Biden: The abortion story reappears

Posted: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:27 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Joe Biden

The New York Times delves into the debate among Catholics about whether pro-choice Catholic Dem leaders should be punished politically in the church. "A struggle within the church over how Catholic voters should think about abortion is once again flaring up just as political partisans prepare an all-out battle for the votes of Mass-going Catholics in swing-state towns like Scranton. The theological dispute is playing out in diocesan newspapers and weekly homilies, while the campaigns scramble to set up phone banks of nuns and private meetings with influential bishops.”

Biden has hired a lobbyist to look after his Senate re-election bid, which is taking place simultaneously with his VP run. "Lobbyist William Oldaker continues to represent the Delaware Democrat in his simultaneous bid for Senate re-election, serving as legal counsel just as he has for Biden's campaigns for the past 25 years. Oldaker is an election law attorney and partners with Biden's son Hunter at the Washington firm, Oldaker, Biden & Belair. He is also an appropriations lobbyist who represents lawyers, American Indians, and educational and health care institutions and who drew fire in 2005 for serving on numerous fundraising committees that donate to the lawmakers he lobbies."

Biden spokesman David Wade responds to the story, "I mean, my lord, news at 11:00 -- a former general counsel to the FEC, who has been an election lawyer to a former speaker of the House, to Sen. Ted Kennedy, and to Gen. Wes Clark, is still legal counsel to a campaign he's represented for 25 yrs. And, oh by the way, he doesn't lobby Joe Biden or his office. Mercy. Meanwhile John McCain's foreign policy is written by guys who lobby for foreign governments and his economic policy (and boy does it show) is transcribed by big corporate lobbyists."

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Comments

Once again, Catholic voters are missing the fundamental point: SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

Voting for government positions based mainly/solely on religious positions/beliefs flies in the face of the very founding principle of our government - that the government will endorse no religion, and will never act to the benefit of one faith over the other.

Trying to craft a "christianized" government that more or less echoes Christian sentiment is a betrayal of our own declaration of independence.

Joe - STL (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:35 AM)

http://twocanpete.blogspot.com/
The Republicans ran the White House, the Congress, and the Supreme Court for how many years and remind me again of exactly what they did about abortion? Oh yeah, next to nothing. That's what!

twocanpete (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:36 AM)

What_you_Selling (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:37 AM)

Sooooo??? I think you have the shoe on the wrong foot when you say he "hired" that man, sounds like he has been doing this job for a long time.
Just look at all the lobbyist working for McCain, he would not have a staff except for his lobbyist.
Let's hear some news about how to solve our horrible economic woes, folks.

GrammieJ, Pulaski, TN (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:37 AM)

Biden, is a lot of things, but he's no fool. He knows Obama is damaged goods and stands little chance of winning in November. Nothing like keeping your foot in the door right Joe? So when things go sour for Obama, you'll still have a job.

Clarence Thomas, Wash DC (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:38 AM)

The New York Times delves into the debate among Catholics about whether pro-choice Catholic Dem leaders should be punished politically in the church.

The Answer is yes

What_you_Selling (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:40 AM)

The New York Times delves into the debate among Catholics about whether pro-choice Catholic Dem leaders should be punished politically in the church.
********************************************************

What ever happened to going forth and serving your fellow man? Is this what People Of The Cloth sit around and worry about? Really?!

I would bet that there are impoverished families in your backyard that could use a hot meal and some clothing...

http://thepajamapundit.com/

the Pajama Pundit (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:41 AM)

It is really quite simple, you can't separate your political life from your personal life. Not on abortion. Biden, and Pelosi, have tried to so this, and it just doesn't work. If you believe something, then live it! If you believe in abortion, then you can't be a Catholic in good standing with the church.

