First thoughts: A bad day for Big 3

Posted: Friday, December 05, 2008 9:12 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: First Thoughts

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Carrie Dann
*** A bad day for the Big 3: The heads of the nation’s three automotive companies return to Capitol Hill today to testify this morning on the House side. Could it possibly be as bad as it was yesterday before the Senate? Here’s a sample of the coverage: “[T]hey failed to close the deal for as much as $38 billion in federal loans” (Washington Post); "The chief executives of America’s foundering automobile manufacturers … found themselves confronting years of pent-up anger, the harsh politics of a recession and the realization that even their strongest supporters might not be able to muster the votes to save them” (the New York Times); and “[S]kepticism remained high… with lawmakers questioning Detroit's commitment to becoming more competitive and worrying that the taxpayers' money would quickly be frittered away” (LA Times). But the automakers aren’t the only ones receiving criticism. The AP notes that some Democrats, including Rep. Barney Frank, want Obama to be more assertive dealing with the economic crisis. And yesterday, per NBC’s Ken Strickland, Democratic congressional leaders asked the Bush White House to use the TARP now to help save the auto industry. "We again urge you to use funds available to you ... to provide emergency bridge loans to the auto industry." They added that government action is "essential to the Congress' ability to address this critical economic situation in a timely manner." Of course, we learned yesterday that Obama himself could influence TARP decisions now if he so chooses, at least according to Paulson aides.

*** More tough economic news: The Labor Department is reporting that an astonishing 533,000 jobs were lost last month, bringing the unemployment rate to 6.7%. Reuters says that is the highest unemployment reading since 1993.

*** The 750-Million-Dollar Man: Last night, the Obama folks reported raising more than $104 million from Oct. 16 to Nov. 24, which brings the total amount Obama raised during the primaries and general election to nearly $750 million. What's more, almost four million individuals contributed to the Obama campaign. And combined with what the DNC raised, it's now official: The Dems raised a $1 billion for the presidential election. Just think about the amount that Obama raised. It means that whoever ends up challenging him in 2012 -- Palin, Jindal, Huckabee, Pawlenty, Romney, or someone else -- will have to raise close to that figure to be competitive. It’s a daunting task for the Republican Party, especially in the McCain-Feingold era. In fact, the Republican that taps into the small donor enthusiasm of the conservative movement will be the candidate that survives -- not necessarily the one who has the deepest pockets, because we're guessing a self-funding candidate (like Romney?) has seen his net worth drop so much in the last few months that spending his own money will not be an option, period. By the way, Obama's transition team today will be sending out a debt retirement fundraising appeal on behalf of Clinton.

*** Pardon me? The speculation that California Rep. Xavier Becerra might be Obama’s US trade representative certainly appeals to Latino groups and organized labor (which likes Becerra’s stance on trade). But is it good for Eric Holder, considering that talk of Becerra is reminding folks about another infamous Clinton clemency deal -- the commutation of a Los Angeles cocaine dealer's prison sentence? And guess what? It turns out Holder played a role in this commutation, too. This accumulation of pardon chatter isn't helpful to Holder, let alone Becerra.

*** Obama’s grassroots army, part II: The Los Angeles Times has this interesting piece today: "Amid Obama's transition to power, a spirited and often secretive debate has broken out among top campaign staff members over how to refashion the broad network of motivated volunteers into a force that can help Obama govern. With 13 million e-mail addresses, hundreds of trained field organizers and tens of thousands of neighborhood coordinators and phone bank volunteers, the network has become one of the most valuable assets in politics… This weekend, hundreds of field staffers and some key volunteers are planning a marathon closed-door summit at a Chicago hotel to begin negotiating details of what the network might look like when Obama takes office in January. A group of field organizers from battleground states has been enlisted to draw up a plan." And next weekend, the Obama campaign (via another David Plouffe email) is pushing house parties where he hopes supporters will gather to brainstorm how to harness their enthusiasm for 2009 that has nothing to do with campaign politics.

