Healthy debate over tax credits

Posted: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:32 AM by Carrie Dann
Filed Under: Joe Biden, Ads, Sarah Palin

From NBC's Carrie Dann
Team Obama is out with their post-debate ad, which uses Biden's "plan to nowhere" line about McCain's health care tax credit, which Biden says would be cancelled out by taxes on Americans' health care benefits.

The McCain camp, via spokesman Tucker Bounds, had this response to the Obama-Biden claim: "Oddly, instead of shying away from an outright lie told by Joe Biden last night, the Obama campaign appears willing to double-down on his reckless dishonestly. It’s a lie for the Obama campaign to say John McCain’s health care plan taxes health care, when the McCain plan clearly provides the equivalent tax break for every American."

It's correct that McCain's plan does provide the same tax credit for all purchasers regardless of income, and the Washington Post's Fact Checker says that Biden did "mischaracterize" the consequences of McCain's plan.

But the nonpartisan Urban Institute notes that "the credit is not adequate to make coverage affordable for many," especially low-income Americans or those with pricey health care needs.

During the same exchange used in the Obama ad, Palin called McCain's plan "budget neutral." Per the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, McCain's health care plan would actually increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over ten years, just shy of the $1.6 trillion price tag on Obama's.

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Comments

OBAMA/BIDEN '08/12

OBAMA/BIDEN give all of us making under $250K some real tax benefits and Seniors who only have 49K ZERO Taxes!!!! and we'll all still have health care!!!! and its paid for by the BIG CORPORATIONS!!! What a great idea !!!

A RABID REPUBLICAN FOR OBAMA!!!!

RD, ALEXANDRIA, VA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:36 AM)

This ad is right on the money -- OUR money. McCain will "double dip" from us with his so-called health care plan. A pittance of a tax credit that doesn't go to us--but to the insurance companies, and then taxing as income the cost of the policy--this would be a disgrace, not to mention putting many people into deeper economic peril. I am SO glad they are pounding this issue home -- it is very important to me and my family. Obama has a far superior health plan.

I suppose people like John McCain and his toadie Tucker Bounds don't have these kinds of issues in their lives. Would suck for the rest of us though!

DON'T LET THIS HAPPEN!

Vote Obama/Biden for our present AND our future!

PAMama4Obama (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:38 AM)

So Obama advocates deficit spending, and lots of it, to solve our problems? I mean, he's cutting taxes (or so he says) and is increasing spending. That all adds up to, Deficit Spending!

David Simpson, Tampa (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:38 AM)

Biden was brilliant last nite. Seeing the two candidates on stage it was impossible not to notice that only one of them is remotely close to qualified to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Even my die-hard GOP friends said she didn't make them anymore comfortable with the prospect of her as POTUS.

Biden rocks! (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:38 AM)

And any so called tax cuts Obama gives out will be gobbled up ten times over in fuel costs. Obama advocates 'alternative energies', but those energies are at least decades away from mass usage.

Experimental Energies Are Like No Energy At All (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:41 AM)

The McCain camp are ANGRY and in panic

sybil lee Forest Park (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:42 AM)

McCain has never shopped for health care, but seems pretty convinced that he understands the difficulties involved. Of course, he's also never been denied coverage for all of his pre-existing conditions. And he could afford health care even without insurance.

Just A Guy, Cincy, OH (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:43 AM)

Wait tell Social Security goes belly up. The trillion dollars our government will spend this very day? Multiple trillions of dollars will be needed to bail out that thirsty whale of a program tomorrow.

Write the Check America (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:43 AM)

"the credit is not adequate to make coverage affordable for many," and THAT is the crux of the problem. McCain's plan would give employers an easy out to drop their health care plans, not give employees enough money to buy their own, and make health care more expensive by moving large numbers of people from group health plans to individual plans.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:44 AM)

I just hope they use some kyjellie for the screwing we're going to get from the House today.

DK Peetes, MI (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:45 AM)

I find McCain's new ad more interesting.

They assert that Biden is not ready to lead - I think that puts the focus right back on Palin's inexperience.

What in the world is the McCain Camp doing? You do not attack the VP candidate - you go for the TOP of the ticked (like this Obama ad).

Mark Weller, Ohio (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:47 AM)

Sen. MCain and Gov. Palin say that they don't want bureaucrats deciding our health care -- but private insurers are BUREAUCRATS and it is the insurance company (whether through employer, government or private insurance) that decides. Under McCain-Palin, people could presumably shop around, or wealthy people could find plans that cover more, but there will always be bureaucrats.

formerly of NY (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:49 AM)

Yes McCain will tax healthcare. Fact. He will then provide a tax rebate break of @5,000. Fact. It is revenue neutral to the tax payer. Unknown and not an even distribution. Increased government involvement. Fact. The government will now have to collect the taxes, after establishing what they are, then send out rebate checks. All this costs and is not included in the financial equations. Also the cost inplications to companies is not included. More debate and clarity is needed on the issue.

