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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Would bin Laden get habeas rights?

Posted: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 11:20 AM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ's Adam Aigner-Treworgy
SAN ANTONIO, Texas -- According to the McCain campaign's top foreign policy advisor, Obama equals Clinton -- at least when it comes to fighting terrorism.

On a conference call with reporters that took place this morning, Randy Scheunemann accused the presumptive Democratic nominee of offering a renewal of what he called the failed law enforcement method of anti-terrorism offered by the Clinton administration in the 1990's.

"Sen. Obama is a perfect manifestation of a Sept. 10th mindset," Scheunemann said, going on to say that Obama's anti-terrorism plans -- and his approval of the recent Supreme Court decision to offer Habeas Corpus rights to prisoners at Guantanamo -- was a "policy of delusion."

VIDEO: Responding to charges by the McCain campaign that he is in a "September 10th mindset," Sen. Barack Obama says that Republicans' "failed strategies" account for bin Laden's avoiding capture.

In a question posed toward the end of the call by Stephen Hayes of the Weekly Standard, the McCain campaign might have found a new talking point with which to emphasize the possible effect of the Gitmo decision. Hayes' asked if -- in the campaign's interpretation -- the Court's decision would mean that if Osama bin Laden was captured and imprisoned at Guantanamo, he too would be entitled to Habeas Corpus rights.

The McCain campaign's answer was yes.

"If Sen. Obama did receive that 3 a.m. phone call," Scheunemann said of the call so often mentioned throughout the Democratic primaries, "I guess his response would be to call the lawyers in the justice department."

*** UPDATE *** NBC's Caroline Gransee adds, The McCain campaign used the conference call today to respond to Obama's recent comments he made on terrorism and to attempt to make Obama look weak on terrorism. The McCain campaign argued that Obama's plan to "treat terrorists as nothing more than common criminals demonstrates a stunning and alarming misunderstanding of the threat we face from radical Islamic extremism."

By continuing this law enforcement approach that Obama advocates for is "very, very dangerous" and is representing the "mindset of 9/10," claimed the campaign. Adding to the campaign's argument, this "change" that Obama wants to implement would only "take us back to the failed policies of the past and every American should find this mindset troubling."

The campaign also said that the Obama camp would say that McCain is practicing the "politics of fear," but the McCain camp pushed back by arguing that Obama is practicing the politics of "delusion."

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I suppose McCain would support a public flogging first,

But of course Osama would have rights under our legal system, because that's the point of freedom and justice.  He would be tried under our criminal court system.  And of course, we have more than enough evidence to convict him and put him to death...
weak weak weak
this gi joe bullsh*t may have worked in 2004
but no more...these clowns are out of touch
It's a shame, with all that McCain went through in Vietnam, that he would support the same treatment he received as a POW. The power of this Country is to bring justice to those who deserve it and not a Nation of mob rule and vigilante justice. A cool head in the midst of anger and panic is needed to keep America safe while protecting our civil liberties and show terrorists that we will not stoop to their level.
Maybe the GOP would like to take a moment to explain to us why bin Laden is still on the FBI's Most Wanted list and not in a prison or grave (I choose grave).  After all, Dubya's had 7 years of this war on terror to bring bin Laden to justice and he has failed.

The Constitution guarantees that if bin Laden is captured he must be given Habeas Corpus...shame on those wusses who wrote The Constitution and didn't have to forethought to deal with terrorists 200 years in the future!

Let's be honest, though...bin Laden will never see a courtroom or a prison cell as in the equation of "taken dead or alive" we prefer dead.
Osama bin Laden should receive rights of habeus corpus. There is enough evidence to put him away for several lifetimes. We know why he would be held and the US, if ever we could find him, would hold the fastest trial the country has ever seen to convict him. Justice would be swift, and yes, constitutional.

We simply need to be better than the terrorist filth we're trying to clean up. You don't wipe sh*t off the map by using more sh*t.
Laughable - Now the GOP wants to make talking points based on " what ifs " how desparate it that.  

