At the Supreme Court today...

Posted: Monday, May 04, 2009 10:48 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: Courts, Pete Williams

From NBC's Pete Williams

There were four decisions today -- all on technical legal issues.

In a unanimous ruling, the court said the government cannot charge illegal immigrants with identity theft unless there's evidence the immigrants know they're using someone else's ID information. The immigrant in the case didn't not go free, however; he was charged with other crimes for the use of fraudulent documents.

Also, Chief Justice John Roberts said nothing about Justice David Souter's plans to retire. That's typical for the court. His retirement probably will not be formally acknowledged until the last courtroom day of the term, in late June. Justice Souter was on the bench today as decisions were announced.

Oral arguments are done for this term. We next get decisions on May 18.

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Comments

I'm sure that bigot Lou Dobb's head will explode when he goes on air to announce this Supreme Court decision. It seems like a rather poor decision even if it is unanimous because anyone using a false ID knows they're not using their own but somebody's eleses. Just another poor SC decision by the right wing packed SC.

In Roberts We Do Not Trust!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:00 AM)

Just wait for limpag's diatribe, I'll bet he will get close to having a heart attack!!!!!

Terry, Disabled Vet, Des Moines, IA (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:09 AM)

J. Merle Stanley, Westchester, NY: '...John Edwards is a scumbag and a mysogenist.

His wife was seriously ill, and he cheated on her. I don't ever want to hear another extremeist liberal talk about Newt Gingrich and his situation again.....'

Actuallty, Newt cheated on TWO wives
He also followed the Bill Clinton school of romance:

Demand oral sex so you can say you never slept with that woman'

I was an early Edwards supporter on this blog
He pretended to be something he wasn't
Voting for the War, voting for the Bankruptcy bill..

A hero with feet of clay

'...Additionally, Edwards ganged up along with Obama, and the MSNBC-TV crew to torpedo Secretary Clinton's Presidential campaign at the Philadelphia debate in the fall of '07'....'

HA 1 HA !!
THAT'S what sticks in your Craw
She was as big a disappointment as Edwards
Too much baggage, Merle
Too much bad karma !!
HA !! HA !!

'..We got SHOWMANSHIP instead of LEADERSHIP, and that's why this country's economic woes continue....'

YEAH !!
She would have cut the GAS TAX !!
She wouldn't have LISTENED to the ELITIST ECONOMISTS !

'...Whatever Edwards does for his wife to makeup for his behavior is their business....'

He should get advice from Slick Willie !!

What did he do to make it up to Hillary ???

Poor Hillary
What a tragic, miserable life !!

PS watch for the Movie 'Battle for Terra'
The VILLIAN is A George Bush clone
The Earth President is a tall thin African American

TOW THUMBS UP !!

MSierra, SF (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:10 AM)

I love how you had to tack on right winged packed SC, even though the fact that it's right winged packed had no effect on the case because it was UNANIMOUS. All four left leaners decided the case the same way.

It'd be nice if you added each justice's name to your We Do Not Trust rant and be even handed instead of idealogical.

Scott, Lufkin TX (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:14 AM)

“At a pizza restaurant in Arlington, where they officially unveiled the National Council for a New America, party leaders attempted to portray Republicans as sensitive to the concerns of average Americans and to shake off the ‘Party of No’ label that Democrats have tried to affix to the GOP.”

WOW! These clowns sure are original – the only thing the Washington Post failed to mention is that it’s a wood fired pizza restaurant – they cook all their pies on burning crosses!

The Party of Nope strikes again – they GOT nothing to offer!

Next thing you know they’ll talk their local dry cleaners into a ½ off special or something for sheet cleaing!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:14 AM)

TOW THUMBS UP !!

MSierra, SF (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:10 AM)

This is just "two" funny.

Soccer Mom (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:15 AM)

In a unanimous ruling, the court said the government cannot charge illegal immigrants with identity theft unless there's evidence the immigrants know they're using someone else's ID information. The immigrant in the case didn't not go free, however; he was charged with other crimes for the use of fraudulent documents.

They know they're using someone elses idenfication. They know that they're not citizens. The only way that problems such as these can be handeled is to crack down on the agencies that issue the documents. The people that work in those agencies sell those documents.

There is a need for check and balancing to happen. The social security administration and motor vehicle agencies nation wide need to do a better job with the screening of the people that are employed in those places.

Instead they would rather require that natural citizens of America jump through hoops with proof of citizenship anytime we need to change something or get something. There again is a violation of our rights as natural born tax paying citizens.

Hell, why don't they use our federal tax records to fix this citizen identification issue? They use our social security numbers for every thing else, why not issue federal identifications? I assume that would be too easy.

I suspose anything that is done will be tested by criminals, they will figure out a way to forge documents anyway.

