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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



WH to delay release of abuse photos

Posted: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 12:51 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: ,

From NBC's Jim Miklaszewski


Defense and military officials tell NBC News that White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs will announce that President Obama will seek to delay the release of hundreds of photos which reportedly depict the abuse of prisoners by U.S. military in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Gen. Ray Odierno, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq met with President Obama at the White House yesterday to ask the administration not to release the photos. Defense officials say Odierno is "vehemently opposed" to the release, because he fears it could create a widespread "backlash" against military forces in both war zones. According to one official, "It would put a bull's eye on the backs of our forces."

According to military officials, many of the photos are similar to the infamous prisoner abuse photos out of Abu Ghraib prison, but many of these photos reportedly include mug shots of prisoners who appear to have been badly beaten during their capture or interrogation.

The photos were gathered in the course of dozens of military investigations of prisoner abuse between 2001 and 2006. Pentagon officials say 400 individual service members have faced disciplinary action, either criminal convictions or non-juidicial punishment as a result of the investigations.

The American Civil Liberties Union has sought the release of the photos and won a lawsuit against the U.S. government before the federal appeals court in New York. The only legal option left for the government was to appeal the decision to the Supreme Court. Instead, the Obama administration had earlier made the decision to end the appeals and release the photos.

NBC's John Yang adds, for the record, the White House version of events from a senior administration official:

Last week, the President met with his legal team and told them that he did not feel comfortable with the release of the DOD photos because he believes their release would endanger our troops, and because he believes that the national security implications of such a release have not been fully presented to the court. At the end of that meeting, the President directed his counsel to object to the immediate release of the photos on those grounds.

Yesterday, during a meeting at the White House, the President raised the issue of these photos with General Odierno and told him of his decision to argue against this release. Through his actions from the first days of his administration, the President has made it clear that the United States will hold itself and all the men and women who serve our country to the highest standards of conduct.

The President would be the last to excuse the actions depicted in these photos. That is why the Department of Defense investigated these cases, and why individuals have been punished through prison sentences, discharges, and a range of other punitive measures. But the President strongly believes that the release of these photos, particularly at this time, would only serve the purpose of inflaming the theaters of war, jeopardizing US forces, and making our job more difficult in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Comments

Finally, something the Obama administration is doing that I can agree with.
This is a mistake. It's why people are believing more than ever that Obama is NOT on America's side in the war on terror.

Why does Obama side with the terrorists on many issues? Why the bowing to the Saudis? Why do the detainees get freedom?

Maybe because Obama is not the American he says he is. Whose side is he really on? Legitimate question.

Don't apologize for me and my country. Apologize for the radical that you were and obviously still are.
Argh.  What a rock-and-hard-place scenario.  I agree with the ACLU that the photos ought to be in the public domain, but I hate to think of them being used for al-Qaida/Taliban recruitment posters.  
Good call Mr. President . . . just the knowledge that there are such photos is horrific enough . . .

I wonder who thought it would be a good idea to take these photos in the first place?

That's the conundrum of the Bush Administration -
on the one hand, they know they are breaking the law . . . but on the other hand they are too  . . . what's the word . . . dumb? . . . inept? . . . to cover it up.

I admire President Obama for doing what is best for our troops and not just what is best for himself politically.





