First thoughts: Stimulus winners, losers

Posted: Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:16 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: First Thoughts

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** Stimulus winners and losers: For the fourth-consecutive day, President Obama hits the road to sell his stimulus -- this time visiting Caterpillar in Peoria, IL, before heading to Springfield to commemorate Abraham Lincoln’s 200th birthday. But today’s campaign stop is mostly superfluous, especially after congressional negotiators struck a final deal on the now-$789 billion spending measure. The House could vote on the legislation either today or tomorrow, with the Senate soon following to get the bill to the president’s desk by Monday. The obvious winner here, of course, is Obama, who will get the first big victory of his four-week-old presidency. Other winners are Collins/Snowe/Specter (who proved that they will control what passes in the 111th Congress), Harry Reid (who got the 60-plus votes he needed), Joe Lieberman (who helped behind the scenes with Collins), White House aide Phil Schiliro (who played an unsung role on the Hill), the Republican Party (which demonstrated unity after its big losses in November), and No.2 House Republican Eric Cantor (who raised his profile during the debate, although he took a BIG hit yesterday for that profane AFSCME video his office released). The losers, in our opinion, are Nancy Pelosi (some House priorities lost out in the end) and governors (who didn’t get all the money they wanted and will have to make some tough cuts before a re-election year).

Video: Sen. Susan Collins, R-Maine, and Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., talk about the Senate’s vote to pass the stimulus bill.

*** In the long run…: But those are the winners and losers in the short term. In the long run, we won’t really know who won this debate until 2010 or even 2012. Indeed, the eventual state of the economy -- no matter if the stimulus played a real role or not -- will be the deciding factor here. If the economy begins to pick up steam before the midterms, the Democrats will look like geniuses. If not, Obama is going to have a race on his hands in 2012. So the stimulus was a political gamble for the White House. But ask yourself what you’d rather inherit: a booming economy that could go nowhere but down, or a struggling economy that could -- and we stress “could” -- go nowhere but up by 2010?

*** Rove’s two cents:

In his Wall Street Journal column today, Karl Rove applauds the way congressional Republicans played their hand during the stimulus, saying that they were smart to point out politically unpopular spending provisions; that they were “gracious” in talking with the Obama White House (really?); and that they were wise to propose alternative solutions (tax cuts). But, echoing our comment above, he also issues this warning to his party: “[I]f Republicans predict economic doom, they will overplay their hand. The Democratic stimulus will slow recovery, but not stop it. Recessions don't last forever and, if history is a guide, sometime late this year or early next the economy will rebound on its own. When that happens, Democrats will argue that their untargeted, permanent spending actually revived the economy.” Yet perhaps the bigger risk for Republicans is this: Does the president that Rove worked for end up getting blamed for the current economic climate?

*** A Few other White House victories: In addition to the stimulus, Congress also made some movement yesterday on a few of Obama’s stalled nominees. The full Senate approved Bill Lynn (the ex-lobbyist) to be deputy Defense secretary; a committee finally voted to send Labor nominee Hilda Solis to the full Senate; and the Senate Intelligence Committee also moved to approve Leon Panetta’s nomination to head the CIA.

*** Bobby Jindal’s big night: Republicans yesterday tapped Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal -- one of the party’s rising stars and a potential presidential candidate in 2012, 2016, or beyond (he’s just 37!) -- to deliver the GOP’s response to Obama’s congressional address on Feb. 24. But as NBC’s Abby Livingston points out, giving your party’s response to a State of the Union (or other big address) hasn’t always been a stepping stone to bigger and better things politically. Some past responders: Bob Dole (who lost the ’96 presidential election), Christine Todd Whitman (out of politics), J.C. Watts (out of politics), Bill Frist (out of politics, decided to not run for president), Dick Gephardt (lost ’04 bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, out of politics), Gary Locke (out of politics), and Tom Daschle (defeated in ’04, out of politics).

Countdown to NJ GOP primary: 110 days
Countdown to VA Dem primary: 117 days
Countdown to Election Day 2009: 264 days
Countdown to Election Day 2010: 628 days

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Comments

Can anyone tell me why they voted for their Republican Representative or Senator? Do you feel any “buyer’s remorse”? Do you feel abandoned? Do you think you were misled about their true intentions?

