ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: It's Joe Biden

Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 9:15 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
DENVER -- We confirmed the news after midnight, and then after trying to get a little sleep, this text message at about 3:00 am ET woke us up: “Barack has chosen Senator Joe Biden to be our VP nominee. Watch the first Obama-Biden rally live at 3pm ET on www.BarackObama.com. Spread the word!” A 3:00 am wake-up call, you just can’t make this stuff up. And there were two collective sounds you could hear over the beeping cellphones and the buzzing blackberries. On the Democratic side, it was a collective "phew." As the days got nearer for the pick, it was hard to find a Democrat -- even savvy Clintonites -- who weren't hoping it would be Biden. Only the most strident Hillary supporters appear to be upset this morning. On the GOP side, the sound you heard was disappointed silence. Of everyone on the short list, the candidate many Republicans least wanted to see Obama pick was Biden. Sure, they've already trotted out their talking points. And the McCain camp even produced a rapid-response TV ad highlighting some unkind words Biden said about Obama during the primaries. (We assume this now means McCain won’t be picking Romney, right? And doesn't the McCain ad actually send the message to swing voters that Obama's willing to surround himself with critics?) But there are too many intellectual conservatives (see David Brooks) who believe Biden's the most qualified guy Obama could have realistically picked.

*** Joe’s strengths…: As chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he has plenty of foreign policy experience -- something viewed as a weakness for Obama. Also, Biden’s most recent presidential bid raised his national profile, making him a politico whom most Americans know, which could help reassure some voters who have doubts about Obama. In addition, whether it has been in recent speeches or on Meet the Press, Biden has showed that he’s up to this veep responsibility: whacking the opposition. What’s more, during his presidential bid in ’07-’08, Biden demonstrated that he’s a very good debater, a quality the Democrats might want to showcase during the vice presidential debate scheduled for October 2. And electorally, Biden could help lock down Pennsylvania, as well as connect better than Obama has in blue-collar Michigan and the "U" of Ohio (Toledo to Youngstown). A few more thoughts… Biden is someone that will play well with older white voters, a demographic group Obama's struggled with, and he’s very popular with labor and trial lawyers, which while helpful financially for Obama and in the Rust Belt, could fire up the business community even more for McCain.

*** … And his weaknesses: Obama has railed against Washington and Washington insiders during his campaign, but few people are more inside Washington than Biden, who has served in the Senate for 36 years (by comparison, McCain has been in the Senate for 22 years). Furthermore, Biden often has been a gaffe machine -- whether it was calling Obama "clean" and "articulate" (news that marred his presidential announcement in 2007) or stating in 2006, "You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent.” And there was that plagiarism scandal that knocked him out of the 1988 presidential race. Perhaps the biggest question: Just how well will Obama and Biden mesh? Has Biden been anybody's No. 2, ever? He's run for president TWICE for a reason (the first time Biden ran, Obama was just starting law school, by the way). Biden has an actual "boss" for the first time in his political career. Is he ready to ride shotgun? And is it a problem that Obama-Biden is a mirror image of Bush-Cheney from 2000? A charismatic, inexperienced nominee taps a more experienced, dare we say, arrogant No.2? In fact, there are a lot of Republicans who believe they can sell Obama-Biden as "the Audacity of Arrogance times two."

*** Back to Springfield: When Obama and Biden appear together this afternoon at the Old State Capitol in Springfield, IL, it will come just more than 18 months after Obama officially launched his presidential bid from that historical venue. (It’s where Lincoln gave his famous 1858 “House Divided” speech, in which he railed against slavery and how it had torn the nation into two. “A house divided against itself cannot stand.”) While today’s event will be a bit warmer than it was on that February 2007 day -- it was close to 10 degrees! -- that announcement back then was the first sign that there was something to Obama’s candidacy. Despite the frigid weather, close to 20,000 showed up on that day, and the crowds at his rallies only grew. Now, with the polls tightening, Obama needs to draw on some of that Springfield magic. Can he deliver?

