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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Is health care a 'privilege' for some?

Posted: Thursday, March 05, 2009 12:37 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: , ,

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
The president may be holding a health-care summit today at the White House, in an effort to cull ideas for health-care reform, but some Republicans are making it clear they aren’t going to stand for it.

Zach Wamp, the always self-assured Tennessee congressman, was on MSNBC this morning, railing against any health-care reform effort, calling it a move toward “socialism” and that Obama was engaging in almost “class warfare.”

Video: Rep. Zach Wamp discusses President Obama's health-care summit with MSNBC's Tameron Hall.  

Wamp went so far as to say, "Health care is a privilege," before clarifying that he meant, “It's not necessarily a right” for those who choose not to pay for health care. He asserted that of the 47 million uninsured, half opt out of their employer’s provided health care.

“It's probably the next major step towards socialism,” Wamp began. “I hate to sound so harsh, but.... this literally is a fast march towards socialism, where the government is bigger than the private sector in our country and health care's the next major step, so we oughta all be worried about it." 
 
He compared Obama’s reform effort to what "Mrs. Clinton" tried to do "a number of years ago." (That’s despite the White House’s efforts to appear very different in its approach by inviting a multitude of voices, including Republicans and insurers, to the table at today’s health-care summit.)

Wamp added a thinly veiled "redistribution of wealth" argument, saying that the president wants to take money from those who already have health care to pay for those that don't have it.

"Listen, the 45 million people that don't have health insurance -- about half of them choose not to have health insurance...," Wamp said before issuing these warnings: "If you're on Medicare, beware. If you're a small businessperson, he [Obama] proposes to take away your deductions for charitable contributions, for your mortgage deduction on your home, in order to pay for health care. So, if you're one of those people who choose not to have health insurance, maybe you will have health insurance. But if you're one of those people that currently have health care, maybe they're going to take a benefit from you to pay for getting it to the other people. So, this is almost class warfare, in order for him to be able to say, 'Everyone now has health care.’”

Then he added, "Listen, health care is a privilege" (about 3:09 into the video.)

MSNBC Anchor Tamron Hall interjected. "It's a privilege? Health care? If you have cancer right now, do you see it as a privilege to get some treatment?" she asked.

"I was just about to finish to say, that for some people it's a right,” Wamp said, “but for everyone, frankly, it's not necessarily a right. Some people choose not to pay."

Asked who is not entitled to health care, Wamp responded, "An employee who rejects the health care provided by their employer ’cause they don't want any of the money deducted from" their pay check. He again insisted, "Half the people today choose to remain uninsured. Half of them don't have any choice, but half of them choose to, what's called, 'Go naked.' And just take a risk of getting sick. They end up in the emergency room, costing you and me a whole lot more money. How many illegal immigrants are in this country today, getting our health care? Gobs of 'em."

But isn't the emergency room point exactly one of the arguments FOR reforming health care?

Wamp said the GOP is for "extending health care to the people that need it, not turning the whole health-care system over to the government.” And he added that any solution should be "through the tax code; you give incentives for people to have health insurance."

But Obama is not proposing a single-payer system that would turn "health care over to the government," as the congressman suggested.

Later on MSNBC, former Senior Health Care Adviser to Bill Clinton Chris Jennings said Wamp’s comments are just “their talking points every time the debate over health care comes up.”

He added that Obama is not suggesting getting rid of employer-based health care, and it’s a fallacy to suggest otherwise.

“I don't see how anyone can read that as anywhere close to socialism,” Jennings said. “Most people outside the very far right wing of the Republican party agree with that. … There's an attempt to throw fear-mongering into this debate, because” Republicans don't have any “policy ideas.”

The White House also took exception.

“If you go around the country, you won’t hear many people saying, ‘I don’t want health care,’” a White House source said, adding that the point of today’s summit, in fact, is to bring together people with varying views on the issue. “Now is the time to reform health care,” the source said, “No one says, ‘We agree with everything.’ …We welcome voices from all sides of the spectrum.”