*** The never-ending recount: The hand recount in Minnesota's Coleman-Franken race comes to an end today. But that just signals the beginning of the end of this recount drama: On Dec. 12, the state canvassing board meets to discuss the options of dealing with mistakenly rejected absentee ballots (The Franken folks see this as crucial to their hopes. The number of these absentee ballots -- 500 to 1,000 -- will be larger than the votes separating Coleman and Franken after the recount is completed.) And on Dec. 16, the canvassing board begins to rule on the challenged ballots, which will be posted online, and that process that will last through Dec. 19. One other date worth pointing out: Starting Monday through the week of the 16th, county officials will be reexamining, but not counting, the rejected absentee ballots (more than 9,000 in total) and re-separating them into "five piles" -- the first four piles are for ballots rejected for one of four legal reasons. Those NOT rejected for a legal reason go into the "fifth pile." Those are the 500-1,000 ballots that Franken is counting on. Confused enough?

*** The last race of 2008: Speaking of undecided races, the final competitive contest of 2008 takes place in Louisiana on Saturday, when district attorney Paul Carmouche (D) and doctor John Fleming (R) face off to replace retiring Rep. Jim McCrery (R). Democrats and Republicans say this general election, which got delayed due to Hurricane Gustav, is a jump ball. And perhaps the best way to view the contest is to see it as a cross between Tuesday’s Senate run-off in Georgia (it’s a GOP-leaning area, and Republicans probably benefit from being seen as a check and balance on an Obama Administration and a Democratic Congress) and the earlier Cazayoux-Jenkins special election in Louisiana (where the Democrat in the race is pretty conservative and is probably a better candidate than the Republican). David Wasserman, who monitors House races for the Cook Political Report, tells First Read that Fleming might have a slight advantage, only because the check-and-balances argument is particularly resonating after Obama’s win last month. By the way, embattled Louisiana Rep. William Jefferson (D) also is on the ballot Saturday, and he’s expected to win.

Countdown to Electoral Vote Count: 34 days
Countdown to Inauguration Day 2009: 46 days

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Comments

Pat Huntington NY (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:27 AM)

"Mia in Maimi - All cars are can be crap - who doesn't have a car horror story. Oh, and Auto Dealers sell cars. Auto Manufacturers make cars.

There are millions of people whose lives depend on the auto industry. Something like 10% of the American work force will be hurt if these companies are allowed to fail. That is the issue, not your opinion of cars. Barb in MI "
______________________________________________
Look Barb, I don't care who makes them or deals them and I am sure everyone else on this board knew what I was getting at. The thing is, american cars are crap and I don't know how they survived this long with the kind of cars they produce! And, you wonder why Toyota and Honda are the number 1 selling cars in America.

How about this...get those 3 big timers that are begging for "loan" money to go into their Offshore/Swiss bank accounts, put their money together and there you have it...there is your "bail out" money.

Mia in Miami (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:28 AM)

Heckuva Job Georgie! Your stinking economic nonsense has cost the country another 533,000 jobs lost. With unemployemnt on the rise it's sheer stupidity to be talking nonsense about letting the big 3 automakers go into bankruptcy thus further wrecking our swooning economy with even more job losses.

The bad economic news is just more repudiation of the supply side economics garbage. It's way past time for demand side economics by taking from the rich and greedy and giving to the poor and middle class so they can increase demand thus keeping more people off the unemployment line.

It's really pathetic that a bunch of lame duck repugnant ones still cling to their idiotic ideology and will do everything to wreck our country to spite the voters who threw the bums out of office.

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:30 AM)

For all the millions of dollars the unions like the UAW, the AFL-CIO, and the Teamsters just plowed into Democratic candidates campaign war chests, this is the respect they are given from the very people they helped elected? There is going to be heck to pay the next time the Democrats show up asking these unions for more money.

Union Label (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:31 AM)

Maybe Franken and Coleman can do a job share. M-W-F can be Colmans days. Franken, being the new guy, gets T-Th-Sat.

The Answer (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:32 AM)

the auto makers are agreeing to make consessions, the fat cats got over 700 Billion dollars and the Ceo's bailed out in their Golden Parachutes and went on glamorous vacations, if we can bail out the Wall Street Crooks, we can bail out the auto makers too..give them the $$$ allready.

gepa (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:33 AM)

Geez the nutcases need to give it a rest already about Clinton's pardons. There are plenty of skeletons in the pardon closet from Raygunz, Bush and Bush that the conservative lunatics have nothing to whine about Clinton's.

