If the current economic environment wasn't so dire, Bush would have a reason to be unhappy about Obama socializing his stimulus package prior to his inauguration. But given the gravity of the situation, I'm sure Bush is fine with it, and if he's not then TOO DAMNED BAD.

How many slow news days have you had?  Journalists now a days don't really report anything.  What a bunch of lazy bones.  

I remember either hearing or reading about a month ago a statement coming out of someone in power in Israel to the effect that once President-elect Obama becomes President, the blank check days are over for Israel. So I have to wonder if this assault on Gaza is more a reflection on our election rather than their own election. I wish I could remember where I heard that statement, but I thought it was quite telling.

If President Obama doesn't stand up to Israel it will be a major major disappointment. I hear a lot of people saying that Hamas doesn't care about their children and that they are hiding behind them.

But it sure didn't stop Israel from bombing and killing them anyway. Who exactly is it who doesn't care? And Israel is now saying that there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Pictures don't lie. They just don't lie. The 21st Century we are in. Where is the leadership in Israel?

No where. Just like us. Bomb, bomb, bomb. They don't know what else to do. Their goal is to keep Gaza in poverty while they get rich off of stolen land and take our money. London, Hiroshima, Vietnam, Iraq, Warsaw Ghetto. Mighty military. But no compassion. And we're supposed to be the super power of the world? At what price? Same as always I guess.

Oh I forgot. Israel and USA are democracies. Jimmy Carter was right all along. But no one was paying attention to him.

I for one am reassured to have OBAMA in the capitol. I will NOT miss bush and his crew of liars!bush should just lay low,keep his mouth shut( unless he confers with OBAMA first) and just hope these next few weeks pass very quickly.

Bush has nothing to worry about. While in Washington and before his inaugaration Obama will show nothing but class and will confer with Bush on occassion out of respect for the Office. One is reminded of the visit Obama and his wife had with GW and Laura Bush at the whitehouse earlier. The picture of Obama gently placing his hand on GW's shoulder as they entered the Whitehouse was an example of someone who is very professional and who has a tremendous amount of class.  

After Obama arrives in DC let the media look for all the controversy they wish or to try and stir up news to report. The fact is Obama will handle himself as he normally does, cool, calm, collective and professional. Look for something else to report on guys instead of trying to cause a flurry over  nothing.

Pat from Boston ~ Great post.  Exactly so.  Just like us.  Happy New Year, Pat.

p.s. -- Just in case my message on the last thread doesn't post, many thanks to C A for the lovely Christmas message.  I heard you loud and clear.  Some things never change.  May 2009 bring us all peace, and may the new year bring you all the blessings and love that YOU deserve.  

either OBAMA's not doing enough, not getting sufficiently involved (in GAZA, in BLAGO, whatever) or he's running a "parallel administration" across the street.  

it didn't seem to matter that during the beginning of this GAZA crisis BUSH was on vacation as well.  all we saw were images of OBAMA in hawaii, playing golf, or going to a party, or going to the bathroom.  how many times did G.W.B. take a leak while bombs were raining down in palestine?

the country is trying to be positive, trying to stay focused.  but the press can't stand it.  there must be dirt, or dissatisfaction, or scandal somewhere.

pat, Boston,

Typical hilsy supporter, good thing Hamas isn't firing on Boston.  It's easy to marginilize the safety of the Jews huh?

Hamas stops firing on Israel, Israel stops firing on Hamas, Hamas' human shields made of children don't get hit.  SIMPLE, just not simple enough for someone as dumb as her.

I laugh at the suggestion Obama will effect, in anyway, Israel, or our relationship with them.

Pat, Boston, MA;

Some good points Pat. The only question I have for posters here is what would you do if you were the leader of a country that was continuously threatened with rockets and suicide bombers from folks just across your border. Knowing that retaliatory action will most likely increase bad feelings as well as  future attacks rather than decrease the same, yet also knowing you can't stand by and let these attacks continue against your people, what would you do? And let's say diplomacy is not an option, or at least one that has been tried and has failed over and over again.

Anyone care to answer the question?

Does this really matter? The village Idiot will be gone soon!

Oh I forgot. Israel and USA are democracies. Jimmy Carter was right all along. But no one was paying attention to him.
Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Friday

not sure what you're refering to you here and you do seem to be pretty down on our country . . . but i hear you and do not totally disagree, especially about people not listening to Pres. Carter.  I think he is a man unfairly judged in many instances.

The "blank check" quote was in The Daily Star, December 8, 2008:
"The era of the blank check is over," said Martin Indyk, director of the Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution who is considered close to incoming Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. "The Obama administration intends to be engaged, using diplomacy to try to bring about a safer and more peaceful place, that is different from the years of the [George W.] Bush administration," he said on public radio. "President Obama surely will want to work with Israel on this agenda. But there are obligations on both sides [Israel and the Arabs]. Both sides will have to respect these obligations."