I think it is a good thing that these photos are not released.  I can totally see how they could possibly embolden our enemies.  But most of all it is a reminder to the world what Cheney and Bush have done.  But I do wish the President would let the Justice Deparment do their due diligence and follow the evidence and prosecute EVERYONE at the top who approved of these methods.  I also think the troops on the ground who carried out the torture orders need to be fully exonerated and cleard of all legal prosecutions, retroactively.  I am praying for the day I see Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Ashcroft, et. al parading on my TV screen in their orange jumpsuits with J-A-I-L written on their backs!
I am soooo glad about this!!!  Way to go Mr Pres, I for one have seen enough.  The fact that Bush and the Dick made us all responsible for this action makes me sick.  We all, all know the truth.  Hold the elected officials accountable for this, and will someone please tell the Dick to STFU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's too bad Dick and George didn't think about the "backlash" against American soldiers before they ordered the torture.
I have been and am an Obama supporter, but I feel that this is the wrong decision. The photographs should be released; people know we have done this any way, and the first step to regaining any good will is to acknowledge it, not sweep it under the rug. A real disappointment, I have to say.
As painful and risky as it is, we must release all the evidence so that we see and know the truth about these and other Bush/Cheney war crimes. These photos will help defeat the arguments of those who now argue that a "few bad apples" at Abu Gahraib engaged in these un-American and inhumane acts. That 400 service members have been punished for these crimes at many locations proves that the violations of law and decency were systematic. The policy and tone came from the top. This is not a "policy difference." This is about criminality, and about setting the precendent that those who break the law, no matter how high the office, will not be allowed to violate American and international law and values and get away with it.
Sadly, we don't need more pictures to know what abuses went on and why put our servicemen and women at further risk?  I agree with the President on this call.
Scooter is right:

"It's too bad Dick and George didn't think about the "backlash" against American soldiers before they ordered the torture."

They are the ones who put our soldiers at additional risk with the way they treated the prisoners. We must show the world that we Americans take responsibility for our actions, even if they were criminal and sub-human actions. And we must also show the world that we will punish those who order such crimes.
I agree, these photo shouldn't be release and these are one of those occassions where the ACLU needs to just chill.
Oh yeah... Nice one.
The World leader... Nice one... Really!
Good, Pres Obama listens to his military staff and advisers.  Too bad Bush and Cheney didn't listen to military staff who advised that more troops were needed and those who advised that Iraq was not the direction to head; instead, they relied on Rumsfeld.  

I was concerned about releasing the photos for many reasons, also am not sure we need to see thousands of pictures like those in Abu Ghraib.  We know what we have done but we can get to the bottom of this without jeopardizing our troops who are still in harm's way.  

Agree, it's too bad that Bush/Cheney didn't think about the backlash against soldiers before they decided to allow torture.  Still waiting for either one to come clean on who was really responsible for Abu Ghraib.  
I for one am torn between them releasing the photos and waiting till another time or not releasing them at all. With the latest news from the war zone being that an American soldier killing five other American soldiers, I don't think this would be a wise move.

We are now aware horrible misconduct that took place under the last Administration and I would argue it would be enough that those responsible for the policies that were enacted be prosecuted. Our men and women in uniform will go through enough without this added layer of controversy. Again, what would releasing these photos accomplish?—simply more reinforcement that the last administration was deplorable during their tenure. I for one do not envy the position with puts the President in.
I agree that with Obama.  Releasing these photos is not in our national securities best interest and he should fight this release order to the Supreme Court.  With all the other things which are redacted and sealed in investigations, I see no reason for our government to release our own photos about abuses, when it will give our enemies more recruitent tools. A picture is worth a thousand words and our laws should not require the disclosure of anything that endangers Americans.
Get real Dave. There are dirty parts of all wars. We shouldn't reveal picutures (without context) so that our enemies can use them as propoganda. You really answered your own question. If we already know what we did, then the photos serve no purpose other than inciting our enemies. I wwouldn't release our worst photos unless they're accompanied by all the pictures of beheadings or car bomb massacres done by the other side.
A nation can not move forward. If justice is allowed to fall backwards. The photographs no matter how disturbing they are must be released. The 8 past years of the Bush-Cheney Government policies of deception of information, secrecy of policies, rewriting legalities, and denying information exists must end. The Bush-Cheney made it a common political practice to keep everyone in the dark politically. Especially the Democrats, that Cheney hates with all his evil convictions. Remember America! Hey! hey! Ho! Ho! The party of no has got to go!!
I wonder who thought it would be a good idea to take these photos in the first place?

That's the conundrum of the Bush Administration -
on the one hand, they know they are breaking the law . . . but on the other hand they are too  . . . what's the word . . . dumb? . . . inept? . . . to cover it up.


