Obama vs. McCain: Patriotism & Wes

Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:20 AM by Domenico Montanaro

The Washington Post on Obama's patriotism speech. "Dogged by persistent rumors questioning his belief in country, Sen. Barack Obama journeyed to Middle America on Monday to lay out his vision of patriotism, conceding that he has learned in this presidential campaign that ‘the question of who is -- or is not -- a patriot all too often poisons our political debate.’” More: "Obama's speech came on the same day that his rival for the White House, Sen. John McCain, pushed back hard against criticism of his own record as a Navy flier and a prisoner of war. On Sunday, retired Army Gen. Wesley K. Clark questioned McCain's qualifications for the White House. ‘He hasn't held executive responsibility,’ Clark said on CBS's ‘Face the Nation.’ ‘I don't think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president.’”

VIDEO: A Race for the White House panel talks about Gen. Wesley Clark's comments dismissing John McCain's military service as a qualification for becoming president.

“Obama rebuked that line of attack Monday, acknowledging McCain by name in saluting veterans ‘who have endured physical torment in service to our country.’”

The New York Times: “Yet Mr. Obama’s effort to highlight his American values, delivered in a 30-minute address before a backdrop of flags, was complicated by the comment from General Clark. The war record of Mr. McCain once seemed like an unassailable asset to his presidential bid, but General Clark’s comments on the CBS News program “Face the Nation” -- that being shot down in Vietnam was not a qualification to be president -- raised the possibility that Mr. McCain’s military record would face scrutiny.”

NBC/NJ’s Matthew E. Berger notes: Wes Clark definitely played into McCain's hands here. His comments came at a time that McCain is ramping up the POW aspect of his biography -- he mentioned it on Saturday in a speech to the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials -- and his discussion with Billy and Franklin Graham Sunday focused on McCain's parents praying with Graham after McCain was captured in Vietnam. By putting McCain's military experience and his time as a POW into the mainstream conversation, Clark put a new important McCain talking point onto the front burner.

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Comments

Like I said in a prior post, the repukes will attack Obama's patriotism even if he were dressed like Uncle Same, singing the Star Spangled Banner, while grilling a hot dog, drinking a beer and watching NASCAR!

Pat Huntington NY (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:23 AM)

Okay....so how does being a POW make you eligible to be a good President?

Maybe some of you McCain people could answer that for me, because I'm stumped.

sotiredofignorance (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:23 AM)

It's too bad that Gen. Clark is stealing the 'moment' from Barack Obama. Whether you agree with Clark or not, he is definitely taking the wind out of Obama's sails on the subject of patriotism.

http://thepajamapundit.com/

the Pajama Pundit (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:27 AM)

sotiredofignorance
How does being a neighborhood organizer make you eligible to be president?

I remember those guys in Detroit where i grew up we called them Communist.

Sotiredofbeing tired (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:27 AM)

Questioning Obama's belief in country is interesting. The GOP is attempting to scare the undecided voters into thinking Obama is really against this country... Crazy tactics, but it just may work!!

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Obama For President!! (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:28 AM)

I agree with Wesley Clark. I have been trying to figure out how McCain's experience in Vietnam translates into Commander-in-chief and managerial experience. I have seen him very eager to go to war. But what else?? This hopefully will put a question mark in peoples minds.

Andrea, New York City (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:28 AM)

Somehow, I hadn't thought McCaine was claiming executive experience except as a squadron commander. Obama appears not to have any either. Both can claim their campaign experience which certainly would suggest Obama a more effective executive than McCaine. The real question is who can handle the executive decisions when all the options are lousy. I think Obama as he's demonstrated in dealing with some of the hairy things which have come up in this campaign.

j ferguson, Deale, MD (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:30 AM)

I have to agree with Gen. Clark, serving in the military and being a prisoner of war, doesn't give you the experience needed to be a good president, nor does it question McSame's patriotism. We're comparing apples to oranges, imo.

OBAMA/BIDEN, 2008!