Sure looks like the Coleman crew of democracy crushers are trying to steal an election by throwing out a bunch of ballots that would give Franken the win. Sounds like Florida 8 years ago.

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:33 AM)

Watching the big three CEO's beg for money was like attending a funeral or wake: remembering the good times of buying my first 67"cuda", riding in my friends cherry red Mustang, the huge backseat of the old Chevy's. Days gone by...

After much thought, I'm against the bail out. Giving the big 3 money is like the banks making a bad loan. In no way can GM make a car as good as a Camry, not next year, not three years from now. People will not buy GM if they go into bankrupsy, but they are not buying them now! A bailout just prolongs the suffering. Will Bush help the auto industry? No, I doubt it. The unemployment lines will be waiting for Obama to fix. It is like watching a funeral.

Glad to see Henry Kissinger support Obama's national security team. Christopher Hitchens is crazy. He speaks well, but is clueless about the real world. No need to have him on Hardball.

A bit under the radar is the position for a technical computer/internet expert. My guess is Obama will create a new cabinet position for some guru with super-duper computer skills, not Bill Gates, more likely his own campaign technical expert. It is a position needed in this crazy electronic world.

Ron Indiana (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:38 AM)

"The heads of the nation’s three automotive companies return to Capitol Hill today to testify this morning on the House side. Could it possibly be as bad as it was yesterday before the Senate?"

Wow, did anyone actually listen to Dodd, Bayh, Casey, and Carper - or hear Moody's economist Mark Zandi say that the collapse of the Detroit 3 would have a "cataclysmic" effect on the economy?

I watched the entire hearing, and sure seems that the Democrats are determined to find a way to do bridge loans.

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich. (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:43 AM)

Liberals, especailly ones on this board, need to be very concerned about the jobless numbers. With so many people out of work, who is going to pay for all the benefits these same liberals are collecting from the government?

Food Stamps (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:58 AM)

I watched the entire hearing, and sure seems that the Democrats are determined to find a way to do bridge loans.

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich.

You must have missed the part where Schumer and Dodd berated the automakers and said they didn't trust them to get the job done, with or without the bail out money. Didn't sound too supportive to me. Even Reid says he's no where near having the votes to pass the bill, so that means many Democrats are not unboard.

Tisha W., Houston Tx (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:01 AM)

Has anyone ever stopped to think that most of the Honda's, Toyota's, and Nissan's are assembled right here in the good ole' US of A by American workers?

And even those companies sales are down 30% as well. The main problem is that people who do not have jobs cannot purchase cars, homes, electronics or anything else. 533,000 people out of work is says more about the economy than any bailout.

Instead of bailing out major corporations, why not just give every one who filed a tax return in 2007 $1 million to spend as they like. Not a loan, just give us the money and let's see what happens. It would cost a heckuva lot less than $700 billion!

How many struggling small business owners could us $1 million? Or families whose homes are in foreclosure? Or veterans coming back from Iraq & Afghanistan who cannot find a job or have serious injuries suffered in combat?

Michael7 (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:06 AM)

thats a fact jack (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:06 AM)

The Minnesota recount is not confusing to anyone who actually takes a minute to educate themselves on the process, and the issues. This isn't the Florida 2000 situation, the person who had the most people intend to vote for him may not win, but it won't be because of political insiders suppressing, or refusing to count legally cast votes. I want Franken to win, and I think he had more people (not by a large margin) intend to vote for him. However, some people have invalidated their votes by being too cute by half, such as jokingly writing in Lizard people on the write in space. The circle wasn't also filled in, as that voter did with other races, but it probably will be determined to be an over vote (vote for two or more candidates), other voters (for both candidates) signed their name, which under Minnesota law automatically disqualifies the vote. I'm sure no voter knew that proudly identifying himself would invalidate their vote on a recount (the machine counted the vote initially, because the law violation isn't picked up on a machine count, only a hand recount)

Also the myth that the people who screw up voting are overwhelmingly Democrats is quickly dispelled if you take the ballot challenge at the Minneapolis Star Tribune website. Just as many Coleman votes as Franken votes either merely placed a check mark, X, or filled in an oval near the name, but not in the space provided. Minnesota and Iowa traditionally trade spots as #1 and #2 in SAT scores, and other HS academic measures, and yet a fair amount of their voters failed to correctly mark their ballots.

