ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First 100 days: Cheney vs. Obama

Posted: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:21 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: , , ,

The New York Times: “Pressure mounted on President Obama on Monday for more thorough investigation into harsh interrogations of terrorism suspects under the Bush administration, even as he tried to reassure the Central Intelligence Agency that it would not be blamed for following legal advice… And while Mr. Obama vowed not to prosecute C.I.A. officers for acting on legal advice, on Monday aides did not rule out legal sanctions for the Bush lawyers who developed the legal basis for the use of the techniques.”

More: “Some Bush administration officials, including former Vice President Dick Cheney, accused the administration of endangering the country by disclosing national secrets. Mr. Cheney went on the Fox News Channel to announce that he had asked the C.I.A. to declassify reports documenting the intelligence gained from the interrogations. Gen. Michael V. Hayden, the former C.I.A. director, has also condemned the release of the memorandums and said the harsh questioning had value.”

Obama tried to reassure CIA staff yesterday that the agency has his full support, The Hill writes. "Now, in that context I know that the last few days have been difficult," Obama acknowledged. "Obama said that he had some conversations before his publicized remarks with 'senior folks here at Langley in which I think people have expressed understandable anxiety and concern.'"

"Top White House officials described the decision to release the torture memos Thursday as among the toughest of Obama's young presidency," Politico says. "There was a vigorous debate internally about which documents to release and how much detail to redact. In the end, Obama himself was described as carefully editing his final statement to make sure he hit just the right note."

"Republicans are hoping they have finally found the secret to taking on President Barack Obama -- by portraying him as overly apologetic about U.S. misdeeds and naive about engaging unfriendly regimes abroad," Politico writes. "But tagging Obama as a 'Jimmy Carter Democrat' on foreign affairs and national security may prove a difficult critique to make stick -- at least for the moment." 
 
But you have to ask: Isn't that a tough sell because: (1) Obama has a pretty centrist national security team that has been praised by Republicans and very likely some members would have been in a McCain cabinet; (2) his Afghanistan approach in particular has also been praised by Republicans and isn't seen as dovish; (3) his predator drone missions in Northwest Pakistan certainly couldn't be described as "Carter-like"; and (4) his ordering of military force resulted in the killing of the three pirates and the saving of the Maersk Alabama captain?

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Give it up Cheney.  We all know what a f'en crook you are and a disgrace to our country.  Please, go back to your un-disclosed location.
Obama is nothing but a punk. Don't like Cheney much, but he's right on this one. If you want to put the bad out there, then you better be prepared to put out the good too.

Obama has essentially hog-tied the CIA with his release of the secret memos. There is not one CIA agent that will stick his/her neck on the line with the idea that later on they may have to answer for their actions. Think this helps keep America safe? Not a chance. What Obama did by releasing those documents was make the country much less safe.
"Obama tried to reassure CIA staff yesterday that the agency has his full support"

He says this right after he threw them under the bus.
Compromised their positions and tactics.

No president in American History has turned on his own country the way Obuma has.

I see the "Change" and I am still having a hard time "believe in" it.

I guess that when Obama is calling all of us Arrogant and letting every dictator in the world critize us - he forgot that whole "defend" thing he promised when he took the oath of office.

Welcome to the United States of Arrogance
Dick Cheney is a criminal of the worst sort and hides behind his power to keep from going to prison. He is no better than Bin Laden. By their own backdoor admissions, they have used torture and terror on detainees that have done nothing but placed a blotch on this country's reputation and have made us less safe and far less respected.

Keep on talking Mr. Cheney; one of these days all this lip flapping you're doing will land you in jail, where you and your former boss belong!
Men of peace and justice have always been prejudiciously been portrayed by there accusers as the very same thing those accusers shortcomings are..
Their (the accusers) familiarity with their own self manifests only the bad images of themselves...they must a afraid of themselves too....
Barack Obama has done absolutely nothing wrong but some are sitting in that high (hurry up) judgment seat to be judged too?...Yeah that's it..Judge not, least ye be judged also....
Old is old and new is gaining...is that what is really going on here?
Chaney  is trying to re=write his sorry a$$ history,his single digit approval rating,his sorry a$$ lies he spun,and sold to Little GW,his sorry a$$ fear and smear game he is now trying to play,hay sorry a$$ why don't you go on a show that isn't a Repuk way station,Sean Hannity is about as sorry as Darth.If anything Mr.Obama I for one wish you would shut this sorry a$$'smouth for good,since Sean and Rush will give this out of touch has been all the air time he wants,the radio wingers are afraid of the old coot.Time for the Justice dept to steo up,they don't need approval to investigate from Obama,it's there job,regardless of what anyone else thinks.The memos,the bragging on Fox,the boarding of two detainees 266 times,what, wasn't a hundred times enough .Chaney I hope Holder hires indy lawyers to investigate your war crimes .You the king of deferment chickenhawklieingsorrya$$old fool.
Find track them down and put the bast*rds in jail...