Church Lady (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:41 AM)

What a hypocrite. I thought NOBODY on the Obama campaign could associate with lobbyists and here we have Biden hiring one! And, to top it off, Obama is paying for it! Didn't know you could give money from one campaign to another. And, when is the Obama camp going to get off the lie that McCainhas lobbyists working for him? They dont lobby anymore. And, isn't it interesting that the top three recipients of funds from Fannie and Freddie were Dodd, Obama and Kerry? Oh, but, Obama doesn't take "big money". BS. All this just shows me Obama is the sleazy, lying Chicago politician he says he wasn't.

hypocrisy in Obamaland (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:41 AM)

Yeah when the going gets tough the evangelical christian lunatic fringe breaks out the abortion distraction. They can't talk honestly about the real issue that matters, the economy, so they start whining about total nonsense like abortion.

Reminds me of my favorite bumper sticker "Jesus please save us from your followers"!

Time to talk about real issues that matter and not culture distractions that are irrelevant in the 21st Century!

Go Obama/Biden 08/12!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:42 AM)

Do what is best for the people Joe not the big AMA lobby

BJ, CA (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:43 AM)

I saw a headline on msnbc.com that the Catholic Church says Evolution is okay with the Pope. Time for the knuckle dragger crowd to wake up and smell the reality!

Go Obama/Biden 08/12!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:44 AM)

Juanita, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:44 AM)

OMG!!!

Lobbyists in the Obambi/Biden mix?

But Barack said he doesn't do that.

Biden's guy is partner with Biden's son?

James A. Johnson who lined HIS pockets at Fannie Mae & STILL advising Obambi.

Before the American voters buy anymore of Obambi's swill, PLEASE ask why are these people STILL involved, & how much can you believe this Chicago down & dirty ward politician.

Wake up America!

FannieMae/FreddieMac, NY (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:44 AM)

Thank you Mr. Wade. Sen. Biden is at the BOTTOM of the list of other senators in regards to wealth. Compare this to the wealth of McCain (even though he dumped his first wife in order to gain more wealth by marrying the bobble-headed Cindy), and it's easy to tell who's in the pocket of the lobbyists. Follow the money trail.

OBAMA/BIDEN, 2008!

KJ, Dallas, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:45 AM)

gotta bury what really matters with the emotional discharge that abortion brings to the table.

abortion will never see compromise because of the fundamentalist views on both sides. lets focus on things that affect our lives everyday; economy, foreign policy, energy, education, and health care. those are what is most important and what can be solved in the next president's term.

http://horneddevil.proboards98.com/index.cgi?board=iduspolitics

Tzalaran (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:45 AM)

Hah! I think I like David Wade! (And I certainly think that Sen. Biden should be able to keep someone who has run his campaigns --- and NOT been involved in any scandal or impropriety relating to the Senator, who himself has not been involved in any scandal or impropriety -- for 25 years.)

Elizabeth (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:46 AM)

The GOP doesn't like Biden because he's a regular Joe! He also believes that life begins at conception, as does the GOP Agenda. However, what he says that's different is that the government should tell other people what to believe. The right wants to rule all of us according to the Bible.

The Founding Fathers set our government up being seperate from the Church. And here the GOP is hard at work trying to punish people again for not following their church law.

Citizens for Truth (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:48 AM)

I LOVE Joe Biden. I think he is a GREAT VP candidate. Wesley Clark would have been the outside the beltway pick; but Biden GETS it.

Go, Joe!

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:49 AM)

Church Lady:

So, what you're saying is, the founding fathers had it all wrong when they crafted a government that was designed to leave all religious issues to the people only?

The inability to seperate one's religion from their governance was exactly the thing that drive the pilgrims to America in the first place.

Joe - STL (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:55 AM)

We must understand that the very people that display their very morals are guilty of displaying lies or racist and only they know the truth. I will explain...If the circumstances were different, if Mrs, Obama had a 17 year old daughter and she was pregnant, would the republicans and some Democrats look at the situation different and would the outcome be the same..I think not....and they say nothing of this boy's family who have been pushed into a forced family situation.....If Palin is so strong in leadership, why wasn't she able to manage the sexual education within her own home....and she wants to lead my country..I think NOT!!!

The Real Truth!!! (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:57 AM)

Catholic voters should look beyond the abortion issue when making up their minds in this election and should consider the issues and circumstances that personally affect them and who best can attend to those issues. The Catholic Church should stay out of politics and certainly should not be involved in "politically punishing" Pro-Choice Dems...perhaps the Church should focus on punishing its own pedophile priests (and the bishops and other leaders who covered for them) who have actually committed sins against God and the church and, by the way, broken the laws of this land.