Were we Democrats as angry and loud when we were not in power as the GOP is today? Were we obnoxious in our unrest? Were we really those bad, unholy ‘Liberals’?

Why is it I feel on my worst day as a Democrat, I am better than a modern day Republican is on their best day?

Chuck, WA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:24 AM)

Of course the economy will turn around by the midterms. It's the natural business cycle and everyone knows it. It will have nothing to do with either this spendulus bill or the economic brilliance of Democrats.

Mary Jo (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:24 AM)

FR:

I have to disagree with you all on a number of points in today's opening post.

1. How can the GOP come out of this as a winner in any sense? They might have griped enough to shave less than 1% off the final bill, but in the end, they 1)couldn't stop the bill 2)lost three of their critical senators to the other side on the issue, and 3)look very much like a party of "no" to the public. AND, on top of all of that, three of their senators, who now hold the keys to the passage of any senate bill, are not guaranteed to side with their own party anyway! So, how does this equal a win for them at all?

2. Under what circumstances would Bush NOT be blamed for the economic mess we are in? the public already has - see 2008 election cycle

Joe - STL (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:24 AM)

Two new fascinating Senate polls were released yesterday: Democrat Paul Hodes is well positioned to pick-up New Hampshire's Senate seat, and Senator Arlen Specter's popularity among Democrats suggests he will be very hard to beat in the general election. Link: http://campaigndiaries.com/2009/02/12/senate-polls

Dan, NY (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:26 AM)

**Rove’s two cents: In his Wall Street Journal column today, Karl Rove applauds the way congressional Republicans played their hand during the stimulus, saying that they were smart to point out politically unpopular spending provisions; that they were “gracious” in talking with the Obama White House (really?); and that they were wise to propose alternative solutions (tax cuts). But, echoing our comment above, he also issues this warning to his party: “[I]f Republicans predict economic doom, they will overplay their hand. The Democratic stimulus will slow recovery, but not stop it. Recessions don't last forever and, if history is a guide, sometime late this year or early next the economy will rebound on its own. When that happens, Democrats will argue that their untargeted, permanent spending actually revived the economy.” Yet perhaps the bigger risk for Republicans is this: Does the president that Rove worked for end up getting blamed for the current economic climate?**

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You're kidding, right? Does anyone still actually pay attention to what Rove has to say?

Hey, "Turd Blossom", shouldn't you be responding to that Congressional subpoena?

Pete - Albany, NY (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:29 AM)

Capitalism is my favorite "ism". What I like about it is it rewards initiative, competition, and hard work. Like all "isms", it too has its achilles heel. GREED. Not only is it a sin, but a destroyer of Capitalism. Yesterday I saw some of the faces of those who put Capitalism on life-support. Eight bank CEO's who were more interested in destroying the housing market and getting bonuses for greed sake, than caring for the common good. These CEO's are not alone for there are those in Washington who opposed regulation. People like Alan Greenspan, Phil Gramm, Bush 43, John McCain, John Boehner, Lynsey Graham, Mitch McConnell turned a blind eye to what was going on on Wall Street.

Can Capitalism be taken off life-support? Yes, only through the regulation of greed can capitalism become strong again.

Conservative right-wing nuts put us in this economic crisis and they, like the bankers, must swallow the bitter pill of regulation.

Ron Indiana (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:29 AM)

Stimulus winners and losers:

Winners:

- Obama, Pelsoi, Reid and all the other socialists
- Government workers - no layoffs or frozen salaries for them
- Big Government
- Socialism
- The Nanny State
- Illegal Aliens (no more e-Verify)

Losers:

- Hard working Americans
- Private Businesses
- Taxpayers
- Capitalism
- American Individualism

Tali Bande, CT (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:29 AM)

The repugnant ones are the big losers on the stimulus package as they defied the will of the people and are going to pay for it in 2010 as we Dems make sure the country doesn't forget their perfidy anytime soon.