Richard, Delmar, NY (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:49 AM)

What Tuckered Out does not tell you is that after the bomber taxes your health care ,that your employer pays, there won;t be much left and employers will have to make a choice,cut back on insurance(More co-pay for the employee)witch in turn will in the end cost you more for less.Or stop offering it all together.That sounds good pay more get less,just like at the gas station,gro store,and now health care,plus millions will be left out that don't have employee paid ins,they will not be able to afford this plan.See the bomber has been on the goverment payed plan his whole life,never paid a dime for coverage.Can we say (out of touch).

jesse St.Paul Minnesota (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:50 AM)

The McCain campaign cannot defend any of their own policies with facts. They would just rather use misleading statements about Obama's. How many times have we heard McCain say Obama will raise taxes when it's without a doubt, not true?

Derek, Parma, Ohio (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:52 AM)

Hello, people. Low income families have many options...it's those of us in the middle that are hurting. McCain's option is a plus for those in that sector!

Informed and Experienced (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:53 AM)

Listen, health care is going to cost money. We all want immediate service, and the best service for our money, so this stuff gets expensive. When it comes to paying for it though, everyone points their finger at someone else. If we want to regulate it and nationalize it, then it will be cheaper. You're going to wait forever to get service though, and that service isn't going to be the greatest anymore. Just so we're all on the same page here.

Walter Cummings, MN (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:54 AM)

Obama's 1.6 mill is over the same ten year period as McCain's 1.3 mil? I am not sure that is comparing apples to apples...or atleast leaving out some of the apples in a particular bunch!

Informed and Experienced (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:55 AM)

I think it's wise if we all just stopped listening to McCain and Palin. I know they provide lots of laughs, but really, it's the best thing for all of us.

Erik, Mechanicsburg, PA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:55 AM)

I'm not violent person, but I'd love to see that sniveling tucker bounds get his teeth knocked in so he can stop spewing stupidity

Indiana for anyone but McCain (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:57 AM)

America is in an economic crisis and Sarah Palin should be an insult to every intelligent woman around the world and country. Palin seemed as if she was interviewing for Playboy centerfold with all that winking and blowing kisses. THIS IS NOT A GAME!

The christian base should inform Palin of Proverbs 6:13, 10:10 and 16:30. Please read Proverbs and be informed. Palin is trouble for this country. PALIN = CHENEY.

Linda (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:58 AM)

If I am a person without health insurance for myself and my family, and the low average price of a family health care plan is 12,000 a year, and McCain gives me a 5,000 tax credit (that may or may not result in an actual 5,000 return after taxes) then how in the hell am I supposed to afford a 12,000 health care plan?

The health care system and health care insurance system are not unlike the current market crises. The market is broken (mainly due to the home lendning / foreclosure issue and the governement is now trying to bail the market out). But people better pay as much attention to the health care system as it to is running amonk like the cost of housing and like a runaway freight train. If this issue is not taken just as seriously as the market collapse and corrected just as quickly more and more people are not going to be able to afford health care (even those with insurance that now have high plan deductibles that employers are no longer willing to fund or carry).

The health care problem is just as big as the current market collapse. Yet McCain thinks a 5,000 tax credit will solve the problem. That's like telling Wall Street we will bail you out, we'll give you a 5,000 loan.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:59 AM)

McCain's token health care plan does not even begin to cover those who really need it, especially the 50 plus million uninsured. This is a Republican health care plan: minimal. Obama's plan is basically health care for all.

John Mehan, San Francisco, CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:59 AM)

Richard, Delmare NY: AARP has a comparison of the two tax plans.

AARP - just another liberal interest group with their grubby little hand out. Just like all liberal interest groups, they want someone else to pay for what they want.

Not Paying - Not Any More (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 11:59 AM)

Obama's plan is better because it leaves employer sponsored health care alone.I pay $872.annually now. I would pay atleast $4000.annual with the risk of cancellation under McCain for similiar coverage and his plan taxes me for benefits.No a good thing. McCain's plan in NOT GOOD for Americans.It's a con.

Kris K in RM,CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:00 PM)

This is how I look at it. A politician is a politician, no matter if they're Republican or Democrat. They're all cut from the same cloth in my opinion and will spin what they can so they can get into the White House. That being said, between the two evils I would rather see a Democrat in the White house this go around because A: They seem to get what's going on with me and my struggle to survive out here on main street better than the Republicans and 2: I don't feel comfortable giving the Republicans just one last chance to be in power for at least 4 more years to try and clean up this mess we're in; on the contrary, I fear they would make it much worse.

No, I am not ready to chance that. I will vote for the lesser of the two evils, the Democrats.

Up North Indie (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:01 PM)

http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/10/the_enigma_of_obama.html

This sounds like every leading democrat and a whole lot of our so called main stream media these days.

