Foreign policy stretches

Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:14 PM by Carrie Dann

From NBC's Courtney Kube
Each of the candidates just stretched the truth on Iraq/Afghanistan.

Palin said that U.S. forces are at pre-surge levels.

The truth: The U.S. has more than 140,000 troops in Iraq (it fluctuates between 140,000 and 144,000 with deployments and overlaps). Pre-surge baseline is generally accepted as 132,000 to 134,000.

Palin is right that the U.S. now has the same number of brigade combat teams Iraq as before the surge (15 brigades), but there are more support forces there now than before the surge, counting engineers, logistics, intelligence and reconnaissance, transport, etc.

Biden said that the commanding general in Afghanistan said this week that a surge would not work in Afghanistan.

The truth: General David McKiernan said he needs more troops in Afghanistan "as quickly as possible." He has asked for 4 additional combat brigades and a small contingent of support forces (one brigade will deploy in January).

McKiernan said that the programs associated with the surge in Iraq would not work in Afghanistan, specifically something like the Sunni Awakening in Anbar would not apply to Afghanistan (because of a different and more complex tribal system in Afghanistan) and a program like the Sons of Iraq would not apply to Afghanistan.

McKiernan declined to use the word "surge," but ultimately he is asking for almost the same number of troops for Afghanistan and many of the same capabilities.

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Comments

Palin is showing she is the real deal tonight. She has a good command of the facts and principles that exist in the world.

Bob of Va (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:29 PM)

Not necessarily supporting Palin by any means, but it would seem to me that Biden's point is more of a fabrication or stretch than Palin's

Duffy, New York (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:29 PM)

But she is a Maverick, they are Mavericks, she can say peoples names wrong becsuse she is a Maverick.
Maverick, Maverick, Maverick.....AAAARRRGGGHHH

Mike, Winchester, VA (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:31 PM)

Sounds like Palin is improving

If I recall Biden voted against the firsit Iraq war, for for the second, said the Irags coould not form a coalition governement, could not run an election, and could not create a constitution.

Is Biden really a foreign policy expert or does he use the UN to solve everything

Palin and McCain should jump on this

Mark, ABQ, NM (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:33 PM)

Iraq started in 2003 who gives a damn about the Surge in 2006/2007 what about the lies of Bush, Cheney, and McCain that got us in that mess to start with?

100% agree with Obama/Biden, turn Iraq over to Iraq pit stop in Afganistan to destroy those that actually attacked the US on 9/11/2001.

$10B a Month... $80B Surplus in Iraq
3 Weeks Spending in Iran vs. nearly 7 Years to get those that attacked us on 9/11.

This isn't Noun...Verb....9/11 even after McCain ran the images he had the nerve to run at the GOP Convention...

MAC get Packed your being Retired to Arizona... Palin good luck in Alaskian Jail or at least with impeachment for Troopergate...

Jason - Indy (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:44 PM)

The woman talked in ridiculous platitudes, which demonstrates that yes, she can debate, but no, she isn't qualified to lead.

She would happily overturn Roe v. Wade too...so remember that when you go into the voting booth.

No more republicans!

Joe, MN (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:49 PM)

Palin needs to know the name of the generals she "quotes"

Sara Tennessee (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:51 PM)

Joe Biden said made it very clear that he is not going to change after all of his years in government. So...how is it possible that anyone would think that he could run on a ticket of "change"?

Kathy Cheeseman, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:52 PM)

As a military wife of 20 years with husband deployed to Iraq and Afganistan several times, I feel the need to stress to the American public that the focus has switched from one country to another depending on where the current danger is. It would be a perfect world if we could say Osama and Al-Queda was in a four block area, we know where they are and we can get them quickly, they are not. They move according to where we have our troops. My husband has "been there done that" and we appreicates a canidate that has been there too. We need to be in both places at the same time, is that possible NO. We can only make the decision based on our military Generals that are on the ground. I do not think that either OEF or OIF should be determined by a timetable decided by US government, but based on "On the ground reports" from people there. We need to finish what we started for the military members current, past, and future that are deployed there. We need to help the countries and in turn secure our future from terrorism attacks for our children.

Teresa Swanberg, Enterprise, AL (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:53 PM)

Joe Biden said made it very clear that he is not going to change after all of his years in government. So...how is it possible that anyone would think that he could run on a ticket of "change"?

Kathy Cheeseman, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:54 PM)

Did Palin have a Blackberry?????

W F Holsinger (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:56 PM)

Biden quoted General McKiernan on the PRINCIPLES of the surge, not the number of troops. Palin couldn't get the general's name right.

alphaman (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 10:58 PM)

Did we listen to the same debate? You are oversimplifying comments made by Joe Biden. He said that according to the General, the same strategy we used in Iraq would not work in Afghanistan. I guess this is why, with few exceptions, hearsay testimony is not allowed in court: it's inaccurate.

Amy Simpson, Middlesboro, KY (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:26 PM)

A surge always works in war--for a time. We have to find solutions to these issues without throwing more money and more American (and other) lives at the problem, meanwhile destroying our international reputation (if we have one left).