Score Obama 1 Lush Limburger Zero! Yeah we defeated the big jerky boy of the radio world and his clueless band of naysayers to progress.

The Dems gave up too much to gain 3 lousy votes from the loser republic party. The Dems need to have more backbone now that they are in charge of Washington DC.

Prison for Criminals Bush and Cheney!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:31 AM)

I thought this article trite yesterday in discussing the "political losers" - Bobby Jindal's big night. The fact is that the last three to give the rebuttal have had major surges in their careers and you could just as easily argue that Dole was a dinosaur when he did it. I am still confused about Christine Todd Whitman as she certainly had a brilliant future ahead of her prior to trying to work in the Bush Administration - perhaps she is part of that "political capital" that he ruinously spent through?
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‘…Sorry, but the objection is overruled. A-roid stands.’ Jackson, Seattle (Sent Wednesday, February 11, 2009 10:35 AM)
^^^^^^^^^
I agree with you, Jackosn. He’s a tool. But I object to the ‘journalists’ calling him a tool. That was my point. I am not offended by any comments posted about his ‘tool shed-edness’. I just think the journalists are responsible for raising the discourse, as I thought their stated policy was. I am all over the bashing of those who deserve it and I’ve certainly taken my lumps. I was just expecting more from the professionals.

^^^^^^^^^^^
‘…unlike you I own my own deal and pay my taxes quarterly thank you...and I still aint paying for your kids insurance’ Rick, NC (Sent Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:07 PM)

Stunningly stupid post. Pretty much what I’ve come to expect from you, Rick. If you think YOUR healthcare costs are not a direct result of those who are uninsured, your aren’t just naïve; you, sir, are a moron. I bet in all your money grubbing, Scroogy ways, you’ve never really factored the ‘hidden costs’ of living in a society where government doesn’t take care of the least among us. I bet you call yourself a Christian and you almost never cheat at anything. At least you’ve never been caught, right?
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We like to sit back and smugly act like "We're Americans, everything we do is smart and better!"; but did anyone catch Zakaria's article in Newsweek about how Canada has surpassed expectations and played their own economic cards superbly?

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183670

See what happens when we mock our neighbors? They outperform us. Just part of our stunningly stupid strategy to rule the world, I guess.

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:33 AM)

You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em,
Know when to walk away and know when to run.

*** Rove’s two cents: In his Wall Street Journal column today, Karl Rove applauds the way congressional Republicans played their hand during the stimulus, saying that they were smart to point out politically unpopular spending provisions; that they were “gracious” in talking with the Obama White House (really?); and that they were wise to propose alternative solutions (tax cuts). But, echoing our comment above, he also issues this warning to his party: “[I]f Republicans predict economic doom, they will overplay their hand. The Democratic stimulus will slow recovery, but not stop it. Recessions don't last forever and, if history is a guide, sometime late this year or early next the economy will rebound on its own. When that happens, Democrats will argue that their untargeted, permanent spending actually revived the economy.” Yet perhaps the bigger risk for Republicans is this: Does the president that Rove worked for end up getting blamed for the current economic climate?
_____________________
Has the "architect" or "genius" (whatever) Karl Rove looked at the polls recently? The country is mad as hell at the Republican Party.

And it is plain for everyone to see that they do not -do not - want this stimulus package to work.

Sometimes we as a country need to take a gamble. Corporations do it. Professional sports teams do it. Actors do it. Politicians do it. Musicians do it. If you don't, you lose.

Conservatism is for the rich. Everyone knows it. They would never dream of gambling on us, the American people. They think only they have the answers. Well they don't. And everyone knows it.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:34 AM)

Rove: "[S]aying that they [Republicans]were smart to point out politically unpopular spending provisions; that they were “gracious” in talking with the Obama White House (really?); "

Yeah, really. The Republicans didn't personally attack anyone. Unlike Obama who attacked anyone, anything, and anybody that even looked like they opposed this huge government boon-doggle. The Republicans talked about ideas and left the attacks to the Democrats and Obama. It was a pathetic display by Obama and the Democrats.

