ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Obama camp hits McCain on Afghanistan

Posted: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:41 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From NBC/NJ's Athena Jones


This morning, the Obama campaign held a conference call arguing that McCain has shifted his position on sending additional troops to Afghanistan, which has seen a resurgence of the Taliban and increased US casualties.

After months of saying additional troops were not needed in Afghanistan, McCain changed position Tuesday and called for an additional three brigades -- or roughly 15,000 troops -- to be sent to the country. It was unclear if those troops would be redeployed from Iraq or come from NATO forces.

VIDEO: In the Hardball Big Number, Chris Matthews talks about the 22 times Barack Obama mentioned Afghanistan in his "major address" on foreign policy.

Obama adviser Susan Rice said McCain was out of touch and divorced from reality when it came to dealing with Iraq and Afghanistan, calling the Arizona senator's speech yesterday "surreal" and arguing that he has "no credible plan for either conflict and it's resolution."

"He says he wants to surge in Afghanistan without reducing our presence in Iraq, which the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff has repeatedly said is impossible," she said. "And he wants to balance our budget by 2013, in part on the basis of troop withdrawals from Afghanistan and Iraq which he opposes."

Obama communications strategist Robert Gibbs suggested McCain's stance on troops in Afghanistan had changed several times over the course of Tuesday -- and could change again in short order.
 
The goal of the call appeared to be to raise questions about John McCain's ability to lead on national security issues, an area where polls show voters favor the Republican.

McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds sent this email in response to the Obama conference call: “By committing to a policy for the war in Afghanistan before he visits the country and meets with our commanders for the first time, before he holds a single oversight hearing and after he voted against war-funding for the troops serving there -- Barack Obama has shown he views foreign policy through a lens of ideology rather than through looking at facts. Americans are tired of that brand of leadership, and are ready for a leader that will be prepared and put country first.”

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

What a child Obama has become. I guess he needs to appeal to his base voters though, so he really doesn't have much of a choice.
yes, Mcswine has flip-flopped once again, AND taken a page from Obama's book.  This shows Mcwar's thinking on foreign policy is not only not solid, but not very original, either; if he isn't copying Bush, he's copying Obama.
So, Tucker Bounds thinks Americans are tired of the brand of leadership that views foreign policy through a lens of ideology rather than through looking at the facts".  Whose leadership are we tired of? George W. Bush has been leading this country for more than 7 years. It is George W. Bush's brand of leadership that views foreign policy through a lens of ideology rather than through looking at the facts. And, John McCain would be more of the same.  Way to make an argument against your own candidate, Tucker!
"Americans are tired of that brand of leadership, and are ready for a leader that will be prepared and put country first.”~Tucker Bounds

Tired of that leadership?  You mean Republican leadership that has set the policy of war for the last 7 years?  Putting the country first? Like giving Tax Breaks to companies rather than civilians who spend money in this country?  Doesn't Ideology set the pace for plans on how to move forward?  How do you complete a goal for the country unless you have plans?  Do we just cut taxes until the corporate puppetmasters decide to throw a little our way??

Oh I'm sorry, your top advisor told me that whole tough economic conditions thing was "all in my head"

Independant voter, voting for a Democrat for the first time in my life. (I really don't believe in parties...I think it's divisive, but I do support candidates that I think are great for the country)
Precisely. The point is and has always been judgment. McCain has been claiming experience, but has never had an executive position militarily or otherwise. He hasn't been in a position where he's been the one calling the shots and if that is the basis of his argument for candidacy, it's an issue he will have to address.
If anyone watched Countdown last evening Rachel Maddow chronicled 6 or 7 McCain flip-flops on Iraq and Afghanistan.

He was convinced that Iraq was the center of the terrorist universe and Afghanistan no more than a politicsl problem.

After Obama gave him a coomander in chief lesson yesterday, McCain totally canged his position and wants 3 brigades to be sent to Afghanistan to supplement the undermanned forces there.

While he was in political denial about the need to wage the war in Afghanistan and intent on fighting an unecssaty war, the Taliban have regrouped to pre 9/11 levels.  The are now a major force that we need to defeat for a SECOND time.

After 5 uears, billions spent, 4000 American dead, 30,000 wounded the so called military expert now is willing to accept the fact that Afghanistan is the war we should have fought in the first place and a war we cannot afford to lose.

