ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



A crazy, compressed season

Posted: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:07 AM by firstread

From NBC's Chuck Todd

Believe it or not, after some 40 debates, the 2008 presidential debate season has come to a close. Remarkably, the country is only getting three debates for the general election, while they were treated to over 35 for the primaries.

This is a point that I don't think we tired members of the press emphasize enough, but what does it say about our presidential election system that we spent 15 months on the primaries and approximately 75 days for the general (conventions to Election Day)? Here we are at one of the most critical junctures in American history and we're cramming six months of a general election into six weeks? Crazy.

Now, as for the debate, supporters of McCain feel great and supporters of Obama feel relieved. Translation: McCain was aggressive and Obama didn't commit any major mistakes.

I don't think McCain accomplished the major goal of disqualifying Obama as president while also not raising his negatives. He was certainly aggressive, and many a supporter was probably heartened by some of his relentless hits. But did he make any gains with the middle?

Time and again Wednesday, Obama went out of his way to find a center-right watch word or phrase (tax cuts, life, responsibility, charter schools, tort reform) to defend himself or make a point. McCain spent a lot of time talking to his current supporters, I didn't hear him making a move to the middle on many issues. It's as if both candidates were trying to win Indiana or West Virginia tonight, that's not good for McCain.

And the tax conversation may be one of the bigger misreads of this debate season. Taxes and spending are way down the list of issue importance in current polls. Sure, McCain's on the right side of the issue, it's just not a priority with voters right now and I think some may struggle connecting taxes to the current economic problems, particularly since taxes are relatively low.

The best hit tonight for McCain was his introduction to the country of "Joe the plumber." McCain mentioned him no fewer than 20 times and certainly guaranteed a day 2 storyline that's controlled by his campaign since many in the media will be seeking out "Joe" for his debate take.

For a campaign that strives to win a news cycle, I'm guessing the McCain campaign will be pleased tomorrow.

As for the big pic, it's hard to see how this debate changed the trajectory of this race. It's now clear, for posterity, that Obama won the debate season. McCain won the convention season and that got him in the game, but the combination of the massive economic downturn with the debates has put McCain in as deep of a hole as any nominee has been this late in the process since Bob Dole. The map continues to look more favorable to Obama than McCain. But it's now in the hands of the voters. There's not much more information left to learn.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Why do you say McCain on the right side of the tax issue?  Both of them will be cutting taxes about the same amount (McCain a little more) but in McCain's plan most of the money goes to people/non-people (corporations) that are not "us".
Opening:
Here we are at one of the most critical junctures in American history and we're cramming six months of a general election into six weeks? Crazy.

Closer: There's not much more information left to learn.

I think you answered your own question there, Chuck.  We spend a lot of time narrowing it down to 2 candidates, and then we choose between the two.   "There's not much more information to learn" is your closer, so why are you puzzled and bemoaning that we don't spend another year or so learning nothing?  Crazy!  
"but what does it say about our presidential election system that we spent 15 months on the primaries and approximately 75 days for the general (conventions to Election Day)?"

It shows that our primaries are waaaaay too long!
For God's sake, don't these pundits and "experts" like Todd look at their own websites? E-vote counts on both MSNBC and CNN websites were showing that Obama beat McCain, 85% to 13% as of midnight EST. Yet Todd and others, who should look at their own websites, kept talking about how close this debate was. Duh. Maybe for you, but not for the American voters who, happily, are apparently much better at seeing the obvious.
There actually ARE issues more important that money. People are more than just an income/benefits spread-sheet. What's in a person's pocket just ISN'T so important as what's in his/her heart and mind!!! Or have we really become so base as to believe that ONLY the state of economy is important? Mass vote registration fraud is NOT a distraction. A pledge to take public funding, that turns into a cynical LIE is NOT a distraction. A relationship with a professor of education who just LAST YEAR spoke publicly in VENEZUELA about the use of public education to overthrow capitalist society is NOT a distraction. What good does even the best economic proposal do, when a nation truly comes to believe that ethics and honour are mere distractions?  
mccain is irrelevant
Yeah . . . McCain had some fire under him but as you say, the only ones who enjoyed it was his base.

I don't believe McCain swayed any undecideds, independents, or anyone else who are voting/leaning toward Obama.

As usual, Obama was cool, calm, and responded in a reasoning, even tone, even smiling when McCain attacked him.

Obama shows he has the temperament to be President. McCain only showed his angry old man side that will not garner much sympathy.