"Narcissists have normal, even superior, intellectual development while remaining emotionally and morally immature. Dealing with them can give you the sense of trying to have a reasonable discussion with a very clever six-year-old -- this is an age when normal children are grandiose and exhibitionistic, when they are very resistant to taking the blame for their own misbehavior, when they understand what the rules are (e.g., that lying, cheating, and stealing are prohibited) but are still trying to wriggle out of accepting those rules for themselves."

eeeeeeekkk LMAO (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:01 PM)

About health care, will the rich have health care? Yes.
Will the poor have health care after they pay for food,shelter,clothing,education,insurance (life,car),gasoline, taxes, and energy expenditures????????
If we pursue a strategy were 2% make it and the rest are on their own, I cannot see a winning future for America. Government is not the be all, end all solution, but it can be a friendly partner who clears a path for all who work hard and want desperately to make it on their own a reality.
America needs a strong middle class people to succeed if want to remain a 1st class country not a 3rd class country.

John Bohlman in Wis (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:02 PM)

This is just one article from the end of the Clinton era that brags about the new and exciting guidelines for Fannie/Freddie allowing everyone the chance to own a home...Check it out! I copied the first few paragraphs:

http://nreionline.com/mag/real_estate_fannie_mae_freddie/

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac guidelines change
Oct 1, 1999 12:00 PM, Barry Jacobs

HUD plans to raise housing goals for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Secretary Andrew Cuomo has announced plans to raise the affordable housing goals for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac by 19% over the next two years. The 1992 legislation revising the regulatory structure for the giant government-sponsored secondary market corporations authorized HUD to set specific targets for affordable housing finance. Under current regulations, at least 42% of the residential units financed by each corporation's mortgage purchases each year must be housing for low- and moderate-income families.

Informed and Experienced (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:02 PM)

I was wondering about that "budget neutral" claim. Thanks for debunking that one.

Sarah, State College, PA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:03 PM)

It appears to me that people are mistakenly
believing the $5000 tax credit on health care
that Mccain is pushing, will be money in their
pockets.
All taxes I have filed, the credits reduce the
total amount of income you are reporting which
gives you a smidgen of a tax break. Probably not
enough to pay one months premium
This is absolutely no help to those who cannot
afford health insurance.
Once again, the republicans have no clue as to
what middle class American is going through.

katiec Pekin, IL (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:04 PM)

If we had not seen the Gibson/Couric interviews
her debate performance would have been a joke we'd
all be scratching are heads wondering what we just heard.

Mitch Ca (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:04 PM)

As the two were debating last night on this McCain $5,000 credit, several people spoke up in the room to say things like "my employer covers $15,000---how can I afford to pay the rest?" Given what medicine manufacturers and insurance companies charge these days, $5,000 is a pittance, especially compared to what we'd be paying in deficit-dollars.

Class Warrior, D.C. (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:05 PM)

"Per the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, McCain's health care plan would actually increase the federal deficit by $1.3 trillion over ten years, just shy of the $1.6 trillion price tag on Obama's."
--I'm so confused. Does the McCain plan tax healthcare? Where does McCain get the money for $1.3 trillion dollars in tax credits? The fact check sites didn't even answer the most important/easiest to understand question of the response.

1) I'm surprised to see the MSM so stunned that Gov. Palin didn't act or sound like a bumbling boob last night. Clearly a debate is a much different format than a 1 on 1 sit-down interview. Clearly, she was poised to surpass expectations. Whomever thought she would fail like the Hindenburg was an idiot!

Also, I don't understand why the media is so happy about her completely avoiding topics and not answering questions. "Oh, you got us, good for you." THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE MAJOR PROBLEMS WITH THE MSM DURING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION. "Oh, you lied us into ... (insert Bush policy here)."
--Seriously, wtf? If I went into a job interview (which this was for Gov. Palin) and I refused to answer questions that are important to the job I am seeking. Only for the second highest office in the land could somebody get away with this. It makes me angry.

The fact that we have a pork-ladin bailout bill that is worse (in many aspects) than the original, that makes me angry too. But if they don't pass it, the leadership of this country has put so much pressure on the need that the legislature can't not pass it. That makes me angry too. And the fact that none of our leaders or the MSM (Morning Joe excluded) are talking about these issues ...

Nicholas: Minnesota (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:05 PM)

McCain's plan is further pandering to big business, at the expense of the worker. The clear goal is to eliminate health care as a common employee benefit, and shift the burden to the individual. The result will be an huge increase in the number of unisured, and the resulting burden will fall on those who are insured (in the form of increased insurance premiums) and state, local and federal goivernment, as the taxpayer pays the cost of treating the uninsured at the most expensive level of care: The emergency room and hospital. McCain and Palin's purported concern for the middle class is a transparent fiction.

Mark, San Bernardino, , CA (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:06 PM)

Voters appreciate it when the news media uses fact check and other tools to give accurate information. You are to voters safety net when it comes to accuracy. Compliment to Chris Matthews for his work last night. Dumb dots to Pat Buchanan for supporting Palin when she ducked about half the questions.

Troopergate will be back in about a week. Lets keep the facts in front of the voters on this issue too.

Ron Indiana (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:06 PM)

It's not fair to call it a tax on health care when you clearly get an equivalent tax break....politcal speak for 'you ain't getting nothing from this plan at best---at worst, we're taxing your health care!'

Sue, bloomington, IN (Sent Friday, October 03, 2008 12:07 PM)

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