Franken camp claims closer margin

Posted: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:43 PM by Domenico Montanaro

Counting Conundrum: The ongoing Minnesota recount saga

From NBC’s Jeff Hanley
Marc Elias, lead attorney for the Franken campaign, in a teleconference call today declared that the gap in votes between Al Franken (D) and Norm Coleman (R) is now only separated by a double-digit total vote margin.

Citing evidence from Franken recount observers, Elias said that, as of last night, 51.1% of all ballots cast have been counted and that Franken had picked up votes.

The Franken campaign also believes the remaining ballots that have not yet been counted will lean in favor of Franken, a stark contrast from the Coleman campaign's assertion that the recount would be frontloaded with Franken ballots.

The Franken campaign also accused the Coleman campaign of frivolous ballot challenges. Giving an example of one such instance, Elias said the Coleman campaign believes that, “If you voted for John McCain, it is inconceivable that you didn’t intend to vote for Norm Coleman.”

Ten ballots were produced by Elias that he said showed no question in the intent of voters -- that they had clearly intended to vote for McCain for president but Franken for senator.

When asked during the teleconference if mediation would occur between the Coleman and Franken campaigns related to ballot challenges prior to the Minnesota State Canvassing Boards hearing on the matter Dec. 16th, the Franken campaign responded simply, “There have not been any such discussions.”

At last check, Coleman was up by about 200 votes officially. The recount is being updated here by the Minnesota Secretary of State.

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Comments

Wow, this could get ugly, but hopefully, who ever ends up with less votes after the official recount, doesn't resort to lengthy litigation and merely concedes in grace.

Pat Huntington NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:01 PM)

This is a nail biter. Very close votes are usually a mess. You can bet that no matter who wins there will be more challanges, court cases etc. This may not end for the entire term of whoever wins. Stupid challenges are flying and accusations made. What a mess.

me (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:03 PM)

The Minnesota recount mess is just another clear indication of the "lie-deny," and "distract-attack" strategies of the GOP/RNC. In the limited mind capacity of the RNC, their message is simple. "It is okay to delay, as long as, everything goes their way." The recount soap opera will continue. That is fact America!

Rock,Janesville,Wisconsin (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:03 PM)

This post is a bit confusing. In the first sentence it describes a double digit totl vote margin (less than 100) yet the final paragraph reports tht Coleman is up by 200 votes. Granted, we have a movingb target here, but what is the vote difference.

Ron Indiana (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:08 PM)

Things that make you go "Hmmmm" (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:11 PM)

Time for the Republicans to start calling moderate Democrats to see if they are ready to switch parties. Oh wait, there are no moderate Democrats.

In The Middle (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:12 PM)

Sorry, but since when does Marc Elias decide voter preference?

Split tickets are a VERY common thing, especially if you want one person as President, but the other party in charge of Congress

Brandon (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:15 PM)

The liberal media constantly made fun of Sarah Palin. The hated her for how she looked, talked, what she had accomplished, and what she represented. SNL just pounded the living day-lights out of her. But when a real SNL member runs for office, the liberal media is silent. In Minnesota there is a real live comedian with no clue, no accomplihments, and no idea, that may be a US senator. And the liberal media says . . . . nothing.

Donna, Lansing MI (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:16 PM)

Well, it looks like the impeccably dapper Mr. Coleman will be kicked out and won't need all those very expensive business suits, ties and Italian shoes he received as "gifts".

It's back to small-town Minnesota and he'll be stuffed into flannel shirts and work boots. No silk neckties or silk socks required.

Meanwhile that goofy, third-rate comedian will take his place. That really is the end for the GOP.

