Early thoughts: No train wreck

Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:36 PM by Domenico Montanaro

From NBC's Chuck Todd
As many said going in, this debate was about one person, Sarah Palin. And for those tuning in wondering if we'd see a train wreck between Palin's inexperience and Joe Biden's verbosity. Well, a train wreck it wasn't.

Video: Sen. Joe Biden and Gov. Sarah Palin clash over issues from the economy, to Iraq, to the role of the Vice President.

Palin started strong and proved to be a folksy cliché machine, which probably came across as extremely charming. She lit up the screen at times with her smile and occasional winks.

She proved extremely adept at avoiding questions or topics she didn't want to answer, which is the big difference in her fairly smooth performance tonight and her near-disastrous performances in those one-on-one interviews.

As for Biden, he had a senator's grasp of the facts, and I mean that as a compliment. But longtime Biden watchers could tell he was struggling with how to deal with her. He spent the first half of the debate on the defensive. It wasn't until the last half hour that Biden found his inner-Goldilocks and found the "just right" tone in dealing with Palin.

In fact, Biden ratcheting up his seriousness and emotion may have made Palin's folksiness seem tonally off for a little bit.

Bottom line: This debate was about Palin surviving and survive she did. Neither committed a major gaffe, and there were no moments that I think will get replayed over and over.

This debate may have a shelf life of about 24 hours, perhaps 48 hours and that's about it. Palin did well enough to prevent the negative storyline that developed all day regarding McCain's chances in November. Had Palin stumbled badly tonight, that news combined with the decision by the campaign to scale back its campaign in Michigan would have created a terrible storyline. Palin's solid performance on the style front prevented the worst outcome but did it move the needle in a positive direction for McCain? I don't think so.

At this point, the number of mega-game changing events for McCain are dwindling and since he's the candidate trailing, that's not a good sign.

The pressure is now on McCain next Tuesday to get his campaign back on track.

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Comments

From the Transcript:
IFILL: Governor, nuclear Pakistan, unstable Pakistan, nuclear Iran? Which is the greater threat?

PALIN: Both are extremely dangerous, of course. And as for who coined that central war on terror being in Iraq, it was the General Petraeus and al Qaeda, both leaders there and it's probably the only thing that they're ever going to agree on, but that it was a central war on terror is in Iraq. You don't have to believe me or John McCain on that. I would believe Petraeus and the leader of al Qaeda.

She'd believe the leader of al Qaeda?
Wow.
She really doesn't get it. She's not ready for prime time.

Believe the Enemy (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:47 PM)

She winked at me! SHE WINKED AT ME!!!! I need to take a shower. WHAT A PHONY!!!! OH MY GOD SHE WINKED AT ME!!!!!!!!!!! What a creepy thing to do!

Suzanne (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:49 PM)

I believe there was one Palin gaffe and that was when she said we can't leave Iraq until the Iraqi government is functioning and the Iraqi security forces can do there job, The gaffe? She then went on to say that our commanders on the ground will be the one's to determine when those two goals have been accomplished. We are the occupiers and we will tell the Iraqis when we will leave.

Palin did a decent job, but her talking points were too obvious. Biden, on the other hand, spoke from experience, not talking points. All in all, a good show.

Bruce Oregon (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:50 PM)

Most debates get equalized support on 'who won'. This one was clear. An old, unenergized Joe "my heart is not really in this" Biden vs. a spirited Sarah Palin. I was anxious about Palin. She mopped the floor with him.

Tom Sawyer, Jr., Columbia, MO (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:50 PM)

I disagree, Joe Biden won this debate hands down with his straight forwardness. Sarah Palin was all over the map with her replies and quite irresponsible with her non-answers. Senator Biden showed that being a single parent and dealing with tragedy was something that he lives with every day. He does not need to parade a disabled child onstage... It's in his broken heart.

John, Milford, CT (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:50 PM)

A train wreck did happen. It was Biden blathering on and on about everything he knows nothing about. Mr 1% in Iowa really had a bad night.

No Bull (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:50 PM)

I found Palin to be formulaic and shallow. She had her talking points well-remembered, but asked one question she was prone to clicking into a canned response, whether it applied to the question, or not. That was not talking to the American people, that was attempting to hornswoggle them into thinking she had a clue about it all, when one rather suspects that she doesn't. On October 10th (in eight days) we are going to learn what Sarah and Todd did with the Alaska State Government apparatus to try to get even with an ex-brother-in-law. One rather suspects that they broke a couple of laws in the process of playing backwoods vigilantes. We need that sort of neo-Cheney misdeed in government about as much as we need a Wall Street crash.

Arthur, San Francisco, CA (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:51 PM)

Hello....!!! did anyone hear a "Shout-Out" given? What about all the question she dodged, just not answer...and a heartbeat away. WoW!!

