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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



$150,000 vs. $250,000

Posted: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 11:33 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: ,

From NBC's Mark Murray and NBC/NJ's Mike Memoli
The McCain campaign is jumping all over Biden's interview yesterday with a Scranton TV affiliate, in which Biden said that people making under $150,000 per year would get a tax cut under Obama's tax plan.

McCain even mentioned it during his speech today in Pennsylvania, noting all the different numbers Obama and his campaign are citing on the tax issue. “Sen. Obama has made a lot of promises," the Arizona senator said in remarks his campaign passed around to reporters. "First, he said people making less than 250,000 dollars would benefit from his plan. Then this weekend, he announced in an ad that if you're a family making less than 200,000 dollars you'll benefit. But yesterday, right here in Pennsylvania, Sen, Biden said tax relief should only go to 'middle class people -- people making under 150,000 dollars a year.' It's interesting how their definition of rich has a way of creeping down. At this rate, it won't be long before Senator Obama is right back to his vote that Americans making just 42,000 dollars a year should get a tax increase. We can't let that happen.”

Video: John McCain slams Barack Obama's plans to "spread the wealth," raise taxes and limit opportunities rather than create new wealth for Americans, and make everyone successful.

Biden aides say his comments were actually consistent with Obama's tax plan -- people under $150,000 get a cut, and people making up to $250,000 stay the same.

Indeed, here's what Obama said at the Saddleback forum in August: "What I can say is under the approach I'm taking, if you make $150,000 or less, you will see a tax cut. If you're making $250,000 a year or more, you're going to see a modest increase." ***CLARIFICATION *** The Obama campaign tells First Read that this is how Obama's plan breaks down: People making less than $250,000 will not see their taxes increase, and people making less than $200,000 will receive some type of tax cut. And all of this is essentially reflected in the Tax Policy Center stats below.

*** UPDATE *** An Obama aide points out to First Read that the $150,000 figure Biden was citing was simply an example of what someone making that amount would get under Obama's tax plan. Indeed, Biden's $150,000 remark came after he referred to someone making $1.4 million.

Per the Tax Policy Center, here is how Obama's tax plan breaks down for individuals:
$0-$18,891 = $567 tax cut
$18,982-$37,595 = $892 tax cut
$37,596-$66,354 = $1,118 tax cut
$66,355-$111,645 = $1,264 tax cut
$111,646-$160,972 = $2,135 tax cut
$160,973-$226,918 = $2,796 tax cut
$226,919-$603,402 = $121 tax increase
$603,403-$2.87 million = $93,709 tax increase
$2.87 million-plus = $542,882 tax increase

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Comments

I wonder if giving up all intellectual honesty bothers McCain? I hope so. I'd hate to think I misjudged him all these years!
Waaaaa Waaaaa Waaaaaa.  Who cares what a fake like the make beweeve mavwack has to say.  Cindy better keep up her looks after this election is over.  Johnnie's not going to be happy with his surroundings and he's known to wander.

Missourians who haven't read The Make Believe Maverick should.  It's on Rolling Stone online...the magazine came out several days ago.
Um, all the Obama posters seem to think he promised tax cuts to those making under $250,000.  In fact, I do believe that I have heard him say it himself numerous times, and I also recall reading it on his website.

We'll be at $42,000 any day now.  REmember the Clinton middle class tax cut?

However, I expect to read outraged posts from Obama land insisting that they never said the income level was $250,000; they understood it from the beginning; those who think this is a 'change' are haters and racists; the sky is green, the grass is blue. . .
Question:  Does Sen McCain really believe Obama wants to raise taxes on the middle class or does he just want to use misinformation to confuse voters?  
You may say that it doesnt matter, but, in my opinion, the answer says alot about who McCain is.
Sad to see this man not even understand basic economic/tax principles when it is spelled out for him.  To think of him running this country with the likes of "maverick" Palin sends cold shivers up my spine.  And they are not the kind of warm shivers I get when I hear Obama speak of a bright, enligthened future ahead for us.
Yawn.  Is this all they've got?