Tucker also said that Barack Obama voted against war funding for the troops serving in Afghanistan.  Is that true?  If not, First Read should follow up on that!
KUDOS TO THE OBAMA CAMP. POUNCE ON IT TILL THERE IS NO END IN SIGHT. MCCAINS CAMP WOULD... I'M JUST SAYING!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!
They both are just saying whatever the topic of the day is to get elected.  Obama was against all war at one time "lets just talk our way out of everything" but now he wants to attack afgans
And why doesn't Tucker Bounds continue and say the American people have no right to question or hold opinions contrary to McCains and Bush because they haven't been there.  Senator Obama offers the American people the best chance of confronting global terrorism and preserving our national security.  John McCain is unqualified to deal with the responsibilities of POTUS, intellectually, tempermentally and physically.  Vote Obama
Obama has a good point. If McCain is an expert in national security, then what is the plan for Iraq and Afghan. We can't have a surge in troops in Afghan if we maintain troops levels as there are in Iraq. Where will the additional troops come from? Maybe he is thinking about a draft because it does not make sense. Second, McCain as always been aganist sending more troops to Afghan and said NATO should handle it which it can't. In addition, he said the problem is not Afghan, but Iraq. As long as Iraq is fine, so will Afghan. Now he is saying something different. This is a flip flop because in a few days he changes his position.
The McCain response to the Obama call is very weak.
McCain's argument about actually going to Iraq before you can comment on the merits of pulling out U.S. troops is NONSENSE.  Why?  Because it presumes that there's important information over there that General Petraeus is withholding from Congress and the President that he wont diosclose until you actually come to Iraq.  This is a strawman argument set up by McCain.  There's absolutely no intel in Iraq that has not already been disclosed to Congress and the White House that the McCain and Obama camps are not aware of.  Still, McCain makes a big issue out of it.  

About Obama being inexperienced and his judgment questioned, it should be noted that Obama was right about not invading Iraq.

He was right about striking targets in Pakistan - which he got alot grief for - but the President did months later.  And now, it seems, he was right about Afghanistan all along.  

Not bad for an alleged neophyte.  McCain is just following Obama's lead. And that's what's really p*ssing him off.
Flip flop is a term the GOP invented. It now has come back to bite them on the butts. McCain needs to admit he agrees with the Obama on issues that Obama has been stating for the past few years. The GOP are out of touch with the American public and especially with foreign policy. Change is needed and change is what we will have.
I have always questioned McCains ability to lead on matters of foreign policy and national security.  Because he served in the military almost 40 years ago and was a POW does not automatically supremely qualify him to lead this nation.  That's image, not substance.  McCains speech yesterday stating "I know how to win wars!" came across as desperate and borderline unstable. It's obvious that Obama has dented McCains creds with his own statements on Afghanistan - reinforcing what he (Obama) has been saying all along - taking the lead.  The delivery may have a lot to do with it, but in contrast, Obama appears to have a steady hand whereas McCain is appearing doddering and unstable.
One more for McCain's many flip-flops. This one he did to copy Barack's call for two new brigade in Afganistan.

I have no problem with a candidate modifying their position (since no one in God or knows it all and everyone should seek to make change when situations change) but it is the way the press has actually gone after Barack when McCain has made the bigger changes.

Of note, Barack never changed on the death penalty. His position in his book and in the whole death penalty debate in Chicago was it should be reserved for the most heinous crime. Shame of the press for totally not doing their job.

Barack never changed on Iraq. He sought to refine the tactics of how but his strategy stayed the same and the press went off like they never went to English school. Presidents determine strategy because they have the big picture (reconomy, foreign polcy,...), generals provide tactics to carry out the strategy not the other way round.

Now McCain. Please fill in the many more changes:
Susan Rice comment of "surreal" is being kind. The ol' fella just can not keep up with a changing world. By election day even lock-step Republicans will see that.  The GOP is in a world of hurt and it won't get any better.  Actually Obama's thinking is bold in terms of shifting from Iraq to Afghanistan. He is not opposed to war, it's a matter of fighting the right war. It is Bin Laden whom we should have been after for over 7 years.
obama totally won the afghanistan and soon to be iran argument

Bush and McCain FLIP FLOP on iran
http://sensico.wordpress.com/2008/07/15/whos-laughin-now-suckers/
or
http://sensico2.blogspot.com/2008/07/my-blogs.html
I just looked up the voting record, and Obama voted "yes" on Iraq and Afghanistan War
funding on 6/26/2008.
"Barack Obama has shown he views foreign policy through a lens of ideology rather than through looking at facts. Americans are tired of that brand of leadership, and are ready for a leader that will be prepared and put country first.”

----------------------------------------------

Isn't that what the current Administration did and why the United States IS TIRED?  Just a thought
"...Americans are tired of that brand of leadership..."