Great quote - now we wait to see what happens

Indie woman in Denver - You are a hoot, couldn't agree more.

I am happy Bush is showing respect to Obama.  Now if he would just go away I'd feel alot better.  I don't trust Shrub and the Dick.  They are two looney's that can't relate at all to the people.  The arrogance and disrespect I have felt from those two is disgusting.  Sorry, but I had to vent.  The last 8 years have been painful.  I have hope that with Obama/Biden we as a nation can get back on track.

I am sure this won't post, it has been several months since I tuned in here at FR because I couldn't take the pandering any longer, This A.M. I read Fox news- all about the damage Hamas is doing to Israel-striking within Nuke regions-vowing deadly Wrath against the Jews etc- then MSNBC was all about the children killed on the Gaza strip and the "relentless attacks by Israel on Hamas" WHO DO YOU THINK STARTED THIS- Who is hiding behind those children and those schools- what is going on!!! Israel is smaller than New Jersey!! how can you think they are trying to take anything away from the Arabs/Muslims - someone is missing something here and it appears to be the truth

Been away from this board for a while and I see nothing has changed....you all got your manchild in the white house and STILL have to try and bash Bush.....so much hate and you don't even know why...Obummer is already showing his double-standards and flip-flopping....this will be the worst year ever after Jan. 20th....God Help Us All

That new beginning needs to start now.
www.choosejesusrightnow.com

Although I am not a big fan of the Bush regime, I also realize that the gray hair he has isn't because he is a non caring man.  I do believe that when all is said and done, Mr. Bush played his cards the way he thought they should have been played.  I believe he did the best he could with the advisors he had.  He takes the blame for his administration, but let's try to remember that he is a human being and there for he makes mistakes!  Find me a president who is perfect.......can't find one.  Obama isn't perfect either and his mistakes are coming.  I pray that God stands with Mr. Obama and helps him during his administration, but we need to stop bulldozing Bush.  His administration is almost over and we must fix the problems don't dwell on them!

Please members of the media, including Chuck Todd, find news to report and stop acting as if you are the best qualified politicians. If you think you are, then run for office. The soon to be president has a right to be in Washington and by so doing will offer advice to the current President(agh!) before he opens his mouth.

Pat,
    Right again.  As usual.

Trish, California, The days of investigative reporting are over. Geraldo Rivera killed the investigative reporting when he opened Al Capone’s vault. Not since Woodward and Bernstein has anyone dared or had the access to do in depth reporting.  The sources have dried up and no one has the ability to keep a story unpublished as long as they did.  Todays news is quick hit headlines with no in depth or follow up reporting.  

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL, Move out of the neighbor hood or take the law into your own hands. If your neighbor kept throwing rocks at your house what would you do. Either you move out or break the guys nose. The action you take depends on what you are willing to do, capable of doing or what consequences you are willing to suffer. Morality is not a option in that situation.

I see your back Running Scared.  Why don't you point out all the wonderful things Bush/Cheney did?  I know of a handful, but would like to hear your take on the freaking Bush/Cheney years.

What do you think it will be like to meet waves of boo's everywhere you go, except for audiences stocked with brainless military meatheads or brainless Christian fundamentalist meatheads ?(not saying, of course, that they're all meatheads)--welcome to BUSH WORLD.  In the meantime, does anyone know if it's illegal for Americans to throw their shoes over the White House fence?... like we could have a contest to see if anyone can get a shoe all the way to the White House steps... just a thought to occupy us before Jan 20th.

To those who think bombing Hamas is the answer, I have another solution to the problem.  Instead of just mass killing with bombs (which Hamas bombs are not effective in the same manner as Isreal's) why not have the Isreali army use covert operations and infiltrate Hamas and kill and nutrilize them in that manner?  I don't approve of Isreal using bombs to kill people because innocent people die, collateral damage is not right period!  There is a method of nutrilizing your enemy without bomb, bomb, bomb.

I don't so much have a comment as I have a few questions....first, is it not still illegal to deface currency in this country, and second, if it is still illegal, then why am I seeing a hundred Obama coins being hawked every other commmerical, considering that he's NOT the president, and WILL NOT be until he's sworn in on the 20th of this month....so how does his face being imprinted on federal currency not constitute a crime?  Can someone please enlighten me.....much abliged!

The only question I have for posters here is what would you do if you were the leader of a country that was continuously threatened with rockets and suicide bombers from folks just across your border. Knowing that retaliatory action will most likely increase bad feelings as well as  future attacks rather than decrease the same, yet also knowing you can't stand by and let these attacks continue against your people, what would you do? And let's say diplomacy is not an option, or at least one that has been tried and has failed over and over again.

Anyone care to answer the question?
C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009
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 I would begin by questioning the practice of bombing people and forcing them out of their homes. I would question the sanity of people who somehow believe they have the right of  robbing people of their land and resources and expecting no retaliation after you have occupied the land that belongs to others and do everything in your power to marginalize and humiliate the rightful lands of Palestine.