Anchorage Daily News endorsed Obama/Biden.
http://www.adn.com/opinion/story/567867.html

Obama/Biden '08
I see talk of Palins wardrobe is much more important then talking about the Obama and Ayers video showing those two lavishing praise on the guest of honor, Rashid Khalidi — former mouthpiece for master terrorist Yasser Arafat? I guess you have to keep the mindless drones of Obama supporters occupied with something, otherwise they get fidgety.
It's obvious that NBC needs a good hosing out. You guys tied in with al jazeera?
I happened to see Sen. McCain's speech and it made me very angry -- he went on and on about Barack the Redistributor.  If Sen. McCain does win the election, his administration can do without my federal tax dollars -- why not just keep it to better my own situation, pave my own street and lavish money on our children's school? Why not get a bigger, better ambulance for my town instead of worrying about other places?  Of course the answer is that it IS fair for us to pay federal taxes and for those taxes to provide things FAIRLY to the American people.   Some of the things that Sen. McCain derides as "earmarks" are actually grants that pay for salaries for pure research -- the public at large (and Sen. McCain) may not know ahead of time what areas of research turn out to be most beneficial, and private research money often has a limited field of interest.  So those pesky earmarks are in fact a necessary part of developing new avenues of research in a number of areas.  Sen. McCain wants to freeze spending on all but "necessary" items like defense -- if we have to cut spending, it has to include defense, which is a whopping and wasteful part of our budget, and we have to talk realistically about what our "defense" department can and should be doing around the world given our budget limitations.  I heard Sen. McCain's entire speech and I never once heard him say just what he would do to grow the economy other than rely on small business owners to do it for him.  Well, my final salvo there is that large corporations like Wal-Mart (Sarah Palin's favorite store) have outmuscled all the mom-and-pop small businesses in many parts of this country and people have NO choice about where to buy things.  Is Wal-Mart bad?  Too greedy? No amount of helping small business owners can right that balance...so what will you do, Sen. McCain?
Yes. Joe is correct, and has mistated nothing here! This message has been consistent since day one. Obviously "Insane McCain" and "Dizzy Diva" were not good math students at all. News flash for these two math experts! $150,000 is less than $250,000, and those numbers do not change. The simple math fact is this. Anyone making under $250,000 will get a tax break. That is fact! Do "Insane McCain," and "Dizzy Diva" know how to use a calculator?? They need to take a course in. "Numbers Are My Friend."  
And, under the MCCain plan... which ever one he decides on for that day will continue to bend over 95% of americans...

We normal Americans will MOST be better off with Obama's plan.

GO OBAMA/BIDEN '08/'12

A RABID REPUBLICAN VIETNAM-ERA VET FAT OLD PREJUDICED WHITE GUY NOW FOR OBAMA/BIDEN
Gee whiz, $150,000 is chump change.  I know Hockey Moms who spend that much on clothes just to fit in with Joe Six Pack who makes way more than that in his plumbing business.  

McCain thinks you have to make over $5,000,000 a year to be rich, so Cindy was rich last year ($6 mil), but didn't make the cut this year (only $4 mil)!  Maybe he'll dump her for a richer mistress - especially if she is stricken with an illness.  Straight talk from the RV now that the Keating jet is no longer available!  Maybe he can borrow the jet Palin sold on ebay.  I'm sure the "pal" she actually sold it to would be willing to do the kind of favor Repubs are known to favor - you betcha, wink, wink, big grin.
Once again, the Repugs show their inability to understand detail and nuance. This is completly consistant with what Obama has said in every statement. Here's a direct quote:  "If you make under $250,000 a year, you will not see your taxes increase by a single dime -- not your income tax, not your payroll taxes, not your capital gains taxes, no taxes. Because the last things we should do in this economy is raise taxes on the middle class."
Here's what I would submit:

If it was anyone other than Obama making statements like it was "good for everyone" to "spread the wealth around" or made comments concerning the "blind spot" of the founding fathers to neglect to include redistributive economics in the Constitution and/or that it was a failure of the Civil Rights Era for the courts to fail to address economic redistribution, there would be no chance whatsoever that he would be elected.