Obama by 8 points for the President!
Good Morning.  I listen to the debates last night and was highly impressed with how Senator Obama remained cool and presidential like under fire.  He was under a flurry of attacks and a last ditch effort by Senator McCain to cast doubt on who Senator Obama is.  Senator McCain looked beaten,defeated and not someone that I would want to see TRYING to run our Country.  I have just retired from the US Air Force and truly I do not want to see another 4 more years of a George Bush clone.  Senator McCain stated last night to Senator Obama "he is not President Bush."  You could have fooled me, he talk like him politically, and he voted with him 90% of the time. I have learned if you walk like a duck and talk like a duck, well.  God Bless our next President, Barack Obama!
"Forty-some" debates. That's more than two per month, even if you start counting from the early days when candidates were just announcing their candidacy.

And John McCain wanted 10 more? And because he didn't get what he wants... that's why he says he launched all those negative attacks?

Anyone else getting a mental picture of a kid throwing a tantrum in a supermarket check-out line?
I just like to add to the Joe the plumber debate. I'm happy for him, but FOR A SERVICE MEMBER WHO PUTS THEIR LIFE ON THE LINE EVERDAY, I DON'T MAKE CLOSE TO TO WHAT HE MAKES...And that says to me and should say to the country something is truely wrong with the tax code.
This Just In:  Joe "the alleged plumber" is the son-in-law of Keating of the Keating Five.  This guy is a fake and a plant by the sorry McCain campaign.  Is anyone surprised????  NO!

OBAMA/BIDEN, 2008!
I think the one thing people saw in these debates was that Obama has a strong grasp of his issues and is able to present them in a clear, easy to understand, way. He speaks like both an expert and a leader.
McCain is all over the place, and often has trouble stringing a sentence together.
If I were to pick someone to represent the USA on the world stage, I would want that person to possess all the qualities Obama has, and none of the ones that McCain has.
Who asked for a maverick anyway ???
While there is something to like about McCain's feistiness, unfortunately for him, he comes across as an angry man who might just invade rather than talk, fire people rather than work to change or improve the system, and make important decisions based short-sighted gains (Fey-Palin).  Obama was “on defense,” but not “defensive” and, while many would have liked to see him punch back, hard, and knock out his opponent, he remained as we’ve come to expect, calm, methodical, and clear-headed.  What does this country need now?  What do you need now?  The polls show it.
Obama should emphasize that taxes are on NET income. After Joe the plumber pays his employees and his business expenses, I doubt he'll see a $250K income. If he does, he should be taxed at a higher rate than me, living on my pension.
Obama Wins!

Joe the Who?
America needs a big change and I feel Obama can do it though it won't be easy with all that needs attention and fixing, McCain looked like he was out of place and angry, with his temper, I wouldn't let him near a button to start a war, like Bush together they are not fit to be President. With the soilders having to go through this back door draft and McCain wanting to stay in Iraq I feel so sorry for them and McCain pretends to care about third graders what a laugh, think of all the chirldren who won't have a Mom of Dad because of this unjust war and the horrifying lose of so many Iraqis what a great lose all around and all our wounded, physically and mentally.
We need a big change ASAP
I did think Obama won the debate. I was getting so tired of McCain negative attacks last night and acting so angry. It was a real turn off. Although, he fought harder,and I'll give him credit on his, "I'm not George Bush line... McCain is worse than Bush.
I completely disagree with you on Obama. I felt he took on McCain's attacks and fired back. McCain looked angry and sarcastic. Someone with a reasonable temperment and who is thoughtful is what is needed now and John McCain is neither.McCain is going to freeze all spending and also increase funding and lower taxes and balance the budget. Sorry, I didn't just fall of the Turnip truck.
It takes a lot longer to clean up a mess than it does to create one.

Assuming both candidates genuinely wish to bring America into a new direction and "clean up" Washington, I don't see much "change" in the next 4-8 years.

People want instant results these days, and no matter who wins, something tells me everyone will be less than satisfied in the years to come.  
i don't see how anyone thinks McCain won.  he was more aggressive, but he still wasn't speaking to the independents. he wasn't promoting his policies.  instead, he spent most of his time trying to discredit Obama by referencing William Ayers, ACORN and the comments made by John Lewis.  he needed to convince the independents that his policies were the best for the country and instead he was trying to convince the democrats that we were voting for the wrong man and that was futile.
The debate format allowed McCain to run out the clock, but Obama still brought out enough of the facts and consistently corrected McCain. The truth was on Obama’s side. 4 debates, 4 wins for Obama-Biden.
McCain is on the right side of the tax issue? Gee, Chuck, I wonder how much you make a year...
Version II (sorry VI was too long and opinionated)

I came into the primaries liking John McCain - no more, no less than Barack Obama. Even after many policy ideas and choices I disagreed with, I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt - and have (I believe)forgiven him much. But between the last 2 weeks of negative campaigning and passing up his chance to redeem himself in the last debate, I've given up completely on him. As I think, he's given up on us - independent voters.