Just fell out of my chair laughing.
Careful everyone.   One conference call does NOT a response, or a message, make.   The GOP is effective because they HAMMER the SAME message OVER and OVER again.  This could be an incredibly powerful argument for Obama to make but ONLY if he hammers it repeatedly, even to the point of people saying, "ok, we get it, please talk about something else."    Unfortunately, the attention spans of many Americans demand this kind of politics.
Hello "First Read", Why no Blaring Line about FLIP FLOP on Afghanistan from McCain????!

Why do you KEEP giving this guy a pass??  Oh I know:  He's been around longer, he's already been defined.  

Come On!!  BS!  He has CHANGED and deserves being examined anew . . . the SAME WAY you examine Barack!

What is going on MSM???!!!
I saw again a spokesperson for McCain on MSNBC asked the question "what are the differences in McCain policies and Bush" and she could not answer. She bobbed and weaved to the point that the moderator forgot the question himself and went off into the twilight zone. So I ask you supporters of McCain this simple question, what are the differences?
John McCain is speaking to clouds....I mean this man is just talking and not thinking.  

He will say anything at the moment that he feels is meaningful - and is an instant response even if it does not make any sense - once people realizes what he just said.

John McCain can't think by himself - he needs others (ie- Lieberman, Gramm, Black) - just like George Bush need others.  

John McCain will just be another puppet in office for the GOP Neo-Cons.

He will not lead or make decision on his own - he doesn't have the capacity or the knowledge to know seriously about the state of our economy or the state of the world.

The only thing he can hope for is more slander and garbage thrown at Barack Obama to hurt his image, because substance wise - he is no match.

He will be a complete and total disaster, if we think George Bush did a bad job - John McCain will certainly break that record.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Pretty clear Obama wins this round.

No matter how you slice, the bottom line is McCain changed his position on Afghanistan force levels to what Obama has been saying all along.
Actually Tucker, Americans are tired of "leadership" that doesn't have a clue.  Your candidate fits that bill.  There is plenty of information available for public consumption.  Even more information available to members of the US Congress (i.e. regular briefings from generals on the ground).  You do not have to be a West Point grad to figure out that going to Iraq was a dumb move that distracted us from the real war on terror, that we have to get out of there and finish the job we started in Afghanistan.  The people who killed over 3,000 Americans have still not been dealt with.

Just because your candidate (McCain) DOES NOT have the mental aptitude or judgment to see the facts for what they really are develop sound policy accordingly, doesn't mean you get to project that same deficiency on Obama.

Although I understand what the McCain camp is trying to do, that was a really lame response.
Americans are tired of that brand of leadership, and are ready for a leader that will be prepared and put country first.”
-McCain Camp

**********************************

That's a nasty accusation that Senator Obama is not a patriot.

Hey Scarborough! Do you get it now? African Americans don't like it when McCain, and the repubs constantly impugn other American's patriotism. Now the neocons have set there sights on Barack Obama to label him unpatriotic. Doggone skippy McCain's favorability numbers are down with Blacks.
McCain flip-flop? Better tell Joe Lies-bermnan, He might question John's principles. Maybe Joe didn't know that Mc Cain has flip-flopped on tax cuts, off-shore drilling, torture, immigration, etc. etc. Also he deceives ( attacking Obama about not voting on Kyl-Lieberman when he didn't vote on it either.) And the pattern of gaffes is a little concerning. Like Joe Lies-berman ,the MSM applies different standards to Obama and Mc Cain.
By the way , what is Mc Cain's experience in winning wars.?
Oh, and there's only one place for additional troops to come from for Afghanistan--out of Iraq!  It's clear that getting disentangled from the mess we've made in Iraq is key to a host of issues, ranging from budgetary disaster to actually dealing with terrorism in a constructive fashion.
The Republican talking point narrative is now entering its third tired week, when if you took 5 minutes and wrote yourself out a list of policy items, you would have to admit that Sen. McCain has flipped (ie- 180 degree reversal) on all of them except the war.  oh wait...  HE JUST FLIPPED ON THAT TOO BY FOLLOWING SEN OBAMA'S LEAD ON SENDING TROOPS TO AFGHANISTAN.  (if i could use bold uppercase i would)  HOW MANY WEEKS ARE YOU GOING TO SPEND SMACKING YOUR FOREHEADS SAYING BUT... BUT... SEN OBAMA USED THE WORD 'REFINE' IN A SENTENCE WHEN RESTATING THE SAME POLICY HE'S HAD FOR MORE THAN A YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Listen folks, label me and my cap lock what you will, but after burying the lead story of McCain's 'Actual' flip on troop positioning (actually flipping twice on where the troops would come from in the same day), you guys get no respect.  You are all cowards and have failed your professional duties.  Although it pains me to say so, Tim is turning in his grave.  And you know it.  This ‘defining’ narrative began as soon as Tim passed.  He is watching.  We all are.
Well...I guess it's 62 and counting now.  PLEASE EVERYONE READ AND SHARE, SHARE, SHARE!

