Obama had the votes for 50-50 MI split

Posted: Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:01 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Chuck Todd
Per multiple sources inside the closed Rules and Bylaws Committee lunch, Obama actually had the votes to get a 50-50 delegate split out of Michigan -- but by just a vote or two.

However, it was decided to go with the 69-59 split to win a larger majority. That measure passed 19-8.

*** UPDATE *** Also, according to those with knowledge of the Michigan agreement, it is fair to claim Clinton the winner of Michigan. But they caution against counting her popular vote in the state.

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Comments

Harold Ickes should be sent on the next Mars Rover. He's the epitome of arrogance and shows no class--heck of a representative for Hillary Clinton.

Reality Check (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:07 PM)

So, is that legit, or just "leaked" spin to make it appear as though Obama was playing nice?

anon (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:08 PM)

Making concessions to unify the party. What a grand idea. I wish Wormtongue-Ickes and the Hillary partisans would do the same for the good of the party and the good of the country.

Rob Dood, Philadelphia (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:09 PM)

Obama is one brilliant politicain!

donna (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:09 PM)

Good - maybe this will shut up the
"no fair" - calling babies. Lets see major concession re: Florida and taken the poorer of the deal in Michigan -- way to go Obama. It was great to watch this on MSNBC - and confirmed my suspicion that Hillary's supporters show just as much class and respect for compromise for the greater good as the Queen does -- absolute zeroes.

Lindas S., Albuquerque, NM (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:09 PM)

Magnanimous of the Obama campaign. Again.

Sue, Chicago (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:09 PM)

Obama had the votes all right.

He could have humiliated her.

However, that is not his style... he won't play the Rovian game of 51-49.

Splattered guts politics (eh, Harold?)

Thank God we have been spared another Bush/Clinton regime.

Obama had the votes.

He still does.

Mark Thieme (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:10 PM)

I just wonder about this party, its decisions, such as use of super delegates, and whether I want someone from this party making decisions for a nation.

Philip Bird, Alvin, Texas (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:10 PM)

Idiot yells at mirror

Jon, Pittsburgh, PA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:11 PM)

What a day :)

Fortunately I missed most of it, having back to back activities but listed to some on satellite radio in the car.

Reading up now.

Go Obama!

Lisa, New Britain, CT Quite for Obama! (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:11 PM)

Barack Obama knows it's more important to have party unity through compromise than to stick to one's position and get disunity. Time for the sore loser to accept party unity over her own selfish desires.

That's why Barack Obama has won over so many hearts and minds from all walks of life this year and why he is the inevitable winner come next week. Time to join together to send our common enemy, "Bush Hugger" McCain, into political retirement where all Reagan foot soldiers belong!

Go Obama 08/12!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:11 PM)

Wow...

I'd have loved to have seen Ickes' reaction to that.

I think we actually would have seen his head explode.

Pete - Albany, NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:12 PM)

So for all you Clintonites screaming that Obama was given preferential treatment and your girl got robbed, take a good look at this...she actually was allocated MORE votes than what the committee first voted for. Showing once again that Clinton HAS been getting the better treatment from EVERYONE while all the while proclaiming herself a victim! Puh-leeze!

CB, Hadley, NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:12 PM)

Obama could have insisted that neither contest counted (you know, not compromise like Hillary). Those were the rules that Harold Ickes voted for. For the sake of unity, he chose to accept the solution that was generally acceptable to those Democrats who actually want to win in Novemeber.

Ian (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:13 PM)

Thanks for the non-stop coverage Chuck and company. Time for you all to go home, kick back and have a drink ...that is, until the primary tomorrow...

I was pleasantly surprised by the outcome, although I'm still nervous on the Ickes threat. I won't feel comfortable until there are no more threats coming from any direction.

Marihelen (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:14 PM)

Senator Obama's campaign could not have been more gracious to Clinton. I'm sure she will not acknowledge it, so I did. I am very impressed with the restraint of the Obama camp in the spirit of party unity to not make excessive demands. Senator Obama is the true winner in this process.

Senator Obama did well (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:14 PM)

Greetings Todd,

Give it a break...this contest is over...get behind the winner now their may be something in the new Obama adminstation for you..

In any case this was a surperb,logical,fair and reasoned outcome debated in the public in a democratic manner ...Mr.Obama is the new super star in Ameircan politics the Clinton era has ended........ Watch the newpudits try and paly the what will the clintons and Co do now to farstall the the title wave of supprt and eleveation of the the FIRST Black (African) America President, Barack Obama

Go Obama 08

MDW Woodisde California (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:16 PM)

I have been a political junkie since I was in high school 55 years ago.