And those that hide the truth..well put them in jail too...
Obama is nothing but a punk. Don't like Cheney much, but he's right on this one. If you want to put the bad out there, then you better be prepared to put out the good too.

Obama has essentially hog-tied the CIA with his release of the secret memos. There is not one CIA agent that will stick his/her neck on the line with the idea that later on they may have to answer for their actions. Think this helps keep America safe? Not a chance. What Obama did by releasing those documents was make the country much less safe.
TR - Michigan
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Yyou dont even have to really blog anymore in here because morons like this guy above make anyone laugh!!
What is it going to take to shut this man up?
TR - Michigan wrote: If you want to put the bad out there, then you better be prepared to put out the good too.

Please, tell me one thing that is good about torture? There should be no secret memos to release regarding the shameful behavior of our government. Not only did Cheney and his minions shred the Constitution, but also turned the precepts of the Geneva Convention into confetti.

Face it, TR-Michigan, if the CIA is hog-tied, it is not due to anything that our President has done, but due to the ruthless disregard of the law by the Cheney/Bush administration.
>>>"Republicans are hoping they have finally found the secret to taking on President Barack Obama -- by portraying him as overly apologetic about U.S. misdeeds and naive about engaging unfriendly regimes abroad,"

>>>But you have to ask: Isn't that a tough sell because: (1) Obama has a pretty centrist national security team that has been praised by Republicans and very likely some members would have been in a McCain cabinet; (2) his Afghanistan approach in particular has also been praised by Republicans and isn't seen as dovish; (3) his predator drone missions in Northwest Pakistan certainly couldn't be described as "Carter-like"; and (4) his ordering of military force resulted in the killing of the three pirates and the saving of the Maersk Alabama captain?
==========
In other words, YA GOT NOTHIN!

Thanks for playing, Cheney, Gingrich, etc.  Enjoy your lovely parting gifts.

http://jawillie.blog.com
what is it going to take this man to shut up? Jail.
I guess short term memory loss is finally showing on cheney - he is the one who destroyed the CIA and any confidence the CIA had of the US government supporting them - after all, Cheney outed a CIA agent, I can't think of anything more unpatriotic o a member of the CIA/FBI community.
Don't worry, dickie, you may not remember your sins, but those of us who lived through your dog and poney show do and we won't be forgetting it either.
>>>Obama is nothing but a punk. Don't like Cheney much, but he's right on this one. If you want to put the bad out there, then you better be prepared to put out the good too.

Obama has essentially hog-tied the CIA with his release of the secret memos. There is not one CIA agent that will stick his/her neck on the line with the idea that later on they may have to answer for their actions. Think this helps keep America safe? Not a chance. What Obama did by releasing those documents was make the country much less safe.
TR - Michigan
----------------------------------------------------
Yyou dont even have to really blog anymore in here because morons like this guy above make anyone laugh!!
Sean Denver (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:43 AM)
==========
Yeah, but you gotta admit that this room would be so BORING without them.  They're like the NUTS in the Butter Pecan ice cream.

http://jawillie.blog.com
I really hope that obama does go after Cheney and Mr. Bush... that way, in four years, we can go after him.  He's sold the US of A down the river, has put every one of us in harm's way, and will go down as the greatest mass murderer in our history.  Once the hardline muslims start there crap up again, and it's not an "if" but a "when" now, we can all point the finger a B. Hussien and his Muslim clan.  Remember, he TOLD us he was Muslim... MSNBC even reported it.  And you fools voted for him... I wonder if we can go after you for crimes, too???
"Obama tried to reassure CIA staff yesterday that the agency has his full support"

He says this right after he threw them under the bus.
Compromised their positions and tactics.

No president in American History has turned on his own country the way Obuma has.

I see the "Change" and I am still having a hard time "believe in" it.