Thus, the winner of the debate Bob Scheifer - the best moderator so far - he let them speak and even goaded them to say what they said they were going to say. Good man. Gwen Ifel tried so hard to not take sides that she didn't hold anyone to anything. Tom Brokaw was a bully, interfered too much - and as for the 1st debate? I can't even remember - an eternity ago.

The loser of the debates - from those I heard interviewed - the undecided. Reminded me of a jury selection where people don't tell the truth, to be chosen to stay on. As the Daily Show put it - attention seekers. I think they were already in camps, but wanted their 15 minutes to voice their opinions. I didn't find any of them believable - not to be trusted.

If the Obama camp asked me I'd say - just consider all the undecided for McCain - then go from there.
Let me get this straight.  McCain's representative of working class America, Joe the plumber, is upset because under Obama his taxes would go up slightly on his income of over $250,000?  I'm a doctor, and I don't make anywhere close to $250,000.  My grandmother was right.  I should have been a plumber.
What stuck a chord for me?  McCain seemed like he had just taken some ADD medication.  He was nervous, jumpy, and yes, erratic.  Kind of scary if you think he wants to be the president.
The American people are NOT buying into McCain's lies and smears. Sure he was "aggressive" but again it was LIES and SMEARS that have been factchecked and PROVEN FALSE! His running mate hasn't helped him either. We are SICK of her and see through her charade! Joe the plumber is NOT undecided - he's in the bag for McCain!
As a democrat and Obama supporter, it pains me to say you're wrong, Chuck.  He found a way last night to not only talk to his supporters, but to paint Obama as someone dangerous - or who at least appears dangerous to his base.  But he also found the one way to show everyday Americans who are uncertain of their pick this year why they should vote for him.  How?

He put an everyday face on it.

Joe the plummer may in fact turn this election around.  He will be taxed more becuase he's "rich".  This man who worked hard to get where he is, who lives in a modest home with a basketball goal in the driveway, this guy is everyone's every man.  That means the spin will have a face that their coming after me, they'll come after your too.

We've talked about scare tactics before, but this is one that will hit home.  And as it's a true scare tactic, there's nothing Obama can do about it.

Ladies and gentlemen, meet the new face of the McCain campaign.
I'm glad this was the final debate. As much as I love politics, I'm getting burned out and tired of hearing the same catch phrases over and over again. Although Obama touched on it a few times, I feel there was no real discussion on college tuition, one of my top issues. They spend so much time attacking each other, that to me it didnt feel like a domestic policy debate. It was a "who is going to increase your taxes more" debate. But overall, I think McCain seemed angry most of the time while Obama seemed composed and that says a lot about their characters and their future abilities to handle tough decisions.
A sweep. 4 debates, 4 wins for Obama-Biden.
McCain although a true American hero and has America's best interest at heart, comes across as a bitter man.  Another "my way or the highway" president is going to be an absolute disaster for our country at this stage in the game.  The debate last night underscored for me.
What in the world was McCain talking about when he proposed to eliminate the certification requirements for members of the military who want to go into teaching?!! As a parent and former teacher myself, I was shocked.
Maybe you can answer a question... it is not a big election-changer, but something that struck me. Both John McCain and Barak Obama mentioned special needs children, specifically those dealing with autism, as an issue, implying that Sarah Palin was dealing with this. I thought her child had Down's Syndrome. Is this the same as autism? I'm not saying that any of them are not sympathetic to all children's needs, but if I'm right it made Senator McCain, especially, look out of touch. Overall, the debate was interesting and I think Obama is looking presidential and McCain is looking desperate and angry. McCain repeatedly complimented Obama on his eloquence as if that was a bad or suspicious thing. Could he be jealous?
I watched the all 3 presidential debates and how do you think Sentator Obama is going to get his health plan into action ....higher taxes! as for Sentator McCain's television ads being 100 % negative  WRONG Senator Obama came out with the FIRST negative television ad.... Sentator has never aplogized for anything .....where as Sentator McCain  has repeatedly apologized on different issues .
Chuck:
You ask what it says about our system?  It says that the primary system is horribly broken.  Every autonomous state "wants its voice heard."  Great.  I'm thrilled...but when we have 49 debates in the course of a year and a half?  Gimme a break.

Regional primaries are the answer.  C'mon...if the BCS can come up with a playoff system that (mostly) works, so can the parties.

And the presidential debates?  Arf.  They were nothing more than a series of rote-repeated talking points.  If this is the best that Gibson, Brokaw and Schieffer can do, then give me a tag team hosting duo of O'Reilly and Olbermann.  At least those two will insist that the candidates get past the pablum, and will not hesitate to call them on nonsense.