Of all the political numbers information thrown about on every media outlet, Chuck Todd's analysis is the best of anyone's, anywhere. AND...MSNBC's total political package and political coverage team is also the best out there. No one else is even close!

Ernest Salomon
ERNIE SALOMON-LIVE!
tv-17
THE SIGHTS AND SOUNDS OF SANTA BARBARA, CA

Ernest Salomon, Santa Barbara, CA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:16 PM)

linton got what she wanted, they were not supposed to be seated. Clinton even said it when she was the front runner.Now that she is behind she is some type of freedom fighter for them blaming the DNC for not seating them when she was one of the people who agreed. Talk about flip flopping...you signed and agreement HIL stick to it..I wonder what she will do when she signs a peace agreement as president.

KC, Chichago, IL (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:16 PM)

Buchanan, Scarborough, Limbaugh, Hannity, are somewhere huddled togehter sharing, and breathing into a brown paper bag! Today's moral victory for Obama, must be very demoralizing for them.

Lastly, beware of the repub posters here. Their intent is to sew the seeds of doubt among us.

It is time for democrats to be confident!

aleese (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:17 PM)

I'm soo glad that the Obama campaign behaved themselves!
If the shoe was on the other foot there would not have been this push to seat the Florida delegations . . . at least not from the Clinton camp.

The rulings were just! After all the back and forth, and changing the rules that she tried, after all the Sexism, conspiracy, media scrutiny that she alleges she was a victim of . . . People didn't buy it!

God does not like UGLY!!

matthew (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:17 PM)

There is an issue. . .

If rules are rules; if both the Obama and Clinton camps agreed to the rules and levied penalties; if the Democratic Party is to have any future validity;

WHY WAS THIS PROCESS EVER UNDERTAKEN?

Senator Clinton agreed to the rules and the levied penalties against Michigan and Florida. When it became clear that she was trailing in the popular vote and delegate count, the good Senator got a case of "specified amnesia" and started calling for every vote to count.

In the obvious presence of such abject hypocrisy, and the "powers that be" refusal to call it what it is, do "RULES" matter any longer?

Chuck Johnson (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:17 PM)

Clintons out maneuvered and outclassed once more. Please,no one go on about how Bill Clinton is the 'greatest political mind' unless you put it in the past tense.

Deborah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:18 PM)

Astonishing. I'm not sure there was any positive way to end this disaster. But what else could they have done other than choose to try again in four years?

Steve C., Elkridge, MD (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:19 PM)

CLINTON SUPPORTERS = LOW CLASS

mary lee atlanta georgia (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:19 PM)

Icke's behavior, Liz Smith's whining, and the Clinton supporters all damaged the Democratic Party and the USA and Michigan and FLorida beyond repair. Well, that is, until Barack Obama is officially named the nominee. Then and only then will the party gain credibility. And, NO! don't bother with the Credentials Committee!

Michigan Wants Obama and Florida too (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:20 PM)

As a long time Democrat, I was shocked to hear one of HRC supporters, namely Harold Heckes, suggest that by resolving the Michigan delegate matter, the DNC was engaging into an affirmative action to benefit Barak Obama. Is this guy serious? He is suggesting that Barak is the beneficiary of an affirmative action ruling by way of the DNC through this process? Can a black person win a contest squarely without people of Harold's status resorting to name calling? Is this the only way HRC camp can explain MI total disregard of the rules? Further, I was appalled by MSNBC reportage of the event, where all reporters (Andrea Mitchell, Rachel Maddow etc..) conveniently omitted to mention this very offensive discourse.

terrimoto, Gig Harbor, WA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:21 PM)

How can she have 'WON' a no-contest?
Against whom? Gravel, Kucinich and NON-COMMITTED???

Deborah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:21 PM)

Ernest in Santa Barbara:

You got that right!

Mark Thieme (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:21 PM)

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
DNC throws HRC under the bus! Wow.

twocanpete (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:22 PM)

While I'm somewhat in the camp of Donna Braziles, when she said "this is just cheatin'," this is an acceptable agreement. I feel that this meeting should never have taken place to discuss the reinstatement of the delegations of Florida and Michigan because the two states' parties knew the rules and they knew the consequences. When they chose to disregard the rules, they bore the consequences and it should have stayed as such. This appeasement (oooh! hot button word) does not set a good example for youngsters out there who are still learning the game of life.

