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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Gregg: Budget forecast a lie

Posted: Thursday, March 12, 2009 12:55 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: , , ,

From NBC’s Ken Strickland
It was obvious to most Capitol Hill insiders why President Obama wanted Republican Judd Gregg as a member of his cabinet: He's one of the sharpest money-minds in Congress.

But instead of getting Gregg's counsel within the administration, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner found himself today of the receiving end of Gregg's fiscal conservative wrath.

In a hearing before the Senate Budget Committee Gregg dressed down Geithner with facts, figures, and charts. While always keeping his cool, the exchange was somewhere between a mother's scolding, a drill sergeant's questioning and an attorney's cross examination.

In his opening statement, Gregg politely called the administration's budget forecast a lie.

"The argument that it cuts the debt in half in four years is, ahh, is truly spurious," he told Geithner.       

President Obama himself gives Gregg's comments a sense of stinging credibility. When the president introduced Gregg as his nominee for Commerce Secretary last month, he said Gregg is known for is fiscal discipline. 

"He shares my deep-seated commitment to guaranteeing that our children inherit a future they can afford," Obama said.

Today, the president's compliment of Gregg turned into an attack on Geithner. Gregg said the budget is essentially "putting on our children's backs a debt they can never get out from underneath." 

He added pointedly, "I think we're putting at risk not only our children's future, we're clearly putting at risk the value of a dollar and our ability to sell debt."

When Gregg withdrew his nomination, he said he and the administration were "functioning from a different set of views on many critical items of policy." 

Gregg's opening monologue today would indicate that was a gross understatement.

"The argument that this budget doesn't have tax increases [on everyone] is, I think, an 'Alice in Wonderland' view of the budget," he said.
 
He challenged the budget's math on cutting the debt: "When you take the deficit and quadruple it and then you cut it and half, that's like taking four steps back and two steps forward. That's not making any progress; you're still going backwards."

Gregg questioned why any foreign country would continue to buy up U.S. debt: "Because if I'm in the international marketplace, and I'm looking at this budget, I'm saying to myself, ‘Where's the discipline? Where's the containment?' There isn't any."
 
In his withdrawal statement last month, Gregg said, "I expect there will be many issues and initiatives where I can and will work to assure the success of the president's proposals." 

The budget doesn't appear to be one of them.

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Wait a sec??? Isn't budget-balancey enough AND raises too much revenue? One of these things is not like the other. Let's just drop the pretense and admit that the GOP isn't in favor of balanced budgets either; it's in favor of tax-cut fueled deficits rather than domestic-spending fueled deficits.
I'm glad to see you're reporting this.

But I also recall a presidential-primary-era post (one of) you did on the problem facing proper reporting on the economy:

For the most part, DC journalists don't understand economics.

I agreed with your analysis 100%.

So in the interests of good government, transparency, etc.... can you get NBC to cover two issues?

1) monetary policy (your question could be - With regard to monetary policy, what's in the best interest of America - Sound Money or Fiat Money?)

2) do you support or oppose the "Audit the Fed bill?"

PLEASE... put the Gang of 535 on the spot about auditing the Fed... either they support or oppose it.  And if you (the MSM) do not hold their feet to the fire... then Nancy & Harry will let the bill die.

You guys hold the key to demanding an honest public discourse on these issues... even if you and most Members of Congress like the status quo... doesn't America deserve this conversation?
Thank providence for Judd Gregg!  It is now clear that he withdrew his name because he realized that he would have no input in this administration, but would be used to validate the outrageous spending of utopeans who have no concept of reality.

Here's what Obama's budget really says, folks:

we quadruple the deficite to 4trillion dollars.  But the, we cut it to 2trillion dollars, so it is cut in half.

In other words, if I gain 40 pounds, then lose 20, I think I'm ahead of the game.  I still don't fit into my size six jeans, however.

The Big O talks and talks, so that people hear what they want to hear.  All of the Obama nuts have been talking about how his budget cuts the deficit in half, because they think that it means TODAY'S deficit.  Surprise, it means doubling today's deficit.

Those are the facts, and no amount of pretzel logic can change them.