Under Minnesota law (easily available on the Star, and Minnesota Public Radio website) voter intent is liberally applied, so while the voters who proudly identified their ballot will have their ballot rejected on clear statutory grounds (and with a close to even effect on both candidate-but in a race this close, it does mean that the candidate more people who were legally entitled to vote, registered etc, who voted for a candidate be it Franken or Coleman, might not see that candidate sworn into the Senate)However those ballots were voter intent was clear, such as the voter put checks or X's on all candidates they voted for will have those votes counted, even if they were too light for the machine to pick up.

The idea that Minnesota would not count legally cast absentee ballots, but through honest human error (oversight, mistake, nothing nefarious) were mistakenly rejected by local county officials, when that number exceeds the total vote count is morally wrong. This could swing the race either way. Franken could be ahead after the challenges are resolved (a large percent of both candidates challenges are merit less, Coleman's campaign was so bold to actually state the reason they were challenging a ballot was "frivolous", they couldn't even make up a reason for the challenge- give them points, but not the challenge for honesty!)And if you count the valid, but erroneously rejected absentee ballots it could swing the election from Franken to Coleman, however as much as I don't want to see Coleman re-elected, I and most people (even diehard partisans) want the real winner to win the election.

The one thing I don't understand is why Minnesota doesn't have their machines calibrated to reject over votes (or similar voting errors the machine can pick up) I volunteered in 2004 and 2008 in Iowa as a Democratic poll watcher. I was surprised this year the number of times the machine rejected a ballot. The poll worker (the actual paid workers) would immediately tell the voter to come back and get their ballot, she would then look at the machine to see the reason for the error. Once or twice the reason was the voter failed to circle in the choice (i.e. put a check or X instead of filling in the oval), but about a dozen times (in a precinct of 400 voters) people voted for more than one candidate. The machine indicated it was an over vote, and the race, or if more than one race was an over vote, it indicated multiple. In these situations the voter was given a new ballot, the old ballot was marked defective, and placed in a special envelope, etc. After the fifth time this happened I wondered how these people could be so dumb, thinking how could someone vote for both McCain and Obama, but the head of elections explained that their second vote was a lesser known candidate further down the list of presidential or congressional candidates. While it was still not the brightest move on the voters part, because there were about 10 Presidential candidates, as they got further down the list, they thought it was a new race. If Minnesota's voting machines rejected these over votes at the outset, and the voter was given a new ballot to vote more than half the ballots currently on the ballot challenge (over 1,300 as of yesterday) would have been resolved before the close of the polls.

Do the recount right Minnesota (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:25 AM)

Why is it that when Pres Bush and Secr Paulson told us that the entire economic system would collapse in a week that Congress just layed down, asked no questions and approved a blank check with no oversight and accounting for the money?

Then when the auto industry, that got it's start here in this great country, asks for a loan, not a bailout, Congress gets all Third Reich on us.

This fragile economy cannot afford any more loss of jobs, and failed industries. We're bailing out Iraq and will continue to do so for months and months to come, why not do something to save the Big 3 Auto.

We seem to have become good at gagging on a gnat but swallowing a gorilla with no problem.

J. Ellis, Virginia (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:26 AM)

Spot on, Pat Huntington in NY!

This economic crisis presents a golden opportunity for social engineering as well as shaping economic policy. Put a cap on all compensation of corporate execs--you want to be a millionaire, fine, but ONLY if your accomplishments justify it and everything over a million gets taxed at 99%. It is obscene to hold assets that exceed what can possibly be spent. Giving the working poor and poverty stricken enough money to make the same meaningful choices about their lives that corporate managers have will eliminate the need for many of the social programs and 'safety nets' that government has had to construct to save them. Strings attached? Of course. We all must be good stewards of what we've been given. But by the same token, US taxpayers cannot afford to give away tax dollars to corporations without a say in how they are spent. (The only way Henry Paulson can ever redeem himself is to take back the billions he unconditionally gave financial institutions, since they haven't put it into the credit markets like they were supposed to.) The Big 3 automakers with hats in hand are now sheepishly trying to convince us they're just like us. They can start by leveling the playing field, becoming instruments of social and economic equality and reducing class distinctions by making us more like them. Let's start by taking them up on their offer to work for $1 a year. We can tell them next year that their days of insane greed are over for good.