Ask questions, demand answers, wake up!  Complacency, laziness, and blind devotion to any particular leader or particular party are the enemies of democracy.
I don't even understand what you're posting here.  Are you saying that Joe Biden's comment yesterday and Barack Obama's comment back in June point to some hidden agenda to screw people making between 150,000 and 250,000 a year?  If that is your claim, then how about ask the campaign for a comment or check other sources?  This seems like haphazard journalism where the story is in the vagueness of facts, not in the facts themselves.
Voted early Obama/Biden. McRage/Palin are full of HOT AIR!
The McCain campaign is really getting stupid and desperate.  
So now McCain is criticizing the Obama camp for being consistent in its tax message?  This is very . . . odd.  I think it's time for McCain to rest.
Along with ALL the other Obama promises, here is another that is slowly slipping away, come Nov 4 that will no longer exist ! He'll come up with some lame excuse as to why. I'm telling everyone now... OBAMA plans to raise everyone's taxes ! He has lied everytime he opens his mouth ! That why this dem plans to vote for McCain.
What's Obama Reading ---- A book by a fellow Muslim titled get this......  The POST American World. Meaning after America is no more !!!!! Obama was photographed with this book in hand as he was boarding his plane last week. Now with his connection to terrorist Ayers, and his 20 yr love of Rev Wright, and now this book it make you wonder about him and his intentions for this country. And he still hasn't produced a Certified birth certificate. ????? This man is toooooooo shady and secretive to be a US Pres
McCain sounds like an annoying little brother (mine wasn't annoying) who jumps on a word and repeats it and repeats it and repeats it ("You said 'behind!!'")  

Please keep Obama and Biden away from microphones because they might say something like "taxing" or "spend" that McCain will pound them with (Barack says, "Gee, Joe, these last days of the campaign are taxing.  Who knew we'd spend so much time on the road!")

McCain:  "See - tax and spend; tax and spend!!"

I can't wait for John and Sarah to head off to a mall after Nov 4 and leave us alone.
McCain. Is. Grasping. At. Straws.
"If it were up to me, we'd fight one war after another.  I can't get enough of it." - John Mccain
i luv and respect Joe Biden,but could he take a vacation until after 11/4?
Insane McCain has lost his rocker. His campaign has become a disservice to the American people striving for peace amongst ourselves. He has begun reaching into the muck of our society and appealing to the bottom feeders that dwell there. It is shamefull at best and disgusting at least. John I hope and pray that you and your nit wit Diva running mate. Are done after next tuesday. You have to admit that a campaign that labeled it's opponant a Celebrity due to envy now refers to their own co-candidate as a DIVA. John are you that bitter because you did not have the appeal of Obama,Biden and now your own running mate Palin. Look if you wanted a running mate that made you look younger you should have picked Liberat.
What's incredible to me is that McCain still assumes that "middle class" people make $150,000 to $250,000. If only the top 1% of income is considered "rich," then wouldn't a person in the $150K - $250K range be considered upper class? For me, middle class people definitely make less than $150K (like me) and Biden's tax relief comment correctly refers to people like me.
Biden was correct.  If you make between 150 and 250 your taxes are going to stay the same.  Obama has NEVER said that ALL people making less than 250k will get a tax cut.  He has clearly stated that those making more than 250 will pay more.  It is written on Obamas website, it has been clarified on on numerous fact check sites.  McCain is once again trying to confuse voters and divide a country...now this is a fact!
>>>Indeed, here's what Obama said at the Saddleback forum in August: "What I can say is under the approach I'm taking, if you make $150,000 or less, you will see a tax cut. If you're making $250,000 a year or more, you're going to see a modest increase."

==========
I recall him saying the same thing during one of the debates.  The truth is Obama NEVER said that anyone making between $150k and $250k were getting an actual cut, he said simply that their taxes would not INCREASE.  The INCREASE would be for amounts above the $250k.

Ya got nothing, McCain.  You're all over the place, picking apart every little statement and hoping you'll get someone to believe you.  Give it up.

Obama/Biden '08!
http://jawillie.blog.com
Geez, this man and his sidekick makes more verbal mistakes than GWB and then have the audacity to jump on a mistake made by Biden and make it their platform.  Obviously, they have no real plan of their own.  I am just interested to see how Joe the not quite Plumber is going to feel when he is dropped when he is no longer needed in the "McCaint Come Up With A Plan of Our Own" Campaign.
Go away McCain..and your little dog (pit bull) too..leader of the BORROW and SPEND, BIG GOVERNMENT Republican Party.
Sounds like Obama still hasn't made up his mind.
*yawn*

Senator McCain, what are YOU proposing to do for America?