*** The big bounce? Now for some non-VP news… Yesterday, the McCain campaign released a memo saying that Obama should receive a 15-point (!!!) bounce from his convention. But here’s a big caveat: We haven’t had a back-to-back convention schedule in a very long time, so it may make historical comparisons moot. But let's crunch some numbers from the Gallup chart McCain's campaign sent around. The average Dem convention bounce since '64 is 6.2 points. The average GOP convention bounce since '64 is 5.3 points. The average FIRST convention bounce: 6.3 points. The average SECOND convention bounce is: 5.2 points. With just three instances since '64 of open-seat presidential elections, it's useless to attempt an average if you did this average based on Olympic score (tossing the high and the low), the average convention bounce would be 5.6 points, which feels about the right bar for expectations. The Clinton example the McCain folks are using -- 16 points after the '92 Dem convention! -- is really a reach considering that Ross Perot (who was the front-runner the week before the Dem convo) dropped out the week of the Dem convo. So toss the Clinton bounce out any analysis window.

*** Saying goodbye to those red states? In addition to that memo, the McCain campaign yesterday furiously pounced on a report that Team Obama was pulling its advertising in red states -- like Alaska, Indiana, Montana, North Carolina, and North Dakota -- suggesting that the Obama camp was abandoning its (almost) 50-state strategy. But as Lee Corso might say, “Not so fast, my friend.” A senior Obama campaign source told First Read that the campaign wasn’t planning to be on TV next week during their convention, but the McCain is up with negative spots in 11 states, and they wanted to match them in those 11 (which doesn't include any of those ruby-red states). Moreover, the source assures us that the campaign will resume its larger TV buy once the convention ends.

*** On the trail: McCain is down in Sedona, AZ. Obama holds his rally in Springfield at the Old State Capitol.
 
Countdown to Dem convention: 2 days
Countdown to GOP convention: 9 days
Countdown to Election Day 2008: 73 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 150 days
 
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Comments

It is absolutely true that some of Biden's political flaws will become assets when teamed with Obama. Swing voters in the Rust Belt and key states want a gregarious guy with a big mouth who will tell it like it is to their face. Biden will do that.

The campaign just needs be careful of him getting too comfortable on the trail and blurting out something he regrets...

http://www.political-buzz.com/
I believe McCain is really delighted this morning!  The thing he feared most was a Clinton on the ticket.

Obama is for change and he selects an old line Democrat who is arroagant.  He also had a brain anralysm (sp?).

I think this one is going to go thunk!  Also, all the old Democrat retreads are showing up in the news... They are positioning themselves for a place at the public trough in Jan 2009.

Of course he was a good choice because he brings those things to the ticket that Obama lacks!  He should be the Candidate and Obama should be the VP.

I love the Democrats.  They seem to do a nice job of self desructing.

One last thing...Obama has not yet been nominated!  Sparks could still fly at the convention in Denver.
The Clinton's are not dead yet.  And this choice has made them and the women of the world fighting mad.

I've wanted to see Joe Biden in the White House for a long time, and if this is the closest he can get, that's fine with me. He's a great choice who will wipe the floor in the debates with anyone McCain puts up against him. The thought of Biden sparring with Romney is absolutely DELICIOUS!
Politics as usual.  Change?
oh no, biden really brings nothing to the ticket and obama needs a lot of help. mccain has already put out a new ad with biden saying obama was not ready. we needed someone from a red state or at least a battleground state not someone who voted for bush's anti bankruptcy law. that's right! biden voted for it. I was shocked when my sister told me to go to bankruptcy law senate vote for the roll call.

I'm afraid it's over. no healthcare reform, no anti bankrupycy reform for the struggling middle class, no end to high fuel prices that are killing this country.

missouri, florida, ohio, virginia all are breaking to mccain. how depressing. in a year no democrat could lose, obama-biden figure out a way to.
You have got to be kidding me!  The Dems are saying, "Phew!" and the Republicans are silently unhappy.  The opposite is true.  This is the most lackluster pick Obama could have made.
Excellent choice. Can't wait to see Obama/Biden elected and Bush/Cheney evicted from the White House.
A really cool 3 a.m. text message announcing Biden as v.p. How hip and cutting edge. Obama is going to change the world, cure AIDS and solve all America's economic woes!!! Whoa, this is making me dizzier than a Green Peace member at a free hemp party at Berkeley.  
Congrats, Joe!  Good pick, Sen. Obama.

Who says that they "announced" it to the media first?  They may have, but it also may have that the media has been dogging their contacts for so long, that they finally said "oh, the hell with it" and let the cat out of the bag.  You can't say that, overall, they didn't play a good hand for the last two weeks.