Nashville_fan (Sent Wednesday, May 13, 2009 1:10 PM)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Know anyone serving? They're all taking pictures left and right, and these are the one confiscated by the military after investigations. So using your logic every photo taken from now on would have been ordered by Obama?
Dave, this is not sweeping under the rug.  We all know the truth.  Why should we have to see more of the horrible crimes commited?  I do't think pictures are going to do anything to change the mind set Cheney and the like have.  I believe they all will go to their graves believing they did the right thing.  Judgement will be left to divine Providence.    
Dave, this is not sweeping under the rug.  We all know the truth.  Why should we have to see more of the horrible crimes committed?  I don't think pictures are going to do anything to change the mind set Cheney and the like have.  I believe they all will go to their graves believing they did the right thing.  Judgment  will be left to divine Providence.    
I regret my vote more and more each day.  This is the Bush nightmare Part III.
Dave, Arkansas;  I don't believe the President is trying to cover anything up. I believe he has acknowledged the wrong doings.  I agree with not releasing the photos if it means that our brave troops will have one less target on their backs while protecting us.  The men & women still over there fighting these wars are not the ones in the pictures, not the ones who did these terrible things, but they sure as heck would be the ones the enemy would make pay the price if those pictures are released.  Good decision Mr. President.
That's it. Don't make America own up to its complicity in the torture of other human beings. This torture was done in all of our names, especially the dunces who thought this was a good idea.

By the way, how many torture supporters ever served or all of you just tough talkers? Have you ever been a POW like Mccain or is he just a big weenie in your opinion when he says torture is sadistic and doesn't work?
Whether, or not, the photos are released to the general public, they do exist.  It does not change any of the facts that the Bush Administration waterboarded prisoners.  It is not necessary to see the photos to prove that war crimes were committed.
Since it is now clear that Pelosi was briefed knew about the methods she is part of the issue even though she is now lying about what she knew. Where was her outrage over these methods then?  There is another issue.  The "torture" is exactly what we have done and continue to do to our service members as part of their training.  My son had it done to him, including waterboarding.  If this is torture, then why hasn't President Obama banned it from DoD training?  This is a problem for him.  If he bans it from training then he can be criticized for not adequatly training our troops. Its hypocritical to ban it from our enemies while at the same time allow it to train our troops.
This is what happens when you listen to attornies.  They give you bad advice and then run from the decisions.

Waterboard ALL lawyers.

Presidential company included!
The Presisdent does support our troops AND he listens to council from commanders and is willing to change positions when necessary. He is NOT "playing to the cheap seats".

I see agreement from both sides on this matter. Clearly, in this case we had what I'd call "misplaced agression". The combo of the fear and anger that we all felt after 911 got translated into both bad policies AND criminal acts.

Let's get to the bottom of this once and for all, but inside the legal system without unnecessary fanfare.
I agree with Lisa, FL. The only fanfare I want to see will come when ALL the higher ups responsible for this get their trendy orange jumbsuits!

I also agree with Nash that President Obama looks to support the troops and considers policies that support the greater good, not just his own political issues.

Bravo Mr. President! You are clearly a decider who can make the tough calls. The rightys have nothing to complain about this time.

Prosecute the REAL war criminal, not just the grunts~!

Eric in Salinas is going to be crushed at this news.  
This is the right decision.  While the ACLU would love to attempt to embarrass the Bush administration at any cost, voluntarily releasing these photos would do far more harm than good.

Judging by the comments, it appears even the left's bloodthirst for revenge has limits.
 
What a shame - I wanted to see a picture of the caterpiller they used.

Was it pretty with little fuzzy hairs.
Or has it already turned into a butterfly.

Maybe we can get the caterpiller to testify before congress.  

Come on caterpiller...  What did you know and when did you know it?  

Caterpiller, did you know you were torturing those terrorists when you crawled next to them?  Did you intentionally voilate there "space"?  

Did the caterpiller read them their meranda rights before he crawled on them?

------------------------------

Hey MSNBC - why no mention of...

1.)Obama sending triple the money to Pakistan -

2.)Pakistan tripling there production of nuke weopons

3.)in Taliban controlled areas

Directly or Indirectly - Obama is supplying the Taliban with Nukes

And MSNBC reports on it - on the tiny side notes only.

