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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Indies not warm to Obama-Clinton ticket

Posted: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 1:20 PM by Mark Murray



From NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli
Today’s Quinnipiac numbers for three key battleground states suggest that Obama may have indeed gotten a “bounce” after Clinton’s exit left him the undisputed, presumptive nominee. Yet a closer look at the poll finds that -- at least in these states right now -- there would be no sizeable benefit for Obama to make Clinton his running mate.

VIDEO: Are Sen. Hillary Clinton's female supporters so disaffected that they would vote for John McCain for president? A Hardball panel discusses.

Only 21% of Florida voters, 23% of Ohio voters, and 25% of Pennsylvania voters say they’d be more likely to support the Democratic ticket if Clinton were a part of it. In each case, a slightly smaller percentage said they’d be less likely to vote for that “dream” ticket, with a majority saying it would make no difference.

Most significantly, Quinnipiac found that independent voters in those key battlegrounds believe that the Illinois senator should not select his New York counterpart -- and by double-digit margins in two of the three.

“If Sen. Obama seriously is thinking about picking Sen. Clinton as his running mate, these numbers might cause him to reconsider,” Quinnipiac’s Peter Brown said in a release.

Sam Arora, a former Clinton campaign staffer now speaking for the “Vote for Both” movement that is pushing for an Obama-Clinton ticket, counters that Clinton boosts Obama among key demographics in these states, and questions the polling firm’s “misleading lede and prepared bytes.”

“Sen. Obama holds only a slim lead in these states and adding Clinton to the ticket would give him a vital boost into safer territory,” Arora said.

Quinnipiac also tested some “favorite son” choices in each state, and in each case far fewer voters said such a selection would impact their choice.

Interestingly, voters in all three states said they did not think Bill Clinton would be a problem for the Democratic ticket if his wife was on it -- though again independent voters were more likely to think he would.

On the Republican side, President Bush is a much greater concern, with his approval rating in each state hovering in the 20s. And a double-digit percentage of former Bush voters in each state now say they’d support Obama.

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Obama / Clinton tickets will spell DEFEAT!!!

Obama needs a more traditional VP.  Someone that the people will be happy to support! Clinton has too many enemies. Obama has too many critics!!!

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She wouldn't accept it anyway, he'd better ask her!
WE hate HILLIARY and all her supporters for that matter OBAMMA says "The republican party has been the party of IDEAS for the last 15 years or so" HE SAID IT.We believe everything he says so we should vote republican OHHHHH that was just something he said to get elected .He didnt mean Bill is a RACIST or HILLIARY is a LIAR he just said it to get elected OR maybe she is a MONSTER  UNITE with yourself WE just wont vote until our canaidate is in the race why vote for something you dont beleive in obammas people woulnt haqve voted for hilliary why vote for him YOU ELITE TYPICAL WHITE WOMEN SWEETIE
There are a lot of people not warm to Obama on any ticket. Obama is very divisive, similar to Clinton. Obama is kind of dense in that he doesn't really understand that he offends a lot of people with his words, the radical people he associates with, and his beliefs. Obama's elitism is another problem he has not dealt well with and will hurt him greatly in the general election.
hey chuck when will anybody look into the vp's closed door energy policy . what happend behind those doors should be political foder
AS long as Obama is picking Clinton people for his team, he may as well go all the way and take Hillary too.....

So much for the "change" in his campaign......
Obama is nothing more then an ivy league con man.....
They are split between MACAIN AND OBAMMA 45 v45
Sam Arora, a former Clinton campaign staffer now speaking for the “Vote for Both” movement that is pushing for an Obama-Clinton ticket, counters that Clinton boosts Obama among key demographics in these states, and questions the polling firm’s “misleading lede and prepared bytes.”

“Sen. Obama holds only a slim lead in these states and adding Clinton to the ticket would give him a vital boost into safer territory,” Arora said.
_____________

Why? Because he says so?  

Jeez,  get over it.  She lost.  She's NOT going to be VP.  