I knew it was Biden as well, since Chuck mentioned that he was doing the things that someone does when they are going away for a while, and they other guys were not.  I was hoping for a dark horse surprise, just for the fun of it, but the choice, IMHO, is the right one.

Please don't mistake intelligence for arrogance.  If you don't like Obama personally, OK.  However, do you REALLY want another 4-8 years of what we have now?  What makes you think that McCain isn't arrogant?  The constant use of "my friends" in that patronizing tone?  The cover of "Architectural Digest"?  The $750,000 monthly AMEX bill?  The $520 shoes?  The trophy wife?

Please be reasonable, here.
Biden - another sanctimonious windbag - perfect for Obama.  
Chuck Todd & Keith Olberman are the only ones on MSNBC that I respect.  When are you going to get rid of Joe Scarborough!!! He is the most biased, arrogant know-it-all one could possibly watch!!!How Meika stays on with him is beyond my ability to understand!! As for the VP pick, I am thrilled..Yes We Can Joe Scarborough!!!
So tired of the comment...people have a hard time changing..when the change is for the people, for the positive side of things, well thought out and discussed from all sides...I love change.  

You women who continue to support Hillary and say Obama has treated her badly..in what way?  

And please explain to us why you would now vote for McCain.  Does that not tell even you that your hard support for Hillary is strictly emotional.  Think for goodness sake.  What he (McCain) would do to the court would for sure put women back 100 years.  It just does not compute to anything but by God Hillary is a woman and I am going to vote for her for that reason only.  Your anger has grown foolish.
For all of you Hillary supporters: Did you REALLY want Obama truly vetting her AND Bill? With all of the financial shenanigans of the Bill library project? The finances of the "speaking engagements"?
Obama did her a favor by not vetting her.
Obama/Biden 08:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPev5sEdTjg&feature=related
All this whining about Hillary being dumped again is akin to fingernails on a blackboard.  She ran a good race ~ and lost.  Only one person is responsible for her not being seriously considered ~ ~ William Jefferson Cinton!  Bill most likely figured more heavily in her not getting the nomination than we will ever know ~ or he will ever admit.  
This is a superb selection on the part of Obama, he's displaying his pure genious yet again...

(IS IT JUST ME, OR IS THIS GUY SHOWING HOW TRULY SMART HE IS, AS WELL AS TO THE TYPE OF LEADER HE WILL BE???)

This balances out the ticket across the board. And not only that, but Biden's heart is in the right place...

What bother's me however is all the pundits saying how this might upset the Hillary supporters -and it may- but incase nobody else figured it out yet, she's not entitled... I've always personally held the Clinton's in high regard, and i'm workin' on getting it back, but this notion that she shouldv'e been consulted about ANYTHING is total nonsense...

Ya know what??? At the end of the day it's either going to be Obama, or McCain, and if Hillary's supporters can't get pass all of this for the sake of their party, their Country, and more importantly, their kids, Then go ahead and vote McCain... Or stay home, in which case is still a vote for McCain by default... {But over the next 4 years try realigning your priorities...}

I'm sure Obama can live with it, for after all he is about the people, and if they don't see that, then they'll undoubtedly get what they deserve...

As a Nation we're about to enter into one of two doors. Which one will it be??? McCain has shown his intellectual capacity, and doesn't conceal his intentions on where he's willing to take our Country, but if the cynical folks can't see this, and to the point that it affects this election, then Oh well, we'll have to suck it up, keep our complaints to ourselves, and try again in another 4 years.

(...Or maybe 8 years, when the minority of this country begin its journey into becoming the majority, which without doubt will prove wiser than our parent's generation)