boomer Consumer, Chicago, IL (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:27 AM)

We have no choice but to make sure the auto industry does not fail. The number of jobs and spin offs this would affect will be another diaster for our country, one I do not know if we can survive.
There was mismanagement, mistakes and too much of the good ole boy policies, but nothing compared to what the financial institutions have done to us and they got billions of dollars in bailout with no stipulations. They continue their criminal acts with our taxpayer dollars. All remaining funds to them should be frozen until they stop raping the American taxpayers.

katiec (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:29 AM)

can everyone say thank you to bush and his republican cronies for running AMERICA into the ditch, today we are less safe than at anytime during our history thanks to bush for destroying AMERICA'S economy
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The economic crisis has been decades in coming. People of both parties are guilty in contributing to it. Wake up.

That's a fact Jill (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:35 AM)

Stanley Steamers are gone. So are the original electric cars. Energy inefficient, overpriced, high pollution vehicles don't meet the needs of this nation in these times. How many people can afford environmentally friendly vehicles at a minimum of 35 or 40 thousand dollars? If the big three can't do the job let em go the way of the Stanley Steamer.

Reno Will (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:36 AM)

--> Has anyone ever stopped to think that most of the Honda's, Toyota's, and Nissan's are assembled right here in the good ole' US of A by American workers? <--

Left up to Schumer and Dodd, they'll be sending the Japanese automakers a bail out while denying it to the Big 3.

Trun Cato (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:36 AM)

Give the Big 3 the money with HUGE strings attached.
This is a NO BRAINER..

Wall street got Billions and they still go out on 500,000 dollar massages. Paulson pulled the wool over everyones eyes to save his friends. They could give a crap so lets tell the Auto people to go to hell???
NO FAIR

Nj (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:37 AM)

I wish we could punish Bush for the poor job as president. I think we should take away any money he earned while he was in office. I don't think I would get paid if I did not do my job. What kind of payment can we give him though for all the lives lost at war. The forclosures. Then to have to hear all about the 2 million dollar home they just bought. Why so big Who would ever want to associate with him. It just makes me sick to my stomache.

Mishka Mehrens Anaconda (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:41 AM)

And you right wing nut job complain about spreading the wealth. If the CEO's of these big firms put some of the wealth back in the economy than they would need no bail outs. The economy has slow down because trickle down economic did not work, instead it trickle upward to the top and as stated earlier the wealth is in the hands of few, their paws are clinch tight and it's cheaper to outsource. As Mcdaddy stated in Michigan don't look for them to come back. Stop whining from the Graham man. Big B said it wasn't me, I've got mine. The gift that keep on giving. Are we Socialist yet? Please spread the wealth we all could us a little.

Jes S.C. (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:49 AM)

thats a fact jack (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:51 AM)

Michael7 Wrote: Instead of bailing out major corporations, why not just give every one who filed a tax return in 2007 $1 million to spend as they like. Not a loan, just give us the money and let's see what happens. It would cost a heckuva lot less than $700 billion! (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:06 AM)

I like your answer very much but I fear this would be far too sensible and simple to work in Washington.

J. Ellis, Virginia (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:54 AM)

Yes, we only have one president at a time, but when the ACTUAL one is doing NOTHING, the NEXT ONE needs to be telling Paulson what to do, because clearly he doesn't get it. We can give the bank and finance folks all the money in the world, but IF THEY AREN'T PUTTING IT BACK INTO THE ECONOMY (i.e., ACTUALLY LENDING IT OUT), then we're all going to to poor house in a real hurry.

So PLEASE, Barack, JUST TELL Sec Paulson to give the bridge loans (with lots of strings attached) to the automakers and let's get on with getting this economy going again. Regardless of whatever sins the automakers have committed in the past, there are too many jobs for REAL PEOPLE at stake, not to mention our national security.

