Faith-based hiring and firing

Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:18 AM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC/NJ’s Athena Jones

The Obama campaign says the AP's first report this morning that Obama supports "their [faith-based organizations'] ability to hire and fire based on faith" is incorrect. In fact, Obama's plan, they say, would prevent organizations from discriminating based on faith.

Note: The second version of AP story says Obama would support "some ability to hire and fire based on faith."

The change is of one word, from "their" to "some."

But the campaign says the second version is still inaccurate.

EMAIL THIS

Comments

so why didn't tell us the REAL version then? Or, is it because the statements were true, they realize their gaffe and now they have to go back and change it? Sleazy, slimy politician just like the rest.

think (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:20 AM)

I still am curious what happened to the separation of church and state? People don't like it when the repubs try to shove it on them; they won't like it when the Dems do it either. How many more groups is BO going to pander to? Hey, my dog needs free flea and tick treatments. Where are his rights being covered by BO? And, what about our free ice cream every Wednesday?

think (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:22 AM)

So much for ending discrimination in the work force. The more I hear about this guy, the less I like him, and I am a life long democrat. I think that if he doesn't put Hillary on the ticket, I will write her name in election time.

William, Dallas, Texas (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:22 AM)

It's amazing that there has not been anything on FirstRead about John McCain's failure to pay property tax on at least one of his ten+ homes he and his wife owns. This information has been out for days. Not a peep yet!!

LB, Newark, NJ (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:24 AM)

This makes much more sense!!!!

Get it right, First Read. I am sure Obama's camp did not like this!!!

** 20% JULY BLOW-OUT SALE on Barack Obama products $8.99 & Up ( up to 80% Off). Use this coupon at this Obama Store.
http://www.MyObamaStore.com
Coupon - Obama20Now (20% OFF)

Obama For President!! (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:25 AM)

I read this story early this morning, and I seriously thought I'd gone crazy. I was ready to renounce any support I was ready to give to Obama, because this would encourage discrimination against those of us non-Christians out here.

Then, I find out that the AP manufactured the story and took slight insinuations as verbatim truth.

The media is screwing with this election, and it's getting very, very annoying. This isn't just your Rush Limbaughs or Fox Newses out there. This is the Associated Press, and then every blog out there. And it's not even true.

Thank you, First Read, for holding on to a story before posting on it. That's called responsible journalism. You guys were off your game yesterday; you're right on it today.

Brendan D, Niles, IL (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:26 AM)

The AP standards seem to really be going downhill recently. Maybe they can take some cues form reporters liek Tim Russert, or even the young and upcoming and well respected reporter liek Domenico Montanaro.

The Don, Missouri (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:27 AM)

Hiring and firing based on faith sounded strange to me from your previous story. It was confusing and I just decided to wait for more information. Thanks for the correction, but it sounds like more clarification needs to come.

Waiting for an update (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:28 AM)

I guess that's a LITTLE better...

http://thepajamapundit.com/

the Pajama Pundit (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:28 AM)

So, what ever happen to hiring the best person for the job? Asking someone their religious affiliation is discriminatory at the very least and should be treated the same as asking someone their age or the color of their skin.

Marty In KC (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:31 AM)

Also, could you guys report on this GI bill deal? What's up with Bush and McCain taking credit on it?

Almost like Romney saying that nukes proliferations is a liberal agenda? Are we seeing a pattern here?

The Don, Missouri (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:33 AM)

In operating a faith based charity, you need some of your brothers, and sisters of faith to work with you.

Any number of pitfalls come to mind. Can you imagine a Jewish, or Muslim soup kitchen, having to deal with a law that does not cooperate with them having meal planners, and cooks that abide by, and understand their dietary restrictions?

Believe me, there's a lot more to their religious concerns than not eating pork.

Christians deserve to protect their canons as well.

donna (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:34 AM)

Sounds like the AP hired some poeple from President Bush's justice department team.

Roofin Reality, Houston, Tx. (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:39 AM)

I hope both versions are inaccurate; NO ONE should be hired or fired based on faith. WE ARE NOT IRAN, PEOPLE!!

class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:40 AM)

It's just a shame that a presidential election in a democracy too often comes down to religious issues. This is NOT a Theocracy.....or at least, it's not supposed to be. Our Founding Fathers would be rolling over in their graves if they knew what our country has become. Religion is supposed to be a PRIVATE thing, but sadly it has become a public issue all too often.