Sharon W, Lawrenceville, NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:00 AM)

Bush has been in office for 8 years. All the while abortion has remained legal. The 'judge' thing is a hoax!
The republicans only use the argument at election time and then put it away until the next election where they pull it out of the closet, wave it and like tranced idiots the right-wing nuts blindly follow the argument to their own economic ruin.

I do not drink alcohol. It is legal. I do not smoke. It is legal. Don't believe in abortion, don't have one! Period!

4,155 soldiers are dead from the Iraq war alone, anybody care about their deaths?

Obama / Biden for sense and reason (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:04 AM)

involved in any scandal or impropriety relating to the Senator, who himself has not been involved in any scandal or impropriety -- for 25 years.) Elizabeth (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:46 AM)

Guess you forgbot about that plagarism thing that caused him to drop his presidential bid in 1988. And, guess you forgot about the bi-partisan debacle Joe caused with the nomination of Bork for Supreme Court. Your guy Joe is not perfect. Why don't you ask him about his $392 M in earmarks for this year only and why he won't release his entire earmark record?

mccain palin 08 (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:04 AM)

So in other words, it only matters if Biden takes Communion during an election year?

Sorry, but I'm a Catholic and this is embarrassing, in much the same way those "impartial" voter guides that get distributed at Catholic parishes all across the country are embarrassing.

Paul Miller, Woodbridge, VA (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:05 AM)

Biden is part of a team screeching about lobbyists but then he hires one. He says he's a catholic but supports abortion. That's a fake for you

Biden the fake (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:06 AM)

As a Catholic, I ask one simple question.

What would Jesus do?

Personally, I think Jesus would preach about the good in the world. Jesus would never be involved in politics, so why is the Catholic church?

Juanita, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:44 AM)

Things have the changed. The Democrats have modernized. Now it's 'What would Barack do?'.

Jeanna George (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:08 AM)

It's quite simple Joe. If you don't want to live to your Catholic faith, then don't be a Catholic.

The Pope (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:10 AM)

I think what happens is that sometimes the Catholic groups can't understand that a person can disagree with a policy without forcing their beliefs on other people. The fundamental difference between Catholics that vote Democrat and those that vote Republican is those that vote Republican tend to want more Catholic doctrine written into law while those that vote Democrat are happy to practice their own beliefs while allowing the law to be separate. Am I way off?

Biden's son Hunter ... resigned. I'd say that means they're not partners.

David Wade got it right. This is not news. I'm sure it will be the main graphic on some tripe site like Drudge, though.

http://www.rodneyhopper.com

Rodney Hopper, Waxahachie, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:10 AM)

I LOVE Joe Biden. I think he is a GREAT VP candidate. Wesley Clark would have been the outside the beltway pick; but Biden GETS it.

Go, Joe!
Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:49 AM)

=============

And the cheerleading squad has arrived.

Pat T, NY (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:11 AM)

As a Catholic, I ask one simple question.

What would Jesus do?

Personally, I think Jesus would preach about the good in the world. Jesus would never be involved in politics, so why is the Catholic Church?

Juanita, TX (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 9:44 AM)

******************************************************

You're right Juanita

Q: What is the first decision a supernatural entity (of your choice) puts before you?
A: The right to make a choice to believe or not.

If you are voting based on religious convictions, this little tidbit needs to factored in. It would seem selfish and counter productive to the basic belief that anyone whom was a true believer would force their personal fears, prejudices, concerns, strategies, etc on anyone else regardless of their beliefs.

Personally I don't want anybody in our government making ANY decisions for the people based on their personal spiritual beliefs. Common sense and morals should be the foundation for any agenda before our elected officials.