Lost in Translation (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:51 PM)

"Palin started strong and proved to be a folksy cliché machine, which probably came across as extremely charming."

No, not to me anyway. Palin came across as having memorized the talking points she had been given. Her refusal (inability?) to answer questions was shameful and her annoying habit of making quirky head bobs, winks, and clichés were annoying not endearing. At this time in American history, we need sound leadership and great minds not empty suits and more of the same.

ETSJ (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:51 PM)

Palin managed to avoid sending the McCain campaign into the sewer, but she did little else to further the cause. In other words, Palin did not "win." To quote Jerry Seinfeld, the person (Palin) that finishes in second place is merely "the greatest loser."

JohnWinNC (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:52 PM)

Well now if the liberals like NBC are telling us the debate will have a 24 hour shelf life, then Palin must have mopped the floor with ol'Joe.

Sweep It Under The Rug (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:55 PM)

I thought Palin failed miserably. I think the mainstream press is so elitist that they have no idea that middle class Americans are not stupid. We in fact do appreciate candidates answering the question asked. We appreciate depth of knowledge no just canned answers. We do not appreciate false charm and winks. She came off as totally un-presidential. I think you will find with polls of independent voters they were not swayed and are not confident that this woman can fix the economy, get us out of Iraq, and move this nation forward.

Cindy, Portland, OR (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:55 PM)

Biden-Palin debate is ever forgettable. Biden showed why he was Obama's pick. He knows the issues. Palin showed why McCain picked her. She is a distraction to the real issues we face in America.

Sean (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:56 PM)

She may have "survived," but our country needs much, much more than a VP who merely knows how to "survive." We need someone who is articulate and understands the complexities of the issues facing this country. I was NOT impressed with Sarah Palin's folksy cliches and "acharming" persona; the ability to light up a TV screen with smiles and occasional winks aren't enough for this voter.

Pat Marks, LaCrosse WI (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:58 PM)

Palin wasn't as horrible as we expected her to be, but what does that say. We expected her to be horrible. She doesn't have any political knowledge that is a solid basis for being a leader of the world. She is a BS artist. When she doesn't know the answer for a question she answers whatever she wants to. She's charming, but based on all of her gaffs I dont think that the congress will respect her if she were to become the VP.

TD, Atlanta, GA (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:58 PM)

In my opinion, one of the major reasons - if not THE major reason Sarah Palin did exceed expectations is that the format of the debate did not truly allow for follow up. There was never a real reason for Palin to look away from her cue cards. Her responses seemed very canned and "stumpy", but yes, folksy. I think that if Gwen Ifill had been allowed to follow up with subquestions, we could have seen the Sarah Palin of the Couric interviews.

Joel, Rochester, NY (Sent Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:59 PM)

Palin dutifully recited some of her talking points, and changed the subject or refused to answer questions when they didn't fit. For that she gets credit. But can anyone say with a straight face that she won the debate, that she passed the "commander in chief" test (in the event something happens to McCain)?

Biden demonstrated his vast policy knowledge as well as his heart. He also showed a masterful sense of diplomacy. He'd be a great VP.

Karen S, Arlington, VA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:00 AM)

Palin won... on Main Street, where this election will be decided.

Rex (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:01 AM)

According to all the polls i.e. CNN,MSNBC, politico, Biden won the debate so once again, so much for the pundits (especially Pat Buchannan). Palin's answer on giving the vice president more power was awful; ala Dick Cheney you suppose?

olivia (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:01 AM)

I agree with your assessment. I want a VP that is actually knowledgable, not needing to cram for this final without actually having taken the class! Total talking points from her, and not usually in response to the actual questions.

Shelleyt, Bozeman, Montana (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:01 AM)

Did her performance make anyone comfortable with the thought of her as President? Uh--No!

Liz (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:02 AM)

When talking about intervention in the Balkans, Senator Biden referred to Bosniaks. Does anyone know what those are?

John, Alexandria VA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:02 AM)

Yes, win on facts to Biden. Style, split. Bases will take their own side. With no gaffes, most of this will be lost, except for one moment that I think may have reached many men specifically.

Governor Palin was answering that as a mom she had an unique perspective she would bring to the job. Playing the gender card and motherhood in a political way to slight Biden. Joe took offense in a personal way. He choked up and reminded her that he lost a daughter and almost lost a son, and was a single dad, he damn well knows what it's like to be working class and have to do it on your own.

Not to disrespect the women, but there are many men that feel they aren't given the credit in raising their kids. There are many single men raising families. Many men are offended when they are slighted in their roles. Joe would have none of that and his passionate response connected with many working class dads out there.

Pat G. , Overland Park, KS (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:02 AM)

I thought she was "cute," but not very vice-presidential. Too cute, with her winks and big grins and looking right into the camera.

