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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

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Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



McCain v. Obama: clashing on terrorism

Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:48 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

"Seeing an opening on the terrorism issue, John McCain's campaign is bashing Barack Obama for suggesting, after last week's US Supreme Court ruling giving Guantánamo Bay detainees the right to challenge their detentions in federal court, that terrorism suspects should be prosecuted in civilian courts as criminals."

VIDEO: Responding to charges by the McCain campaign that he is in a "September 10th mindset," Sen. Barack Obama says that Republicans' "failed strategies" account for bin Laden's avoiding capture.

"A defiant Barack Obama said Tuesday he would take no lectures from Republicans on which candidate would keep the U.S. safer, a sharp rebuke to John McCain's aides who said the Democrat had a naive, Sept. 10 mind-set toward terrorism," the AP writes. "'These are the same guys who helped to engineer the distraction of the war in Iraq at a time when we could have pinned down the people who actually committed 9/11,' the presumed nominee told reporters aboard his campaign plane. 'This is the same kind of fear-mongering that got us into Iraq ... and it's exactly that failed foreign policy I want to reverse.'"

The Washington Post: “The exchange marked the general election's first real engagement over the campaign against terrorism and demonstrated that both sides are confident that they have a winning message on the issue… The debate over whether to treat terrorism primarily as a law enforcement issue or as a military issue goes back years. Some experts argue that it is inadequate to pursue and prosecute suicidal Islamic extremists as if they were typical criminals; other experts say that doing so is precisely what is needed to puncture the aura of ‘holy warriors’ that the terrorists feed on and to deglamorize them in the eyes of other Muslims.”

The New York Times: “It was the most heated back-and-forth yet in a debate that began last week when the Supreme Court ruled that the detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, have the right to challenge their detention in federal court. Mr. Obama praised the court’s decision as a return to the rule of law, while Mr. McCain excoriated it, saying that it could make the nation less safe, although the Republican candidate’s comments were a reminder of the complexities of his own past positioning on Guantánamo detainees.”

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Old Man Yells At Clouds!!!
9/11 happended on the Republican's watch, so it's hard for them to say anything about terroism and keeping us safer.  This has never happened before they got in office.

Payback, is our troops in Iraq where over 4000 troops have died since the start of the war. Not to count, the thousands of innocent Iraqis.

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Did anyone see that fool Rudy on "Morning Joe" today?  I don't consider Mika or Joe bastions of fine reporting, but they were asking legit question and he kept doing the "non-reply" reply.

If these "combantants" are not criminals, then what are they?  No matter what you call them, are they not human beings?  Are we supposed to hold them for 20 yrs w/o charging them with anything?

Aren't we supposed to be better than that?  Did we not learn ANYTHING from WWII?

I am SO tired of living in fear and the GOP pouring salt in the wounds so everybody stays afraid.  

We are now SO hated in that part of the world - more so than we were on 09/10/01.  How are they keeping us more safe again?

Ron Paul had some good points on this on "Morning Joe" this morning.  Questions need to be raised...
McCain is all over the place on this issue. MAJOR Contradiction here: He has said before that HE WANTS TO CLOSE GITMO, yet he insists that those who are currently detained there should not have rights. Well, if he doesn't have any problems with their being detained with no rights, then WHY does he want to close it? What does he find wrong with GITMO if not their manner of detention?

McCain's position seems to be...

"GITMO is a bad place, and we need to close it. However, while it's still open, we might as well treat them like shit."

That makes no sense at all.
NAIVE??? The GOP let Bin Laden slip thru their fingers!!!  Our weakened economy has done more to make us less safe than anything any terrorist could do. I hope voters have become critical thinkers--"terrorists"  and "national security"  are code words for we don't want you to think about this--just react emotionally.
So, does Uncle Fluffy believe that the US Constitution is an inadequate document?  I guess he was just faking it when he took the oath to "support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic".
Imagine that...Obama had the affrontery to actually go with a decision made by the highest court in the land. How dare that liberal softie stand by the rule of law?  And he's right that we tracked down, prosecuted openly in court, and jailed the people who did the first attempt on the World Trade Bldg, and they are now rotting in jail, doing o=no harm to anyone.  Why can't we do this to the Gitmo bunch?  We should either declare them POWs and treat them according to the (outmoded, Bush says) Geneva Conventions, or haul them in front of a court. Enough of these Soviet-style secret prisons, tortures and tropical Gulags. The Supreme Court said it's wrong, and Obama is just echoing that.  Why does that make him a pre-9/11 dreamer?
Either same old stuff different day or new fresh ideas that will make a real difference...
Will McCain really be able to change the policies he has fought for in the World or will Obama make a difference that be seen as a better challenge for America...

Hope with Death..i.e. McCain
or
Hope with Change..i.e. Obama
It's a no brainer

Obama'08
This is such a disgrace.  Republicans!  Read the Constitution!  Check out the oath of office you hope to take in January, Mr. McCain.  (It might make you rethink your career path...)

http://ilfamilypolitics.blogspot.com
They cannot scare me anymore. And KUDOS to Obama for not taking this crap for one second. A testament to his fortitude on this issue.

Obama -and all of us - are not going to take it anymore.