Steve in Seattle (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:28 PM)

Biden did not say that the commanding general in Afghanistan said this week that a surge would not work in Afghanistan.

He said that the commanding general in Afghanistan said this week that a surge like the one in Iraq would not work in Afghanistan.

Go back and put the correct quote in for Biden...

Eloise, Clearwater, FL (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:37 PM)

I'd say your headline's a stretch. Palin lies and Biden doesn't. “The word I don't use for Afghanistan is 'surge,' ” McKiernan emphasized, saying that what is required instead is a “sustained commitment” to a counterinsurgency effort that could last many more years and would ultimately require a political, not military, solution. You may disagree with the general, but to say Biden stretched the truth is a lie.

M. Bith, Chicago, IL (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:38 PM)

Huh?? The surge was not just an increase in numbers...it was the full program. As every senior military officer in Afghanistan has said - Anything resembling the Iraq surge will not work in Afghanistan. However, I'm not sure any thinking person believes there wouldn't be appropriate adjustments to an Afghanistan surge. Then again, this is the Bush administration so who knows what planning ever gets done there!

Also, isn't it a silly idea pointing out a 10K troop difference in Palin's assertion on a base of ~140K? Let's talk about worthwhile differences between the candidates.

One has shown worrisome judgment - unequivocally supported the war, considered the economy's fundamentals in good shape, supported deregulation and/or weaker enforcement, selected a VP candidate who is, well, an idiot. Enough said!

Col. J. A. McDonald (USAF, ret) (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:42 PM)

She Tried People, But Biden Clearly Did What He Was Suppose To. He Wiped Her Off The Stage. She Kept The Same Old Bush Montra... McCain-Palin MORE OF THE SAME

leslie, fort lauderdale Florida (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:00 AM)

Sarah Palin only read the headlines, because the International Herald Tribune headline yesterday said "US General Urges Troop Surge in Afghanistan". It never says "surge" within the article, but that must have been the headline she ready. Who knew? One of her vast varieties of newsmedia is the International Herald Tribune!

Lisa Pedersen, Torrance, CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:04 AM)

OK, but: Sarah Palin said that she wants the U.S. to put an embassy in JERUSALEM!! Is she certifiably insane?? This reveals an appalling depth of ignorance about the Middle East. For us to do this would trigger Armageddon, as this would be a desecration and sacrilege to both the Muslims and the orthodox Jews. It is fear of Western domination, left over from the Crusades for heaven's sake, that has produced the tremendous backlash in the Middle East that brought us the hostage crisis in Iran, the massacre of our Marines in Beirut, 9/11, and Al Queda, global jihad etc.. Why would we put our embassy in the most sensitive trigger point on the earth?? Thank you Sarah, you scare me to death. And by the way, my mother is Jewish.

Rachel Haymon (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:16 AM)

I thought Biden was arguing the definition of surge strategy here since he did recognize that the general said that more troops were needed, if I remember correctly. It is my impression that this story is just defining surge strategy different from Biden not that Biden was being untruthful.

orpheus (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:34 AM)

McPainlin finally answered a question & it is Questioable that she understood what she sai. memorized?

gerald (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:18 AM)

The fact remains that soldiers continue to die (thankfully fewer, but . . . ) and the (Bush/McCain) war continues to spend $10,000 billion monthly.

John Mehan, San Francisco, CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:31 AM)

So Palin pronounced some leaders name wrong. Review the debate and see how many times Biden stumbled with simple words, such as saying tank instead of thank, as he did a few times only to correct himself.

tman tampa, florida (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:36 AM)

Palin's bogus Sudan claim...

She was asked by Congress to support divestment while she was still Governor-Elect...It took her 16 months to support the legislation.
http://swingstateofmind.com/?p=663

Maassive (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:37 AM)

"McKiernan said that the programs associated with the surge in Iraq would not work in Afghanistan, specifically something like the Sunni Awakening in Anbar would not apply to Afghanistan"

He is pretty clear that a surge is not the answer. more troops have been called for by Obama as well. Not the same as a surge...different set of issues.

Jan, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:37 AM)

You may not like Bill, but sometimes you have to love him!
http://www.foxnews.com/video/index.html

schmeck, Orlando (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:38 AM)

Well, she missed a name. Obama called McCain...Tom, Jim, and ??? during the debate. Ooops.

Keith, San Jose, Calif. (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 1:45 AM)

When it boils down to facts, Palin doesn’t know what she is talking about. It’s obvious she can only debate what she was told because of her lack of knowledge and is not an effective debater on foreign policies.

WB Mark (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 8:37 AM)

Afghanistan and Iraq are different places. Palin said that we are not killing civilians there in Afghanistan. That is not true because Karzi has been on the American case for responding with dispropotionate force. There are some things that won't work in Afghanistan that worked in Iraq.

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 9:24 AM)

So, basically McKiernan did say that the principals of the surge in Iraq will not work in Afghanistan. I know what Joe Biden meant. What I believe he meant is that the only reason the surge has worked, if you want to call it that, is that without the Sunni Awakening and the Sons of Iraq, the surge would not have worked, and you would not be able to do the same thing in Afghanistan.

Bob, Lyons Oregon (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 9:33 AM)

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