KJ, Dallas, TX (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:31 AM)

how about spending time detailing his economic plan, his health care plan his education plan, his plan to help veterans his plan to help middle America, his plan to restore our constitutional rights all of them that where taken by bush/cheney/rove, his plan to restore Americas credibility in the eyes of the world, NO, no time for that, his plan is tell everyone he was a pow and if America is stupid enough to swallow that then it is BUSH for 4 more years.

thats a fact jack (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:32 AM)

Thank you Obama for letting me know that a patriot is not just defined by flag pins and car magnet ribbons.I sent packages to the troops but do not have a flag pin or yellow ribbon car magnet. Your speech on patriotism made my eyes swell, and helped me feel better about the way I choose to show my patriotism. Thank you Barack!

Stacy (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:34 AM)

Could someone explain please, how being a POW gives you a leg up for being POTUS. I suppose if you have little else worthwhile to show for your time in this world then it may be of value. But then when used in that manner, doesn't that somewhat diminish being a POW....sort of like selling it?

I am so tired of talk about patriotism, flag pins and other abstract distractions, can we have honest discussions about our real problems.
Every time the subject of patriotism, security or military service is invoked, is another day the GOP does not have to offer a good plan to correct the ills caused by the present administration. I only wish the MSM would stop buying what the GOP is trying to sell and hold them accountable for honest discussion.

gmhussein, Jupiter, Fl (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:35 AM)

Why is the spin on this story so one sided? Why does no one in the media want to address the fact that being in the military is not the ONLY pre-requisite for being a good President?

It is amazing to watch the group-think media in action. What is the difference between what we have now and state run TV? More choices I guess . . . but is it really a choice if you just have different faces offering the same spin?

Nashville_fan (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:38 AM)

Regarding the Senator's Patriotism, I hope you will consider this:
http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/as-a-veteran-my-heart-sinks/
As a Veteran, my heart sinks every time I see this photo and think that this man may become President of the United States and be in charge of our military.

ZachJonesIsHome Lincoln (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:38 AM)

Wesley Clark is right...Push button warriors hav eno sense of war...The GI pounding the ground faces it everyday..

McNuts never knew this until his was shot down..

So with that said, why does he have to still have no reguard for the the GI's on the ground...that's his pilot training and indoctrination...failing short of the true measure for the job he seeks....

Obama'08

BJ, CA (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:41 AM)

I don't recall McCain or any of his surrogates claiming that his POW experience qualifies him to be President. But his military experience is certainly part of his character, something we judge in our elected officials. The night he claimed the GOP nomination he said 'I owe this country far more than I've given her' which is pretty remarkable considering what he has sacrificed for this country-for all of us, and far more than all of us. Whether you agree with Gen Clark or not, and whether you hate McCain or not, his patriotism is not something any of us on either side should question. Why would an Obama surrogate even go near bringing something like this up with Obama's lack of military experience, in fact lack of any kind of experience?

Just Curious (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:43 AM)

If any other surrogate had made those comments about McCain's lack of qualification to be President, I would have said it was a gaffe. But, it seems to me if a Retired military General disputes McCain's claims, that bucket that holds a lot more water. I'd like to see more military people push back on McCain. No reason he should own this issue. The Republicans have mis-used the armed services, in my opinion.

Amy B Portland, ME (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:44 AM)

Gen. Clark is 100% correct in his statements. Being a veteran of the US Military nor being a POW instantly qualifies anyone for being the POTUS. In terms of being a POW, they’re (the captors) definitely not teaching you the finer points of Micro vs Macro economics. Nor are they serving lollipops and ice cream on a daily basis.

It does, however, show that you were willing to sacrifice for your country in ways the 99.9999999% could never fathom, whether forced (by the captors) or through your own fruition.

I served in two separate conflicts as a Platoon Sergeant of 35+ men and am proudly a card carrying, lifetime member of the Veterans of Foreign Wars, but this doesn’t make me qualified to be the POTUS. Neither does John McCain’s military record!!!!!!!