I guess that when Obama is calling all of us Arrogant and letting every dictator in the world critize us - he forgot that whole "defend" thing he promised when he took the oath of office.

Welcome to the United States of Arrogance
The Last Living Democrat (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:35 AM)
===========

People in the CIA got in line at 8am in the morning, waiting on Obama.  Also most people in the agency loves him(my wife in the CIA).  Also did you know under the Bush Admin, anyone who had an idea that differ with the admin was actually walked out. That's why we couldn't do nothing the last 8 years....everyone was booted are some just walked becasue they couldn't do there job. It was my way or the highway.... So are you going to point that out.  Like it our not... You are a classic bible clinger,  
Isn't that hilarious that the VP secrecy now wants the intel community to release classified data that he purports supports his baseless assertions Obama is making us less safe?  Ofcourse he goes on fox and freaks to whine his case as they'll give any conservative lie their undivided support.

Obama did the right thing in releasing the CIA memos showing that the previous lawbreaking administration did torture and did break our national laws as well as international law.  Obama is making a mistake not prosecuting the writers of the legal briefs who allowed this lawbreaking torture in the first place.  I can understand his desire to keep the CIA operatives safe as he needs them to give him good intel.  He certainly got a great reception at the CIA yesterday.

Prosecute War Criminals Bush and Cheney!
History will clearly show Obama to be the worst president this country ever had.  10-15 years from now you won't even recognize it as the USA.  Our Constitution and our Rights are going straight down the sewer.
I would rather be waterboarded than to have to go home to Nancy tonight! She scares me!
DICK CHENEY = IRRELEVANT = THE PAST = THE OLD POLITBURO = EVENTUALLY HE WILL SHOW UP IN HIGH SCHOOL AMERICAN HISTORY TEXTBOOKS "UNDER SHADY CHARACTERS" CHAPTER
I know I'm just an empty-headed liberal, but could anyone please explain to me one significant way that we're stronger today for all the hubris and false bravado displayed by Bush and Cheney.  And don't tell me about Al Qaeda, please.  We're still fighting them, but on several fronts now, instead of just one, and Americans are still dying.  So what else?  I'm waiting.  

Duh!!!,Reston,Va (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:50 AM)

Does your CIA wife hate America also?

Did you just "out" her -

I hope that she is better at the warrantless wiretaps that Obie has increased than you are at spelling and english (and facts)
Obuma is not going to do ANYTHING that does not make America look BAD.

Thats why he only released the bad notes.

Also, he "forgot" to release the notes that show Pelosi and Hillary were deeply involved.
What a Suprise!
As look at chenny, i think back to the movie Its A wonderful Life, chenney is old man potter, the richest meanest man in town, and president Obama is george Bailey, when unlce billy lost the money in the bank and old man potter tried to ruin george bailey because of is, well chenney is trying to bad mouth the president now even though he the president is trying not to drag this old scumbad down. well at the end of that movie, george bailey should have had went back to potter and kicked his ass and told the town what this old man did, but he did not, well the president should do that now, if old man chenney does not keep his mouth shut, the predient need to make chenney an open book so the whole town(united states) can see that this guy is nothen but a tired old frustrated old man. chenney get back in your chair and roll away before the president gets pissed and take your pace maker away, take a page from former president bush and keep your mouth shut.  
TR - Michigan (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:29 AM)

***************************************************

Those documents would have been released with or without President Obama. The ACLU already had dibs on those babies.

Cheney is a certifiably insane character who is getting dizzy trying to keep up with Barack Obama. It was easy for Cheney to manipulate GWB, the village idiot, but he has not seen the likes of BHO so he is out front and center criticizing a sitting President who has the power and authority to send his a$$ to jail. He wants to bring President Obama down and curry favor with the three people who think he is relevant: Hannity, Limbaugh and Beck. What a moron!
Here they go again, the "Who have I hated today" crowd led by Rush Limburgh or should I call them the "deliberately seeking an enemy" crowd. Obama is trying the clean (in only four months) the mess that you folks have made (in eight years) that really put the United States in serious security and economic danger. Cheney is all over the place because of his fear of being indicted by a foreign country for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Finally, the good news is that these guys have started to lift their heads from the desert sands where it has been buried for the past eight years.
How supposedly patriotic Americans could line up behind a guy who weaseled his way out of military service multiple times is beyond me.  Yet, this guy had no problem with torturing others or sending American men and women to their deaths for at best a misguided war.  I've been a Republican all my life, but where I come from, we have a name for people like that... Coward!  That kind of cowardice and hypocrisy just sickens me, especially when it comes from the party I (used to) support.  
If someone had kidnapped your daughter, and you had him alone in a locked room, what tactics would you use to find out where your daughter is?  I'm guessing you would do whatever it took to get the information.  