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Comments

Just goes to show you how "HYPOCRITICAL" our wonderful representatives are! If they feel it is okay for people who can't afford insurance to die, why the hell did Jack Kevorkian get thrown in prison? Hmmm could it be because these people had insurance and he took the money train out of the wealthys back yard? Something to think about. I am highly amused how our government officials feel it is okay to bend all of our freedoms and laws so that it benefits the elite few while the rest of us suffer!
You know..it is really hard to control yourself when responding to such ignorant stupidity. What planet is this nitwit from? I challenge him to walk up to the child who’s father was killed fighting for this country and tell him he does not have the same rights as the priveiged few when it comes to healthcare. Or how about the son or daughter of the coal miner that was killed on the jobs 25 years ago? Again…I CHALLENGE this coward to confront these people and tell them they do not have the same right to healthcare as he does.

Zach Wamp is saying that health are only for the rich, and dammit I am going to make sure it stays that way.  Zach wants all poor and middle class people to die.
Rosie, crestiview, fl (Sent Thursday, March 05, 2009 1:14 PM)

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You are so right - but than who are they going to get to do all the dirty work - you know - labor, work in the plants, field, construction, etc. - when the poor and middle class are gone.
It is so tacky for a congressperson who receives publicly funded healthcare wants to deny it to the American people. These pompous bloviators and those who support them are simply hypocrites.  The day they forfeit their publicly funded insurance is the day they will have the right to tell the rest of us what is a priviledge or a right.
I love that those of us who believe that health-care, like any service, ought to be earned, are made fun of by the left. I had a child before I had health insurance.We thought we had pre-paid everything in cash. My son spent three days in the neo-natal intensive care. Our bill was somewhere around $19,000. We explained that we were not insured, and suddenly, the bill was $13,000. For two years, we ate in, didn't vacation,worked three jobs between us, and paid off our debt. Silly us, we should have just let welfare pay off our bill and lived beyond our means, I suppose. The difference being, I can look myself in the mirror every morning, 'cause I "manned-up". Those who claim they can't afford health insurance just aren't working hard enough!
I just got billed $1100 for a mammogram, which seems a little excessive.  I'd like to hear some ideas on how to bring basic care costs down without the government directly subsidizing them ( subsidies remove market pressure to keep the prices down ).

And BTW, your crappy Submit button doesn't work with Firefox.
Keep going Repubs! You may be as extinct as the Whigs before the end of summer.

Privilege,huh? Rush/Marie Antoinette in 2012!
I DO NOT WANT THE GOVT TO CONTROL EVERY ASPECT OF MY LIFE! WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND? THE GOVT SCREWS UP EVERY THING IT TOUCHES, WHY WOULD YOU WANT THEM TO CONTROL YOUR HEALTH CARE? WHY HAVE THE NUMBER OF UNINSURED NOT GONE UP IN 16 YEARS? HILLARY WAS QUOTING THE SAME 45K FIGURE IN 94? PEOPLE PLEASE QUIT LAPPING UP EVERY THING THE DEMS THROW AT YOU! IT IS NOT A BAD THING TO MAKE MONEY, IF SOMEONE IS WILLING TO MAKE THE PERSONAL SACRIFICES IT TAKES WHY VILLAFY THEM? OBAMA WANTS TO CHOOSE WHO HAS MONEY, I DONT CARE IF YOU ARE A FAR LEFT NUT CASE THIS SHOULD SCARE THE CRAP OUT OF YOU! ALSO THE FACT THAT THE PRESS AS A WHOLE WILL NOT QUESTION HIM WAKE UP!
This Republican must get up every morning thanking God for Haiti and the Dominican Republic. The truist test of a heathcare system is INFANT MORTALITY. Without Haiti and the Dominican Republic, the US has the WORST INFANT MORTALITY in both the Northern Hemisphere and the Western Hemisphere. We have the MOST EXPENSIVE, LEAST EFFECTIVE healthcare system in the first world. Employer-sponsered healthcare makes American industry non-competitive with other first world countries. The largest single cost of our healthcare is qualifying people for service. A single-payer system puts ambulance-chasing lawyers out of business. EVERY industry in the US with the exception of insurance NEEDS a single-payer system.
Ok, I'd like to play a game.  Let's go down the list of GOP (Generally Obsolete and Pathetic) talking points, buzzwords and phrases to date.  Cut and paste this in your postings and add to it and see how many we can come up with.

