ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Do guns still matter?

Posted: Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:16 PM by Carrie Dann


From NBC's Carrie Dann
During the Democratic primary, when Barack Obama told donors in San Francisco that "bitter" voters in hardscrabble Pennsylvania "cling to their guns and religion," the words rang like music in his political opponents' ears.  Obama foes hoped that the senator's inartful description of economically-strapped gun enthusiasts would cut his support from rural whites off at the knees.

The comment also put an exclamation point on Obama's record on guns, which has drifted to the center since his days as an Illinois state senator. As the general election heated up, the National Rifle Association announced an eye-popping $15 million ad campaign intended to serve as a loudspeaker for suspicions about Obama's alleged hidden intention to limit gun ownership.  

 But as the vote margins of the presidential race rolled in, the one-time wedge issue of the Second Amendment did not seem to pack the national-stage punch for which the influential gun lobby had aimed. Nationally, gun owners broke for McCain by almost the identical margin that they broke for Bush in 2004.  But in the states where the NRA Political Victory Fund's toughest efforts against Obama were concentrated -- gun-rich regions in states like Colorado, Pennsylvania, and New Mexico -- Obama’s victory was decisive. The Democratic nominee won those states by eight, 11, and 15 points, respectively.  Of the 11 states where the NRA's anti-Obama ads were reportedly aired, McCain won only one: Texas.

Down the ballot, the NRA backed all six of the Republican Senate candidates who lost to Democratic challengers. And in several high-profile House contests, NRA-backed candidates like Ed Tinsley, Bill Sali, Steve Chabot, and Phil English came up short.

But the ballot results also showed that advocacy of gun rights served as a cache calling card for some successful conservative Democrats. Many of the centrist Dems who fared well on Tuesday -- like Bobby Bright (AL-02), Harry Teague (NM-02), John Boccieri (OH-16) and Debbie Halvorson (IL-11) -- have high ratings from the NRA.

(Halvorson even won their endorsement. But three other Democrats in competitive races who received endorsements from the NRA – Don Cazayoux  (LA-06), Tim Mahoney (FL-16), and Nick Lampson (TX-22) -- lost their reelection bids.)

Gun control activists like Paul Helmke, the president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, believe that the Supreme Court's recent decision in Heller v. District of Columbia, which affirmed gun ownership as an individual right, assuaged gun owners' fears about having "their guns taken away," reducing some of the Second Amendment's bite as a wedge issue.

The apparent lack of salience of gun rights and other social issues may be due, in large part,  to the deafening wave of economic woes that dominated voters' decision-making this cycle.  Still, the influence of the once-dominant gun lobby appears to be up for debate, at least until the 2010 election.

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Oh no, they'll take my guns! It's sad that people in many areas don't trust their local law enforcement enough to protect themselves that they think they need bazookas. Good thing common sense won this time.

http://demockracy.com/what-today-means/
Taking guns away from law abiding citizens only makes the job easier for the crooks. Maybe you've never had someone break into your house, but if you think the cops are going to get there first to protect you, your not only naive, but your dead.
Don't you ever believe that people in this country are ready to give up their guns.  Whoever tries will be facing the smoking end of them.
Actually, I understand that there's a fairly well established genetic connection between guns and small penises.
In the wake of the Obama victory gun shops are reporting  a spike in sales. Prices on some guns, those seen as endangered under an Obama administration, are going up as much as 20%. Some stores are sold out of the dreaded and evil semi-auto "assault rifle". Obama's election will sustain brisk sales through the end of 2008 and will probably carry into Q1 of 2009.
Hell, when you are as paranoid as most of the members of the NRA are, Obama would be considered a terrorist if he said that cannons have no place in anyone's home. NRA nuts need as many of those AK47s as they can get their hands on.
The 8-year old kid who fatally shot himself in the head after his father let him fire an automatic weapon shows that having a gun is useless unless you have brain to go with it.  (Did I mention this was at a gun show full of know-it-all gun lovers promoting the sheet b.s. fiction that there is such a thing as safe civilian ownership of automatic weapons?)  Keep it up, pathetic loony gun nuts.  You're just digging your own graves.
Say what you want, Waco happened under Clinton.  Bottom line, 80 some odd innocents burned alive by the US government.  You can believe the press releases or ask the hard questions like:  Did forty or so children need to die so some national guard jackasses could drive around in a tank to get their jollies by killing innocents?  How about when soldiers pointed assault rifles at an 11 year old cuban boy in florida?  All under Clinton, lovely stuff - your rights.  They're fine until they are an inconvenience, then they're gone.  Your guns are the only guarantee.
I am a gun owner, a gun collector, a hunter, and a zealous supporter of the Constitution. I am also a Democrat who has been totally committed to Barack Obama from the start. I believe all real Democrats support the Constitution including the Second Amendment. President Elect Obama has been clear in his support of the right of private citizens to own firearms. I truly believe this topic is nothing more than another emotionally charged, highly political, completely fake wedge issue that Republicans dream up and use to scare voters. Sportsmen and outdoorsmen will quickly see there is nothing to fear but Republican propaganda. As long as Barack Obama is president our Second Amendment rights along with our personal fire arms will be safe and secure.
Thank you to all you supposed gun owners who voted for President-elect O'bama. Thank you to all you great hunters who didn't make it to the polls. Thank you to all the supposed tough NRA members.