http://www.alternet.org/election08/90956/
Macain is according to some out of touch living in a sureal world .Where pray tell does Obamma live,OZ ignore the man behind the curtain you people get what you deserve either way.The two party system hasnt let you down one covers the other as they both rob you ,carry on with what youve been doing Obamma played you for the fools you are DIFFERENT my ass.Hil;liary didnt change in the wind like Obamma
If anyone watched Countdown last evening Rachel Maddow chronicled 6 or 7 McCain flip-flops on Iraq and Afghanistan.
------------------------------------------------
And if anyone is actually expecting Rachel Maddow, or Countdown, to provide an unslanted news story they really need some help.
The McCain brain is totally befuddled by Obama's grasp of the complex nature of international affairs.  
Why is John "Grandpa Flip-Flops" McCain called a better commander-in-chief? Because the media keeps saying it with nothing to back that up.
The longer Obama keeps speaking, the more Americans will realize what a true leader looks like.

Now that is Change We Can Believe In!

Back to the Arizona retirement home for you John "Lovable Old Coot" McCain!
Its more important for the dems to win arguments.They sound just like the BUSHIES,When do we start working together to solve americas problems ohhhh when we finaly listen to your Ideas ,just like the BUSHIES,MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY
Barack Obama right on the $$$$$ again. The Bush administration is going to meet with the Iranian's on the Nuclur situation. Seems as tho, ole McNothing can't catch a break these days. Him & Bush trying to sandwich Barack on Tuesday with dueling news conferences was a Loss-Loss for the GOP.

Have Faith America, a new day is coming to our Beloved Country & it does'nt include the GOP at the Top. Probably not going to be GOP anything for sometime. Tis a gr88 day here in Rural Kentucky!!!

YeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaw!!!!!!!
Give me a break. Bomb bomb bomb Iran. McKinky just having some fun? Mc Crazy won't show up for a vote on Veterans benifits bill which by the way would help farmers, votes down the VA budget for at least four years runnig and they want Americans to beleive this guy cares about the troops. And has a coherant plan for political change accross the middle east. The surge has worked somewhat for several reasons, one of them being that a good deal of the population that lived out of their own ethnic areas had pretty much finished moving or had become refugees so there would have been a decrease in violence with or without the surge. Even with those successes Mcstupid thinks that Iraq and Afganistan are the same theaters of war. He's dead wrong and if he gets a chance to prove it the twenty or so stupid Americans who still believe in this guy will find that he has made a complete blunder along the same lines as his newest best friend, George Bush. Anyone who took the time to go online last night and listen to the complete message of BO will see that even though he hasn't been "ON the Ground" that the military people he gets his mentering from have helped him to lay out a plan that makes sense and though I hate the idea of cotinuing to send troops to the middle east, at least they should be strategically located to go after the people that will continue to do us harm. We need to help the Afgans to refocus there agriculture and yes give them farm aid untill they can become proffitable with other crops. Manny good Muslums who farm over there have asked repeatedly for help. Just like Chritians in our country who would have been hard hit if not for government aid and who knows where they would go if their kids were starving. These farmers are for the most part stuck in a sytem that gives then few good choices.
John,MI: You have not been listening to what Obama has been saying from day one about Afgan. or you are deaf,or plain unable to comprehend,or just lying for the fun of it.
Obama has said from day one that the troops should never have been taken from Afgan.in tne first place,that has been in all of speeches about the wars,keep the topics intellegent ,please.
Just one other comment and it was made by Rachel Maddow last night. (By the way, Kudos for the great job she did as substitute host).

She made the point that Obama has constantly put forth strategies that have forced McCain to change his positions constantly.  His position on Afghanistan is a perfect example.  What he does not do is reinforce them.  He makes the point and lets it go.  He doesn't hammer it home with repetion after repetion.  McCain does that until the point seems to have been his idea.