- Socialisim (that's "socilism" for the inbred amongst you)
- Redistribution of wealth
- Class warfare
- ACORN
- Pork in the stimulus
- Pork in the budget (despite that it's mostly REPUBLICAN pork)
- Train from Disney to Vegas
- Train from Disney to a Nevada 'ho house
- Nancy Pelosi is (fill in the blank)
- Harry Reid is (fill in the blank)
- Chicago politicians are corrupt
- Global warming is a hoax (because it snowed this week)
- Bush kept us safe since 9/11
- Clinton was responsible for 9/11
- The Democrats were in power for the past two years
- Obama's soft on terrorisim
- Obama's not being bi-partisan
- Obama's not from this country
- Obama's responsible for
  - the stock market tanking
  - the current recession
  - TARP bailout
  - executive abuses

Again, if you think of any more, cut and paste this in a future comment.  I'm sure we can come up with a big long list.

http://jawillie.blog.com
The fact that there are people out there who think healthcare is only a privilege is meaningless to me.  Absolutely meaningless.  Universal coverage.  Everyone pays, everyone gets.  We will not suddenly start speaking russian and the water won't turn to vodka.  The opposing opinions just aren't worth caring about anymore.
Mr Wamp has no issue with taxpayers paying for his healthcare which is the case of every member of the congress. These people spewing nonsense on cable news are killing the GOP, they are vampires who after eight years of sucking the middle class, would have finished the job if we didn't stop them last november.
FDR built the middle class of this country. BHO will save it from these fools.  
Socialism, socialism, socialism....

Newsflash: That didn't work during the campaign. Won't work now, when the vast majority of people (including o good percentage of those who call themselves Republicans) approve of some system that guarantees healthcare for everyone. Especially when it's far cheaper than what we're doing now, and especially when the right flashes it's hateful side and says it's people's own damned fault when they can't afford the $400 month health care plan their employer offers. I mean, who needs rent and food and diapers, anyway?

These guys are getting more tone-deaf by the day. Good.
Rep. Wamp inadvertently allowed the truth to escape from his lips.  Since we know that the insurance industry does not and will not provide decent insurance coverage for those most in need of it, the Republican argument that we should rely on market solutions is based upon a philosophical principle that they would prefer not to acknowledge, that health care should not be considered a right for every American.  This is simply a variation on the underlying theme of Republican political thought, drawn directly from the pages of "1984": some animals are more equal than others. If indeed health care is merely a privilege, one would assume that Rep. Wamp would be the first to endorse eliminating health care coverage for members of Congress and their families as part of an overall effort to reduce deficit spending. Well...I'm waiting.
Rep. Wamp inadvertently allowed the truth to escape from his lips.  Since we know that the insurance industry does not and will not provide decent insurance coverage for those most in need of it, the Republican argument that we should rely on market solutions is based upon a philosophical principle that they would prefer not to acknowledge, that health care should not be considered a right for every American.  This is simply a variation on the underlying theme of Republican political thought, drawn directly from the pages of "Animal Farm": some animals are more equal than others. If indeed health care is merely a privilege, one would assume that Rep. Wamp would be the first to endorse eliminating health care coverage for members of Congress and their families as part of an overall effort to reduce deficit spending. Well...I'm waiting.
HEY HT WELLS!  I AM ONE OF THE 45 MILLION WITHOUT HEALTH INSURANCE.  I DO NOT CHOOSE THIS.  MY FINANCIAL SITUATION CHOOSES IT FOR ME.  IF I CHOSE COVERAGE, I'D HAVE NO MONEY FOR OTHER IMPORTANT THINGS LIKE RENT AND FOOD.  SO, GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE RIGHT WING'S BUTT AND START THINKING CLEARLY.
>>>>>>>>
Or the internet  
Anna Molly is right, universal health care is not "socialism", it's "humanitarianism"