Patti Gest, Texas (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:35 AM)

Arlen Specter may be a fool; but he is a 'winning' fool. He has managed to hitch his wagon to the winning side of a plethora of issues.

Didn't realize until today that he was the 'author' of the Magic Bullet theory in JFK's assassination. I would never vote for him; but he does manage to pragmatically see the writing on the wall and get on the 'popular' side of things.

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:36 AM)

Under what circumstances would Bush NOT be blamed for the economic mess we are in? the public already has - see 2008 election cycle
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The economic crisis (which, by the way, is not worse than the recession of the early '80s, despite what you hear), has been decades in coming. Whenever I hear Obama talk about 'the failed economic policies of the last 8 years' I have to wonder if he considers pushing low income, no credit folks towards home ownership might be a 'failed economic policy.'
At some point, people are going to have to stop blaming Bush for everything.

Jack, Dallas (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:36 AM)

It seems a bit premature to try to speculate on the winners and losers, FR. I think that we should all take a deep breath and see what happens with the stimulus and the Geitner plan for the banks before anyone other than the President is annointed.

Note also that, the President said straight up that if things DID not improve in the next few years that we would have "a new president". Mathews a real pol wonk said he had never heard a polticitian talk that way before.

We really have a new team and a new style in the WH these days folks. Give eveyone some room to work and let's get the country moving again, W/O all the instant analysis. There is NOT yet any data to support that analysis except the hot air that the chattering class expells all the time.

Ed, FW, TX (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:38 AM)

You're giving rove too much credit if you think his advice is worth two cents! Just look at how he did with his plan of generational control by the repugnant ones of our government. He single handedly brought the Demcorats back into power with his idiotic petty partisan politics.

You know Fox News must be changing into a medical facility, an insane asylum for the mentally deranged. You look at their lineup of comedians and there is nothing but braindead fools. From Billo the Unculture Clown to Geraldo to Sean Insanity to Glenn Henpecked to that dizzy blond bimbo to Michelle Malkin their whole lineup is filled with the filth of humanity. The only miscreant missing is Lush Limburger.

Why don't the conservatives take up a collection to get these deranged nutjobs some mental health care? Oh I guess they'd have to make it a big collection to ensure all of the conservative extremists got reprogrammed back to normality.

Fox has gone Mental and Postal!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:38 AM)

'...Joe Lieberman (who helped behind the scenes with Collins)...'

I didn't like Obama's forgiveness of Lieberman after the campaign
It looks like a good decision in the light of day
Unity and forgiveness works better that revenge

'...The losers, in our opinion, are Nancy Pelosi (some House priorities lost out in the end)...'

You're reaching
Nancy's priorities were Obama's priorities
Nancy was gracious in compromising and getting the House Dems to go along with the compromise

Thank You, Nancy Pelosi !!
You've done a great job !!

The REAL LOSER: 'Bi Partisanship'
Hopefully, Obama has learned not to pander to Republicans or to trust McConJob and the Boner

Run a DEMOCRATIC Adminsitration with DEMOCRATIC policies !!

MSierra, SF (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:39 AM)

Chuck, to answer your questions; I'm proud of the Republicans, they again are beginning to representing conservative ideals, and your last statement, I think you're still angry.

Ron, Dallas Texas (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:40 AM)

The bottom line is that Obama got the stimulus through, and the GOP never brought forth a valid alternative. The public wants something accomplished, so the party of "no" is a big loser.

And Obama's already turning the recession around; Jobless claims down, retails sales up last month.

http://www.political-buzz.com/

matt (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:41 AM)

If there are any lingering thoughts that President Obama is weak and a pushover, then those thoughts should be vanquished after this week. He showed us that he can be tough, unrelenting, steadfast and conciliatory all at once. The Stimulus passage is a major victory for him, especially when last week the media and pundits were saying he was politically injured by the Just Say No Republicans.

Gotta admire the measure of this man!

J. Ellis, Virginia (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:41 AM)

We Blame Bush for the Econimics of the Obama Administration / thats like blaming Jimmy Carter for the Penut Poisen. Lets bring Jimmy "penut head" Carter before congress.