Indie Woman in Denver (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:55 AM)

Barney Frank needs to bite his lip. How dare he say Obama should be doing more? He's not even sworn in and won't be until January 20th. Yes, I too, wish Bush were gone, but that's nt happening until Jan. 20th, so get a grip and deal with it. Stop pressuring Obama; can you imagine the field day the press would have if he DID start making decisions BEFORE Jan. 20th? Give the guy a break, he will have enough to deal with Jan. 21st.

Diane from Illinois (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:55 AM)

"By the way, Obama's transition team today will be sending out a debt retirement fundraising appeal on behalf of Clinton." Ha Ha Ha I wonder whose idea that was? The first installment of Ol Bill's scheme is starting to play out. This is just the first string that comes with Hillary. It's gonna cost Obama a lot more than this debt retirement to keep her out of the 2012 race.

Elmer, Seattle (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:57 AM)

Just curious, how come the auto makers have not gone to the oil companies that they have been working hand to hand with over the last THIRTY YEARS to get some LOANS and try to give them a chance to invest in GREEN technology. We would be killing to birds with one stone. They could help revamp some factory to bult wind turbines, commits to establishing the gridlines and of course investing in R & D for electric cars and biofuels and we as taxpayers could cap our gas at no more than 8% above cost nationwide and stablize our gas prices under $2.50 a gal.
I am not genius but, should the corporations that swam together getting RICH throw the Lifeline to the one that have fallen overboard.
Just a thought.

Lonestarkaty, Rockville (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:00 AM)

After living many years in a GM manufacturing town, I can tell you there is plenty of blame to go around.

Yes, there are many hardworking employees at General Motors. There are plenty of union slackers too. But also as bad is its management. They have continually dragged their feet to provide what consumers really want--for over 30 years!

But we should really address what to do next.

It is sad and uncomfortable to abandon our auto industry. America needs a manufacturing base. Allowing the auto industry fail will further destroy our economy by affecting all businesses associated with it. Assistance now will be cheaper than survival after its collapse.

But on the other hand, we can't prop up an industry which is bound to fail. It will be sorely needed taxpayer cash thrown out the window. Perhaps we should assist the auto industry. But they MUST first provide a business plan that will realistically address its shortcomings.

sg, michigan (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:01 AM)

The US automobile industry is not hurting because of consumer spending. It has been hurting for the last ten years due to labor rates of $10-$20 more an hour than foreign competitors. It ends up being around $2000 more per car on labor alone. That's $2000 they have to cut in accessories which makes them less competitive. Outside of that they have way too many brands and dealerships. The US automobile industry is in a state that no bailout will fix.

Anyone who says we need to bailout the US auto industry because we can't afford to lose domestic made automobiles has no idea what they are talking about. Bankruptcy does not mean the company goes out of business. Chapter 11 is bankruptcy used for restructuring a company. Many companies have filed chapter 11 and are still around. Delta and Northwest have both filed Chapter 11 and both were stronger because of it. Kmart filed for chapter 11 in 2002, came out of it and 2003 and bought Sears in 2004. Chapter 11 does not mean the end of a company by any means.

The concessions the domestic auto industry are agreeing to will affect their overall situation very little. A bailout is simply a lifeline. Filing for chapter 11 will allow them to renegotiate labor contracts that are way out of hand, close excess dealerships, cut brands and make needed mergers. Once they've done that they can be competitive, come out of chapter 11 and be the auto industry we remember and love.

Lao Tzu said, "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime." It's time our domestic auto industry learned how to fish.

Ryan, Austin TX (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:02 AM)

Instead of bailing out major corporations, why not just give every one who filed a tax return in 2007 $1 million to spend as they like. Not a loan, just give us the money and let's see what happens. It would cost a heckuva lot less than $700 billion!
Michael7 (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 10:06 AM)
**************************

No it wouldn't. Assuming that 150 million people file a tax return, that works out to a handout of $150 TRILLION dollars.

Tim, Harrisburg, PA (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:02 AM)

boomer Consumer, Chicago, writes: Spot on, Pat Huntington in NY!