My question is if your land was stolen, if your children were murdered and your homes bulldozed would you slink off quietly into the night or would you use whatever meager resources you had at your disposal to fight against it?
Perhaps if the U.S. was giving 30 billion dollars a year of our money to the Palestinians like they do to the Israeli to fund their Army and arsenals perhaps things would be different.

TEC-spring-TX

I hear you TEC:

But would it not be appropriate that if you decided to stay in the neighborhood requiring breaking your neighbor's nose that you would somehow find a way to get your neighobor's kids out of the way of your punch?

The thing is that killing the Hamas terrorists is not an issue with the Palestinian people, not really. Where their hatred increases for Israel is when one of their kids, or their spouse, becomes a victim of the colateral damage.

This problem for Israel is the same as it is for the U.S. in Iraq. You cannot win over or defeat an enemy when your actions result in colateral damage of innocents. Both the U.S. and Israel have to learn that mass bombing sorties or outright invasions do not win over the hearts and minds of those living in the areas that are bombed or invaded. In fact, such actions in the end create and increase the hatred for the so-called liberators.

Stealth and special teams must be developed and used to infiltrate and to take out those participating in terrorism. Intelligence has to improve allowing one to locate and to infiltrate various terrorists organizations and their members. Then and only then can the colateral damage be minimized and will help to maintin neutrality amoung the innocents caught in the middle.

I recall a quote from General Howe just after surrendering to Washington's forces at York.  "How could it have come to this, how could such a rabble have defeated the greatest military in the world". The answer is simple. Because the invasion of the colonies by large and well trained British forces caused too much colateral damage and thereby  inflamed sentiment against the British and their forces. Under this strategy the Birtish could never have won the hearts and minds of the American people. Never.

I'm not a big Bush supporter by **any** means, but I've always felt that he was a decent (if not terribly deep or bright) person, and I think this last chapter of his White House stay -- the cooperation he has given to the incoming administration -- reflects that decency and is something we can genuinely be grateful for.  We need everything possible going for us, and secrets and power-struggles and snubs between the outgoing and incoming administrations would be more harmful than usual.  It's a good note to end on.

Pat, Boston-
Google Earth the Gaza strip.  There is nowhere for Hamas to hide without involving innocents.  It's like shooting fish in a barrell for the Israelies. (while 'Googleing', take a look at the lush, well irrigated, fertil fields on the Israel side, and look at all the squalor and closely packed buildings in Gaza.  An interesting contrast, to say the least)

Some good points Pat. The only question I have for posters here is what would you do if you were the leader of a country that was continuously threatened with rockets and suicide bombers from folks just across your border.C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 12:06 PM)

_____
You asked Pat, Boston this question, but were unclear on part of the scenario:  Was the land your country is being threatened from once THEIRS? Was it 'given' to you in the realatively recent past by a united group of foreigners?

Both Isreal and Hamas is wrong. Isreal riddle me this how do you fight a terrorist war by conventional means? Stop being stupid Isreal, the world is getting tired of your nonsense.
I only hope that the "Blank Check" statement is right. Enough is Enough. Killing is wrong for whatever reason.

Buzz:

I did not ask for arguments to justify the reasons for the violence by either side. I simply asked what you would do if the leader of a people who were threatened by rockets and suicide bombers from your neighbors across the bordrer. You used my question to criticize Israel for defending land you apparently feel does not belong to them. I was not looking for criticism. We have plenty of that from both sides. I was looking for an immediate solution that everyone says one side or the other should initiate. But the question is, what is that solution?

That is part of the problem. Many, including bloggers here, can post numerous criticisms against one side or the other or to try and justify what one side or the other is doing (as you have done). But none can suggest a legitimate solution. So again, what would you do?

"If your neighbor kept throwing rocks at your house what would you do."
TEC-spring-TX (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 1:58 PM)
________
Uh, could you have meant to say "if the neighbor kept throwing rocks at HIS house that YOU moved into, uninvited by HIM"?

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Friday, January 02, 2009 2:46 PM)
I thought about that aspect of the so-called innocents, but Hammas is an elected governing body elected and supported by the people in Gaza. As soon as you break your neighbors nose does his son resent you and then becomes your enemy? Has the innocents been part and taken part in throwing rocks? I hear the others points about creating the enemy when you fight back. Were there any innocent people in Germany and Japan in WWII? Any conflict has unintended consequences, so the best answer is to avoid conflict if possible. When you refuse to move, rocks will eventually hit you. If you just throw rocks back, the rock throwing escalates. Therefore, you have to really discourage your neighbor’s behavior and breaking his nose is the first step. If he has friends, who are willing to join him then you may be in trouble.  In a conflict as long as each side is willing to fight to the death, then death will be the result. The Gaza situation is fight to the death.
 

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