Ron Jeffers, Arizona Independent (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:43 AM)

AP is sounding more and more like Foxnews.

AP is trying to muzzle bloggers, who usually call them out when they produce inaccurate reports.

New Wave (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:43 AM)

Come on media guys - do we citizens and the campaign have to start mopping up after your mistakes?

You guys need to focus - to me, it's simple. Don't try to interpret what has been said. Just report it, like it was said. Leave the interpretation up to the people that are reading what you report.

Don't you guys get it? We are not going to allow the media to dictate our thoughts anymore. THAT DAY IS OVER - JUST REPORT THE FACTS - NOT YOUR OPINIONS.

My goodness what is so hard about that.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA

The - Demorcat Soldier (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:44 AM)

Is anyone as confused as I am? Wouldn't this be a yes or no question, do you or don't you?

WTF (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:47 AM)

If they can hire and fire based on 'faith' why can't I hire and fire based upon race, political affiliation or hair color? Oh wait a minute, under the bushleague labor and justice department I can...

Rick, NC (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:47 AM)

Is anyone as confused as I am? Wouldn't this be a yes or no question, do you or don't you?

WTF (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:47 AM)

That is an important distinction, fellas.

Let's hope this indicates a step away from the administration of ideologues we have endured for 7/5 years.

Midwest Mom, Illiana (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:48 AM)

AP is a political hack that will do anything to distort Obama's record. The news organization is in tank for McCain

Bee (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:48 AM)

New agencies misquoting or misrepresenting candidates, SAY IT AIN'T SO!

Give me a break.

Obama-Junkie (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:51 AM)

It would be better reporting if the AP could wait until the text is available. I am sure after the speech today the text will be available and then the pundits can discuss. This trying to interrupt its content is wasted time and effort and can distrot the message befroe the message is given.

Terry, Great Plains (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:51 AM)

Well, either way, the remaining candidates still need to get good vice presidents, and there is a non-biased weekly poll at http://www.votenic.com . The results are worth looking at.

Josh, Austin TX (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 10:52 AM)

I think "think" is a mean ol' nasty talkin' republican who goes to church every Sunday and critizies his/her preacher the rest of the entire day.
Maybe it was the media's error and not the Obama campaign's. Ever cross your mind?

I think the media boo-booed (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:04 AM)

Did a jr. reporter write that? Now the AP dabbles in opinion? In the light of falling journalistic standards across the board it's sad Democrats get the short end of the stick every time. Nuance is a word lost on today's media.

CJ (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:05 AM)

Whatever is said about Obama people have to admit that he has some special ability to read and to reach out to people. His speeches about race relations, patriotism and now religion have been timed perfectly. His positions carry just the right tone, never offending anyone. The more he speaks and shares the more the outside eloquence proves there is an inside eloquence as well. This is a calm, confident, very bright and senstive individual. He will make a special President.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:07 AM)

I believe Obama is trying to walk a very fine line. The electorate as a whole has just enough kooks that believe in the " shake the dust of your sandals" directive to the disciples that "some" may believe that hiring in a, let's say Catholic services job for outreach to rape victoms, should only hire folks who are Catholic when it is entirely possible that a persons' education may allow them enough of an understanding of that particular faith, but maybe more importantly, education about rape counseling, to qualify them for the job regardless of their personal faith. To me any publicly offered job should not discriminate so long as a person is qualified for the job. If these jobs are listed within organizations that take government funding no discrimination should be allowed. If they (a church organization) wants to have people who are only of their faith then they should not take money from the government. Better yet Barak, why don't we go back to letting churches stay seperated as the Constitution suggests, but then would you be able to get that all important evangelical vote? I would hope that "change" would mean, getting out of Bush policy in most areas, but this one ( faith based initiatives) in particular has always made me feel very nervous.

Dand1212 (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:08 AM)

wait a minute!

I read the AP reports before reading the First Read entry - the situation in question is about faith-based organizations (not necessarily Christian) receiving Fed tax status and grants. This is not a wide-spread hiring/firing issue or statement for pete's sake.