James (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:18 PM)

The Minneapolis Star has the current gap at 130, it was at 136 last night. Since last night McLeod County has completed its recount Coleman lost 9 votes and Franken lost 4, which is a net gain of 5 for Franken. Coleman had 7 challenges and Franken 12. the only other County with an update since last night is Renville. Coleman lost 1 vote and Franken gained 1 vote for a net gain of 2. Orginally the Star had Coleman with 1 challenge and Franken with 476 challenges. That has now been corrected to 2 challenges, although no one at the Star has corrected Franken's running total. Based upon the data provided Franken should have 427 challenges not 901.

Not a Gopher Fan (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:19 PM)

In the middle....I think you got it backwards...you mean there are no moderate republicans. You can say thank you to the Club for Growth and Focus on the Family for that nugget.

Nick in IL (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:23 PM)

Minnesota elected a professional wrestler who used to wear boas to be their governor. So why can't a complete idiot that dressed up as a woman be their Senator?

Ice Fisher (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:23 PM)

As a avid Air America listner,( when I can get it) I wish Al Franken all the luck, and cant believe that Mn. would go to Norm Coleman. I will be watching and listening with much intrest in this race. I am not as worried as some about a 60 vote majority, I feel like
even a republican has got to be concerned about the state of our Union and most will want to do the business of the people for fear of losing thier own seat in 2 or 4 years. I think they know we are watching for real now. I for one e-mail my senators
almost weekley so they will know I am paying attention. Lindsey Graham and Jim Demint are no more than Bush rubber stamps and if they obstruct my President they will hear it regularley. Hopefully here in S.C. the working class will wake up and put thier Bibles and guns down long enough to see who has thier best intrest at heart.

marty

marty,columbia,s.c. (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:23 PM)

It makes zero sense that the only person picking up votes is Franken. He's already been proven wrong with one of his allegations, that of challenging the ballot of a woman he claimed had a stroke so her signature was shaky. The only question here is why the people of Minnesota would elect such a complete buffoon.
But I guess he's no more of a buffoon than Pelosi, Reid or Barney Frank.

Eric, Salinas CA (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:24 PM)

In the middle:

And the republicans have been very moderate over the past 8 years. Those crazies on the lunatic fringe make up the entire republican party. Which is why the country is rejecting them more and more. Go ahead, stay a "moderate republican", you'll all go the way of the dinosaurs.

Paul Miller - Webster, NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:24 PM)

Donna - Al Franken has written several books and doesn't sound like a complete and total moron when he speaks. Sarah Palin has maybe read a couple of books, but you can't tell by listening to her talk.

That "liberal media" whine is lame. It's just that you don't want to know.

Lee (MY REAL NAME, DAN!) (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:26 PM)

The Coleman campaign's assertion that a vote for McCain would be a vote for Coleman has no basis in fact. I would say that there are plenty of people who split between parties provided that the voted all the way down the ballot.

S.B. Stein E.B. NJ (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:27 PM)

Why are these two fools holding press conferences everyday? Why are they not making sure the system is working properly and the votes re-counted? Instead, we get politics--not something that is very Minnesotan.

Oh, and MSNBC, I see you like to make comparisons between MN and FL. The difference is that our procedures are in place and being followed. Our ballots are consistent and not electronic for manipulation. We just have a close election and procedure in place to account for that. So, back off of that please.

Nicholas: Minnesota (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:28 PM)

It is truly a stunner that Coleman has lost votes in every district. Number theory states that the there will be an even distribution of errors across all districts. And yet, that theory doesn't seem to hold true in this case.
Things that make you go "Hmmmm"

Coleman hasn't lost votes in every district. Go to the Minneapolis star tribune website, and you can see county by county results, as they are reported. This isn't Florida, and as much as I'm glad that I'm not a Golden Gopher, Minnesota's recount will be as clean and proper as can be! Of the counties that have completed their recount Coleman has come out ahead of Franken (his vote gap between Franken was better than prior to the recount) This includes three counties that Franken won in the election. 9 counties had no change in the vote totals (or a change, but the gain or lose for the two candidates was equal)

Not a Golden Gopher fan! (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:28 PM)

We really need to come up with an "idiot-proof" ballot, because too many people can't seem to fill out their ballot correctly (and this isn't a problem only in MN). Either the instructions aren't clear or people aren't reading them, but somehow we're ending up with a lot of mis-marked ballots. Regardless of who wins in MN, the losing party is going to feel the process was unfair.