She is also very good at the political talent of talking in circles when she doesn't know the answer to a question. I can't recall one time when Joe Biden did not give a direct answer to Gwen's question, but there were many questions unanswered by Sarah Palin--or answered with gibberish and cliches. She may know the mechanics of how to debate, but she is sorely lacking in substantive knowledge of the subject.

One other thought--NOT ANOTHER LEADER WHO CAN'T PRONOUNCE "NUCLEAR"!!!!! It is NU-CLE-AR, not NUC-U-LAR!!!!

Gen Morrison (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:03 AM)

I am very skeptical of Palin, but I thought she did extremely well. In fact, I was really shocked by her performance. I still have significant doubts about her suitability as a VP, but I thought she handled herself exceedingly well and you failed to address that in your post.

Patrick Evanston (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:03 AM)

I am an independent and was uncommitted until tonight.. As I watched Palin I tried to imagine her in meetings with world leaders. What if she became President? Would she just repeat her memorized lines that had nothing to do with the topic being discussed?
I became terrified. They would laugh at her. Plus her folksy language made her look like a country bumpkin certainly not like a potential Head of State.

Jean (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:03 AM)

A charming cliche machine that lights up the screen!!?? A woman who winks and does the aw shucks?? But.. But...but she will have the nuclear codes! She can't answer the questions or not whatever she likes! This is not the local PTA! God help us.

PREED (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:03 AM)

Remember when actually answering the question posed was important in a debate? Joe Biden still does.

That woman is as presidential as my cat.

Brenda J in Atlanta (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:04 AM)

I agree, not much to put on SNL. It did confirm my feelings that she is all smile and little substance.

Pretty scarry for teh country if she gets a call at 3am....

Steve Bernal, Los Angeles, CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:05 AM)

All in all, I think John McCain made a great chioice for VP. She is an engaging public speaker and debater and I believe my values would be well represented should the McCain-Palin ticket win in November.

Nathan mills (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:05 AM)

MAIN STREET MEDIA FILTERING AND DEFINING WHAT SHE SAID STUPID DOESN'T NEED INTERPRETATION.....IT'S OBVIOUS

MARY GALLAGHER (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:08 AM)

Sarah did not do it.

She did not answer specific questions; she had an agenda, which was to talk about topics that she were COACHED to speak about. She appeared to be a student in a Toastmaster class; she did not appear professional; nor did she express herself in anyway that lead me to believe that she could ever be a heartbeat away from being the President of the United States nor is She ready to be Vice President.

She will do better in Alaska, serving as an Executive of the State, not the United States.

I want a VP who can talk to ALL people. She did not speak to me today.

JOYCE, NC (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:09 AM)

If there is any evidence about the extent to which Caribou Barbie was primed to memorize and recite answers, it was her response to Gwen Ifill's question of the "Achilles' heel" which clearly met Mrs. Palin with surprise. Caribou Barbie appeared not to know what this meant and babbled on about, well, nothing.

In all fairness, the word 'Achilles' is, in fact, 3 syllables, and a far cry from her folksy-but-most-illiterate vocabulary.

Dr. Andy Schrack (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:10 AM)

Since ol' Chuck already proclaimed the election over today, I wonder if anything could have happened to change his mind.

Jared A. Chambers
www.myownterms.com

Jared A. Chambers, Canton, GA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:11 AM)

No train wreck? Sarah Palin said that she wants the U.S. to put an embassy in JERUSALEM!! Is she certifiably insane?? This reveals an appalling depth of ignorance about the Middle East. For us to do this would trigger Armageddon, as this would be a desecration and sacrilege to both the Muslims and the orthodox Jews. It is fear of Western domination, left over from the Crusades for heaven's sake, that has produced the tremendous backlash in the Middle East that brought us the hostage crisis in Iran, the massacre of our Marines in Beirut, 9/11, and Al Queda, global jihad etc.. Why would we put our embassy in the most sensitive trigger point on the earth?? Thank you Sarah, you scare me to death. And by the way, my mother is Jewish.

Rachel Haymon (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:12 AM)

The criteria that she is being judge by says it all. "She didn't say anything stupid, so it was a good debate." How pathetic is that? That's not a win, that's survival. Truth is that she was skinned alive by Biden. He listened to the questions and gave thoughtful, relevant responses. She heard the questions, and then repeated something she was trained to say like the sports-caster that she is.

John, Cleveland, Ohio (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:14 AM)

I thought her accent got stronger and more fake as time passed. Ya betcha Ima gunna. PULEEZE give me a break.

nuanced (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:16 AM)

I agree that she sounded coherent, but expanding the powers of the vice-presidency, not a major gaffe? Oh,boy!

adyacent (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:17 AM)

My goodness! Two people who love their country and give each other credit for loving their country. Two people who, dispite their policy differences are able to be cordial to one another and debate the issues in a logical and respectful way. Now if the rest of the country could only do this, we might actually GET somewhere!

Paul, Tacoma WA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:18 AM)

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