If someone had planned an imminent terrorist attack on your country, which would potentially kill hundreds or perhaps thousands of innocent civilians, and you had him alone in a locked room, what interrogation tactics would you use?  

Let's say, for arguments sake, that you used only the interrogation tactics that Obama has approved, you failed to find out the needed information, the terrorist attack took place, and a thousand people died.  

Let's also say that slightly harsher techniques would have resulted in information that would have prevented the attack.  

Could you sleep with yourself, knowing that your failure to extract the information resulted in thousands of innocent lives being lost?  

Because at the end of the day, that is the question.  If there is another attack on US soil, and we were in custody of one of those planning the attack, but were unable to get necessary information using approved interrogation techniques, the tide will turn, and people will wonder whether Bush and Cheney were correct.  

As with everything, the problem is drawing the line.  From what I've read, the line was drawn at techniques that provided no lasting physical or psychological effects, based on experiments on our own soldiers.  

I don't believe the hardcore right wishes that we would cross that line any more than I believe the hardcore left wishes that we would not conduct thorough interrogations of terrorists planning imminent acts.    
I am not a fan of "W"; but I do feel sorry for him right now.  Cheney is a complete Control Freak.  Even now he thinks he gets to control the message, control the dialogue, control the country - Hey, Darth, your 15 minutes are over, sit down, shut up and pray like hell they don't prosecute you for the CRIMES you committed.  "W" never had a chance.  I respect him a little more today knowing that it was probably excruciating for him to say NO to Cheney about pardoning Scooter Libby.  Cheney is so delusional, he is CONVINCED everything he's ever done was the only option.  Lynn should up his meds and have the white coats ready.  He's not going down without a bullhorn.

Pathetic!  We can restore our Constitution and we will, one shredded piece at a time.
"Obama tried to reassure CIA staff yesterday that the agency has his full support"

He says this right after he threw them under the bus.
Compromised their positions and tactics.

No president in American History has turned on his own country the way Obuma has.

I see the "Change" and I am still having a hard time "believe in" it.

I guess that when Obama is calling all of us Arrogant and letting every dictator in the world critize us - he forgot that whole "defend" thing he promised when he took the oath of office.

Welcome to the United States of Arrogance
The Last Living Democrat (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:35 AM)
==========

Are you a long term thinker?  Or maybe you Box!!!! well if you play chess or box you know the best way to get checkmate/tko is to. Think 15 moves ahead by making sure they can see you gameplan/Jab,jab jab with the left, which will in return have them drop there guard for the right hook....We tried the Tyson approach and it's not working....In the office place or in sports every good team  Disguise there game plan.  how do you set up the long ball with a run.  How do you set up a inside curve...with outside high.  Stop being so simple dude.....Just admit you don't like him...Just Because

Cheney is psychotic!  Put him in any one of the prisons that he has built.

He is a pathological liar.  The case for him being rational should have been dismissed a long time ago!
At least Bushy seems to have finally realized what an f-up he was and now keeps his mouth shut.  Cheney keeps digging himself deeper into the cesspool of history.  Why does the media insist on giving even the slightest shred of credibility to a man so widely reviled even by his fellow countrymen?  
Sadden America, what a dumb post.  

Cheney is a war criminal.  Should we go after him?  No.  Instead of drag the US through the mud by dragging this Machiavellian miscreant and his buddy Bush into court we should just learn from the mistake.  

Also, I agree with an earlier post that there would be no ugly CIA info release if the CIA hadn't been doing ugly things but I still believe that the information hadn't been released.  The CIA will likely be less inclined to do their jobs because of it.

President Obama doesn't strike me as a weak CIC.  He has not only been ballsy towards Pakistan, pirates, etc. he has also been pretty ballsy in how he deals with the public's preconceived notions, the Repub's and the Dem's.  

On all issues he has shown a velvet, informed trigger finger but a trigger finger none the less.  Yet, he has the humility to step up and take the heat for the former administrations arrogance and ego.