Anita, Birmingham, Alabama (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:18 AM)

Why can't illegal immigrants be charged with being ILLEGAL??????

Question Mark (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:18 AM)

TOW THUMBS UP !!

MSierra, SF (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:10 AM)

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The only line you didn't cut and paste in, and you screwed it up.

Mark Driver (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:22 AM)

It'd be nice if you added each justice's name to your We Do Not Trust rant and be even handed instead of idealogical.
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Scott in Lufkin, the terms 'even handed' and 'Eric in Salinas' never belong in the same sentence. Save yourself some time and skip his posts. You'll never learn anything new since he essentially has only one mantra.

Red, White, and Screwed (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:22 AM)

"They're already signed up for welfare?"
Tolly Fields, NYC

Hey Tolly no they're following the true Liberal Doctrine of getting a good college education so they can get good paying jobs to support ignorant welfare queens like you!

Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:25 AM)

WOW! These clowns sure are original – the only thing the Washington Post failed to mention is that it’s a wood fired pizza restaurant – they cook all their pies on burning crosses!

The Party of Nope strikes again – they GOT nothing to offer!

Next thing you know they’ll talk their local dry cleaners into a ½ off special or something for sheet cleaing!
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Oh, has Robert Byrd changed parties? Thought he was still a Democrat.

John Denver (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:25 AM)

It really won't matter who Obama appoints the party of No will be opposed to them unless that person, and it is unlikely, is a right wing extremist.

I believe he will appoint a pragmatist to the court. It will be someone who has empathy but also knows the law and will enterpret the Constitution fairly. Fortunately most justices move to the center regardless of their politics prior to being on the SCOUS. There are a few exceptions, of course.

eagle1776 (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:26 AM)

MSierra, SF Has not evolved very far as he is still using his "tow thumbs". that must make life hard, no wonder you are so angry!

B, La. (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:29 AM)

Hey filthy red head, what do you have to offer? certianly not an educated or insightful post.

B, La. (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:31 AM)

If you don't go to the Social Security Office, or the Immigration office, or the Secretary of State's office, and apply for YOUR legal (type of ID here) identification, how on earth can you say you didn't know you were using another person's ID? You sure knew you weren't using YOURS!!

And these justices actually graduated law school? Shame on ALL of them. Legal or illegal has nothing to do with common sense.

A voice from Michigan (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:36 AM)

It really won't matter who Obama appoints the party of No will be opposed to them unless that person, and it is unlikely, is a right wing extremist.
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And when Republican presidents nominate justices, the Democrats oppose them too. That's how it works. Don't you recall Obama joining the filibuster against Alito? Quit acting like this is a new thing.

Clarence Darrow (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:48 AM)

Hey filthy red head, what do you have to offer? Certainly not an educated or insightful post.
B, La. (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:31 AM)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My how clever you are… filthy? That’s cute all right… thanks for the suggestion. And if you don’t like my posts then why do you continually read them? Hmmm?

Nice to see I get under your skin!!! That’s what I’m HERE for – to let people like you NEVER forget the damage that was imposed on this country under YOUR Idiot in Chiefs and his band of dolts under their watch..

Have a Nice Day... B!

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:52 AM)

"cannot charge illegal immigrants with identity theft unless there's evidence the immigrants know they're using someone else's ID information."

Duh! So, who is on the line for the identity theft?

Ed, San Antonio (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:54 AM)

Ok everybody, let's get some facts straight. There are two types of identity issues here: fruad and theft. Fruad is when you use an identification that does not belong to anyone and is entirely made-up. Theft is when you use the identity of a real person. You can imagine that someone in the country illegally usually doesn't know if it's the one or the other. At issue in this case was a law, passed by Congress, that said that the defendant had to "knowingly" use an ID that belonged to someone else (knowingly being the key word). The reason this was unanimous is because all 9 rejected the government's argument that knowingly didn't really mean that the defendant had to know it was someone else's ID. I encourage everyone who wants to criticize any court opinion to read it first.

Mike, Lansing MI (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:56 AM)

B, La. - Oh, and your calling people names is so insightful and shows a high level of education!

try the truth, Rochester, NY (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:59 AM)

Joe - STL (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 12:03 PM)

And when Republican presidents nominate justices, the Democrats oppose them too. That's how it works. Don't you recall Obama joining the filibuster against Alito? Quit acting like this is a new thing.
Clarence Darrow (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:48 AM)
__________

Yes, let's talk about the Alito filibuster, shall we? Wasn't it at that point when the GOP proposed doing away with being able to filibuster judicial appointments? Gee, I wonder how the GOP would feel about that idea today? How do *you* think they would feel about it today, hmmm?

Jackson, Seattle (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 12:26 PM)

Why not be more direct in the rulings stating; it's a waste of tax payer money to detain the illegals for these crimes and to keep them here until deportation. Why not rule or create a demand from the foreign goverments to pay for the crimes of the illegals? Back charge their country for allowing the illegals to come over here.