They still think they are smarter than U.S. and think people can not read into the BS they talk.

How pathetic - but as long as they keep thinking that the better it is for the Dems and Barack Obama.

The GOP has no clue what Americans are about...they are left behind in every aspect of the new American generation of citizens.  

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
"I guess his response would be to call the lawyers in the justice department"

How dare the president try and act within the law! After this presidency, it just won't feel right.
Obama has called for an attack on Pakistan in the past......

A victory for Obama would take this country back to September 10 2001.  Liberals are very scared and nervous when it comes to defending our country, so I can see why people would bring this subject up.  Bill was more worried about Monica then he was about Bin Laden and he even knew it was Bin Laden that attacked the WTC as it fell to the ground.  

I fear another terrorist attack on our shores under an Obama administration, just due to the fact he pays very little attention to foreign policy, which is one of his glaring weaknesses.  John McCain will whip him big time in that department.

Knowing Obama and his pacifist attitudes, he would go to Bin Laden's cave and talk terms with the goofy looking rag.
Why don't we just get done with it and take the last little step toweards fascism?  Typical GOP talking point - we can eliminate your rights and call it "limited government".  

GOP is the biggest bait and switch marketing ever.  Promise smaller government to protect our "liberty", but try to pass legislation to limit just that based on the narrow view of the "righteous" few.  Small government?  No.  BIG government spending?  YES!

GOP...the party of Bait and Switch.  

Stop drinking the kool-aid people.

Why didn't you mention this part of the call....
------------
On a conference call with reporters, McCain aide Randy Scheunemann continues to criticize Barack Obama's praise for criminal prosecution of the first World Trade Center bombers in the 1990s.

"They are very dangerous people ... they include Khalid Sheikh Mohammed," he said of the detainees at Guantanamo Bay, going on to take a shot at Obama's political roots: "These aren’t just your run of the mill drug dealers that are picked up on the South Side of Chicago," he said, referring to the legal protection afforded criminal defendants.
-------------
South Side of Chicago? Really? We're going there already? These people are idiots.
What was the GOP's reaction to the Supreme Courts decision on George Bush winning the election?  Bush appointed new justices since that time to stack the deck for him and he still gets a ruling contrary to his liking.   How can the GOP diagree with any ruling of the Supremes?
We could just end this debate right here by firing missles and blowing him up or some special forces person shooting him.  Why hold him over for trial?  I would support having him helf in Afghanisatn, let him be tortured and his fingernails pulled out.  I could care less about any terrorist getting anykind of help in any American court, just shoot them and let's move on!
McCain really is disappointing me. I didn't expect this.

Yes, if we're holding bin Laden in custody, we should recognize all the rights we recognize for any other individual in custody. That's called due process, which is a big part of who we are as Americans.

Creating separate classes of individuals - those with rights, and those who did something really, really bad so we're not going to worry about due process - is a very slippery slope.

The Obama campaign should respond to McCain's bizarre position by asking if the senator feels that Charlie Manson's trial was just a waste of time and money, and whether we maybe should have just put a bullet through his head from the get go.
Why do they suppose that there are only two approaches to dealing with terrorism?  Giving a terrorists rights is not weak.  It is not making it a police action. It is laws and protections that prevent government from doing the wrong thing.
"Radical Islamic Extremism"=code word for the right wingnuts to go insane.  Same as Bush.  Looney Tunes!
They don’t' want a candidate named; Barack Hussein Obama

He scares them to death.
He is embarrassing.  
He is unelectable.
Alecki, Greenville, SC
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Psst... your ignorance & racism is showing...

Here's an idea... SO DON"T VOTE FOR OBAMA!  That's your right, BUT don't come on here and spew your lies and inuendo's - we're on to people like you!

This kinda crap will not work this YEAR!  People are educating themselves (with the exception of you OBVIOUSLY!!)  So take your hatred elsewhere - Faux news would be a good start..