Indie Woman in Denver (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:28 PM)

People of Minnesota get a lump of coal either way.

Elmer, Seattle (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:32 PM)

But when a real SNL member runs for office, the liberal media is silent. In Minnesota there is a real live comedian with no clue, no accomplihments, and no idea, that may be a US senator. And the liberal media says . . . . nothing.
Donna, Lansing MI

Donna that real comedian, is a Harvard graduate. Franken is extremely intelligent. Years ago Fred Grandy (of Loveboat fame) was a Congressman from Iowa, he was also a graduate of Harvard. Had he not given up his seat to run against the former Republican Governor in the primary (which he unfortunately narrowly lost) the western part of Iowa would be represented by an intelligent socially moderate Republican (think Olympia Snowe) in Congress, instead it's represented by Steve king, a right wing nut case! Franken has earned a living as a comedian, but he knows the issues, and would be a great Senator!

Sara, Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:34 PM)

Is the Minnesota Secretary of State a Republican or a Democrat? That's going to make a difference (least we forget Florida).

Diane from Illinois (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:34 PM)

In the Middle, you said: "Oh wait, there are no moderate Democrats."

There sure aren't if your only news sources are FoxNews and Talk Radio.
Fact is, FoxNews considers THEMSELVES to be "moderate", which is an amazing stretch of anyone's imagination.
MSNBC, except for their morning programming, is just as obviously radically left, but at least they don't try to pretend they aren't.
Heck, with a comment like that, I'm surprised you even bothered to read something that was written on MSNBC, much less comment about it.

What I'm trying to say here is if you talk to people, you'll find there are a whole lot of "moderate" people in both parties. You just have to open your mind beyond the extreme left- and right-wing media rhetoric.

Josh, Peekskill, NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:34 PM)

WAY TO GO AL, LET'S KEEP COUNTING !

Z (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:37 PM)

No wonder the GOP and the Coleman campaign were laying the groundwork for charges of unfairness even before election day. They knew what they'd have to do in order to keep Coleman in office and needed to be the injured party if it didn't work out as they wished.

John B, Des Moines, IA (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:38 PM)

Donna, you said:

"But when a real SNL member runs for office, the liberal media is silent."

Sarah Palin was running for National office, so the National media covered her.
Al Franken is running for Senator of Minnesota. Have you been watching the local media in Minnesota? How would be able to make a judgement like that if you haven't?

Josh, Peekskill, NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:38 PM)

This is a victory for Al, no matter who wins.
Now I will wait for Rush, O'Reilly, Liddy, Weiner to run for office.
I will wait,
and wait,
and wait,
then wait some more.

WDRussell, EL, OH (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:43 PM)

Donna Lancing Mi. Do your home work before you spout off.Al's jokes may have been to hard for you to understand .But Al has been much more then a SNL member.The guy's wrote a half dozen books,made a few movies and graduated from the same collage that Obama did.HARVARD.

jesse St.Paul Minnesota (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:43 PM)

Drudge has a ballot posted on his webpage that Franken is protesting. Take a look at it if you get a second. I guess the voters intentions aren't quite captured by the mark on that ballot.

Venetta K, St. Paul MN (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:49 PM)

Donna: Sarah Palin was running for Vice President and therefore part of the GENERAL election where everyone gets to vote. I live in CA and you live in Michigan and even though we are miles apart living in different states, Sarah Palin would be Vice president for both of us. This means the whole country gets to vote for or against the ticket that she was part of. Al Franken, on the other hand, is running for senator representing Minnesota. Only the people in Minnesota get to vote and if he wins it will be because the majority of people in Minnesota want him to represent them. Nothing to do with me and nothing to do with you. Do you see a difference? Did you hear either Al Franken or Norm Coleman talk about their plans? I didn't so I don't really have an opinion except that I am rooting for the guy with a "D" next to his name.