She should go back to the senate and use her talents there to become the next "Ted Kennedy" for the Dems.
Take that, C.O.U.G.A.R ladies!
That gap will only increase as we get closer to November.  My guess, and it's just that, is that Obama will have an avg. lead of about 11% overall, with Barr/Nader taking about 6%.

So, where is the un-electable arguement now?  BTW, thank you Clinton supporters.
I agree.  Senator Clinton's campaign went against Obama's core message.  "Turning the Page" means putting together a new coalition of politicians dedicated to finding new ways to solve the nation's problems.

Senator Clinton is a talented representative of the people of New York.  She should remain in a position where she can serve that constituency.


http://ilfamilypolitics.blogspot.com
O-b-a-m-a  d-o-e-s  n-o-t  n-e-e-d h-e-r.  PERIOD!  END OF DISCUSSION!
Independents: The bi-polar people of the political world. They always seem to have a nice discussion, with themselves!
Senator Obama's polling numbers are steadily improving. It does not appear that he needs Hillary Clinton on his ticket. Given all the vicious nay saying The Clintons, and some pundits like Buchanan have thrown out there disparaging Obama, I would love to see Barack, and Michelle reighn victorious on their own, come November.
Hillary will be needed in the Senate or as Att. Gen. she can do alot of good for America in either of those two spots.
Told ya!  Nobody wants HRC on Barack's ticket! Not only would it put him in danger (remember Vince Foster) but nobody likes the Clintons anymore. Obama doesn't need HRC; he gets a boost all on his own!!! Take that!

OBAMA/anybodybutHRC '08 & '12
Senator Clinton seems to have been very effective for her constituents in NY.  I for one would prefer that she stay there.  Biden, Webb, Bredesen, Richardson, Sebelius, or Hagel would all make fine VP's.
a little off the topic.. but still rather important...

McCain continues to show he's a fake!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jeffrey-klein/mccains-secret-questionab_b_107409.html
Huh? But I was told by a bunch of angry, cynical clinton supporters on this blog that the Dems would lose in November without her! I know they have no facts or statistics to back it up and they don't have anything concrete to say against Obama. Only that "he sucks" or calling him "Osama" or a "terrorist". I know all they can do is rant and whine and stomp there feet. Hold there breath and tell us how sorry we are all going to be for voting for policy that we agree with and not out of spite or treating the primary like a popularity contest. I realize that my 8 month old son shows more maturity when he doesn't get what he wants and every national poll shows that people who care about the future of our country are behind Obama's political ideology over there own little hurt feelings. Could it be that Molly and Bobbi and the others are wrong? That it is absolutely futile to come here everyday and say the same thing over and over regardless of the subject of the post?
Truly mind blowing!
Don't worry President Bush, it's better to do the right things then it is to be popular (How high school is that?). You've done all the right things Mr. President!
Once Lanny Davis joined "Vote Both" they immediately lost all credibility with me.  He is one of the most dishonest men that I have seen.  People need to relax and let Sen. Obama make his choice.  I'm very positive that based on the wonderful campaign that he has run thus far, that he will also make a good VP decision as well.  There are tons of qualified VP candidates out there this year and I'm sure that he'll pick someone who he has faith in to enforce his message.  At this point, I don't think that he has to make any kind of geographical pick and just needs to pick someone who meshes with him ideologically.  I'm still holding out hope for Gov. Richardson but Biden has been looking good lately and Edwards keeps coming to mind as a good choice as well.
Count me cold on Clinton, and color me frosty blue too!
I think Hillary should run as an Independent.   Bet Barry would change his mind about putting her on the ticket if she floated that idea around.  
orly!
Magic 8-Ball says: "Outlook not so good"
Let's move on .....

Obama/Edwards would be the best bet

John Edwards would be a worthy VP and sucessor for Obama. They're both reformers and both from the 'Democratic' wing of the Democratic party

Obama/Biden is close behind
Biden isn't as progressive as Edwards, but he has foreigh policy gravitas
He'd help in the General election

Obama/richardson is good for foreign affairs gravitas, too

Find a progressive as a running mate

No more 'Republican lite'

Game/Set/Match thank God...