So far so good, Mr President.
Well done Mr.Obama by declaring all the secrets of the CIA you have proved that you are a very nice man.
But unfortunately I don't think any of the CIA agent in their good mind would ever do anything other than by the book to get information from terrorists whose only purpose in life is the destruction of USA. Oh! here is a technic CIA agents can use, give the terrorists biscuits and take them to a baseball game and also a visit to Disneyland and voila you will get all informations you need.
I saw Dick Cheney on TV saying what they did and why it was OK.  With the exception of the insect thing and the quantity of times the waterboarding was done, exactly what terrible thing has Obama done that has made us less safe, except release reports that essentially confirms  that we did what Dick Cheney already said on national TV?
Duh!!!,Reston,Va (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:50 AM)

Does your CIA wife hate America also?

Did you just "out" her -

I hope that she is better at the warrantless wiretaps that Obie has increased than you are at spelling and english (and facts)
The Last Living Democrat (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:55 AM

The list Living Democart  if you look at the name sir.  You will see it means a single ideology(last living..only one left). Which mean it's irrelevant because it die's with you.  You might as well go sit in a corner...



>>>David B, Chapel Hill, NC (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:02 AM)
==========
You should probably take a look at this 2002 Seattle Times series "The Terrorist Within" and the story of Bennie Noris, aka the Millenneum Bomber.  The US was able to get information from him about a plot to attack the WORLD TRADE CENTER in 2001 WITHOUT TORTURE.  Unfortunately, that information was ignored by the BUSH administration, and the rest is history.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/news/nation-world/terroristwithin/chapter1.html

Interesting (and scary) reading.
Stop being so simple dude.....Just admit you don't like him...Just Because

Rogue Nation,Wv (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:04 AM)

I liked him a lot 3 months ago - when I voted for him!

I, like many americans, bought into the whole "change" thing.

Instead I got lot more of Bush's spending
I got more of Bush's lying
I got more of Bush's warrantless wiretaps

Not that McCain would have been better.  It turns out that we really didn't have much of a choice-

And now I get more of the feeling that America Sucks.

Maybe Rev. Wright will be proven correct when Obuma is done "remaking" america?

I hope not!
The article exemplifies the filter through which MSNBC processes information.  Even Baghdad Bob had more ethics than MSNBC.  Obama formed his world view while snorting cocaine in College and, intellectually and emotionally, never evolved out of the "Amerika is evil" mindset of his heroes (Ayres, Che Guevara, Wright, Pfleger, etc....oops I guess it  is irrelevant if the idols are leftists).  Obama believes that "but for Amerika" the world would be all rainbows and lollipops.  Slavery would never has existed, poverty would be unknown, war would be unheard-of, latin America woud be a continent of happy musicians, etc. ad nauseam.  Obama attaches no significance to  the Constitution, to the "arsenal of democracy", the Monroe Doctrine, the sacrifice of American lives in WWI,WWII, Vietnam, Korea or in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Obama sees  no evil in concentration camps, but faults Jews for zionism.  Obama sees no evil in rape rooms or genocide in Iraq, but libels our troops as baby-killers because (as in all wars fought in civilian areas) innocent people die in wartime.  Obama basks in the glow of Chavez , Castro and Ortega while legitimaizing their illegal regimes, genocide and political prisons.  
But that is all OK, because the androgynous Chris Matthews gets tingles up his leg when he sees obama, and that apparently justifies propaganda.
Bloggers should be careful...the obama-police could well be tracking dissidents.  
You do not give your playbook in any sport to the other team.  The same holds true for countries and how they obtain information.  This is not a game.  The folks that take the side of openness will also be the first to scream "You have to protect me" when the need for that comes; and it will a lot sooner with the current actions of this administration.  I have never seen or heard of any leader in the World for that matter; (business or otherwise) so intent on
blaming the past leaders for everything.  It is just not good leadership or management practice to focus and talk bad about others to try to make yourself look better.  It is truly shameful and I can gererate no respect or trust for our President when he is so intent on blaming others.  Not one single leader I have known every balmes the person they take the reins from.  Move forward with your own methods.  Do not keep creating ways to blame someone else.  It is disgraceful.
I have never seen a former VP crave the spotlight like this man!  But, considering he didn't act like a 'statesman' when he was in office, why should he start now?