"HOW OBVIOUSLY SAD, BUT TRUE"
McCain has already stated on multiple occasions he will bring us into more wars. He also stated on different occasions he is not against the draft (however his staff insists he is). My question to you is; Are you happy with the economy right now? The Iraq war, along with McCain’s friend/financial advisor (Grahm), is the main reasons the economy is in the condition it is in! How does McCain expect to wage more wars and fix the economy at the same time? It is impossible! We (active duty soldiers) can't even rotate duty stations near the end of the fiscal year due to being over budget. We don't have enough money for the wars we are already in! We don't have enough soldiers to fight more wars. We are already overstretched and doing multiple tours. You make it out of one deployment alive and intact to find out you have to go through it all over again! We do not have enough soldiers for another single war. This means a draft would be necessary. We would need additional money for the soldiers, more weapons, more tanks, more helicopters, more aircraft, more ammunition, more armor, more food, more uniforms etc…… Take a second to think about our economy after all this! Please don't do this to our country or us soldiers. We are the ones you are punishing. I know a draft seems like a long shot to civilians, but it is obvious to us in the military. We can only do so much with the people we have especially if we are all wounded or dead!!!!! Think about the consequences to everybody. There is a reason the military is donating 6:1 to Obama. We can see the end result of a McCain presidency. You would think military would vote for a retired military war hero, but we are not!! I think we are more afraid of McCain than Bin Laden.
Signed,
U.S. Soldier
OMG! What has either ever done! Obama is a sexist for not taking Hilliary or the Gov. from Kansas. Obama hates woman. His first decision is an even longer serving white male senator who has already been caught in lies since Obama was in college. Give me a break. I can't vote for these two sexists.
Ind. now backing McCain-you need to start considering how McCain will treat your family, not about your perception that Obama mistreated hillary.

Laura Deland-what does a leak in his campaiagn  have to do with anything? Explain to me how that somehow demonstrates that Obama would be a bad president for the american people?

Thomas from Georgia-reverse socialism (ie-plotocracy) is not the same as capitalism. The republican leadership is not interested in promoting economic competition.

Reading comments on news article are viewing internet discusion forums makes me wonder if there is any hope for us at all, not a single mention in any of these comments of education, healthcare, jobs, the dying middle class.

maybe one day we will all wake up and instead of looking for sound bite politics and discussing who said what to who we will talk real issues.

one day.
Smartest Choice!  HRC fans need to either get over it or get out!  Sick of their entitled pouting.  

Obama/Biden!
I think Joe is good man, but I think it was a mistake. He should have picked someone from a South State. I feel who wins now falls on who McCain picks. If McCain picks Ridge, its over and Obama wins...If McCain picks Joe L. that would also be very bad...I think Obama wins again...If McCain picks someone like Huckabee, I think he locks the south and RUNS away with the election. In fact I don't think it would be even close. Just my opinion. BTW-I have made up my mind---I'm with McCain...due for one simple reason of my own...I feel that ANYONE who is commander and chief should at sometime in their life, serve in the military.

Jeff
I know no one cares about Montana, but Biden may help put its 3 votes more in play.  Biden was mentored by Mike Mansfield who was the most popular Democrat in Montana history and many older voters still speak glowingly about him even though they tend to lean Republican.
Biden voted for the war. More "change" I see...I'm voting for NADER this time, I just can't take the hypocrisy and the bs lying anymore
With their new ad, the McCain campaign invited the Obama campaign to play hours and hours of McCain and Romney saying much more negative statements about each other during the primaries.  Did they really want to go down that road??  Joe was a great pick!
I just listened to your conversation about the race factor and can we overcome it but I never hear from you about the flip side of that and the fact that blacks are 94% for Obama, what about the racism shown from them?  Why is it always the whites who are showing racism on your show instead of equally reporting the racism from the black community?
It really isn't what the dems think or Obama's adoring media thinks, it's what the independents think about this decision that will determine the outcome of the election.  Obama did nothing for women with this pick.  That resonates, loud and clear.  The 3 am text call also took a stab at Hillary's 3 am call-ready ad ... very bad form, in my opinion ... like salt in a wound.    
Obama has made his choice. SO now I'll be making mine; I'll vote for McCain.
I guess he needed an old white haired guy...
Hey Laura, don't vote for Obama, I hope you have children that McNuts will draft to war!!!! You deserve that with your ignornace!!!!!!! Talk abort arrogance, "it's better which Obama does not have" than stupidity which McNuts, McSenile, McIowe 7 oh I don't know how many I own has!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a saying: Practice makes perfect. At some point in everyone's career and with each new life experience, we are practicing. The other piece to the saying is: Bad practice makes things perfectly bad. Practice is an essential element of 'experience'. For my money, Obama has practiced well and has evolved as a font of political wisdom well beyond his years. By the way:
Has anyone noticed that McCain has a terrible memory? He is also perseverative, handles open ended questions poorly blurting out whatever comes to mind. Does McCain have early Alzheimer's disease or some other form of dementia? Would not be a good choice for president.
To Laura in Boston:
Sometimes a strong sense of self-confidence can be interpreted as arrogance.  I think that in this case it is self-confidence that gives him an "in charge" mode.
This First Read report did not come up in Google News/Elections. I had to type "Biden" into news search to find it. Strange, since First Read is very popular.
Obama/Biden: "Not too Radical and Not too Boring"