Quick story:  My partner, a former cobol computer programmer is in school full time to "re-invent" himself and become a contributing (tax-paying) member of the working class in this country.  He has been on blood pressure and cholesterol meds, but lost his healthcare when he lost his job.  He called the "Free Clinic" here in LA to go in and get the scripts renewed.  He was turned away because the $3000.00 per year he receives in educational assistance makes him ineligible for services from the "Free Clinic" as he "makes too much money."  The pell grant he receives, $3000.00 per year is the only money he makes.  And that's too much???  I guess those who run scared of "socialized medicine" would rather he have the heart-attack and then go to County Hospital (not a nice prospect at all) on the state's (tax payer's) dime.  The good news is that the Nurse Pracitioner at his school was able to write the scripts for FREE and he got the medications (generic) at Target for $4.00.  Now, you tell me that the "socialized healthcare" provided by a community college does not work.  Oh and it increases the size and cost of government sooooo, soooo  much - my butt!!!
Insurance is complicated, but it all goes by the same rules. Each customer pays a premium based on his/her mathematical probability of needing treatment this period. So consider, why does a for-profit agency that charges more than they pay out outcompete with a non-profit agency that by law has to break even? We need to take the laws as they stand that favor for-profit companies to win in the competition game and level the playing field so non-profits can follow the natural course and outcompete, as the math in it's pure form supports.
I am a family nurse practitioner in ga.  I have been in our practice for almost 10 years.  In that time, I have seen more families who are self- pay because they can't afford insurance.  The monthly premiums are over $1000 for some of them.  SOme have lost their jobs recently, and COBRA costs more than they get in unemployment. SOme have catastrophic coverage; meaning, their insurance only coveres hospital bills and nothing else.  SOme have $40 co-pays and several thousand dollars in deductibles.  Mr. Wamp is not being realistic about health care coverage.  Big business wants universal coverage because it will be cheaper for them.  Mr. Wamp apparently doesn't know what he is talking about;  he needs to do a little research.  But, I guess that would take time away from his cushy job and all the other perks he gets.
Ok, I'd like to play a game.  Let's go down the list of GOP (Generally Obsolete and Pathetic) talking points, buzzwords and phrases to date.  Cut and paste this in your postings and add to it and see how many we can come up with.

- Socialisim (that's "socilism" for the inbred amongst you)
- Redistribution of wealth
- Class warfare
- ACORN
- Pork in the stimulus
- Pork in the budget (despite that it's mostly REPUBLICAN pork)
- Train from Disney to Vegas
- Train from Disney to a Nevada 'ho house
- Nancy Pelosi is (fill in the blank)
- Harry Reid is (fill in the blank)
- Chicago politicians are corrupt
- Global warming is a hoax (because it snowed this week)
- Bush kept us safe since 9/11
- Clinton was responsible for 9/11
- The Democrats were in power for the past two years
- Obama's soft on terrorisim
- Obama's not being bi-partisan
- Obama's not from this country
- Obama's responsible for
 - the stock market tanking
 - the current recession
 - TARP bailout
 - executive abuses

Again, if you think of any more, cut and paste this in a future comment.  I'm sure we can come up with a big long list.

Oh, and I forgot the current one
- Health Care is a privilege, not a right


http://jawillie.blog.com
The GOP is "heartless"? You can say a lot of bad things about the GOP but since when is the government about having a heart? When is a good law made by politicians feeling at their electorate? Health care is a "right"? Since when do we get to demand as rights things which make enormous demands on our fellow citizens?