Bush was president LAST YEAR - Even in his last months he had Obama helping to direct the government.

Obama had Bush ask for the TARP money!!!

Obama - the Pay-to-Play president.

His direction changes with the opinion polls. Even if you disagreed with Bush, and I did frequently, at least he had a back bone. Obama is a spineless worm that only got elected because he's black and we felt bad for the past sins of our country.

That said, I truly do pray for him and hope that he will make the correct decisions for all of us.

I am still waiting for the Change - I hope that spending the most money in history on his buddies pork projects is not the change we are supposed to believe in.

The Democrat Putz (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:42 AM)

Can anyone tell me why they voted for their Republican Representative or Senator? Do you feel any “buyer’s remorse”? Do you feel abandoned? Do you think you were misled about their true intentions
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Chuck in WA, I'll answer your question, though I've found it hard to have an intelligent discourse on this site without folks getting bitterly partisan or chiming in with platitudes. I'm a lifelong Republican who voted for Jim Webb in 2006, because he campaigned as a Blue Dog Democrat and that appealed to me as a fiscal conservative. I feel a tremendous sense of buyer's remorse now, particularly since he won a very close race in the state of Virginia. I sent him an email the other day telling him how much I regretted my vote and how my husband and I looked forward to making the max contribution to his Republican opponent in 2012. So yes, I feel misled.

Elizabeth, Short Pump VA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:42 AM)

From a USA Today article printed on 10/30/2008:

“[In an interview Thursday with MSNBC's Rachel Maddow] asked why he mostly limits his criticism to the policies of President Bush and presidential candidate John McCain, both Republicans, Obama said if he starts with the premise that he's only speaking to Democrats, he can't attract Republicans who are disillusioned with where the party has gone.

What's he's interested in, he says, is "building a working majority for change."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Congratulations to President Obama and the cooperating members of the House and the Senate.

America, we just witnessed the first baby steps towards “a working majority for change”.

President Obama has a vision for our country, and if we avoid distractions and assist our elected representatives to do the same, there is a great deal we can accomplish for the American family in the next four years.
______________________________________

I have a classic First Read “Just Askin’ “ of my own:

Why was the leading criticism of President Obama’s push for the Stimulus package “Why are we moving so fast, let’s take some time to talk about it” when we are losing 500,000+ jobs A MONTH, but . . .

When Treasury Secretary Geithner gives a broad outline of his plan to restructure the banking industry and all the bad loans they have made for the past decade, suddenlty the problem is “Where are the details? What’s taking so long?”

Isn’t that a little contradictory?

Didn’t we have quite a few problems with the rushed way the initial TARP money was allocated for one thing, then used for something else, and still nobody knows who got the money and what they did with it?

Sometimes it seems like many critics of the Obama Administration just basically taking the opposite side of what President Obama proposes for the fun of it.

Nashville_fan (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:43 AM)

Jack: We don't blame Bush for everything - just everything that affected our country over the past 8 years.

Bottom Line: The busk stops at the oval office. Ergo, Bush is responsible for it all.

Joe - STL (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:43 AM)

Yeah idiot boy eric cantor did raise his profile as one of the most repugnant of the repugnant ones. Did anyone notice how his and Boehner's mommy's dressed them the same the other day for a newser? How about his dimwitted aide who sent out a disgusting AFSCME prank ad and had to apologize for it. Better believe that AFSCME is going to target this jerky boy for defeat next election.

It is so much fun watching the republic party self destruct. So many limp wristed conservative nutjobs whining about anything and everything and lying to say the truth ain't so. They now call the bushwhacker a buffon on tv thinking that they can escape his legacy of failure which they were complicit in aiding and abetting. Nope the bushwhacker will be the 800 pound gorilla permanently stuck to their backs for many election cycles to come.