By comparison, he is making Bush look good.  
Shoot em in your face chaney would not be able to defend his arse from a wet paperbag.  Mr shoot em in the face is just scared of his own shadow amd must use that on other people to justify his fear.  Shoot em in your face would not know what it means to depend on someone else in the foxhole to defend your position from all sides from being attacked.  Shoot em in your face is starting to get the feeling the Hague maybe coming for em!
As I read some of the liberal rants on this page accusing Bush and Cheney of assorted war crimes, etc. it occurs to me that the writers are either ignorant of history, the Constitution, or both.  
For the record:  The so-called "torture" employed by the CIA (and the OSS before that) did not begin with Bush or Cheney.  Perhaps we should also prosecute Clinton? or (posthumously) Kennedy? Johnson?
For the record: The "record deficit" of the Bush administration was created by A DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED CONGRESS, NOT THE WHITE HOUSE.  CONGRESS PASSES THE BUDGET, NOT THE PRESIDENT.  
For the record:  OBAMA'S 12-15 TRILLION DOLLAR DEFICIT IS GREATER THAN ALL OF THE DEFICITS OF ALL US PRESIDENTS (INCLUDING BUSH) COMBINED.  (For you true liberal kool-aid drinkers: 12 is more than 4).
For the record:  THE DEMOCRATS IN  CONGRESS approved and voted for the Iraq war and continued funding it up to the present time.
For the record: Saddam Hussein misled not only the world, but even his own generals, into thinking he had WMD's.  Hussein played a dangerous game, and he lost. Just like Mussolini.  
For the record: CLINTON SAID SADDAM HAD WMD'S AND SO DID GORE. FURTHERMORE, WE HAD 14 U.N. RESOLUTIONS AUTHORIZING THE USE OF FORCE  PRIOR TO INVADING IRAQ WITH 34 OTHER NATIONS.
For the Record: The evil Haliburton Defense Contracts were  the product of the Clinton Administration , not Dick Cheney or the Bush Administration.  
For the record: IN TIME OF WAR THE U.S. GOVT. HAS ALWAYS HAD ENHANCED SURVEILLANCE POWERS...ASK THE JAPANESE AMERICANS WHOM THE DEMOCRAT PARTY TOSSED INTO CONCENTRATION CAMPS DURING WWII.  
It is one thing to demand limits on the government and to cite misconduct by both parties, but this childish tripe about "my party being pure and the other party being all evil" is stupid, destructive and laughably ignorant.  
Chenney and the rest of his posse are the real criminals, excluding Bush he was just the spokesperson.You right wing nuts...get over it! you lost your turn. dont worry another bush will come to your pathetic rescue.
I wonder if all of you do gooders would have the same opinion about so called torture if you were bent over and about to lose your head.
Cheney is 1000% correct, if the low lives are going to release our secrets then release all of the facts. Let's let our enemies know the correct way to get to us because obviously , beheading is not getting through to you Koolaid Drinkers.
Dick Cheney and George Bush are million times better than this America Haters you people have placed in office now.
I can't believe any true American Citizen would care much for a guy, they voted into office, And then he takes off around the world berating America to ever thug in the world !!! However, knowing his long list of friends here in the States it makes sense that he would cater to this caliber.
My first questions to all Americans and our CIA is what happens if we run out of detainees to torture? Is this the only intelligent way to gather information? I remember a time when the CIA use to gather information legally or illegally from specfic targets and our government would disavow any knowledge or condoning of such actions if the CIA agent was caught breaking the law. In other words gathering intelligence specifically from a possible source. But this is not what this previous administration had done. They threw out this blanketed torture tactic through memo's and legal breifs on anyone detained, regardless of their known associations with Al Queda. In other words just anyone pulled off the street. Possible innocense be damned! This my fellow Americans was premeditated torture on a grand scale. This was not a random act based on a specific target but blanket torture policy. It also appears premeditated because why would you prepare breifs and skewed legal opinions. In moving forward, I would hope the CIA would use a  more intelligent way of gathering information than just gathering people off the street and just torturing them to see if somehow you get lucky enough to gather information that you could actually deem credible. As for Cheney spouting off that toturing 100's of detainees for a tidbit of information should be enough evudence to move forward for prosecution no matter how painful for the American people to swallow. To do anything less would be a terrible injustice and a permenant stain on us all.
A thoughtful essay from theology student Jimmy McCarty on today's Sojourner's webpage.(www.blog.sojo.net)  Would a Truth and Reconciliation-type Commission be a viable option for accountability in this situation?