We have lots of good rights - to our property, for instance, but these are mostly negative rights. We have a right for government (sometimes) and other citizens NOT to take away our property. What does a right to health care mean? That there is a doctor somewhere who MUST treat you, regardless of what they get paid? Or if they're paid well (as they deserve), that you can demand that your neighbor foot the bill? We get into a really scary place when our rights make such enormous demands on others.
PTD:

If you hate the American government so much why don't you move to Canada with thhe other traitors?
If you are making anything close to minimum wage, you can't afford health care.  You must choose a roof over your head and food in your stomach first.  There isn't anything left over!

I'm tired of the idea that now we have class warfare.  Where were these people when we were shoveling money at the wealthy in the form of tax cuts and special breaks?? There has been class warfare going on for the last 40 years.  Only wealthy conservatives have been benefiting and they have kept very quiet.  As soon as we start to reverse it, like jack-in-the-box Republicans, they start the cry "class warfare."  It's been going on for over 40 years and they have been winning!

At the end of WWII, where everyone shared the economic burden and all groups (classes?) fought, we had the least difference in wealth distribution in the last 60 years.  And how the conservatives have worked to reverse that!

Does anyone notice that one of the reasons that we are losing a competitive edge with other countries is that their companies are not saddled with the "benefit burden" our companies are.  Reforming health  care would go a long way to making us more competitive.
What Mr. Wamp meant to say was that only rich white guys are entitled to free health care - as a member of Congress he is "entitled" to the best health coverage available to anyone. He is a member of a government sponsored health care system and is therefore partaking in socialism for his family while trying to deny it for others.

Per Mr. Wamp, those who work for a living however do not deserve this largesse and free ride, that's reserved for members of Congress and their elite friends. Mr. Wamp must have a very narrow constituency; those who feel entitled to the government handouts for themselves but not for others.
Mr. Wamp was absolutely disgraceful & out of touch.  I sure hope this video wind up in the hands of his next challenger.  He should volunteer to spend a year paying for his & his family's coverage.  He should also have to spend that year living on unemployment compensation.
Limiting the charitable deduction for "rich" tax filers to help pay for this plan makes sense from Obama's perspective. Less private charities means more opportunity for governement to fill that void.
Patrick Columbus, Ohio . .

Nice story. You are so right. All of America's problems could be solved by working harder. Because anyone that wants a job can become CEO and make millions.

Oh yeah. And tax cuts. And completely getting rid of all government because it is evil and does nothing well. Just let everyone take care of themselves. Give them guns and let the fittest survive.

Oh wait, that's evolution. You right wing nut jobs don't believe in evolution, do you?
This is the reason Republicans should lose every election. They don't care about anything other than tax cuts and tax breaks for the rich and the business community. The Right Wing is pathetic!
Solution - Amend the Constitution so that health care is a right.
Very good report, I was watching the interview this morning with disbelief. I was hoping somebody would point out the blatant and sweeping statements this character Wamp blurted out. Good job GOP in letting this guy speak, as he sounds both uneducated and completely out of touch with the outside world. A major victory for us Dems in gaining even more support.
I've worked in the hlthcare field now for 25 yrs and it pains me to hear daily frustrations from pts and their families why their hlthcare insurance is either denying claims up front and/or having to be d/c'd before their ready. The reason is simple because as long as we continue to put profits before our physical/mental hlth we will continue to have ignorant and insensitive idiots like Wamp who resorts to archaic names like "Socialism" to demonize universal hlthcare which every industrialized country has. SURE NO PROBLEM FOR CONGRESS AND THE ELITE BECAUSE US IDIOT TAX PAYORS PAY. It's okay that a 62 y/o female eats dog food so she can pay for her meds. Wake up people these career politicians are killing and bankrupting us so we're too weak to fight back. Ignore the fear mongering!
I love that those of us who believe that health-care, like any service, ought to be earned, are made fun of by the left.
Patrick Columbus, Ohio (Sent Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:26 PM)
==========
So I guess that "services" like Police and Fire protection, garbage pickup, mail service, street cleaning, public schools, public recreation centers, public libraries, the military, various social services, etc. should be EARNED.