We need serious, specific answers to the questions that are asked; these are serious times.  And we just didn't get the specifics we needed...from either guy. (Exhibit "A":  "Which of your proposals will you have to scale back or cut, given the economic conditions?"

Ah, well...we get the government we deserve.
McCain has had three debates with Obama now and he's coming across as a "Grumpy Old Man". I think we need to stop blaming his campaign, and the economy for the mistakes McCain is making he is ruining his own campaign. So much for the fighter. The more he tries to make Obama look un-presidential the more presidential he looks.  
This debate was hyped and dubbed as a "take the gloves off" debate.  I think it failed the people making their decision.  Barry Obama at least responded, for the most part, to the actual question asked.  John McCain used the question to spout his "talking point" rhetoric.  This is a most serious time for the nation...We deserved a more detailed and on point discussion of how these two candidates would deal with the very issues facing them on day one.  We have become a "gotcha" audience, influenced and exacerbated by the media, to the "reality" type "Simpsons Level" intellect. This does both the candidates and the nation a diservice.
obama killed mccain last night, but i got to give it to mccain he did a better job than the last debates;
it was not enough to stop obama!!
Joe the plumber !!! Please, give me a break.I have a small business and I do not make $250,000.00 a year.This guy works 15 yrs.,has an opertunity to buy a business that will earn him 250K a year and does not want to pay 3 percent more in taxes! How greedy can you get???
If I understand correctly, the plumber is objecting to raising the marginal rate from 36% to 39% for a tax bracket that he is not in. Assuming a 20% down payment, to buy the  business he describes should require about a $2,000,000 loan. Lots of luck, Joe. Hey, Joe, who is your banker?
I'm the father of a 14 year old daughter with Down syndrome (of whom my family is incredibly proud!, so my wife and I are well aware of issues affecting "special needs families." Was it just us, or did it seem like McCain thinks Sarah Palin's child has autism and not Down syndrome?
A simple question -- Do we want a President who can barely contain his emotions when challenged, or a President who can thoughtfully and calmly weigh the challenge and respond accordingly?  McCain proved once again his volatility under fire.  I was nervous just watching his face whenever Obama spoke.

Dawn
Chuck
Without a doubt Barack Obama did better with the debate and "tried" to tell voters what they wanted
to hear. As usual, it was false accusations from
Mccain.
Was disturbed about how much talking time Mccain
got. Clearly much more than Obama. Would like for
someone to give us total minutes of each.
I have one question.  Where is McCain's Flag Lapel Pin?  No one seems to care abouth the Flag Lapel Pin anymore.  Obama had one on!
Chuck, I usually agree with you for the most part but vehemently disagree that McCain won the convention season.

His convention was angry and extremely negative and Sarah Palin was an embarrassment to women, which it only took a couple of weeks for most of the rest of the country to figure out. Everyone else talked trash, including McCain. What we don't need in 2008.

Obama's convention was positive and only negative when it was appropriate. What we need in 2008.

McCain's negativity is extremely inappropriate given the current situation and he started that negativity with his convention. Sure Obama's been negative, but not nearly as personal. McCain has been erratic and lurching from one solution or plan to another. Nowehere in the dictionary are those words defined as old. That's the media spin. On the other hand, McCain, himslf or his surrogates who speak on his behalf, have passionately questioned Obama's patriotism, his motives and his beliefs. The results of which have festered into pretty dispicable behavior at McCain events and there is no excuse for that. It is just wrong on every level.

McCain's biggest problem is his inability to contain his contempt and anger. Easily contained and kept as secret as possible in Washington, on a national stage you can't miss it.
McCain is out of touch with America.
After the selection of Gov. Palin as VP candidate, in my opinion, the rest of McCain's campaign is moot.  He could promise me a fat WallStreet-like check/tax-cut, and I still could not vote for his proposed administration. I mean really, how is he going to run a complex country like ours when he cannot even make a REASONABLE VP choice.
I do believe if one belongs to the Right they come with their own set of listening devices where the facts as they stand are gleaning out leaving only those untruths that they believe and want the American public to believe.  
We don't need to worry about Joe the plumber, he is going to be rich after this.
McCain came across as a grumpy old man.  His endless referrals to "Joe the plumber" and his pouting about the nasty things someone not connected with the Obama campaign said about him remind me of my father-in-law who had Alzheimers'
The average American woman cannot afford even one dress that Cindy McCain seems to have in abundance. She and her husband know nothing about the economy and are totally out of touch with the average American.  Obama has what it takes to be POTUS and McCain is looking more sorry every day.  He is too old and has changed his position so many times I don't see how anybody could seriously consider voting the McCain/Palin ticket.


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1554177

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google