It's the Big O's budget, by the way, so how are you going to blame Bush for it?  Think hard, now.
Frankly, nominating Gregg was one of Obamas biggest mistakes.  Gregg is a complete financial idiot if he doesn't know the difference between the debt and the deficit.
ah yes, the good old fiscal conservative party of responsibility calling the obama budget spurious - wow!!!  once again - GOP has no ideas other than tax cuts for the top 1% - supply side economics is dead - the GOP is the party of NO solutions, party of hypocracy - and please sod off.  "W"s legacy - Cut taxes by 2 trillion - start two wars - one completely unjust and started on lies to support oil and business buddies - at the expense of our "patriotism" - nuking the economy thru deregulation - nuking the environment thru signing statements - GOP has absolutely no ground to stand on and is crying WAH WAH WAH when they should all be in jail for putting us in this horrendous situation.  Palin/Limbaugh for 2010/2012 - bring it on - hahaha.
Alice in Wonderland vs The Mad Hatter!

Gregg needs to go away and STFU!

Gregg was there (in Congress), while the economy was slidding into never never land!  Why didn't he stop the Madoff Ponzi scheme?  Madoff will probably go the way of Ken Lay of Enron shame!

Lay strangely enough had a heart attack, and avoided prison while his family kept the money.  Madoff will no doubt take the easy way out while his family lives in luxury for the next 100 years!
This Gregg is a sharp guy. The Obama administrations budget forecast is filled with rosey sceanrios. Gregg sums up the Obama budget up perfectly by saying Obama's claim of cutting the debt is nothing more then 4 steps backward and 2 steps forward.

Then there is this:

"He [Gregg] shares my deep-seated commitment to guaranteeing that our children inherit a future they can afford," Obama said.

Gregg may have that belief, but Obama doesn't. No one can believe Obama is about fiscal restraint when he keeps signing those huge spending bills on things that will not even come close to stimulating the economy.

And Geithner still hasn't learned his lesson of coming to these hearings ill-prepared. Once again he gets taken to the wood-shed. And it's really not his fault because Obama's statements on his plans for the economy are directly contrary to the actions he performs. That's a tough thing for anyone in Obama's administration to defend.


And why isn't NBC reporting on the Dynamic Duo's opposition to transparency?

Bernanke and Geithner are actively opposing the FOI requests of Bloomberg and FBN.

And where's Obama on this?

From my perspective, Obama didn't win on a stimulus mandate.  But he certainly built a lot of goodwill by advocating his "Transparency in Federal Spending" bill with Coburn.

Yet he now sits silent on these FOI refusals and the "Transparency in the Federal Reserve" bill.

What gives?

Obama should be directly questioned about this.
let me be polite, you all took a nice pay raise and spiff while Americans continue to lose jobs, thanks so my feeling is no matter what goes on you proven to me that you come first.  Your budgets  will continue with the wasteful spending from both parties...Thanks pretty soon i wont have to worry about sending washington money i wont have any...
Gregg credibility is shot - no one cares – his whole deal, was all a political stunt and we know it.

The Republican still continue to believe that America is blinded by their - political games.

They will never learn obviously; that we see right through them - enough to vote their asses out of office come next election time.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
Gregg credibility is shot - no one cares – his whole deal, was all a political stunt and we know it.

The Republican still continue to believe that America is blinded by their - political games.