Obama is simply saying that, for example, a Muslim Charity can still qualify for fed tax and grant status even if they use Muslim belief as a qualifier for hiring/firing. I find that to be absolutely acceptable. If I had a "Muslim" charity, I would want to be able (not required but able) to hire and fire those persons who do not reflect the charter of the charity. If the WORK done by the charity is congruent with the work supported by government grants, then that hiring/firing decision is irrelevant.

What he is NOT saying is that faith-based hiring/firing could be done in the government sector as it has been done in DOJ and HHS for example under Mr. Bush.

IMO as always,

Independent, Texas (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:10 AM)

This is why I think Obama is SO GREAT! Get your damn religion out of my life and STOP IMPOSING YOUR MORALS ON MY VIA THE LEGAL SYSTEM! Its all the religious establishment's attempt to control the people and our founding fathers fled from England to escape that kind of BS! Get your creationism out of my science class! Stop shoving your religious morality that the church leaders don't follow anyway (homosexuality, drug abuse, pedifilia going on behind the pulpit) into the faces of society. Take the 10 commandments off of public buildings or put the moral statements of the other great religions up there as well.

Separation of church and state! Obama is getting my vote!

From the bible belt where divorce and abortions are highest in the country (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:10 AM)

Obama/Webb

Secretary of Defense - Powell
Secretary of State - Biden
Attorney General - Edwards
McShame = Dog food

Nj (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:10 AM)

The same AP distorted his comment on Pakistan by suggesting he Obama is willing to bomb Pakistan. The same AP called him Osama at their DC rally while offering Donuts to McCain.

It is time to call a spade a spade. AP is not a credible news organization. Why can't they get their facts right?

Bee, NH (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:13 AM)

AP really messed up on this. The Obama campaign's memo, which has been out all day, is very clear that funds cannot go to organizations that discriminate based on religion in hiring decisions.

"The new partnership will not endanger the separation of church and state, so long as a few basic principles are followed. First, if an organization gets a federal grant, it will not be permitted to use that grant money to proselytize to the people it serves, and the group will forbidden to discriminate against them on the basis of their religion. And groups will be required to comply with federal anti-discrimination laws in their hiring practices—including Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin."
http://thepage.time.com/obama-campaign-memo-for-tuesday-july-1/

FSA, Bangor, Maine (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:19 AM)

It it TOTALLY inaccurate. Read the prepared text of the speech! He specifically says that religious organizations CANNOT hire and fire based on religion. Come ON. Chuck, I expect you to clarify this in a subsequent posting and call out the AP on their completely erroneous reporting. This is ridiculous.

jane, new york, ny (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:22 AM)

as long as "some" means the "ministerial exemption" that the law (and first amendment) already mandates, that's fine.

From the rumor reported in first thoughts, I was ready to ask for my donations back

Madison wi (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:23 AM)

Correct this mistake FR....why the delay? Also, still NOTHING about the back taxes on McCain!!!!!!!

Matthew, Michigan (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:24 AM)

I can't help but agree with everyone else that said to WAIT until you see it in writing and THEN pounce on it like the rabid animals that you are.

For the love of Pete can't journalist get the story right the FIRST time? A misspelled word here or there is no big deal, that's what a "reprint" is for but when you blatantly make a mistake like that it has the damaging effects of a 200 ft. tsunami! Did you people not hear about those idiots in Flag Staff???? They listen intently to the news and read emails that someone forwards to them and they believe whatever is said. They don't do any research of any kind and they falsely believe what ever you guys print or say on the news.

News journalist should take responsibility to ensure that the information that they are dispensing is true and not just rumor and innuendo. People depend on it because obviously they've never heard the saying "never believe everything you hear and only half of what you see".

Get it right people you have a HUGE responsibility VA (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:34 AM)

See..... just more of getting to know you.
I'm Obama and I approved this message

Pissed off Dem (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:40 AM)

Oh what a tangled web we weave when we try to dance with the religious zealots of the country...the Feds should stay out of the faith based world, because they are scary people!

Pat huntington NY (Sent Tuesday, July 01, 2008 11:42 AM)

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1177379