Our "wealth" dried up long ago, we are just trying to hold on to our ONE house, and our ONE job, so we can keep our ONE CHANCE at overpriced health insurance.

Until you figure out what you stand FOR Senator McCain, I don't wanna hear all this carping about Senator Obama's plans.

At least he has a plan. That is more than I can say for you and Sarah "Barracuda".

Fear is not a plan.

Distortion is not a plan.

Sarcasm is not a plan.

What is McCain/Palin proposing to do for America?
What is that smell? GOP desperation.
Is this family or individual?  $150K for a family in the North East is not wealthy.  So if your in the 150k - 250k range I assume you are not being counted in the 95%.
OOPS  Joe tell AMERICA really what's up with the tax plans   I know deep in your heart that you can't stand by and stick it us AMERICANS  Joe you have a voice and being censored on beliefs is really UNAMERICAN  
Is it that the McCain campaign doesn't understand Obama's tax policy, or is it that they think we are too stupid to understand it, so they can spin it any way they want to?  Either way, they lose.
McCranky should worry about his own crazy tax plan...tax breaks on the wealthy, hoping to filter down to us low life's - the middle class...who he knows nothing about - well maybe only what he reads in the paper!
It's intereting to note that the general message still remains that families earning under $250,000.00 will see a benefit from the tax plan - whether it be income tax relief/freeze or secondary benefit from health care planning.  Is Sen. McCain the only person with a problem and feeling confused by this?
The second note it that it strikes as odd that the most discombobulated (yeah I said it) campaign is accusing the other of trying to confuse the voters.
Also, could someone as Sen. McCain to stop using his creepy quotation fingers?
WHAT IF YOU ARE MAKING "NO" INCOME ?
Do those idiots at the McCain read before they say stuff, or do they rely on the ever so intellectual writers at Drudge and Fox for their facts?  What a wealth of knowledge.
Bomber this will be your last stand in politics,might as well go down swinging.I'm beginning to belive  that you are a under=informed old man.What Obama has said is that your taxes will not go up if you make 250,000,if you make less you will get a tax break.What we can't let happen is that we have a out of touch Washington insider( 26 years)  like you  anywhere near the Whitehouse So take your filthy rich wife home to one of you 10 houses and drive miss dazy around in one of your 15 cars.
If McCain was capable of understanding Obama's whole tax plan in the first place, he wouldn't keep screaming "Obama's changing, Obama's changing."
He's freaking out, he's freaking out!!  Someone help the old dude, he's getting rattled again.  Only 7 days to go and he cant find a message and his VP is wanting to go shopping again.  

Help us all and  
let it be over soon.
Obama/Biden 08
JUST SHOW ME THE MONEY...SHOW ME THE MONEY.
Blah blah blah, McLies, McLies, McLies.  

If you believe anything the Republicans say I've got a story about a bridge to nowhere for you. . .

Obama/Biden '08
If Obama truly wants to increase taxes for those earning $42,000. plus why doesn't the public know this? If McCain realizes this why isn't he speaking up? Rather than saying, "Obama will raise your taxes", get specific, i.e. "Let's take a look at the facts, folks: Obama wants to raise taxes at the $42,000. level. That is going to hurt the middle class!!"
WHATS WRONG NOBODY OUT THERE WANT TO ADMIT NOBAMA IS JUST A LIAR.
Oh My God.

McCain is desparate. He needs to watch every word and syllable Obama and Biden speak in order to criticize and attack without offering anything of his own.  

Desparation looks so unpleasent on people, especially on an old man that keeps yelling at clouds and a moose woman who has no business in the race.

It's over McCain. Over.
DO THEY NOT KNOW THAT ALL THEIR LIES/DISTORTIONS ARE GOING TO BE CHECKED AND REBUTTED??

COME ON McCAIN, QUIT INSULTING US ALREADY!

NOBODY CARES WHAT YOU SAY AT THIS POINT. WE KNOW IT'S ALL LIES AND/OR DISTORTIONS.


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