The control is now ours. Soon and very soon, we will forge your guns into plow shares. Enjoy your little toys now, because we are coming to get them!!!
Guns DO still matter, to honest law-abiding citizen voters, homeowners, fathers, mothers, church-goers and all those who are able and willing to protect what is rightfully theirs, from criminals and politicians who would take away. Like the Court said, a pistol is the choice for defense, even a weak invalid can hols a criminal at bay with one gun hand while the other hand phones the police. A gun is an equalizer. NRA 4Ever.
This garbage put out by the NRA and others about Obama taking away guns is the same garbage the neocons have been using for decades now to fool people into voting for them. They have no interest in working for the middle class or those folks in Pennsylvania and other areas where hunting and guns are big pursuits. So folks quit worrying about Obama. He backed the Supreme Court's ruling on the 2nd amendment and being a constitution scholar will treat this mighty document with the respect it deserves.
Easily influenced, often poor and bigoted hard-right wingers have been trained to fight for the corporate interest of gun companies, even at the expense of their own families.  Although there is no plausible threat to their Second Amendment rights, they will vote gun rights first over their jobs, children's health and education, putting food on the table, being able to heat their homes, etc.  In some ways, you really have to feel sorry for these people.  These folks have been led astray for so long, they no longer function as rational adults.  Fortunately, Barack Obama will be a strong, compassionate President for all Americans, even the falsely led.
I think those fans of strict consructionism and original intent should interpret the Second Amendment as the right to bear arms that existed in 1789 or so.
Guns don't kill people.  Bullets kill people. Republicans vote to sell the guns that deliver the bullets which kill people.

I will be happy when we can take your guns from your cold dead political party.

RIP GOP 2008
No one's taking anyone's guns away.  The right wingnuts are just waiting for the sky to fall, which is sad.  It's not going to fall, chicken little, but a little more education might just help that paranoia.
How about some "smart" abortion control.  That would just impress the poo right out of me by golly gee.
Let me tell you a litle story. In the early 90's a report from the former KGB was released. In this report was the feasability of USSR invading the US. This report concluded that the high water mark for the invasion may only reach the coastal states. The Armed Forces were a factor in this thinking, however it was the fact that Americans own guns that made the report say that an invasion wold not work. Do you still want to take our guns away? And yes, people should have the right to own whatever kind of guns they want. Who are you to delegate that right to them. Next you'll tell us what kind of TV's to own that's right, too late.
The NRA lost a good part of its argument when the Supreme Court ruled on 2nd amendment gun rights this summer. As noted at the time by a representative from a gun violence prevention group in Minnesota:

"By establishing and indiviual right to own a firearm, the court eliminated the gun lobby's biggest excuse againt going anything at all -- the fear that any law is a first step toward at total gun ban."
Guns, as in the 8 year old who shot himself with an Uzi, because under 16s were "free".

Guns, as in the increase of VTech, Columbine-like incidents.

I am all in favor of letting people make their own decisions about guns, but not automatic weapons, which I think should be limited to the police and the military.