Oscar, Rio Vista CA (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:53 PM)

SWL (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:57 PM)

Rock,Janesville,Wisconsin..

What the heck are you talking about? The Repblicans are't delaying anything. Coleman had and has the lead so why would the Republicans delay? It is the Democrats and Franken who asked for the recount and they will do anything to get a win. Franken hardly has the moral high ground. I think you should know his true character. If you prefer the Franken, Michael Moore, Barney Frank, Rosie O'Donnell, Nancy Pelosi types, then you can look in the mirror to see what is wrong with America.

Joe Doe (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 2:57 PM)

Donna....
If Franken can hold on or even beat Norm, in spite of all the negative attributes he "obviously" is blessed with, what the heck does that tell you about Norm Coleman.
Norm's most obvious claim to fame during the last 4 years, is he stuck with Bush and relied on him for direction. Coleman is not a thinker, he is a walking rubber stamp.Voters in Michigan would not vote for him (even if they could) why should voters in Minnesota?

A.Brocco,Albuquerque,NM (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:00 PM)

Home Alone 101. If Franken win's, it shows that the man upstairs has a sense of humor. It is just hard to get that picture out of my head, of "Bush", with that smirkly grin......and his head bob-ing up and down........

Robert Colorado (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:07 PM)

Electronic voting machine counts always seem to benefit the Republicans. Hmmm.... And yet a supervised hand count seems to remove that benefit. Hmmm.... What does that tell you? You certainly can't fault supervised hand counted ballots that have been successfully used all over the world and still are used in most places. Hand counts seem to reflect exit polls better, also. Hmmm....

Chris Hooten, San Diego, CA (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:10 PM)

LOL, looking at some of the more conservative of these comments is laughable.
According to Republicans, professional wrestler Jesse "the Body" Ventura was a fine choice for Governor, but Al Franken, harvard graduate and author of multiple books, is not a reasonable choice for Senator?
Do you people even listen to yourselves?

Josh, Peekskill, NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:10 PM)

In the middle:

And the republicans have been very moderate over the past 8 years. Those crazies on the lunatic fringe make up the entire republican party.

Paul Miller - Webster, NY

Luntic fringe, like Snowe and Collins, Spector, Graham, Coleman, Warner, McCain, Martinez, Lugar? Are those the "fringe" you're talking about? Hagel, Grassley?

11 senators, all Republicans. Can you name 11 Democrats that have moderate views like these 11 Republicans?

Thought not. You're just like Obama. All talk.

In The Middle (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:10 PM)

"It is truly a stunner that Coleman has lost votes in every district. Things that make you go "Hmmmm""

This has been explained many times over the years. Poor, uneducated, and first-time voters tend to make mistakes in filling out the ballot. These have tended to be Democratic voters. The machine can't figure it out but the voter intent can be determined when a human does the re-count. There is no mystery or conspiracy involved. The real hmmm moments occur when there is a large reversal in only one or two districts.

nuanced (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:14 PM)

Donna in Lansing, I just want to stick up for you, because you're absolutely correct. Skewering Palin has become sport to some people. All the self-righteous people on this site seem to think their contempt is justified, but I would wager that very few of them have taken the time to see what she's actually accomplished (and none of them have ever governed a state). But the Al Franken candidacy is fertile material for jokes and no one will go near it. Heck, Joe Biden's comments were fertile for SNL jokes and no one went near them, either.

Diane, Iron Mountain MI (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:15 PM)

Hope Franken kicks Colemans asss by one vote.
Coleman acts like he owns the Senate seat and will cheat, lie, steal, and obstruct just to keep it.

hhkeller (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:18 PM)

"In Minnesota there is a real live comedian with no clue, no accomplihments, and no idea, that may be a US senator."