Steve (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 12:32 PM)

In a unanimous ruling, the court said the government cannot charge illegal immigrants with identity theft unless there's evidence the immigrants know they're using someone else's ID information.

Ok wait a minute, if i obtain a SS number and its not from the SS Administration office, then i have to know i'm obtaining it illegally, that only make since. you have to know your using some elses SS number. the supreme court just droped the ball on this. if i know some one is doing something illegal but i don't ask them if it is, then there telling me i'm not at fault. OK and i have on empty house for sell, but i will not tell the person i'm selling it to its not mine to sell. ok.

Jeff D Evanston IL. (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 12:35 PM)

WTF?! If you're using a name that is not your own, then how can you NOT know you are using someone else's ID?

STUPIDITY like this is exactly why we need to throw the entire SCOTUS into a retirement home and get some people that are still in touch with reality!

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What you are not understanding - as pointed out by Mike, Lansing MI - it is not that the person using the fake ID doesn't KNOW that he is using a fake ID, it is that the person using the fake ID isn't using a PARTICULAR persons ID. That would be ID thief.

Understand the difference?

Carole, San Diego (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 12:45 PM)

So, tell them who's ssn it is and then bust 'em the next week if they are still using it....

Fed up... (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 1:11 PM)

Well, the wording of the law is clear. And so both right and left sides agreed. This is how it should work. The law may need to be reworked to cover the full intent, but the justices had to work with the law as is.

I don't care if president Obama selects a left-leaning or right-leaning justice. It really should not matter. We need a justice that will live up to the job--read the laws as is. Compassion is vital, but holding to the law is more so, for a supreme court justice. Compassion is better reflected in the wording and passage of laws. Then the justices should make the law hold to that. The justices are not to make the laws. They are not to revise them.

So right or left, conservative or liberal, if a justice will hold themselves within the actual job limits, then it is fine. Hopefully, this whole "empathy" flap will come down to both parties agreeing on that simple point.

A Voice (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 1:23 PM)

In regards to the decision on the illegal immigrants, I thought ignorance was no defense in the face of the law.

Bob Right (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 1:25 PM)

A most incompetent ruling, as false ID papers under the law should be considered identity theft by default.

I suppose I can now take advantage of those chop shop deals and pick up a new car for $500 whose registration papers are in a name other than mine.

stupidcourt (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 1:38 PM)

SS numbers are individual. There is no, "OOPS thought that was my number". NO, the numbers are unique to each citizen, therefore ANYONE using a SSN not theirs KNOWS it belongs to somebody. PERIOD. This is insanity, we already offer grants, acsess to bank accounts, welfare and our very jobs to these illegal aliens, why not just give them our identities too.

mr sinister (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 1:58 PM)

>>>And if you don’t like my posts then why do you continually read them? Hmmm?
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:52 AM)
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That's standard rightie response for postings they don't like, but know are true, Red. Take it as a compliment.

>>>I encourage everyone who wants to criticize any court opinion to read it first.
Mike, Lansing MI (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:56 AM)
==========
You're actually expecting the righties who post here to READ something BEFORE formulating an opinion? Sorry, but that's against standard right-wing law, as laid down by Lord Limbaugh. The must take their opinions from him, or be forced out of the club.

http://jawillie.blog.com

jawillie, Philadelphia, PA. (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 2:11 PM)

American IDs are the most sought after in the world. This ruling makes it easier to illegally use one plain and simple. If they catch you all you have to do now is say 'I didn't know it belonged to a real person!' and you will get off. Great victory for criminals and BOTH parties supported it. Reps&Dems are elitists. Until you people get it through your heads BOTH parties will keep walking all over you because neither one cares about people all they want is power, fame, and fortune.

Mike, Houston, TX (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 2:28 PM)

You say tomayto, I say tomoto. No matter how you say it, this was a bad, bad decision. I've been the victim of someone using my social security number and I had to pay the IRS dearly because they assumed wrongfully, that I made more money in a given year than I actually did. If the illegal immigrant can't be charged with identity theft for not knowing "whose" social security number he used; then I shouldn't have to pay the IRS since I don't know who used my number. He got away with his crime, whoever he was and I was left holding the bag (having to pay the IRS taxes on money I never received.) How can that possibly be fair to me? It's not, and I don't care to be fair to an illegal immigrant using a social security number that is not his or hers. I'm tired of being "fair" to these illegals.

Anonymous2, Long Beach, CA (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 3:20 PM)

Hey filthy red head, what do you have to offer? certianly not an educated or insightful post.
B, La. (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 11:31 AM)

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Anyone else notice the poetic irony of this post?

Ted, Mid Michigan (Sent Monday, May 04, 2009 3:31 PM)

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