Guns, which statistics show are more likely to hurt their owners and their nearest and dearest than anyone else.

Guns that are the last refuge of the poor and desperate; at least they have the power to kill someone.

What is the matter with you all?  It's not an issue with Obama, who has submitted to the middle.  But it's an issue with me, as we have an order of magnitude more gun violence than other countries that make access more difficult.
I am amazed with the paranoid attitude of so many NRA folks and gun enthusiasts. I have two lever action rifles, A marlin 22 and and a 30-30. My mom's family were hunters from Eastern PA and we have always had shot guns and rifles.

I have some very simple rules for safety. The weapons are never kept loaded and the ammo is stored separately from them. I would never own a hand gun as keeping one in the home makes it too easy to become careless and get someone killed or maimed.

The founders never intended to have assault type weapons in the population and Barack took a reasonable position on gun control after a recent decision by the supreme court. A prevalence of hand guns in densely populated urban areas is clearly not a good thing as hand guns are for killing people while shotguns are much better for home defense and hunting.

Guess what guys, the number of guns one owns had nothing to do with one's manhood or it's size, lol. The right to bear arms is constitutional but the excesses of many gun owners are both childish and dangerous.

In rural America, guns are useful for hunting and varmint control. In urban areas, handguns often cause more problems than they solve and poor gun security is the cause of many unnecessary injuries and deaths primarily by children who are do not understand the difference between toys and the real thing.

Grow up, fellas! Barack is not going to take our guns away and no matter how many you have or how big they are your endowment will always be the same size. ;)

Oh and Barack's "bitter" comment did not disparage owning guns, but "clinging to them". Believe it or not the invaders are not coming to get you any time soon, lol.

One more for Kid Galahad, Bush kept us safe AFTER he woke up but by then the terrorists had killed almost 3000 innocents. Read Richard Clark's fist book if you need a reality check.  

I worked much of the last year to help elect Obama.
I own guns.
They are not mutually exclusive.
Thankfully we FINALLY have a President who sees issues with more depth and nuance than the simpleton who is leaving the country in it's worst shape ever.
I own 11 rifles, 2 shotguns, and 1 pistol.  I love my guns and hunting.  However, I do not own any assault rifles and I do not see any need for them beyond the military.  The NRA pushes 2nd amendment rights to the extreme.  I gave up  my membership when they called the federal law enforcement agents "Jack-booted thugs."   By the way, so did George H. W. Bush drop his membership over the same issue. When sensible gun laws are proposed, I will support them.  I won't give up my guns and sensible laws won't ask me to do that.  But I don't expect the government to allow shooting off cannons and machine guns in the hunting fields.
Why are the top six cities amoungst major developed urban areas for murder rates all in the USA?

CITY MURDERS PER 100,000
(1) Washington, D.C., USA  69.3
(2) Philadelphia, USA 27.4
(3) Dallas, USA  24.8
(4) Los Angeles, USA  22.8
(5) Chicago, USA  20.5
(6) Phoenix, USA  19.1
(7) Moscow, Russia  18.1
(8) Houston, USA 18.0
(9) New York City, USA  16.8
(10) Helsinki, Finland  12.5
(11) Lisbon, Portugal    9.7
(12) San Diego, USA    8.0
(13) Amsterdam, Netherlands    7.7
(14) Belfast, N.Ireland, UK    4.4
(15) Geneva, Switzerland    4.2
(16) Copenhagen, Denmark    4.0
(17) Berlin, Germany    3.8
(18) Paris, France    3.3
(19) Stockholm, Sweden    3.0
(20) Prague, Czechoslovakia    2.9
@ LAUGHING AT PENNSYLVANIA Tx

We did not sell our souls to the devil. The Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, and Wilkes-Barre are sold our soles to the devil. These three key areas of PA are far more densly populated that rural areas of Pa that may include the majority of gun owners in this state. I don't even really feel like getting this. I voted for for McCain.
I live in Oregon and grew up with great grandfathers who hunted - guns and gun safety were a natural part of childhood.

Things now are a lot different than they were forty and fifty years ago and there appears to be more crazies with guns in the woods and on the streets simply because there are more people.