They will never learn obviously; that we see right through them - enough to vote their asses out of office come next election time.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
If Gregg is the sharpest mind in congress and that he states that Obama's buget progression a lie....than why did this GOP idealogue SAY NOTHING ABOUT THE SHRUB'S SMOKE AND MIRROR'S BUDGET OF 8 YEARS. Partisanship will continue to be the barricade that will get nothing done once again.
It would be nice to read a report about Geithner's rebuttal. I do assume he had answers to Gregg's accusations, no? As it stands now, this reports is really very one-sided and unbalanced.
Please, please check the Congressional Record:  Did the Senator make any such assertions during the Bush administrations as the American people were being lulled into believing that all budget items were on the table while, in reality, the second set of books were locked away somewhere?  If the Senator knew and allowed the American citizens to be duped, then he is a liar and is guilty of dereliction of duty.  If he did not know, he sure did get smart fast...suddenly became very astute....strange.  
Well, if anybody knows about lies it would be a Republican.
Where is the other side to this argument. Geithner did not rebutt?  Where is his rebuttal in this piece?
I don't know what kind of television Ken Strickland was watching, but he needs a new one. I watched the hearing myself. Gregg was like a screaming child looking for the attenetion KEN STRICKLAND gave him.
Geitner handled every criticism from Gregg with intelligent, fact based, professionalism. He had Gregg put his charts back up and explained why they were wrong. THIS IS THE POOREST REPORTING I HAVE SEEN ON FIRST READ. A TOTAL MISREPRESENTATION.
Well, if Gregg was so concerned about the budget why didn't he "man up" and put away his ideology and help the administration and the country out???  
President Obama said it would not be easy.  Today was not an easy day for Tim Geithner.  Gregg does not have a better solution...Lowering taxes for an unemployed worker, or tightening the belt is "Hoover thinking". Fortunately Gregg is not in charge of finance.   The economy will get better...it took several years to get in this mess.  It will take time  for it to get better.
I have no problem with Republicans pushing back if their arguments have substance and aren't just covers for political attacks. That's what democracy is all about, obviously. Open dialogue, unfettered debate.
Kudos to Obama for trying to get Gregg on his team: Obama obviously relishes discussion amid people with different points of view.
Hey, idiot (Gregg) what did you call the former dunce in chief's budget's?-----The obviously were not right neither.  Damn Repukes --Enemy of the state!!!!!!!
Good for Judd Gregg!
'...Today, the president's compliment of Gregg turned into an attack on Geithner. Gregg said the budget is essentially "putting on our children's backs a debt they can never get out from underneath."  

He added pointedly, "I think we're putting at risk not only our children's future, we're clearly putting at risk the value of a dollar and our ability to sell debt."...'

In a real sense, THAT'S TRUE
But, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN these last EIGHT YEARS ??

Remember Reagan said: 'The deficit doesn't matter if the economy is growing'
Is that ignorant nonsense or what ?
When conservatives repudiate Reagan's 'free lunc' they'll have some credibility

The two biggest deficit builders over the past 8 years
Tax cut for the rich
the Iraq War

Republicans and 'moderate' Democrats ahve both been euqally responsible
(hi Hillary, DiFi, JugHead Gregg...)


We won't end the deficit anytime soon
There's a recession under way
You have to spend your way out of it

If you want to leave something to your childre, end 'free trade' (sic)

Otherwise you're gonna leave them Indian and Chinese living standards



If Gregg were so concerned with our children's financial future, then why did HE request earmarks in the omnibus bill just passed? Judd Gregg is a hypocrit, as are the 28 Republican Senators that earmarked the bill. Those that live in glass houses.......
Obama is our president now,we need him to succeed, we got behind Bush after 9-11, this is our new 9-11!!
May God bless America,and give us the strength to do what is best for all American's!!
Thank you, John
John Bohlman in Wis

[[we got behind Bush after 9-11]]

And look where that got us. When you're on the wrong path, you're on the wrong path. And that is exactly where Obama is leading the county. So if you feel you need to blindly get behind Obama, then go ahead. Others, people that actually think about things, believe Obama ideas won't work. It looks like Senator Gregg is one of those people.

So keep waving the flag, and backing a losing horse, and when unemployment hits 15%, let us know how all that worked out for you.
If Obama is waging war against a national (and probably a global) depression, then stimulating aggregate demand to prevent a deflationary collapse is mandatory.  The spending should have been more, in terms of stimulus (as Krugman says) but, the problem is that administering and spending money in blocks greater than 1 trillion dollars is impossible - the waste and corruption would be too difficult to control.  So, the stimulus will have to be done in more manageable increments.

Gregg's concern about deficit reduction is justified but we have to prioritorize from a menu of bad choices.  A patient receiving medicine may have to put up with side effects in order to be made healthy.  Senator Gregg is well aware that the national debt during WWII was 140% of the GDP and that we were able to recover after that.  Once again, we are faced with a threat to our existence and must take draconian measures to prevent collapse (I won't go in to the irresponsible de-regulatory policies that the Republicans like Gregg help to institute and encourage, since the Reagan years, that led to this collapse).  Everything must be put into proportion when regarding the measures necessary to prevent another Great Depression.  I think that we may avoid that Great Depression by the present administration’s stimulus policy but, we have to wait and see.  In any case, Senator Gregg's evaluation is way off the mark.
Well, then maybe you should have taken the damn job.  But then, it is far easier to sit there and whine than to be actively involved in finding the solutions, isn't it?  You had your chance and didn't take it.  Why should people listen to you now?  If you wanted to be heard, you should have taken the job.
Where was Gregg when the Republicans ran things and Bush didn't veto a single spending bill?  Where was his "fiscal discipline" then?  How did all those Bush tax cuts help the long-term economy?  Bush's deficits?  Did they "spur new investment" and make for a transformed, 21st century powerhouse?  Have they "put money in the pockets of entrepreneurs so they can create jobs?