Torture: A Crime that Requires a Verdict

Dear President Obama,

Thank you for making the four memos approving of and describing the torture done to children of God in our name public even though many pleaded for you not to.  Thank you for letting me know that my tax dollars were used to torture those carrying God’s image.  I have known we made helpless people think they were drowning for a while now, but now I know we kept some awake for almost two weeks straight.  Now I know we put collars around the necks of defenseless people and slammed their heads into walls.  And now I know we put people in boxes so small they couldn’t move and put insects in those boxes the prisoners thought could seriously injure them with no way of escape.

We cannot know what we need to repent of without knowing what sins we have committed.  Thank you for letting me know.  Now I pray that we as a nation ask for God’s forgiveness for what we, because of our fear and complacency, allowed to happen in our name and work to ensure it never happens again.

Thank you also for vowing that we will never do this again.  As a Christian I know God declares these actions completely sinful.  There is no theological or ethical justification for torturing another human being.  In doing so we demonstrated that we place our faith not in God, or some abstract notion of justice or liberty, but in violence and power.  These foundations will not sustain us.  Those who live by the sword die by it, and I am now afraid that we have lived by torture so long that we will also die by torture.  We must never torture again, and we must work to make amends for the sins we have already committed.

I am not in complete agreement with what you have said, however.  You have said no one will be held accountable for the acts of torture because they were approved by the justice department.  While I understand the premise of your reasoning, I think it is wrong.

Perhaps those interrogators who physically administered the acts of torture were following orders, but those who gave them were not.  They made a decision to pervert justice.  Those in the know have not apologized for their conduct or admitted it was wrong; in fact they have vehemently defended it.  What they did was illegal according to multiple international treaties and laws.  We have prosecuted people from other nations for doing the exact same things we did.  We cannot sweep this under the rug.  While it may be deemed unnecessary, or impractical, to prosecute all involved from the top down, someone must be held responsible.  Those officials that perverted our previously agreed upon notions of justice must be held responsible.

There must be an independent commission of inquiry into the actions of the Bush administration.  Everyone, from former President Bush and former Vice-president Dick Cheney down to the justice department, who made the decisions to approve of torture must be brought before the American public and be held responsible.  It is the only way the rest of the world will believe we have discarded these evil methods and know we are no longer a nation that tortures.  Not to do so is to be complicit in the cover-up of the ways we have sinned and the perpetuation of that reputation of us throughout the world.

It is a sad day in American history.  May God have mercy on us.

We were attacked on 9/11 in part because of a failure in our intelligence network to communicate amongst itself when information pointed to an imminent attack in 2001 and in part because the Bush White House neglected and discounted reports from Clinton national security folks about OBL. Torture after the fact was reactionary and immoral. Starting a war in Iraq was immoral. The party of Cheney lost; the party of Obama won. The American people have weighed in.
What a sad and pathetic guy Cheney has become.  He does not understand that his 15 minutes are up.  The Bush administration's lowering of the bar and only passing notice of the Constitution were blights on America.  And if anyone thinks they know the answer to "Is America safer?", they are simply making it up.  How does one measure safety?  The absence of attacks?  That ain't good enough for me.  I'd trade a live Saddam Hussein who would not allow anyone (e.g., Al Qaeda) to undermine his power and authority for the situation we have now where we are stuck in the swamp of blood that is the Middle East.  We had him bottled up, which also meant we had the terrorists excluded from Iraq.  Bush and Cheney blew it....big time and now 4000+ Americans and 10's of thousnads of Iraqis are dead.  Way to go, Dick.
Duh!!!,Reston,Va (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:50 AM)

Does your CIA wife hate America also?

Did you just "out" her -

I hope that she is better at the warrantless wiretaps that Obie has increased than you are at spelling and english (and facts)
The Last Living Democrat (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 9:55 AM

The list Living Democart  if you look at the name sir.  You will see it means a single ideology(last living..only one left). Which mean it's irrelevant because it die's with you.  You might as well go sit in a corner...

Rogue Nation,Wv (Sent Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:16 AM)
==================

Not in a fighting mode...I am saying the mindset of Name calling, saying someone hate's there country because you don't agree. The same style you project in your post is the same style that has hurt us the last 8 years. I'm not a Bush fan but I can point out the area's he did do well in. Also while he was my president I attacked his policy but with substance.  Not Calling him name's and using New's punch lines...

If you have hate to bring to the table you might as well go sit in a corner....  


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