Prison for Criminals Bush and Cheney!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:45 AM)

Your right Jack, the recession has been decades in coming. Thank you Ronald Reagan. This is called Reagonomics! The trickle down effect, hows it working for you????

cindy, Las Vegas, Nv (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:47 AM)

Conservatism is for the rich. Everyone knows it
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That's just not true. I think you'll find a lot more conservatives in rural communities in Oklahoma than anywhere else, and the majority of those folks are hardly rich. Conservatives want a government that stays out of their lives and wants people to take responsibility for their own lives, families, and fortunes.

Erica (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:47 AM)

The failed last 8 years - congress takes and spends all money - Wasn't Obama in the Senate then - Oh thats right, he only voted "present".

Notice how oil and gas is and will be going up again since he stoped any and all new drilling for oil in our country. I guess he's waiting to drill our oil until after its no longer needed. Smart Play

Obamanation

This Kenya National will be the destruction of the free democracy previously called the United States of America.

The Democrat American (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:47 AM)

I would never vote for him; but he does manage to pragmatically see the writing on the wall and get on the 'popular' side of things.
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And after all, that's what we want in our leaders, someone who goes with the crowd after checking a poll.

Principles be damned, I'm going with the poll numbers! (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:48 AM)

“…Nashville_fan: Help me out with something. As usual, I’m very confused. A wealthy wage earner makes a certain salary and pays 39 per cent of that in federal income taxes. The progression is 1) earn wage 2) give up 39% to federal taxes…” Richard, Washington State (Sent Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:29 PM)
Richard, the fact is – no wealthy person is giving up 39%. Get real. If you are, Geithner must be doing your taxes. There are plenty of tax shelters that wealthy people pay other people to figure out for them. Often a wealthy person actually pays somewhere less than 18% (http://www.smartmoney.com/breaking-news/on/?story=ON-20090130-000642-1523). Start your assumptions based in reality and then pretzel yourself back to “Republicans good and deserving/ Democrats bad and unworthy”. I especially like that you acknowledge your confusion. AND I am really loving the tongue in cheek meter - mine is about 63% on this one.

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:50 AM)

Why is it I feel on my worst day as a Democrat, I am better than a modern day Republican is on their best day?
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Why would anyone ever feel like they're 'better' than anyone else? Just because someone has views that differ from yours, Chuck, it doesn't make them 'worse' than you. It means that they have different principles than you, but they value them no less than you value yours.

Claire (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:51 AM)

Ron Indiana: '...it too has its achilles heel. GREED. Not only is it a sin, but a destroyer of Capitalism...'

I think the two Achille's heels of capitalism in America is materialism
The lack of any values other than materialism
The other is individualism
Looking out for number one
Looking at the lack of interest in community and of our own government, this seems clear

Still, we have some reform and a new administration
Hopefully, intelligent regulation is on the way

MSierra, SF (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:52 AM)

I got a real laugh out of the story from Tennessee where the Democrats stole the majority in the Senate. The repugnant ones all backed one of their own but one of them cast a vote for himself and then so did the 49 Democrats which gave him the victory. The republic party kicked him out so now the Democrats have the majority in the Senate in TN when they had a slim minority.

I got an even bigger laugh out of Virginia where the repugnant ones were about to turn a Dem to the dark side but some dimbulb decided to twitter the news of their premature victory which the Dems caught wind of and talked some sense into their potential Benedict Arnold. Yet again the dems foiled the repugnant ones.

I mean are the repugnant ones not the Keystone Kops of politics? Hah Hah Losers!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:52 AM)

In the "stimulus" the government WILL DECIDE senior health care. Yes, folks, the government wants to decide what medications you can take, which are too expensive even though you need them, and ultimately how long you live.

Pelosi and Obama want total control over your very lives. The maximum dictatorship in a government run by arrogant control freaks. No respect for seniors. The shorter your life the less you will recieve in benefits. And it won't stop there. Killing off the elderly isn't very nice, Mr. Obama. In Japan the elderly are respected and taken care of. That's not the plan the "stimulus" carries inside it's 600+ pages. The "Stimulus" is pro-left wing, pro-abortion, pro-tax hikes and pro-government control over health care, especially seniors.

The time bomb that is the "Stimulus" is a design to re-define America's signature values, the world according to Pelosi and Obama. They simply want you to be totally dependent upon government. You can't do it alone. Big brother HAS to help you, right?