I said it before and I'll say it again.  Do you people actually THINK before you write this stuff down, or do you just randomly type letters on your keyboard and hope they form coherent sentences (sort of like psychic auto-writing)?

http://jawillie.blog.com
I've just completed reading all of these posts and I have just one statement and a couple of questions for those who have posted.  Having worked ina cancer center for the last 20 years, I have seen approximately 10% of the people in their middle age, who are self employed, making 80,000 and above, who have chosen to not carry health insurance.  They live in better homes than I and drive nicer cars.  Unfortunately, once they are diagnosed with a severe disease, they have problems getting health insurance.  Now, just to be clear, when they show up to the hospital, they are not turned down for treatment, they are just required to find a way to pay for it once they have been treated.  We treat the rich, poor, indigent, legal and illegal immigrants at our facility (a private facility) regardless of insurance or no insurance.  So whta I have seen in the current health care system is that everyone has access to health care, just not "free" health insurance.  So my questions to those of you who posted above are these.


1. Who is going to pay for these people who have no insurance?

2. Who is going to pay for the increasing number of illegal immigrants that keep flooding our country (and I'm not referring to the people who immigrated here the legal way)

3. If this is going to paid for by tax dollars, is this going to be a new tax or as stated from the story above, the loss of some benefits in order to pay for new ones.

4. And give me one reason why if I were one of the privileged to be able to make over 250,000 a year should I be forced to pay more to cover the cost.  (and for those of you who have not read the proposition, a small business owner who's net profit is in excess of 250,000 before expenses is put in that slot even though they may only have a salary of 70,000).
It's obvious this Wamp guy has no clue what he is talking about.  I guess he got his talking points for the day and doesn't know how stupid he sounds.

I can almost guarantee you that half the people that have no insurance did not have it offered to them.  

Universal Health Care should be the law. If they want to call it socialized then I'll be happy to call it socialized, even they know that is not what it's all about.  