Obama needs to hammer the point home, time after time. He is ceding the advantage to McCain by not reinforcing his own platform and ideas that the McCain campaign is now parroting.
McFossil said yesterday,"I know how to win wars!" How, McFossil? Perhaps you can tell all of us HOW to win this war in Iraq? Does he still think we won the VietNam war? Just because he was a POW doesn't make him an expert in foreign affairs. I want the President to have better judgment than the current baffoon in the White House and that would be Barack Obama. He's had better judgement from the beginning concerning this awful war and he is right about Afghanistan AND Iran. McFossil's age is against him and his constant gaffes aren't making him any easier to deal with......as a matter of fact, they should scare the hell out of people. He's not right in the head!
Dear American Citizens and the Press

As a concerned citizen, I consider it is my duty to bring following message to you all.
 
"We the citizens of the United States of America have the ultimate responsibility to elect the " Right Candidate" to lead our nation, out of our huge present and future internal and external challenges as well as opportunities. This is to prevent depression and isolation in-spite of being the only superpower in the world morally, democratically, economically, and militarily.

We need to consider the "critical qualities and characteristics" of  our presumptive presidential nominees at the time we vote.

In my personal and professional opinion the critical considerations are as under:


1. Calm, cool, and collected " temper " [ Presidential Temperament ].
2. Sound and sustained "Judgment and Caliber".
3. "Thought-fullness and togetherness" of purpose and positions.
4. Minimum "ex-poser and exploitation" around "Washington and Washington insiders".
5. Renewed " Vigor and Vision " for our Greatgrand Nation.
6. Foreign policy based on " American Values, Virtuous, Vastness".

Stay informed, stay involved, and stay engaged. Do not allow some partisan media, pundits, pollsters, and perpetual political opinion makers effect your vote in the wrong direction.

Don't be effected and duped by "Psychological Terrorism" that is afflicted upon you all the time.

Long live U.S.A and its diverse but democratic people.

Col. A.M. Khajawall [Ret] MD., ABFM., ABDA.
Chief Consultant: World Wide Porfessional Consultants[WWPC]
Colonel, USAR/MC Combat Stress Control[Ret], Disabled American Veteran and Freedom team.
Consultant Psychiatrist: CA State, Medical Board of California, and Los Angeles Mental Health Department
Address: 7642 Eaglehelm Court Las Vegas NV 89123
Obamma has supported every bill sent by BUSH for the war ,just like hagel.NOW SPIN SPIN SPIN ,other democrats voted against funding WHY NOT OBAMMA POLITICS thats why.Now explain how different he is CHANGE AND HOPE.Now he wants his democratic friends to sign up and go fight in Afganistan WELL the sound you here is footsteps running in a different direction from the fight CHICKEN HAWKS dems AND repuckers
Who awsked for rummsfields resignation first OBAMMA or MACAIN?
What kind of judgment in war can we expect from McCain:

-who graduated in the bottom of his academy
-who got himself shot down in Vietnam
-who spilled all the secrets while a POW
-who doesn't know whether certain countries still exist
-who doesn't know his Shiite from his Sunni
-who thinks Iraq was correct from the start

Answer...bad judgment.  
Great speech. Concrete ideas. He really thinks—It is great to have a really smart candidate for a change.

And I notice also that McCain and now Bush follow Barack's ideas.






Maybe McCain has in mind reinstitution of the draft.
Could someone please get McBush a clue?

He seems to have lost any that he may have had.
This is why you can't just withdraw a few troops from Iraq and plunk them into Afghanistan.  We haven't even got enough troops in Iraq to do the job that needs to be done in Afghanistan.  At least not according to the generals.

http://westhawk.blogspot.com/2008/02/general-mcneills-view.html

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=50213

But who listens to generals, anyway?  Not the Bushies, certainly, and evidently not Senator Mc"ICanWinWars," either.

The more things change, the more they stay McSame.
Linda

it is true that Obama voted against it--because a lot of the funds weren't being set aside for the troops, but for infrastructure in Iraq.

Bush and the republicans during the first two years of Barack being in the senate, packaged alot of stuff that Dems didn't like with troop funding.  If you look at how the Dems got bush to sign off on the new GI Bill, they packaged it with some of the things Bush wanted so he wouldn't veto it.

He and McCain were totally against the new GI Bill saying it was "too generous".  Let's see, you send men and women to Iraq 4 or 5 times and providing them a chance to get a good education after they separate... is TOO generous?  That's like telling these kids to play Russian Rullet and saying that if they survive... their consulation prize is... NOTHING!!

It's a total slap in the face of servicemen and women and I can't understand for the life of me understand how anyone in the military would vote for McCain!  He's all for sending them to war, but doesn't think their service deserves retribution.

 


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1201834

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google