They will be in your bank accounts and everywhere else. This is only the beginning. Sound the alarm.
The problem isn't the economy. It's Pelosi, Reid, stooly Barney Frank and Barack Obama (I never refer to him as president) exploiting America with never-ending lies about everything under the sun to scare the public into thinking the government is the answer. Doom and gloom talk to make you give in.
Don't buy Obama's B.S., trust only yourself. It's the American people that run this country, not some big-eared arrogant aberation who has no integrity and no judge of character.

Palomino (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:53 AM)

"The losers, in our opinion, are Nancy Pelosi (some House priorities lost out in the end) and governors (who didn’t get all the money they wanted and will have to make some tough cuts before a re-election year)."

You forgot some other losers: the people in the states that have been denied emergency funding they need to keep "socialist" stuff like the fire and police departments running. The biggest losers of all will be the people whose houses burn down because the short-handed fire department couldn't get there in time and the people who are victimized by crime because there weren't enough cops on the beat in their neighborhood.

It's pretty disgusting that FirstRead lists the Republican obstructionists as "winners." If these zombies marching in lockstep win, America loses.

Media Skeptic (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:54 AM)

"At some point, people are going to have to stop blaming Bush for everything." - Jack, Dallas
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's hard to forget when the stench of his policies is till reeking all around the globe Jack.

It is going to take longer than 3 weeks to clean up the mess that President Bush and his friends in Congress made. There are piles of poop from sea to shining sea Jack.

After 8 years of incompetence and arrogance, don't expect anybody to forget anytime soon. This is where that "personal responsibility" that the Republican Party used to stand for comes in.

Nashville_fan (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:56 AM)

"...At some point, people are going to have to stop blaming Bush for everything." Jack, Dallas (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:36 AM)

Maybe so, Jack; but I'm not there yet. and the reason this Recession is worse than the 80's is that with interest rates already bottomed out and consumers and banks LEVERAGED, there is nowhere to climb 'up' to. Our National debt is greater than our GDP and we have nowhere to go to obtain liquidity. In the 80's, rates could be adjusted to boost or stimulate; we don't have that luxury now.

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:56 AM)

Susan Collins and Oly Snowe are safe for re-election being from Maine. Some of the dumbest people in the world live in that state, and they'll vote for those two nitwits any chance they can get.

Pennsylvania is another story. Specter will be challenged from the Right during the primary. He might have signed his political death notice by supporting this bill.

Carole B., Toledo, Ohio (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:58 AM)

I don't know whether Senator Specter monitors his emails, etc. but I did send one to him saying that I would never consider voting for him if he voted against the stimulus package. And I have voted for him in the past. Maybe other Pennsylvanians spoke up.

Steeler Fan Pittsburgh, PA (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:00 AM)

We are already starting to hear grumbling about Collins/Snowe/Specter from the Republicans who consider these three to be RINOs. Conservitives are already talking about primary challengers. The push for pure conservative orthodoxy within the republican ranks is something that should make every democrat smile.

Dave, Houston (big oil) Texas (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:00 AM)

Media Septic --> You forgot some other losers: the people in the states that have been denied emergency funding they need to keep "socialist" stuff like the fire and police departments running. The biggest losers of all will be the people whose houses burn down because the short-handed fire department couldn't get there in time and the people who are victimized by crime because there weren't enough cops on the beat in their neighborhood.

==============

You wonder sometimes about people that write this stuff. The very first thing states are going to cut if they don't get their money is police and fire? The first thing? It won't be the parks, or the Pool Table for Punks programs that will get cut. It won't be delaying fixing that 10 mile piece of road for a couple of more years. It won't be the canceling of the new county office building that isn't really need anyway. No, first thing to go is police and fire.

Maybe if that happens it's because the Democratic hacks that run the states don't have a clue about what they are doing.