White woman for Obama (he has no problem with my vote or the rest of the white woman in my family)
I'm still floored by this. I know there are those in the GOP, a minority perhaps, who would like to see a police state here. I really thought McCain was better than this.

I thought he was American.

Maybe he's just having a bad day.
The McCain camp thinks this helps them.. Wow.. this opens a can of worms.. because I would really now like to hear the McCain camps in depth plan for... well TRYING to catch Bin Laden FIRST.  After we hear that passionate plan from the McCain camp then we could move on to talking about what would happen to Bin Laden IF he was in custody.  

Would John McCain and the republicans have fought a war in Afghanistan with vigor and passion they have shown in IRAQ..  

Lets see who has something to gain from the war in Afghanistan.. THE AMERICAN PEOPLE..

Who gains something from the war in IRAQ... THE IRAQI ECONOMY..

All of you Republicans please explain to Americans across this country how we have BENEFITED from the IRAQ war.. and please be specific about what AMERICA has gained from this WAR!!

Just name ONE benefit of the IRAQ war for AMERICA.  If someone can justify the U.S. being in IRAQ for 5 years, I would more than ENTHUSIATICALLY vote for John McCain..
John McSame the Touble Talk Express, needs some publicity, which he's not going to get from Obama. Stay with your boring Townhall meetings.

360 degrees of Sen Obama's Detroit rally  Freep.com  Detroit Free Press
http://freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080617/MULTI/80617040

Fans in Detroit Pack the Joe (Updated:  pics & videoes)
by dkmich
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/17/52818/1155/836/537159
Sen. McCain,
Would you have wanted habeas corpus rights?  I think you would have like to due process.  Maybe instead of starting wars to promote democracy, why don't try practicing it.  We should not give up our way of life because you and your republican blowhard friend are afraid of the Bin Laden and the terrorists.  The terrorist cannot win the war on terror, but you sir, can certainly lose it!
Let's see...who do we want to be POTUS? The guy that TAUGHT consititutional law (guaranteeing rights for everyone)and graduated near the top of his class, or the numbnut that was a POW and graduated near the bottom of his class( 100 years ago)? Hmmmmm, doesn't seem too hard of a choice. Obama '08!
Of course, Bin Laden would have habeas corpus rights. What kind of an tyrant is John McCain? Our country was formed on the basis of a rule of law and on the foundation of over 400 years of common law, including the right to know what you are accused of under law.
What could John McCain possibly be afraid of? Our system of justice has worked relatively well for the past 200 years. At any rate, it sure beats tyranny.
...and after the update it becomes clear.

The GOP has no intention of ever bringing bin Laden to justice.  He serves them far better by being their own personal Boogeyman!

"Vote for us or bin Laden will get you!"

...makes a pretty lame campaign slogan!
Who gets to distinguish between terrorists and criminals?  Who gets rights under our constition and who doesn't?  McCain/Bush seem to think they're Kings of America.  McCain is pissing on the flag and constitution.
I suggest that the next time the McCain campaign starts with this "habeas corpus is outrageous" argument a reporter ought to ask the spokesman (or McCain) if he/she actually knows what habeas corpus means?  It's pretty clear that they don't.
Why shouldn't OBL receive Habaeus Corpus?  What differentiates America from the terrorists and the rest of the world is that we give everyone the opportunity to earn their freedom and rights even if they don't deserve it.  Even Hitler would've received a trial.  If we have overwhelming evidence that OBL or anyone else committed a crime, then it should take a day or two to convict them and either imprison them or execute them.  Why all of a sudden we don't want to follow our own laws when it comes to foreigners is beyond me.  
comments take FOREVER to be posted.
Sell the fear! Guess what, it doesn't matter who is president, a terrorist attack could happen at anytime.

All I know is that if in the future we are having the argument on if Bin Laden gets habeas corpus, at least it means we CAUGHT him right? Sounds good to me!

Well maybe if the GOP hadn't produced such a complete LOSER to run our country the past eight years, Bin Laden would already be DEAD.