Tim J, Chicago (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:44 AM)

Get it straight. Tell me when and where McCain said that being a POW qualified him to be President? It has been shown/discussed is that was part of his service to the country. How many of you whined and complained when they pushed that with Kerry? Come on stand up, who of you questioned it then? You hypocrites. So, why don't you focus on telling us what accomplishments Obama has that qualify him to be President? And, I didn't say characteristics (he inspires, he gives a great speech). What has he ACCOMPLISHED on his own (and don't mention the legislation that he tagged his name own with others)? So, the person who always send that list of legislation, don't bother sending it. Tell us what it is, what it accomplished, what was the success, what was Obama'a participation. And what SUCCESS did Obama's PERSONAL actions deliver? Yesterday on the radio, they had people call in to say what Obama had accomplished. They couldn't answer. You'd think if you were calling in on the radio, you'd have an answer. Most wound up saying the reason was "he's not McCain." Pretty said reason to vote for somebody when you don't know what they've done in their life.

think (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:50 AM)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, Clark screwed up, took away from Obama's speech, and will now never be seriously considered for the VP slot. (I STILL say clark was assailing his LEADERSHIP ABILITY, not his service, but no one seems to have noticed that.)Anyway, let's move on. It was, afterall, Clark's comment, not Obama's

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:51 AM)

I agree with Berger. Wes Clark is McCain's MVP this week. As I noted yesterday, I do worry about the Clinton supporters bringing those in-your-face constant chirping tactics with them.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:52 AM)

I am so tired of talk about patriotism, flag pins and other abstract distractions, can we have honest discussions about our real problems.
-----------------
gmhussein: when a candidate has a less than one page resume and runs on "hope and change" that he can't define, then that's why character issues become prominent. And, you have to admit, your candidate didn't do himself many favors by attending a hate-filled, anti-American church for 20 yrs, that he associates with a domestic terrorist Wm Ayers, that he hangs out with felons like Rezko, that his self-proclaimed mentor Frank M Davis was a REGISTERED COMMUNIST. If you'd looked at the person instead of drinking the koolaid and being hypnotized during a speech, you might see why these are concerns to people.

think (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:55 AM)

Why would either candidate talk about this.

Americans are worried about gas prices, how to afford food, driving to and from work, and the economy.

That's easily the number one concern on Americans minds.

Any candidate who spends time talking about 40 years in the past doesn't understand what is going on in America.

Dan, McFarland, WI (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:57 AM)

Senator Obama gave a great speech. He tried to put the aspects of patriotisem into the correct context of political campaigns. I did not hear Gen. Clark's statements to be derogatory towards McCain. Gen. Clark is a 4 star general, a Rhodes Scholar and was first in his class. He also suffered 3 combat injuries. I believe him able to make an accurate assessment of what would be viable qualities for the presidency. I accept his comments as reasonable to the discussion he was having on air.
I respect General Clark, he did nothing wrong. However, I understand Senator Obama not wanting to participate in imaginary fires created by the republicans.

Obama 08 (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:58 AM)

Obama 08 (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 9:59 AM)

The New York Times: “Yet Mr. Obama’s effort to highlight his American values, delivered in a 30-minute address before a backdrop of flags, was complicated by the comment from General Clark.

*********************************************

Perhaps. However, problems are only opportunities dressed up in challenge. Obama's patriotism speech was made better, because he transcended politics on the cheap, and defended Senator McCain's sacrifice.

I love Senator Obama. I'm proud he speaks for me.

donna (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:00 AM)

NO ONE questioned McCain's record. Furthermore, Wes Clark was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. McCain is running on his "experience", yet he hasn't explained when he's been in an executive position where he's been the one calling the shots. The only thing I'm disappointed in is Obama's refusal to fight a little dirty with the Repubs. as they have taken every chance to discredit him.

Political Junkie (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:01 AM)

patriotism, n.

The quality of being patriotic; love of or devotion to one's country.