Obama/Hagel 2008
I'm not surprised. Even today Rudy quoted Hillary in attacking Obama. I said it back then she is writing the Republican Play Book On Attacking Obama. This is why she won't be on the ticket as Obama's running mate. He would have to spend the whole fall defending himself from his VP's attacks!

Obama/Hagel 08 real unity
Everyone should know by now that the office of vice president is a powerless, useless, name only posision. They are totally forgotten as soon as they are sworn in. The only reason Cheney has any power is because he is vice president to the most stupid man in history.
I'll never vote for Obama because I don't believe in better health care, lowering gas prices by permanently reducing demand, improving education, a woman's right to choose, or saving $10 billion dollars a month by ending the war in Iraq.
You might not want to get too excited about Quinnipiac's numbers. They haven't been right in years.
As I've said all along there are numerous reason NOT to put Clinton on the ticket. Too polarizing to begin with and he'd have to have a food taster for the next 4 (hopefully 8) years; and he doesn't need it for the woman's vote since McCain's past voting history on woman's rights takes care of that. Then there's the issue of changing Washington politics. Can't do that with her since she's been an "insider" for decades. I know many woman wanted to see a woman president and so do I......just not Clinton.
On the subject of Bush - laugh at me if you will - but is anyone else still shocked to see a sitting President make false statements in regards to why gas prices are so high? Bush asserts its all the fault of Democrats in Congress because they won't allow off shore oil drilling, but everything I have read says companies already have leases they are not developing, that the US doesn't have enough oil to make a difference anyway, that we actually need more refineries than to drilling locations, etc. I suppose the Republicans are banking on getting the ear of people who don't have time to collect all the facts, but is anyone else disturbed to see the President of the United States speaking lies to the American people? OK, pick yourself up off the floor, I guess we have gotten used to being lied to by this administration. Still shocks me, though.
Will someone please explain why Obama slams Hillary as being part of the problem of the past and then he goeas and tabs the entire Clinton foreign policy team from the 1990's to be his adviser team?

Change indeed.  Sounds like more of the same from a snake oil salesman.
as I never get posted on your handpicked comments I will be brief Clinton has no intention of supporting Obama, never has, She is spending 10 hrs a day trying to figure out a way to discredit him. Lets see Vince Foster style? no no won't work 5 timesa, will it? Dig up some dirt to bring him down( already spending 24 hrs a day on that. Something will come up. In the meantime we can all see her out there on the stump for Senator Obama
So the fringe, extreme Hillary supporters that are willing to vote against the Democratic Party out of spite appear to be just that...

fringe and extreme

whew!
I don't see how Clinton helps him at all?

No overwhelming positives.
More negatives.
Makes him look weak if it appears he is forced to pick her.
Undermines his core message of turning-the-page.
She does NOT shore up his so-called "experience" gap.  He'd be better off picking a retired General.
And he should pick someone who was against the Iraq war from the start, like a Wesley Clark.

And don't forget about Bill and all his baggage.

Chris Rock said it best when he said [paraphrased] "My wife's been married to me for 20 years, but she still can't tell a joke."

I'm an Independent, and will vote for Obama with or without Clinton on the ticket.  I am not against Senator Clinton in any way, shape or form.  In fact, in someways, I miss her. McCain is so boring.  I just think Senator Obama should select a VP that has strong military and foreign policy experience, but will trust in whatever decision he makes.
Obama, 08
The very last sentence:

"And a double-digit percentage of former Bush voters in each state now say they’d support Obama."

Our current president is analogous the guy who turns gay men straight.

Obama 08


Obama will not pick Hillary Clinton.  I am a Hillary supporter, and even I can say that...because I'm not naive.  He should show independent leadership and pick someone else.  Someone who will help him balance his ticket, someone who can help him win battleground states, but also someone who will make Independents happy.  That person, unforfunately, I must admit, will not be Hillary, nor anyone from the Northeast.  Ugh. It's hard swallowing this pill called reality.  
What sunk Obama in the last months of the primaries was that people got to know a little bit more about him on a personal level, and they found out he wasn't that great of a guy. He only won the nomination because of the stupid way the Democrats awarded delegates on a percentage basis, and not winner take all. Typical Democratic way of defining "fairness" I guess.