As One of the Millions of Freedom Loving Independents that gave President Bush a "Good Old Fashioned Political Thumping" (Bush's "words", not mine), this Last November 2006, and "Saved the Republic from the Republicans", us Independents consider Obama's pick,  an Excellent and very Smart Choice.

Republicans, be afraid, be very afraid.

Biden was the democrat who helped push through the Bankruptcy Reform Act under which so many middle class Americans are now suffering. He is not a man of the people, but the darling of the credit card lobbyists.
I still haven't got my text message.  Where's the change?  More empty promises.  An HRC supporter from the beginning, I've been told to take another look at Obama.  So, I did.  Can't say that I'm impressed.

I like Biden.  I think he's a brilliant politician.

But, where is the 'change I can believe in?'.

And where the heck is my text message?

Still not voting for Obama.  I'll vote in the state elections but have little faith in and admiration for Obama.  If he does get elected, it will be both reaffirming and tragic to see what people think of him after the first few years.  
Joe Biden? ZZZZZZZZZZZ....... If Obama was the "agent of change" and wanted to appeal to independent voters, he should have crossed party lines and picked Chuck Hagel. A vet with foreign affairs experience who could have picked up votes in the red leaning states
A GREAT V.P. CHOICE. BIDEN IS KNOWLEDGEABLE AND CAPABLE OF ASSISTING OBAMA IN ALL AREAS! HE ALSO
COULD TAKE OVER THE PRESIDENTIAL POSITION WITH EASE
SHOULD ANY UNFORSEEN CIRCUMSTANCES OCCUR. THIS WILL GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH THE EXPERTISE TO MAKE IT HAPPEN!!
I know some disappointed women who were rooting for Hillary. They will be voting for McCain.

Obama wanted someone to challenge his thinking. This is just going to be a mirror of Bush / Cheney. Obama will be the puppet and Biden will be running the show.

Biden has all sorts of ties to lobbyists and his wife is on several corporate boards making 800K per year. Obama will be for higher taxes and Biden will be for more of the same ineffectual leadership.
Well that does it. What an AWFUL choice. Voice of change picks Washington stooge and plagiarist. This Hillary fan will vote either McCain or Nader. He pick shows how little judgement he has. What a mess.
It's a poor choice and deeply disappointing.  Joe Biden could not even carry his own state of Delaware during the primaries.  If he really wanted to unify the party, Barrack should have chosen Hillary or at least someone from one of the bigger states with more electoral college votes.  
Biden will not help remmber the debates very bad choice. Now more than ever Hillary vote will just not show at the polls.Even Hillary would of been better could of ship Bill over to the UN.This election was just won by McCain its 2000 all over again.
I wish I knew why he didn't pick Hillary.  I was a HC supporter, but not rabid. Biden is a non rich, family oriented, talented/experienced guy. Best pick of the people I heard on the "short list."  I don't see how he is going to help much w red states,however. Boy will he have a lot of crow to eat re his past statements!
Hello,

For all those Hillary Clinton supporters who say that they would rather vote for McCain than Obama, I say to you that you probably haven't been looking at the issues and are just being spiteful.

Can you afford to do this.  Hillary and Barack are so close on issues, and McCain is as far away from their thinking as you can get.  Vote the issues!!!  If you supported Hillary, they you need to support Obama and put the child like behavior away in favor of helping the country.

McCain cannot wait to invade someone, anyone!  The day after 9/11 he wanted to go into Iraq.  He has been saber rattling against Iran, and wants us to fight with Russia because one of his "top advisors" is the Lobbyist for Georgia.