And as we ALL KNOW, John McBush is promising to CONTINUE GWB FAILED FOREIGN POLICY.

I hardly think the GOP should be talking about Bin Laden.  They had their chance and they BLEW IT.


NO MORE WAR.

NO MORE GWB FAILED POLICY.

NO MORE MCBUSH
Sorry guys. You're not going to scare me into giving up constitutional rights. Habeus Corpus is just as important as the second amendment and the other nine. This country has faced threats throughout it's history and we always kept our constitutional rights. There's noway I'm going to give terrorists the satisfaction of knowing they scared us into changing our laws. Give me liberty or give me death!!
After the defeat of the Nazi didn't they go on trial? They did far worse that Osama did. They killed millions of people and yet there were trials. It has nothing to do with being a pacifist it has to do with being better than our enemies.
This is utterly laughable.  Of course Bin Laden would and should get Habeas Corpus rights should we capture him.  It's not going to do him much good though.  He would rightfully hang after the trial regardless.  

This whole notion that our criminal justice process doesn't work without breaking the rules is ludicrous!  Give Bin Laden his lawyer and his day in court and then hang him at ground zero.  

The idea is that if you're guilty, you pay the price.  But guilt or innocence must be determined in a court of law.  Not at Guantanamo bay by Blackwater operatives.  

How stupid does McCain think we are?  
Let's face the facts, folks.  ObL would be killed outright either by his own bodyguards or by NATO force personnel.  There is NO WAY this scumbag would see a court of law.
McGestapo; papers, please!
LEt's see under the old policies of treating terrorists and enemy combatants as criminals the WTC was bombed, 9/11 was planned, two embassies were blow up, our barracks at Khobar Towers was destroyed, the Cole was bombed.

Since we started taking the fight to them in Iraq and Aghan there have been no attacks inside the US or at any of our installations abroad.  The GOP must be doing something right.

Scare tactics just won't work any more.  I thought that was Bush's own court that made that ruling.  We need a law abiding president for a change.  GWB should be tried for treason and war crimes.
Mjstep - Yes, and it's even more insidious than that! The job of the Republican party is to maintain power sufficient to modify the business climate sufficiently to favor an elite corporate group at the expense of the rest of us. Of course, if we knew what was really going on, we would stop it in a minute. So, in order to be successful, the Republican party, especially since the Lee Atwater days, deflects attention from their real motivations and methods by throwing us red meat topics such as African-American parolees run amok, burning flags, gays getting married, fear of terrorism, fear of immigrants, and fear of non-Christians. I still do not understand why anyone who is not a millionaire, elitist, warmonger, religious fanatic, blind patriot, person of limited ability to think for oneself, or recovering alcoholic or sexual deviant would vote Republican in the first place.
Oh, and I suppose throwing people into a cell without charging them forever and letting them rot and be tortured is a great way to handle things.  Or, let's stick them on military vessels in the ocean and let their bodies rot to be fed to the fish and birds.  Good, idea.  Let's see, which makes more sense.  To be open and honest and let the rest of the world see and hear what these people have done.  Or to add to our horrible name and reputation around the world.  Let's see which one makes more people terrorist.  The policies of Bush-Cheney-McCain on terrorism have caused more deaths and economic loss around this entire world, than anyone can attribute to Obama.  This is another right-wing failed policy and approach that has consistently caused anger and bombings.
By continuing this law enforcement approach that Obama advocates for is "very, very dangerous" and is representing the "mindset of 9/10," claimed the campaign.
---------------------------------------------------
Er, wasn't George Bush president on September 10th??!!!
I respectfully refer John McCain's campaign to George Will's column in the Washington Post today.  SCOTUS' latest Guantanomo decision is not as black and white, nor as outrageous, as McCain's campaign suggests.  If McCain cannot recognize that Guantanamo, and the war on terror generally, presents some legal complexities about which reasonable people can disagree, then our chances of getting a terrorism policy that is mindful of the the Constitution under a McCain administration is about as good as under the current President, who views the law as a mere annoyance.  
How on EARTH do the McCain people believe that denying basic rights is the American Way?  Do they not trust a jury of honest, hard working Americans to convict someone like Bin Laden!??!?!?