Socialized means the government owns the hospitals and the Drs are government employees.  Medicare is not socialized medicine, VA health care is.
There's an awful lot of name calling here.
But in my opinion, Rep. Wamp is correct.  There is no constitutional right to any level of health care.  We are all free agents in the way we live our lives.   Some of us eat too much, some of us drink too much, some of us put things in our bodies that are harmful and some of us don't exercise enough.    So why should we all be "forced" to pay for someone else’s health care needs (read insurance) which are in a lot of ways a product of our own making.
Of course some will point to specific ailments or situations that cry out for compassionate action.  But just as we don't want to help pay for our neighbors utilities, mortgage, cars, vacations or their other private activities; we probably don't want to pay for their health insurance.  And of course, you can always take an extreme and use it for an argument, but that doesn’t make it right.  Sure there are special emergency situations that all hospitals (I think by law) must not turn away.  But does that carry forward to a federal government mandate that we must pay for your everyday health care needs, I don’t think so.
Lastly, railing against Republicans because they suggest that some proposed actions of the government carry a socialist flavor and calling them names does not advance your cause.  They’re using the shorthand language that everyone understands and all politicians do it (Democrats, Republicans, and Independents).
I received a bill from a lab for some routine lab work my doctor ordered.  My insurance carrier rejected it because the lab had the wrong insurance info.  The lab wanted me to pay the full $450.00 -- I sent it back and asked them to resubmit it with the new correct information.  The insurance paid $75.00 and my co-pay was $8.00 and the rest was 'forgiven' by the lab.  What a crock!!  No wonder our health-care is so expensive, especially for the uninsured.
In a way that he didn't intend, and I'm sure he now regrets, Rep. Wamp actually hit the nail on the head.  Healthcare is not a right.  Free Speech is a right, Habeas Corpus is a right.  Something that is not intrinsic to an individual cannot be a right.  What people are really trying to say is that "good health is a right" and everyone knows that's not true because people do not naturally always have good health.  If good health were a right, then we could guarantee good health and that's not something that can be done.  In the same way that health problems are not equally distributed, healthcare is not going to be equally distributed.  
The cost of healthcare is way out of control, however; if you can't afford to pay your rent, food and healthcare you are living beyond your means.  
Zach Wamp -- what a name! Because he believes that health care is not a right, I suggest we take away Wamp's government-paid-for health care coverage, along with all the other perks like retirement at full pay, free postage, etc. Why is it those who condemn it are always those who have it for free???
Class warfare is that this insensitive buffoon has
excellent taxpayer-paid healthcare. Opting out isn't an option either. Bam, you get cancer or fall off the roof, you get care. And who pays??? Those who are responsible enough and fortunate enough to have health care from their employer or can afford it.
The CLASS WARFARE is that certain income levels can afford it and many others can't. And these greedy, heartless Repubs. don't give a damn. It's all about cost.
When you are sick and injured, there IS no, 'Life, Liberty or Pursuit of Happiness'(which Windbag 'Leader' of the Republican Party, Limbaugh misquoted. What an American!)
Why don't the REPUBLICANS want the country to prosper?
Why don't they have any IDEAS to help?
Why don't they care about hurting AMERICANS?
Why don't they care that AMERICANS can't afford health care??
Amen ColoradoBob! Do you people not realize how much money the government already gives people who are disabled because they did not take care of themselves when they were younger. How many billions of tax dollars go out to the people who are smoking, drinking, and eating their way to disability or death? Why should I take care of myself if I am just going to have to pay for my neighbor's vices in the future? Also where do you think this money comes from? It certainly is not coming from government surplus. It is coming from your and my paychecks... that is if you work to begin with. So not only do I pay for my medical insurance as a premium already but now I have to pay yours. It is not a right, the constitution does not declare a right to free or even inexpensive health care. What is next, you can't afford to drive to work so the government supplies you with a car? Government daycare? Everybody from the age of 5 learns that mommy and daddy have to work to support us. We learn that some jobs pay better and have better benefits than others and that if we want to be successful and get these benefits we have to try and work hard to get them all of our life. Now we don't? The government should buy me designer handbags if a natural disaster destroys my home. The government should feed my octuplets and pay for my insemination because I am a single mom. The government should pay for my lift chairs and my housing because I am to obese to work. Do you know who pays for the government though? We do... I work hard to make $36k a year, which is not enough to buy a decent house or a cool car. The government takes $8k of that and redistributes it to others already. I have to work 2 1/2 months just to pay for the government already, I can't afford for it to get anymore expensive because you think you have rights to things you don't. It frustrates me to no end that you think you can take food out of my families mouth to help yours. If I have it to give I will, but don't think you have a right to take it, but if everybody is equally miserable at least we are all equal! Good job people
Wow, maybe we can wait months or years to get a medical procedure done like they do in Canada or England.  Or just not get the procedure at all because we are too old and health care is "rationed" for younger patients.  I grew up right on the Canadian border, and they flocked to the US for health care, which they had to pay for themselves.
No one is denied access to health care.  Most medical professionals will work out a payment plan if you don't have insurance.  However, many patients won't even make an effort to pay at all.  

So I guess that "services" like Police and Fire protection, garbage pickup, mail service, street cleaning, public schools, public recreation centers, public libraries, the military, various social services, etc. should be EARNED.

http://jawillie.blog.com
jawillie, Philadelphia, PA. (Sent Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:49 PM)

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I've been saying this for awhile now and we need to spread this refrain...