This economic crisis presents a golden opportunity for social engineering as well as shaping economic policy. Put a cap on all compensation of corporate execs--you want to be a millionaire, fine, . . tax at 99% over a million.

--------------

Should we have our military start goose-stepping during parades then too? Let me guess, your favorite color in our flag is Red.

It never ceases to amaze me how much trust leftists like this guy put into a federal centrailized government. Execs and Unions running the auto makers are doing a bad job, the government will so a worse job. Just look at all these self-serving ego driven nitwits in Congress, you want them to figure out how to run a business?

Patriot Level One (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:03 AM)

I think the auto industry should get some help, but on the other hand, the heads of the companies seem like they cant't run a business correctly, so in order for the auto companies to get help, they should be made to put new people at the top.

JoAnn, Moundsville, WV (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:05 AM)

Food Stamps: '...With so many people out of work, who is going to pay for all the benefits these same liberals are collecting from the government?...'

Gee !!
Maybe we'll have to end the hand outs to Halliburton and Blackwater
End those no bid contracts
Then, we could enacta a windfall profits tax on the Oil companies and let Bush's 'hand outs to the rich' tax cuts expire

That should help

How about ending some of that wasteful military spending
We spend more on war than the rest of the world combined
See what happens when you wrap an American flag around pork barrel spending ?

Hw about ending Presidential pensions ?

MSierra, SF (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:06 AM)

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich: '...Wow, did anyone actually listen to Dodd, Bayh, Casey, and Carper - or hear Moody's economist Mark Zandi say that the collapse of the Detroit 3 would have a "cataclysmic" effect on the economy?

I watched the entire hearing, and sure seems that the Democrats are determined to find a way to do bridge loans...'

I hope you're right, Paul
It would be cataclysmic to let them fail

I think the Republicans have a hidden anti-union agenda

Henry Paulson wants more hand outs to the banks...
If he gets more funding the Democrats HAVE to add a provision that $39 Billion is for bridge loans to the Big Three

But, we do need a Federal monitor to ensure that the Auto companiew change their direction, fuel efficiency, anti pollution and QUALITY PRODUCTS
Detroit has never focused on quality (forget Quality is Job one jungles)
THAT has to change
The UAW DOES have to give back, especially on laid off workers and some pension benefits

But, this CAN be worked out
Now, you see why Michigan voted so heavily against the Republican
They had it right

MSierra, SF (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:13 AM)

"Food Stamps" is right! a total collapse of the US economy will only hurt liberals. Right wing droolers will be fine! Y is us the only smrt peples?

New American Fascist (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:13 AM)

Bad day for the big three how about the backbone of this country the American worker who constantly gets screwed while government caters to those who have screwed ous....Seems that there political war chest will be slim if they dont support wall street and the big three......Well you know i could use a bail out also, 50 grand would help, my chances of getting it is nill while pencil pushers and big money people get everything.....You think that the big three who say they will take a 1 odllar salary is going to justify the loan....believe me what they get in sock options and other benefits is more than there salary We all know what congress is going to do, just making it look good to the american people butr the final result will be to give them the bail out....With the unions and others working people depending on this will mean less votes for there reelection..If the dont...You were elected to represent the people and your working maybe 60 days of the years has created this mess because no one is there to overseeing the country while politicians are running around the world...Well if this is the time for a new party when will it be....Now....I say freeze the spending in washington, icluding political salaries along with the spiff till this mess is straigtened out....Talk about the big three in big vehicles, look at washington....Fed up while the rich get richer the middle class now enters the poor class and the poor have no out...I havent heard from my senators or congressman in ref to whats going on, there the ones who should be addressing the issue in there states and keep ous informed....Guess ther set for the next 2 and 6yrs of employment,, i wish those who are paying there bill could say the same...

Russell Wells, Me. (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:19 AM)

I have to wonder why people want to keep asking if PE Obama is going to get more involved, when we have the dunce in chief who still is the POTUS. OOPS I forgot he went AWOL just like he did for his National Guard Commitment in the 70's!!!! No wonder why we are in the situation we are in FUBAR. Anyone still want to debate about the decider being good for this country?