Dumb is as Dumb Does (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:03 AM)

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0209/18761.html

This is an OUTARGE. The GOP wants their own country and their president to FAIL. As much as I and many HATEd BUSH i never wanted him to fail because his failures have affected the whole world.
Go to hell GOP

Nj the investigator (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:03 AM)

3 bedroom, 2 bath ranch style home for sale. Call for appointment. Many others also available. Live in sunny S.W. Florida and drink fresh orange juice daily.

Broke in Fort Myers, Florida...thanks "G.W." (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:05 AM)

Karl,,,,, please keep running your lips,every time you do more and more people will choose to leave your out of touch party, supporters form the south will be all you will have.You will along with Bush/Chaney will be responsibly for the death of the GOP,you Rush,Hannity,Palin,and the neo-cons will be history,your party will be meeting in high school gyms,and there will be lots of empty chairs,along with empty heads like the one perched on your shoulders.Yes Bush will go down as the reason for the mess,it happen on his watch while he stood by and did nothing to stop it,along with McCain,Bohner,Cantor and the republican experts on the economy,once cheerleaders,now experts.Right.

jesse St.Paul Minnesota (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:05 AM)

"...At some point, people are going to have to stop blaming Bush for everything." Jack, Dallas (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:36 AM)

Maybe so, Jack; but I'm not there yet. - Clara KC MO

You'll never be there. Bush Derangement Syndrom (BDS) is terminal.

Dr. Mike (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:05 AM)

Conservatives want a government that stays out of their lives and wants people to take responsibility for their own lives, families, and fortunes. -Erica
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Which is why they are very concerned about bedroom issues like who can marry who, who can use contraceptives, and monitoring other people's uteruses.

Hypocritical much? (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:07 AM)

Those pesky opinion polls must irritate people like Chuck Todd, because they always show that they are seldom in the mainstream of public opinion.

The most recent poll showed that the Republican Party has taken a beating because of their obstructionism. The Congressional Dems had a net positive approval and the Repubs had a net NEGATIVE approval rating. Doesn't look like the corporate media is doing too good a job at convincing anyone that the Republican obstructionists are winners.

Media Skeptic (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:09 AM)

Eventually sanity will prevale and the "STIMULUS" will be reversed to some major degree. It will probably be 2010 but sanity will prevail over these democrap dunderheads.

Anomaly (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:10 AM)

I was seriously paying attention (surprisingly) to your "winners and losers" piece until I noticed you didn't cite the media, particularly those who've taken on the punditry business, as big losers. No wonder people are running away from you guys. I wonder how long you can keep this thing going without reverting back to serious journalism. I must admist I still appreciate Chuck Todd. I think he's one of the best out there. I am also glad to report that I HAVEN'T WATCHED DAVID GREGORY.

Doles, Miami, FL (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:12 AM)

"Yet perhaps the bigger risk for Republicans is this: Does the president that Rove worked for end up getting blamed for the current economic climate?"

Are you high ?

Who else would be to blame for the current economy ?
This is Bush and the GOP's 'Great Recession".
The economy started to tank in 2006 - I remember distinctly when the mortgage brokers had their 'hands lopped off' because I was in the market for a new house.

GOP rule and Bush drove us into a ravine !

PulSamsara (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:12 AM)

MSierra, SF (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:52 AM)

This is an excellent assessment of the 'values' of our society. I was chatting with a co-worker of mine about the A-Rod scandal and we both agree that he is a perfect metaphor for what ails our country. Greed and Ownership trump all other traits. We have perpetuated a culture from Sports to Wall Street to Government where those with the most are 'winners' and those without are 'losers'. This is true by how the media creates celebrity out of myths and lies (Joe the Plumber) and how Palin billed the state of Alaska for being at home and traveling with her kids. These things are not 'character flaws'. It is 'how business is done'. And if those of us have twinges of a little thing called 'ethics', well we are the losers for not sucking it up and screwing others. And all of this is acceptable to 'societal norms'. It makes it really interesting to raise kids in this environment where they see the silliness and try to find practical application in their own lives. I guess we can just 'pray' for things to get better, right?

Tongue in Cheek meter about 78%

PS. I did not bash Palin on her birthday! Jawillie, what happened man?

Clara Kansas City, MO (Sent Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:14 AM)

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