Isn't it time to take care of this country! You all need to get on board for the sake of the nation.
Obama picked the correct running mate if he no longer wants to get a word in edgewise. Biden is a well-known windbag with an over-inflated ego. He will be good fodder for Saturday Night Live.
I'm like Virgil at the gates of hell trying to rationalize bitter Hillary supports who say they will vote for McCain. His policies are so far from Hillary's.
I was sad when Dean didn't get the nod back in the day. I sure as heck didn't vote for Bush!
The U.S. could not do better than to have Obama-Biden leading us and representing us to the world.  Both are statesmen of character and integrity with solid values and perspective.  Their individual strengths make for a strong team.  Enough with ignorance, lies, warmongering and corporate interests first.  Obama-Biden will lead us forward in a positive manner.  Now what we need are for those who support Hillary Clinton to assess their choices, to think of the repercussions of those choices for the next four years and to do what is in the best interests of this country, themselves and Sen. Clinton.  An Obama-Biden win is a win for all of us.
I hope;
- That feminist Democrats realize what a snub this  
 is for Hillary, and lets the party know at the  
 convention.
- That media Democrats like Keith Ogreman choke
 on their OBAMA COOL AIDE in November.
- That anti-war Democrats realize that Biden is the  
 the biggest hawk that Obama could have picked.
- That anti-establishement Democrats realize that
 Biden is the most establishement guy Obama could
 have picked.
- That environmentalist Democrats realize that Obama
 is going to give in to offshore drilling because it
 is the political thing to do.
- That black nationalist Democrats realize that the
 Biden pick was to bring in redneck white collar
 folks and likely bring nothing to their cause.
- That anti-Nafta Democrats realize that Obama will
 change little about our trade policy, because he
 can't. Bush put tariffs on foreign steel a few
 years ago, until Europe threatened to stop buying
 our agricultural exports. That cat is out of the
 bag and is not going back in.  
- And Young Democrats realize that in case of war  
 they will be drafted if enough don't volunteer,  
 social security will not be there if it is not  
 privatized, they will working more and making  
 less due to higher taxation, and will have a worse
 health care system than we already have.
- And finally, that Independent, Patriotic Democrats
 realize that Obama wants to be an International
 leaning President, needing consensus to protect our
 interests, and buying into more UN programs that
 bleed our economy to pay off despotic dictators
 posing as humanitarian leaders.  

If my hopes come true then just maybe enough dis-enchanted Democrats will stay home and this country can be saved.  Otherwise, second world power here we come.  
I think this is  the last chance to save america.
Obama/Biden are our only hope. I own a small company in New England, that is about to go belly-up because
of the no common sence Bush/Cheney-McCain feed the
rich and starve the poor Politics.
What a GREAT! choice for V-P
Let's be honest. We are only human "mortals." Howevr, no matter how you cut it there is and always will be as difference between a seventy year old guy/gal and a guy about forty five. Don't try and justify things otherwise!
Also, there is the tradition in thge USA that everybody who has ever been the President of the USA had "Irish" blood in them. Check it out and if you don't agree then do your own research. You will see that I am right, again.
Well, maybe Biden can put something into that "pot" soon to come.
Now, everybody back to Georgia and that Napoleon "complex" guy named "Putin."
How many of your readers or writers picked up on some of the things that Put-in (put him in something, your option, winner gets....)has done or said like 1) when walking down the stairs with Bush thoroughly angry with not getting his way (see Freud on this one) on t.v. Put-in pulled his hand in the direction of Bush and acted like he was pulling a gun trigger, 2) at the Olympics Put-in went up to the Leader of China and shocked Hew but, he got Hew's ear and Hew then smiled to the fqace of Put-in. Put-in acted like he had done something with the knowledge and approval of Hew. Did Put-in get a "gold?" I would say "plastic."
Back to Georgia and what is to happen in that area of the world. Let me add something that although Bush etc., et al did maybe procedurally invade Iraq with some misrepresentations what they knew and did was to bring out what they did know which was that the Islamic "bad" ones were like cancer ready to pounce on the world. Bush was right and wrong with what he did but, was fifty one percent right and 100% justified in his actions. It is like cancer. Iraq had it and it was going to spread rather than be controlled as Bush sought to do, and did. I know this from being a former USAF (with NATO Intelligence Officer. As for Georgia I know what did, is, and will take place in Georgia. No different than the USA Civil War. You just have to do what you have to do and most important get things "right."

Donald I. Kelly
Tel., etc., all on www.mbfusa.com
Nah, we all know that your time and constraints are about equal to when one calls a company and the machine says "this call may be monitored for training purposes." What BS! (emphasis added). More for management and the insurance company handling claims, etc.


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