Regardless, Senator Obama will have the necessary delegates aligned with his campaign in order to secure the nomination for Democratic candidate for the President of the United States.

It is my sincere hope that Senator Clinton accepts this agreement and does not take this to the Credentials committee, because if she is willing to unify the party, it is in the best interest of all parties involved to begin the transition to the general election as soon as Senator Obama has the necessary delegates.

Juancarlos, Chapel Hill, NC (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:22 PM)

There clearly was sexism regarding the Democratic Party. The saying in Florida was "Sore Loserman". It should be updated inn Michigan to "Sore Loserperson." Much more appropriate.

THuff, Bealeton, VA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:22 PM)

These people have no honor. Pledges mean nothing to them.

Obama, once again, comes away with the victory!

(Sing to Willie Nelson's Hit):

Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to be cheaters,

Don't let them lie, and go back on their trusts,

Make 'em be honest, and know that like such,

That someday, they're success will be just as much!

As team Obama's today!!

donna (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:23 PM)

I know there are probably a lot of unhappy Clinton supporters tonight. But the bottom line is, these states both BROKE THE RULES!!! I would have preferred 50/50 split on both. The fact is, there were 13 Clinton supporters on this committee, 8 Obama supporters on this committee, and the rest uncommitted. So, that tells me that the way the votes went, even some Clinton supporters on the committee felt that Michigan's election was very flawed. It was the state's bigwigs that suggested the 69/59 split, which the Obama campaign agreed with before. I think it was yesterday that I saw a memo from the Clinton camp wanting to give Obama "0" out of Michigan. WOW! Anyway, in a sense everyone was a winner today and democracy worked. It is important to remember that the committee could have just as well voted to not reinstate any delegates from these two states that broke the rules, unlikely, but could have happened. I think the rules stated that they had to impose at least a 50% penalty. Just my take on it.

Oh, and Ickes, is really icky!!!

A Latte Lover, Seattle, WA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:23 PM)

Florida was fair, even though Obama did run a national ad in the state. But MI was not. Obama needs to take responsibility for his lack of judgement to remove his name from the MI ballot. He denied his voters the right to vote for him (whether it counted or not). But if they are going to count the delegates in MI then the votes should also be counted as casted. If this gives Clinton the popular vote, then so be it. Let the superdelegates decide if they will go with the will of the people or against them. Neither candidate can win on pledged delegates alone. Don't blame the candidates on this one, it was the DNC who screwed up this election year.

KD in NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:24 PM)

After this tawdry spectacle by Harold Ickes and all the HRC minions,

and following Hillary's complete lack of conscience and stunning shortfall of campaign competence,

together with Hillary’s appeal to racism at the lowest common denominator,

there remains one measure of business that the voters of New York State will take care of at the first opportunity:

Send the Billaries back to Arkansas

Integrity Does Matter (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:24 PM)

A magnanimous, art of the deal. If Sen. Obama did have 50/50, then Ickes knows it and there were witnesses. So maybe, credit will go where credit is due.

But I just know the Clintons will spin this somehow
to make her look cheated by the big, bad men and the
Obama campaign. Never mind that there are women everywhere on that committee and in the party powerful.

Deborah Greenlawn, NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:27 PM)

Hillary supporters don't seem to understand that the mojority of issues working in Obama's favor are not because he is the new minipulative politician. He thinks before making decisions and statements and Americans that do the same, usually end up agreeing with him. He hasn't stolen anything or minipulated anybody. He is just an very smart man who would make a great president.

Hillary, give it up!

Obama 08 (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:27 PM)

had a blast watching the chickens run around with their heads cut off today! Thanks for making it easy for McCain ;)

bill brown (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:28 PM)

Deborah-Those who didn't want to vote for her could have simply voted non-committed. Obviously she had more supporters in MI than you want to believe.
But if your going to use your logic, remember that Obama won his first IL state senate position by eliminating his competition and being the only one on the ballot. He won a "no-contest" too.

Kyle, NY (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:28 PM)

I am proud of the way the committee as a whole ocnducted itself, but I think people such has Harold Ickes should leave the Democratic party. He spoke under the pretense of being concerned for the voters of Michigan, yet outright lied about the way the nomination was conducted. I forget who the black gentleman was who called him out, but I wish MSNBC would focus on what the gentleman said.

The other thing that that I suspect is that some of the vocal Hillary supporters were sent there just to be divisive. George Bush used this tactic in 2000 and it was shown in the movie "Recount" how the Republican party actually used Enron jets to fly in college students to disrupt the process and stop the vote count. I suspect Hillary's people did the same thing hoping to sway the DNC, but it didn't work.