As the population increases, it is a given than regulation of some type also increases and that is true with gun ownership. Unfortunately, the NRA has made gun ownership in to a love affair or a religion that distorts the real issues and exacerbates emotions irresponsibly. The ads in the last election are but the most recent example of the hysteria they attempted to engender.

The Second Amendment protects gun ownership. The Amendment does not define the type of guns that are protected. Personally I have no issue with guns used for sporting purposes  although I think the use of bow and arrow would be more in the tradition of the sport. That is a personal preference.

I do have major issues with people who "hunt" from airplanes and helicopters; that is not sport; that is slaughter. Danger is a part of hunting; eliminate that and one cheapens the entire activity. I think it is called unfair advantage at best and could be cowardice.

I also have issues with individuals who demand the right to own weapons appropiate for the battle field and have not place in a civil society unless the individuals are native terrorists with nefarious designs in mind. The imagery may be a bit strong, but it fits in many cases.

Happily, economic concerns overshadowed the fear mongering of the NRA in the past election.

And for what it is worth, I still own guns and have them in my home.
Apparently, few here KNOW Obama's stand on guns? But, please, feel free to yap on in ignorance.
Hey "Laughing at Pennsylvania TX".. why don't you show your racist, bias opinion alittle more openly? What are you going to have to say for yourself when he doesn't take those things away? The only way for people to lose their cars and phones is because they can't afford it. And guess what? That has already happened under Pres. Bush.

Why are you so afraid of change? Nobody (besides ignorant people) have been calling him a "messiah". He has been saying that this will be a long tough road we have to go down to fix things.

Way to go in making this great state of Texas look ignorant.
To everyone that supports the assault rifle ban, how many times do you here of a murder with one. most of them are carried out with hand guns. and it has been proven that someone can shoot more bullets faster with two hand guns than one 20 round clip assault rifle. Take the crime rate in Alaska where if a store is being robbed at gunpoint, patrons have the right to shoot the robber. And with the amount of people who carry guns legally, the crime rate is next to nill compared to the rest of the country. So be carefull of what you wish for, b/c some day you may be attacked in your home with nothing but a bat, and the robber having a gun.
FR - You guys are clinging on to old news.  Just love to start a fight over non - sense.

Some things never change.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
it's a shame, that grown men can come across like kid galahad. gbush took this country to the gates of hell and you so called grown men didn't say a thing, now you think you know everything, to bad you didn't know everything about gbush. look in the mirror at youself as you are sad and foolish, you want to put a man down you don't even know just to appear to have brains, but you don't, you have great mental issues that need some counseling.
Yeah! thats right Barack!  You just try to do something you arent going to do!! yeah, we'll show you what happens when you try to do something you're not doing!! yeah.
duh dum de dum de dum dum dum dum duM, dum de dum de dum de dum de dum dum duuuhh. drool drool drool.
When you give government the wedge to take some thing away like the SO CALLED Assault Rifles then you give them the leverage to take it to the next level and that is Handguns, You should protect ALL firearms as an equal or else you will lose everything, we need to repeal the 1986 NFA law to give us all of our firearms rights back not just semi-autos I mean everything that belongs to us, there are to many useless regulations and not enough trust in our people, we left Europe to get away from taxes and big government and now we have an English speaking Fidel Castro that is going to run this country for four years unless we can Impeach him for not disclosing his real place of Birth which is NOT the United States of America!!    
To "JCR":
And I suppose you're a big-weenied stud, you big
tough non-gun-owning studmuffin?
Here's hoping you suffer a home invasion (like they
have LOTS of in that gun-free utopia across the pond,
England) and you're forced to watch your wife being
raped before they strangle you both (I wonder if you'll be wishing THEN that you had a gun handy, instead of that big pee-pee you're so proud of.)
Except that it wouldn't be fair for your wife (or
daughter, or the mother you probably still live
with,) I'd say you deserve it... stupid statist
idiot! (Oh wait, I forgot you think your BRAIN
is big, also. Sorry 'bout that, JCR.)


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=1661613

First Read e-mail alerts


Sign up for First Read alerts
The first place for key political news and analysis

Syndicate This Site

Add First Read to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google