SuperD (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:15 AM)

Lets leave abortion out of this will you. As a woman, I am pro-choice. I do support a woman's right to choose. Enough said. It's the economy stupids!!!!
Joe Biden represents hard working americans. Enough said. 4 more years won't work. Enough said. We obviously need regulation. Enough said. John McCain parrots Obama. Enough said. We americans have gotten smarter having gone thru the last 8 years. Enough said.
Obama/Biden 08'

cindy, Las Vegas, Nv (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:16 AM)

Anti-abortion proponents should consider the fact that Republican operatives, like Karl Rove, simply push their emotional buttons to gain votes, but actually do nothing about this issue in practice. It's time for the pro-life crowd to quit being used in such a cynical manner and vote for a candidate, like Obama who'll back policies that support our poor and working class families so that abortions become less frequent.

Steve M (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:17 AM)

They can't talk honestly about the real issue that matters, the economy, so they start whining about total nonsense like abortion.
--------------------------------------------------
Abortion is not considered total nonsense to serious Catholics.

Get a Clue People (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:21 AM)

I am a Catholic.....a devout Catholic.

However, I believe that abortion is a personal issue and should NOT be legislated. God made us and gave us the ability to think and make decisions for ourselves.

A woman's right to choose is a matter between herself and her God.

OBAMA/BIDEN '08

Obama Is Best For America (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:22 AM)

Ok. I agree. Abortion talk is like arabs fighting jews. It will never stop, and there is no solution, so why waste breath over it as a deciding issue. But Sarah Palin says she will do all she can to help kids who made it past the abortion debates (i.e. kids with birth defects such as down syndrome that were not aborted) and were actually born. If that is true, then she has my vote. Because all the other posturing and promising on both sides has been vague in the past {both on actual promises made and general promises delivered}. Yes, I know Sarah Palin probably made that specific promise because her GOP handlers didn't get to her in time, but I think now that she has said it, the same GOP will make her stick to it, since the one thing the GOP is good at is planning ahead and rallying around their leaders. Republicans know that they have to become a bit liberal these days in order to win the fringe states. Democrats - always a bit behind in things like campaign strategy - think that becoming a bit conservative is blasphemy.

kim perkins (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:26 AM)

Biden has made it clear; he follows his Church's teaching on abortion. BUT, he will continue to support those whose consciences calls for more of a choice. There are many Catholics everywhere now who support choice, because they don't want to see it taken away from women. Let's see if they're in the swing states.

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:27 AM)

When I think about abortion, I think about two or three questions:

First,when does the fetus' right to life override a woman's right to govern her personal physicality?

Second, at what stage of development does the fetus' right to life override the mother's right to life?

And, third, does it make any difference if the sexual act that resulted in the pregnancy was without the woman's consent?

Finally, if your interpretation of God's law conflicts with the founder''s concept of Constitutional law, how should we as a society resolve those differences. Does it matter that religeous freedom was a cornerstone of American democracy at its founding?

I am not saying I have the answers, but if you acknowledge the legitimacy of the questions you must acknowledge the fact that sometimes our personal religeous convictions and the prionciples that govern our free society need to be kept distinct.

Mike,Texoma (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:28 AM)

"A struggle within the church over *how Catholic voters should think* about abortion . . . "

Let's clarify the meaning of this phrase, shall we?

"A struggle within the church over what Catholic voters ***ought to be told by Catholic 'leaders' about what they actually think*** about abortion . . ."

Doesn't that sound more "accurate", to use the word employed by Biden in his CNN interview which is part of "Biden Revealed"?

Does the "One True Church" claim to be an arbiter of "thought"? Is democracy fundamentally antithetical to any religion that teaches that some thoughts, and by extension, ideas, are sinful? Or is there no such thing as "freedom of internal dialogue, i.e., speech" protected by *any* constitution?

Remember the exchange in "Inherit The Wind"?

Matthew Harrison Brady: "I do not think about things I do not think about."
Henry Drummond: "Do you ever think about things that you *do* think about?"

E

Ed, Rochester NY (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:31 AM)

Now that they are getting hammered on the economy they'll push the divide and counquer issues again.

Jeff Cooper, Lancaster, Pa (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:35 AM)

Why does nobody talk about Catholic Republicans who support the death penalty?

Dan, Las Vegas (Sent Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:37 AM)

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