Dang, looks like it's "Not Present" on all counts.

Ooops.

You know, I REALLY wish a reporter would ask these "fiscal conservative" Senators these kinds of questions, and demand a freaking answer.
From Wikipedia:

'...The Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 established the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) in the United States and included banking reforms, some of which were designed to control speculation.[1] Some provisions such as Regulation Q, which allowed the Federal Reserve to regulate interest rates in savings accounts, were repealed by the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act of 1980. Provisions that prohibit a bank holding company from owning other financial companies were repealed on November 12, 1999, by the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act.[2][3]...'


Well I guess this makes it official. In the absence of any coherent alternative the Republicans have opted for the complete and total economic destruction of America in the hopes of once again seizing power.
Gregg, how about a statement on how you and your bother profited from pork barrel earmark spending of funneling money to an Air Force,and how about the 600,000 dollars you have already collected from this shady deal. You are giving the money back aren't you ? Mr. Integrity from the state of New Hampshire
Typical wing nut who forgets who's party has got us into this mess.Judd you are just another in a long line of whiners,you see it's easy to blame others for your short comings,as we now see with the bush cronies coming out to defend Little George.Judd, your Boy George has at the wheel when the tires fell off so any of the shifting of blame will not fly.Of coarse you can grandstand,you must have went to the same school as cantor,boehner,vitter,stanford,Talkinghead U.You and your boys can huff and puff all you want,the people have seen what your party is all about.All blow and no show,or is that Rush?
He added pointedly, "I think we're putting at risk not only our children's future, we're clearly putting at risk the value of a dollar and our ability to sell debt."

-----------------------------------------------------

Such a vigilant watcher of deficit spending surely has been railing over the previous 8 years and creation of 6 trillion dollars worth of national debt under Bush's watch....

No?

Well maybe we should find someone more...neutral.
And where was this champion while the Rep's nearly bankrupted us..... If just asking.....if he cared why start now unless.... it's just politics
Did Mr. Gregg have any problem spending billions on an unnecessary war? Did Mr. Gregg have any problems with deregulation which allowed banks to make bad loans? Did Mr Gregg put out a hue and cry against such things? And now he has the gall to complain without offering a viable alternative? I want charts, graphs, and a complete plan in writing that can be posted on the Internet for all to see Mr. Gregg. Just how would you do things differently and what guarantee your system would work any better than that proposed by the Administration?

Gregg wants to play the question game well until he answers the ones I've just asked he has no credibility.
Aside from providing a challenge to false declarations and running the numbers MSM couldn't be bothered he IS NOT working against Obama, the president has stated he WANTS transparency and success.  With out some one like Gregg to provide light for transparency and facts & figures to help avert failure then Obama would fail, what Gregg has done is to HELP OBAMA SUCCEED!  Sometimes my kids don't want sour medicine but as a parent I HAVE to give it to them for their own good.  Gregg has given Obama some sour, but needed, medicine.  MSNBC working Obama's message and talking points and trying to tear him down, may help him control the debate but won't help him SUCCEED.  How about MSNBC drops it's opinions, and the Obama talking points and just reports the facts, Gregg owned Geithner with SOLID FACTS!  if there were holes in Gregg stance you would be all over them, and we all know it.

welcome to changeville
Its hard to have fiscal credibility when your party ran up a 5 trillion in deficit spending in a short six years...and yes Judd my boy you did in fact vote for virtually every spending bill put in front of you...many times with plenty of pork for the folks back home...go away now you little gnat
Where was all this religion when BushCo was pounding the economy into the ground?

Why does he think it's better to stand outside and bemoan piteously instead of working with the new president trying to solve what he was incapable of noticing until now?

SHOUT OUT TO THE PSYCHO CHICKENS: THE ECONOMY DID NOT TANK IN THE LAST TWO MONTHS. THE POLICIES OF THE PREVIOUS ADMINSTRATION PLAY AT LEAST SOME DEGREE OF A ROLL.