I think their approach to this issue shows a basic mistrust in the common sense and judgment of the American People.

http://ilfamilypolitics.blogspot.com
Somebody needs to tell John McBush's campaign that this is the era of Computers ,Civil Rights,Human Rights and that the tactics of fear dont work just like McShady's cheesy smile doesn't work either MY FRIENDS! :).
Jerry - its Republicans who shake with fear at every two-bit dictator. Why are you guys so scared?

Obama didn't call for an attack on Pakistan. He called for Pakistan to act on any intel of bin Laden's location, and if they couldn't, he said with him as president, the U.S. would.

That's not an attack on Pakistan. That's an attack - presumably a precision missile strike, but who knows - on bin Laden, who happens to be in Pakistan. Big difference.

Since saying that, the Bush Administration has adopted the same policy. We've conducted multiple strikes now inside Pakistan.

McCain seemingly doesn't even understand his own flip flop on this issue. He doesn't criticize the Bush Administration for its strikes, but he does repeat the Clinton criticism of Obama... while saying he himself would follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

It sounds like McCain's position is that its okay to strike or even invade Pakistan, when a Republican does it.
THE REPUBLICANS SHOULD EXPLAIN WHY THE PRESIDENT JUST DAYS AGO MADE FINDING HIM A PRIORITY.

TOO LITTLE TOO LATE, AFTER TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING SPENT ON THE WRONG PEOPLE
 Actually, the terrorists have more to fear with an Obama administration. First, there will be no more propaganda and made up intelligence to justify military action. Obama will insist on our intelligence agencies going after hard data and real facts and then tasking the military to perform its duties under the rule of law and within the treaties we now abide by. This will make other countries realize that we are not go-it-alone cowboys who are out to "clean up" the world. Real terrorists and the countries that harbor them will be dealt with and not placated or paid off to do nothing. Read Pakistan. Once the focus is on the real terrorists and their supporters (Read Afghanistan) the bin ladens of the world will have no place to hide. Bush had many, many years to close the net on bin laden and failed us miserably. Time to do the job right. We've learned our lesson about putting mega-corporations in charge of our foreign policy.
America's prison for terrorists often held the wrong men

http://www.mcclatchydc.com:80/detainees/story/38773.html
Oh please! Our Country has a system of LAWS!!! If you don't want alleged terrorists to have habeous corpus rights then..CHANGE THE CONSITUTION! This is So typical GOP.
Obama is neither a pacifist nor will he restrained in defense of our country.

There are three branches of government in the United States for a reason: checks and balances.  Based on their posture, Bush, McCain and their like would rather we be a dictatorship and eliminate the courts and Congress altogether unless they agree with them 100%.  The last eight years has seen some of the greatest abuses of power out of the White House than we have ever seen (Guantanamo, sanctioned invasion of privacy, diminished civil rights, misleading the public and Congress on the threat of Iraq, etc.)

So much for small, non-intrusive government.  I prefer pre 9/11 to what we have now by every stretch of the imagination.  Let's be ready and vigilant of the terrorist threat, but don't let it rule our lives in fear.  That is the very definition of terrorism and what the Republicans have constructed is accomplishing Bin Laden's goal much better than any additional attack could ever do.  Al Qaeda doesn't have to do anything so long as the Republicans are in or running for office.

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary  Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Attributed to Benjamin Franklin
Are American courts the right place for these persons to be tried?  That is a great question for debate.

Should America go around the world snatching up suspects, imprisoning them for a decades without representation, without being allowed to see the evidence of their crimes, without getting to cross any government witness?

The answer has to be NO.  So, the republicans promise to continue the status quo which has been found to be constitutionally illeagal.  The republicans should at least put forth another option.


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