We pay for Police and Fire protection that affect our health.  We may never use it but we pay for it for the protection of AMERICA.  Same should go for Health Care.

It's time to turn the page on profiteering off of peoples misfortunes.  This is america where opportunity should be free not just barely affordable!!
Why don't we rescind paying health care premiums for all government employees? Think how much the taxpayers would save if we refused to supply health insurance for local, state or fed gov't employees. Rep Wamp as well as most of the GOP should shut up as they are the receipients of taxpayer generosity, in many cases the same taxpayers who cannot themselves afford health insurance.  
In response to: "So I guess that "services" like Police and Fire protection, garbage pickup, mail service, street cleaning, public schools, public recreation centers, public libraries, the military, various social services, etc. should be EARNED.
jawillie, Philadelphia, PA. (Sent Thursday, March 05, 2009 2:49 PM)"

Yes, these services should and can be earned. Just about everything you list has been and can be offered by a free market, and therefore earned. One of your most obvious examples is postal service. FedEx and UPS do these jobs much better than USPS, and they are not insolvent like the USPS (trending toward a $6 billion loss this year).

Healthcare is like any other industry - Finite resources need to be efficiently allocated and can't be just "given" to everyone.
http://www.arbitraryvote.com

" If indeed health care is merely a privilege, one would assume that Rep. Wamp would be the first to endorse eliminating health care coverage for members of Congress and their families as part of an overall effort to reduce deficit spending. Well...I'm waiting."
Mike Appleton, Orlando, Florida (Sent Thursday, March 0

Kudos to you my friend, so very well put.
For all the people saying government can't run anything well, I'll point out a few things.  The police tend to do a pretty good job.  When was the last time you had to pay a cop to come when you call 911?  The FDA does a pretty good job.  Not perfect, but a lot of that is because they're underfunded.  However, I don't recall having to cross my fingers when I bite into my burger.  The Military does an exemplary job.  Would you rather us have Blackwater mercenaries running around, fighting for the highest bidder?  How about firefighters?  Do you have to pay a hose fee before they put out your burning house?  

When you let people who want to see government destroyed run the government, don't be surprised that they do a poor job (Katrina).  When you let people who believe in a working government run the government, don't be surprised when they do a good job (Hurricane Andrew).
The health insurance industry was supposed to contain costs with managed care.

Instead they created a bureaucracy that costs more to maintain than the problem it was supposed to solve. The quality of managed care deteriorates and their profits increase.

- Premiums rose four times faster than wages between 2000 and 2006 (Kaiser Family Foundation).

- Quality of coverage deteriorates with people spending more on premiums and copays and getting less care (Consumer Reports)

- Profits rose 170% between 2003 and 2007. (Snapshot of the Health Insurance Industry in the United States, 2008, nwfco.org).

They reap profits large enough to pay for health care for everyone in this country - and they have nothing to do with actually providing health care!

They spend a huge chunk of their profits on lobbyists and on political campaigns that target politicians who want to change the system and install shills like Wamp.

Tennesee led the creation of managed care, and TennCare, which is the umbrella for the private, for profit companies that run Medicaid and Medicare there OWNS Wamp's political butt.

I am all for an open debate on the subject, because it is complicated, but Wamp is so obviously engaging in scare tactics and a disinformation campaign it is beneath contempt.

That is apparently the only strategy they have left, shills and scare tactics, since there is nothing else to justify their bloodsucking bureaucracy.

The "choice" he is talking about? I got laid off and had to "choose" this month between paying my mortgage or paying my outrageous health insurance premium.

Characterizing that as a "choice" is deliberately disingenuous. And that "socialism" canard is just specious.
What an ignorant,insensitive, moron. This guy is our tax dollars at 'work'.
He is NOT doing the already idiotic GOP any good with this spiel.
Mycroft of Chicago Illinois, more intellectual dishonesty. The Cato Institute is a libertarian think tank with an agenda not a non-partisan source of information.


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