Sorry for shouting, but it's "tough love" and re-iteration of the truth until the psychotic episode is over.
What a Joke this character is ! Putting debt on Our children was'nt a thought when giving Chicken George & Trickie Dick everything under the Sun ! Putting debt on our children was'nt a Problem when running thru a Surplus(leftover from Clinton)& giving Tax breaks to the Richest who supposedly would Invest it & Create jobs. Yes, Senator Gregg, You are a Joke, along with the GOP. The American Taliban was steadily at work tearing apart everything across the world in Hope's of Political Domination across the board.

Just sit down & STFU unless you're going to start helping adress the Problem's You created !

What a Joke the GOP has become in such a short period of time & as usual, all of them think America still has an Open Ear to the same solutions that put us here in the 1st Place.

In that regard, yes Sen. Gregg it is a lie staright from the Horses Ass !
Gregg was there (in Congress), while the economy was slidding into never never land!  
------------------------------------------------
So was Obama.  
Amazing how most Americans dems and reps are so damn smart when it comes to the national economy. Probably 75% or more cannot balance their own checkbook. Obama is certainly right about one thing. His
administration really has us pegged. G. D. America is nothing but a land of cowards and idiots.
Judd my boy you did in fact vote for virtually every spending bill put in front of you...many times with plenty of pork for the folks back home...go away now you little gnat
---------------------------------------------------
And his then-colleague Senator Obama was voting for the same bills and loading them up with pork for Chicago.  
Asking where Gregg was during the last 8 years is a valid question, however I think he is more concerned now, because what took 8 years to get us to a trillion dollar deficit is only taking Obama less than a year.
I also wonder why Obama has repeatedly denied that 95% of us will not see an increase in taxes, but Gregg points out that that kind of revenue stream would require a rise in everyone's taxes.  I'm wondering if Obama will tax products or reduce deductions or exemptions on our income tax instead. Not raising INCOME taxes per se.
This site is begining to be a waste of time. If you dissagree with Gregg tell me what he said that was wrong! All you people do is bring up Bush. What is up with that? Obama is a master of leading lemmings. Where can a person go for a true exchange of ideas?
msnbc has now officially joined the other msm networks as news magazines - no more reporting, just sensationalistic garbage: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/the-obama-bear-market-and_b_174119.html
Judd is a phony and hypocrit. He has no credibility after the money he and his brother just made on a shady deal. It may not have been an illegal deal but ethical? I don't think so. He needs to go somewhere and sit down.
The $7.7 billion in the omnibus spending bill was a smokescreen for the 8%, roughly $30 billion, increase over last year, on top of the $260 billion or so that was provided to the same entities in the "stimulus" bill.

They (congress) and Obama, used the earmarks issue very skillfully to play us all.  The earmarks are mostly meaningless.

And of course, this is all happening during the last official budget year of the Bush administration.  The stage is now set for supportive media and party communications hacks to exploit the $1 trillion or so in spending by the Obama administration as something that came from the last Bush budget years.  

Add to a large deficit as much as possible to create a $1.75 trillion deficit.  Then campaign in 2010 on the great accomplishment of reducing it by a couple hundred billion or so.

Some people are trying to make the case that Obama is being led around by the nose by Pelosi and Reid.

I think he's fully engaged.

He's exactly, down to the "I'm looking down on you as I use this teleprompter", what I expected.
This site is begining to be a waste of time. If you dissagree with Gregg tell me what he said that was wrong! All you people do is bring up Bush. What is up with that? Obama is a master of leading lemmings. Where can a person go for a true exchange of ideas?
-----------------------------------------------------
Greg in Oklahoma City, these people aren't interested in an exchange of ideas, they're only into chanting some form of 'Obama and Democrats-All Good, Bush and Republicans-All Bad.'   Liberals are only tolerant of the viewpoints of those who agree with them.  
The only liar here is Judas Iscariot Gregg. There are no tax increases for the 95% of the population who make under $250K, and there are tax cuts for most middle and working class people.

It's probably a good thing this anti-American clown betrayed his president and withdrew his tainted name from consideration for Commerce Secretary.
BTW: I noticed that there haven't been any posts from the Obama bashers blaming him for the stock market in the past three days. I wonder why?


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