The ideology differences between Obama and Clinton were nil, but now McCain is pointing out how liberal Obama is relative to the rest of the US. Once that message starts to stick, Obama's poll numbers will plummet.
Arora needs to stow it already.
All of these groups lobbying for a combined ticket are lucky that I am not running things. I would outlaw such crap as trying to force/coerce a political candidate to accept a person that they are not onboard with. I think the Teamsters/Maffia/Republican approach ought to be illegal!
Well than it is simple, most true dems will eventually come over to Obama b/c of his stances on important issues, but the real fight is over indies and they are turned off by Clinton. So Obama needs to choose his running mate not based soley on polls, but who he can work with most effectively and who balances out his strenghts and weaknesses. Clinton can be effective in his administration, but that should not be her role.
THINK AGAIN.
People have not forgotten

NAFTA
Divisions
So-called sexism
Lies
Campaign mis-mangment
Campaign fraud
The lit goes on

Unite support a innnng ticket without damage
By November, Hillary will be as forgotten as John Kerry was in 2005.  She started the campaign season with the highest disapproval ratings of any of the candidates.  Her horrendous campaign and frequent hurtful remarks will not enhance Obama's chances.

We need to think about downticket races as well. If Obama wants to pass universal healthcare, we need a filibuster-proof Senate.

The Republicans are demoralized, and we do not need to throw the "red meat" of the Clintons at them to wake them up.

Quinnipiac has a wonderful record of integrity.  They do not use misleading or prepared bytes.  Arora's partisanship has clouded any objective analysis.

Obama/Wetzler 08
Obama has many better VP choices than Clinton. The Governors of Ohio, Pennsylvania and North Carolina would all serve him better, both in terms of electability and in governance.
I think this final paragraph sums up what I've been saying and feeling for months; the greater unknown in our country right now are the true Independents.  I wonder how many there really are?  We keep seeing things that the polls cannot explain.  My last boss remains a good friend and he was a STAUNCH Bush supporter in '00 and '04.  He is voting for Obama.  You could have knocked me over with a feather when he told me.  I live in the very midwest, a battleground state and I have heard an awful lot of my peers whom I would have never thought would go blue, actually campaigning for Obama.  It really is a phenomenon.  I am trying to 'curb' my HOPE; but it is a wonderful thing to be a True Blue Dem in an often Red environment.  The Clinton supporters just don't seem to understand how much the midwest (as evidenced by Iowa) just can't stand them.  I was a fan, and I would have supported her - if I didn't have a much better option; but the reality on the ground is that the core Independents would have never supported her.  In many of the primaries, that tangible could not be measured or predicted.
A Latte Lover: "I'm an Independent, and will vote for Obama ..... McCain is so boring"

So are we to believe the Indies vote for President based on entertainment value? Well, at least there's a process. The Clinton years must have been a real treat for the Indies.
WE hate HILLIARY and all her supporters for that matter OBAMMA says "The republican party has been the party of IDEAS for the last 15 years or so" HE SAID IT.We believe everything he says so we should vote republican OHHHHH that was just something he said to get elected .He didnt mean Bill is a RACIST or HILLIARY is a LIAR he just said it to get elected OR maybe she is a MONSTER  UNITE with yourself WE just wont vote until our canaidate is in the race why vote for something you dont beleive in obammas people woulnt haqve voted for hilliary why vote for him YOU ELITE TYPICAL WHITE WOMEN SWEETIE

kenn
----------------------
There should really be a minimum age requirement to blog. This is a big problem now that summer has hit and elementary school is out.
People pushing the Obama-Clinton ticket are living in dreamland about 1) that team being able to win, and 2) that team being able to govern together effectively.

Sen. Obama will make the right choice, and it will be one of many highly qualified great democrats. The more these fringe people push for Hillary, the less likely he is to pick Hillary (for risk of looking "weak"). Perhaps the "Hillary 2012" strategy lives on, with these people just trying to stir the pot and stand in the way of party unity.


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