Finally there is nothing to take to Denver. The DNC members who voted today included the leadership from both Florida and Michigan, and they are the ones who came up with the compromise themselves. It wasn't Clinton or Obama, it was the leadership of the repective states and their delegations. So for Ickes, a DC representative and supporter of Hillary to feign anger over the MICHIGAN decision, NOT THE DC decision, is more disingenuous than Cheyney pretending to care about the average American.

People like Ickes should be drummed out of politicsbut if he chooses to stay in he should do the Democrats a favor and switch parties. The Republicans would love to have a lying, deceitful person like Ickes. That's their party mantra. Ickes would fit right in.

Ejerod, Chesapeake,VA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:29 PM)

It's official. Hillary Imelda Evita Clinton, is a world class loser!!

Hee Hee Hee (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:29 PM)

OBama sucks

Bob Pisci (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:29 PM)

OK guys, make up your mind. Do you want party unity, or do you want to give the Republicans more videos to use against us going towards November. Whether you like him or not, Obama is going to win, and the sooner we get behind him and become a unified party, the better chance we have to beat McCain in November. How many of you think that the racous (sp?) behavior that happened today WON'T be used by the Republicans in videos over the next few months?? Heck, they are already using some of the earlier ones.

Johnny P. (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:30 PM)

He had the votes but knew that's no way to win over Clinton voters. Let's see if he's brilliant enough to make her VP. He needs to win over 17+ million, and that is the best way -- no matter what his followers think.

We'll see how much of a leader he can be. Can he convince his followers to work side-by-side Clintonites?

Joy, North Central Iowa (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:30 PM)

I think half a vote is pure bull, each and every single vote should count, why should the voters themselves be punished, what did they do wrong?, they are being punished for higher ups decisions and you know it. I am damned shamed of the Democratic Party. Half ASS simply is not good enough, but since I cant change it I will cross over and vote Republican as well and many other, and what about Florida and Michigan, does the Democratic Party really believe that these voters will be there for them in NOV. 2008. HELL NO WE WONT!! WELCOME MCCAIN FOR PRESIDENT !!!

Stclaire (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:30 PM)

To Hillary supporters: many say she was robbed of the nomination. It is amazing how her supporters have selective amnesia. Your candidate signed the pledge and agreed to not seat the delegates of MI and FL. It baffles me how her supporters are aganist disenfranchisng votes, but do not want to count the MI uncommitted votes which was for Obama. It appears that the votes for Clinton count, but the ones aganist her don't count. In addition, her supporters want to disenfranchise the cacucus states so their candidate can claim the popular vote. This is what they call democracy. It is the eptimoe of hyporcrisy and shows that Clinton and her supporters do not want every vote to count. They only want their votes to count which is unfair because without party unity your candidate cannot win the general election if she tries to steal the nomination. We will remember how her supporters and Clinton tried to not count and diminish the votes that were not for her.

voter (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:31 PM)

I don't see any pro-Clinton comments. Cound it be that her supporters finally feel what the Clintons and their mouthpieces have never felt before? Shame.

Once Barack Obama oficially clinches victory, he will (as the official head of the party) direct all Michigan and Florida delegates to be truly seated and he will still have won. It will prove that HRC and her supporters were fighting for nothing. The Democrats are nominating their strongest candidate. I pray that he does not weaken himself by taking Hillary Clinton on as his running mate in order to assauge the unjustifiably hurt feelings of her supporters.

Rob, Seattle, WA (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:31 PM)

So Obama gets what he wants (for now) but the unfairness of giving Obama almost as many Michigan votes as Clinton is not a way to unify the party. Just the oposite. Obama and his campaign are too cute by far. Yeah they stole Clinton's Michigan votes but the obscene thing is they actually redistributed over 600,000 Michigan votes thereby overruling the people's vote and their voice. I'm in shock about this blatant act of ignoring the people's vote. This is not democracy and it will produce a very bad outcome to the Presidential election. I'm sick over this. No way in hell will Obama and the idiots who helped steal those votes will get my vote. And...I'm a lifelong Democrat or I was....

D. McGhee (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:32 PM)

This question has been asked of the Obama supporters time and time again, and they just don't seem to get it. How do you think it is going to be possible for Obama to win the General Election without the support of Hillary Clinton's supporters?

Times up, he can't, that's the point. So continue to insult the Clinton supporters as you have done for the past six months at least and see what it gets you and Obama in November.

NO to Obama (Sent Saturday, May 31, 2008 8:33 PM)

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