Now that's just stinkin' thinkin'

S. Smalley (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:20 PM)

Can we please stop blaming "the liberal media" for every unhappy event that occurs in a Republican's life? Stop bawling about how Sarah Palin was treated. She's an idiot. She couldn't handle mild questioning from Katie Couric and she thought living near Russia made her an expert on foreign policy, and voters rejected her on her performance. If she had half Al Franken's intelligence, it might have been a different story.

Carrie in Idaho (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:21 PM)

Do the Reugincans want to import ballot counters from Florida?

Larry Linn, Los Angeles, ca (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:21 PM)

This is typical propaganda brainwashing or the "D" party. As a democrat he most surely has won the race, who in his right mind would vote republican? Well I for one will vote republican because aside from Bush's messed up policies most of that party wants to lower my taxes. Democrats have NEVER seen a tax they did not like. I would like to keep as much of my hard earned money as possible.

Remember Washington State Governor Race 2004? the democrat lost the first two recounts by machine so called for another by hand, she won by a slim few hundred votes, most of those ballots were "found" unsecured and left where anyone could have tampered with them. if that is not loading the dice in your favor I do not know what is. the "R" party challenged in court when it looked as if she would lose the first thing said governor did was shove through a major tax package. So tell me who wants more of my money and why the hell should it be taken from me? The state of Washington is one of the highest taxed states in the union. Washington has been predominantly democratic controlled for years. See the correlation?

Oh and BTW I am not rich and saw a huge increase in money from Bush’s tax breaks for the rich. Ok I make around 60,000 and yeah if that is rich I would hate to see poor.

Mark, Seattle WA (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:24 PM)

Go to the Star Tribune or to Minnesota Public Radio's website, they update more often. The Secretary of State hasn't updated since yesterday!

Go Al (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:28 PM)

People, there's a link to the raw data. Please take a look before posting wild accusations.

The two sides are challenging almost the exact same number of ballots (0.03%). Of course both sides will be arguing that the other's challenges are not legitimate. But that hardly speaks to a major advantage.

As far as one candidate losing votes in every district, that's just false. The data is there for every district, just look at it. Both candidates have lost votes in general, Coleman has lost a few more. The fact that there's a delta of about 100 is very unsurprising.

Snoop Henderson, New York, NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:33 PM)

someone please explain how the state voted overwhelmingly for obama yet the senate race was mysteriously close ?? looks like florida 00 & michigan 04 all over again - just count all the votes - unless of course you have people that don't want all the votes counted...like "W" who is thankfully going back to Texas ...
SWL

There are several reasons. 1. People in Iowa and Minnesota split their tickets more so than the country at large. (I'm sure other states do as well, I just don't have first hand knowledge of their voting habits) 2. There was a moderate third party candidate on the ballot in Minnesota as well, this candidate took votes from both Franken and Coleman.

Mark Des Moines, Iowa (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:35 PM)

According to Republicans, professional wrestler Jesse "the Body" Ventura was a fine choice for Governor, but Al Franken, harvard graduate and author of multiple books, is not a reasonable choice for Senator?
Do you people even listen to yourselves?

Josh, Peekskill, NY

Josh, Jesse was an independent candidate, he wasn't the GOP or Democratic parties choice.

Go Al beat Norm! (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:39 PM)

In the Middle, you said:

"Can you name 11 Democrats that have moderate views like these 11 Republicans?"

The entire Clinton wing of the Democratic party was considered "moderate" up until 2002, when the Republican media started labeling every Democrat a "radical liberal" (except for Joseph Lieberman, the RNC's lapdog).
A large portion of the Democratic party is quite "moderate" in fact, Jim Webb would be an excellent example, hell, Hillary Clinton is "moderate" on most issues.
But if you ask FoxNews and their media allies, any politician with a "D" next to their name is a "radical".

Josh, Peekskill, NY (Sent Friday, November 21, 2008 3:46 PM)

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