And BTW, Dr. Susan Rice was incredible on Morning Schmo today - she shut Joe right down, held her ground and told the truth. What a great rep for the Obama Campaign!
WE WENT TO WAR IN IRAQ IN PART BECAUSE OF THE WAY SADDAM TREATED HIS CITIZENS.SADDAM WAS JUDGE,JURY AND EXECUTER.HAS BUSH NOT DONE THE SAME THING BY NOT ALLOWING PEOPLE TO DEFEND THEMSELFS? WE HAVE A CONSTITUTION THAT HOLDS THIS COUNTRY TOGETHER.IF WE BECOME WHAT WE FEAR HAVE WE NOT LOST ANYWAY?
McSame has absolutely no details of what success is and how it's measured and when the Iraq war would be over in his mind. Nothing. Just more of the war criminal Bush.

Good post: MI Chick (Sent Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:58 AM)

Considering how incompetently the repugnant ones have run their phony war on terror it's time for a Democrat to come in and win the war so we can get on with our business.  The repugnant ones have failed utterly at getting rid of Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda while Afghanistan and Pakistan go down the tubes.

Plus the repugnant ones are lying again about the surge working.  The original plan was to provide better security so that the Iraqis could get political reconciliation accomplished.  While the security situation is improved the Iraqis have failed completely to take advantage and achieve political reconciliation.  The only goal of the surge has been to waste billions of dollars and many more lives of soldiers just to gain a political advantage during an election year.

Go Obama 08/12!
The GOP not only wants them to stay in prison and not have a chance of a fair trail, but they have something to hide.  These people currently deemed as "terrorist" and are locked up with no chance of any trail "at the moment" knows things that the GOP would prefer the American people not know. (These are my opinions).

Because if they didn't - why would it be necessary to keep them in prison and not allow them out to prove their innocence or quilt.  

The GOP, neo - cons, are a bunch of crooked cowards -this entire Bush/Cheney administration has been nothing but a complete deceptive organization with an ultimate goal to seek and steal has much oil and money as possible and no one is excluded from their mischievous ways - especially the American people.  

Doing the entire time Bush/Cheney has been in office this is what we have heard - Fear, Terror, Afghan, Iraq...what does this all have in common?   Excuses and natural resources – that’s what.  

The Neo-Con plan was to inject:  Terror- to spread the fear – Invade Afghan and Iraq to steal the natural gas (Afghan) and the Oil (Iraq).

This never had anything to do with America's security.  It was always about - deceiving and scaring America (a diversion) and taken resources (gas, oil) for profit gaining.

Yes, as most of us know the entire 8 years of killing, dying, lying, mistreatment, cheating, stealing, vetoing, market speculation, housing crisis, credit crisis, has all been the Neo-Con conspiracy of GREED.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Not that this is going to be posted:  But you know that the Bush Administration is pointing the finger at the Clinton Administration for allowing 9/11 to happen.  I'm still scratching my head on that one though because like Obama for President pointed out, it happened on BUSH'S watch.  His second year in office as a matter-of-fact so it sounds like to me that he chose to ignore the warnings and the intelligence data.  That sure does explain the confused look on his face when his assistant whispered in his ear that we were being attacked.  He sat there for what seemed like an eternity with that wide eyed deer in headlights look on his face.  I wanted to put my foot through the TV I was so pissed.  

I'm sick of living in fear too.  MI Chick it's not just THAT part of the world that hates us...we are despised all over this planet!  Didn't you hear that the idiot on his European trip was booed and protested in Italy???!
McCain wants to continue to "rape" the Constitution just like his bosses (Bush/Cheney) have done for the past 7 1/2 years. The former founders of the Constitution are shaking their heads over how Bush has tried to get around it from the time he took office. I thought he swore to uphold the Constitution when he was sworn into office. Isn't THAT grounds for impeachment, alone? He's an embarrassment to the entire country and McFossil would be Bush on steroids. Thank goodness we will have a president with honor and integrity come Nov. Obama '08!
O.k.--let's do it the republican way.  Let's run up a trillion dollar deficit, kill over 4,000 soldiers and then sit back and wait for a video tape to let us know how Osama bin Laden is doing!  Great strategy there!  Wow, I really feel safe  ----   NOT!
O.k.--let's do it the republican way.  Let's run up a trillion dollar deficit, kill over 4,000 soldiers and then sit back and wait for a video tape to let us know how Osama bin Laden is doing!  Great strategy there!  Wow, I really feel safe  ----   NOT!
And its a good clash from Obama's perspective.

I just don't think independents are going to reward the hide n snivel Republicans for their fear mongering this time around. I'm still amazed that McCain said bin Laden doesn't deserve individual rights. Its just mind-boggling, and completely un-American.

Granted, if we do find his location, he may well die in an air strike or even during any attempts to capture him. But if we do capture him, then we treat him like any other accused criminal - because that's who we are. Despite the GOP's hidin' and snivelin' tendencies, we still are the America our founding fathers established.
The ruling by the Supreme Court simply upheld the separation of powers doctrine and the long honored writ of habeas corpus. The Executive Branch alone cannot be the sole arbiter of who can be held for long periods of time without charge or trial.

The response by a remarkable number of Republicans indicates they are no longer the constitutionalists they once were. It is a sad day for the Republican Party.


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