Above is the Oxford English dictionary definition of patriotism. I believe I can speak for a vast majority of people on this post when I say “Nobody is questioning McCain’s patriotism!!". We all understand that McCain loves this country and his fellow countrymen.
Again, this doesn’t qualify him to be the POTUS!!!!!

Tim J Chicago (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:02 AM)

McCain took part in making propaganda films for the communist while he was being held prisoner. He should have taken the high road like Kerry and waited until he was safe back here in the states to furnish the communist with propaganda footage.

Dave, Tn (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:03 AM)

...but General Clark’s comments on the CBS News program “Face the Nation” -- that being shot down in Vietnam was not a qualification to be president -- raised the possibility that Mr. McCain’s military record would face scrutiny.
-------------------------------------------

Why shouldn't McCain's war record face scrutiny? The corporate media had no qualms about helping to spread lies about John Kerry's military record. What's wrong about reporting the truth about McCain's?

Oh, I forgot, Kerry was a Democrat and McCain is a Republican who wants to continue the corporate welfare state. So naturally the corporate media, which benefits from the corporate welfare state, are going to cover up real problems with the Republican candidate and invent bogus problems for the Democratic candidate.

BTW: FirstRead "forgot" to mention that McCain has one of the Swift Liars working for his campaign, which says a lot about McCain's integrity -- like that he has none anymore.

Houston (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:08 AM)

It's never cease to amaze me...How the media can think they can determine what or who undermined whatever and then talk about it as if it's the gospel.

I didn't think General Clark's statement was a bad one and I certainly didn't think it underminded Barack Obama's speech.

Amazing isn't it. The media has gone beyond reporting news and facts - but explaining to us - what we should think.

I and many of us can make our own mind's up regarding how we felt about Barack Obama's speech and we are certainly able to separate it from what anyone else may have said or didn't say.

Give us a little more credit- we are that stupid

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA

The - Democrat Soldier (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:08 AM)

I have always said that McFossil has nothing else to talk about except his POW status; however, that does NOT automatically qualify you to be POTUS. Again, he should release ALL his medical records, including mental evaluations, as being tortured has GOT to leave some mental questions behind and that should be explored BEFORE any vote is cast. Does that make me less patriotic because I'd like to know his mental status or does that make me an informed voter? You can argue both sides, I suppose. McFossil has more problems than his military service and first he'd have to explain to me that if he's such a maverick in his own Party, then WHY did he vote WITH Bush 95% of the time in the Senate? The country can't afford a third Bush term and they can't afford to keep spending BILLIONS of dollars in Iraq when our own country is in a failing economic state such as it is today. McFossil would be BAD for our country any way you look at it. Period.

Diane from Illinois (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:13 AM)

The Lunitic Fringe is always there and will always be trying to exploit the moment with weird lies. You can also count on someone being upset with those lies and acting like a jerk. I think the dance is called politics. What people have to remember is, is the words "common sense." Take what you hear with a grain of salt and rely on your inner feelings. The professional liers are on the scene.

Pacheck, Huntington Beach, Ca. (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:17 AM)

I admire General Clark for making the comments he did, in the respectful (to me at least) way that he did it. McCain's record in the military should be a discussable topic in this race. To make it untouchable basically gives him a free pass, which is not something we need in a President.

If McCain is going to blast Obama for his "youth and inexperience" we should shine a bright light into McCain's experience and see if it passes muster.

It was horrible that McCain had to endure being a prisoner of war, and it was horrible that 50,000 American servicemen died in a War that accomplished nothing. I'm just not sure if McCain learned the right lessons from Vietnam. Survival is an instinct, but I'm not sure how it translates to the real issues facing our country

C Kent, Smallville, Minnesota (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:17 AM)

I am not a McCain fan, nor of most politicians, but how can a former military man like Clark not acknowledge that courage, discipline, and strength not be important to the Presidency. Why belittle McCain? Maybe Clark is looking for a position in an Obama presidency, and will say whatever to get it!

Tony D, New Mexico (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:17 AM)

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