Terry, Disabled Vet, Des Moines, IA (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:37 AM)

This is all about punishing the unions, which have been skewered and broken down in the past 8 yrs. The banks get a free reign handout with no strings attached and now its let punish the unions and make them squirm. Typical republican trick. I say Obama can't get in office soon enough.

j fl (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:41 AM)

How much bailout money will the big oil and drug companies be asking for?

Ollie (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:44 AM)

"You must have missed the part where Schumer and Dodd berated the automakers and said they didn't trust them to get the job done, with or without the bail out money. Didn't sound too supportive to me. Even Reid says he's no where near having the votes to pass the bill, so that means many Democrats are not unboard."

Tisha - all due respect, you must have missed the part where Dodd said he was prepared to stay in Washington until an aid package was worked out and the many times he underscored the importance of keeping the Big Three alive; where Schumer suggested various ways to expedite getting bridge loans to the automakers; and, also Reid's comment was about getting the money from TARP.

Paul, Pleasant Ridge, Mich. (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:50 AM)

Michael7, I like your idea. Seriously I beleive it would work.

Ollie (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 11:51 AM)

How is it that Wall Street walks, while Detroit gets dogged?

Lee-- Dallas, TX (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 12:07 PM)

someone will have to explain to me how eric holder is somehow tainted because president clinton pardon some people. i mean, after 8 years of gonzo, the attorney purge, political prosecutions, monica goodling, etc, etc, does anyone think eric holder's role in a couple of presidential pardons are really going to be a big deal? the republicans will have some nerve to make a stink about that especially considering their own recent trainwrecks at DOJ

JB (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 12:08 PM)

Eugene Robinson used the most hilarious description of what we are suffering from this morning: Bush Derangement Syndrome. BDS. Love it. Also love that Mika showed up this am on MJ as an adult sans the poof ball on her head and wearing something that looked like baby doll pjs.

LB, Virginia (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 12:11 PM)

Food For Thought on Auto-Bail Out -

We will suffer a national security crisis of epic proportions if the US no longer has a domestic auto industry. We depend on the domestic auto industry to produce military vehicles, and without the auto industry, we will become 100% dependent on forgeign companies to produce our military vehicles. We cannot allow that. Therefore, we MUST bail out the auto industry, but with very real, and severe, conditions placed on the industry to ensure this does not happen again.
Pat Huntington NY (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 9:27 AM)

____________

Pat, the auto industry's link to defense is a very excellent point, and one I dont think enough people (myself included) had thought about.

So, let's take that a step further. Since the military has the most to gain from a continued auto industry, rather than bail the industry out, let's take it out of the hands of corporate executives and gold parachute nonsense, and instead turn it into a department under the Defense Department. Make it a government program, rather than a private business.

Food for thought (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 12:19 PM)

been awake for a few decades now and I remember when companies had $ in the bank and treated employees as their greatest asset, then along came leveraging to the hilt brought mostly by no regulation bushits and cronies who bought good companies sold their assets, gave themselves monstrous bonuses and leveraged everything in site, now every business is mortgaged to the hilt and will fail at any problem much like a house of cards and while both parties participated, it WAS MAINLY RETHUGNUTZ so wake up jill and be honest.
-------------------------------------------------
Sorry Jack, but if you want to look at one of the biggest catalysts of today's economic woes look at the push in the '90s of the Democrats toward home loans to everyone, regardless of their qualifications. Both parties are to blame for their parts in today's problems, but keep your blinders on and keep coming up with your clever 'rethugnutz' lines.

That's a Fact Jill (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 12:23 PM)

Food Stamps: '...With so many people out of work, who is going to pay for all the benefits these same liberals are collecting from the government?...'

Gee !!
Maybe we'll have to end the hand outs to Halliburton and Blackwater
End those no bid contracts
Then, we could enacta a windfall profits tax on the Oil companies and let Bush's 'hand outs to the rich' tax cuts expire

That should help.

MSierra, SF

--------------

Well, that would indeed be welcome news for you and the rest of the unemployed. You'd probably get another 6-12 months of government handouts if that happened.

At least you have a plan. Good luck with that.

Food Stamps (Sent Friday, December 05, 2008 12:37 PM)

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