If this were Bush it would be the ONLY TITLE ON YOUR PAGE

Your Obama Love affair is showing again - pull up your pants.
I agree - we don't need anymore pressure placed on our troops and this would have certainly done more harm than good.

Thank you and GOD BLESS AMERICA
How will the GOP spin this. Fortunate Son thinks that this shows he is still siding with terrorists. Isn't that "tortured" logic. I for one agree that we have seen enough of these photos. They only have use now in a court of law.
Thank you for this decision President Obama, we know that torture was used and the release of the photos neither add nor take away from that fact. What it does and will do is to remind other countries of how angry they were at the United States and undo the type of peace and harmony you are trying to errect. This would be a act of going backwards for sure.

The President is a man of class, style and dignity and releasing these photos, even if it meant running them right next to Bush saying "the United States DOES NOT TORTURE" is not worth loosing his integrity.
I applaud the President for his decision. We don't need to see the photos to get the "picture". Having the photos out there for public consumption would only inflame and enrage the jihadists.

That detainees were abused  cannot be disputed. We do not have to see their bruised and battered bodies. It would be one thing if we knew definitively that they were all terrorists but that is not the case. We now know that some of them were in the wrong place at the wrong time and just picked up as enemy combatants (old men and children included).
OK - one more time for all the simpletons out there (I'm talking to you fortunate son):

Closing Gitmo does not mean the people being held there are going to be set free.  It doesn't mean they will roam the streets of the USA and it doesn't mean they will return to their home countries to fight us some more.  The prison will be closed and the people being held there will be moved to other prisons.  Many will be moved to max security federal penitentaries like Ft. Levenworth.  These are not country clubs, and the chance of escape is next to nil... that chance is further reduced by the fact that nobody in these prisons is gonna help them, and if they did escape they would kinda stand out in the middle of Kansas, or Alaska or whereever they are put.
This is not the time to release those photos.  Time enough for that but we have to correct 8 years of Bush Cheney providing terrorist recruitment, why add fuel to the fire.
Fortunate Son, Which Americans "are believing more than ever that Obama is NOT on America's side in the war on terror."

Are they the other Cheney bitter-enders holed up in their Bavarian last stand?  Perhaps that shrinking 20% Republican rump.  Go peddle your fascist talking-points elsewhere.
This is a mistake. It's why people are believing more than ever that Obama is NOT on America's side in the war on terror.

Why does Obama side with the terrorists on many issues? Why the bowing to the Saudis? Why do the detainees get freedom?

Maybe because Obama is not the American he says he is. Whose side is he really on? Legitimate question.

Don't apologize for me and my country. Apologize for the radical that you were and obviously still are.
Fortunate Son
***************
Please report to your nearest Marine Corps recruiting station and sign up. Like most conservatives, you claim to be patriot but are afraid to fight like the former,  vice pres, and limpballs who both received deferments during the Viet Nam War. The president made the right decision to protect our servicemen and women. You see I have a vested interest because I speak as a blue star father whose daughter is deploying in harms way tomorrow to treat our servicemen who are suffering from PTSD. As a Pyschiatric Nurse Practitioner she will be seeing, experiencing, and listening to horrors
that are only abstractions to the likes of you.  The poverty of intellect you and your conservative cohorts display on this blog are appalling to any critical thinking human being.  So crawl back into your hole and please take the former VP with you.
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him

e.e. cummins wrote this how many years ago and yet it seems that there are still people that neede to see the pictures of the shattered lives of so many to understand that war brings out the most cowardly acts humans can inflict upon one and other.....

It's bad enough when there is a justification for the war....and then there is Iraq.

Ob ama is wise in seeking a delay in hte release of these pictures.  As much as I understand and respect the work of the ACLU it seems rather pointless to provide motivtion to people that never want the wounds to heal.


I am so glad that the president isn't releasing the torture photos.  

From the photos that I have already seen I am disgusted.  To show the rest of them to the world would only inflame those that are not quite motivated enough to become terrorist into strapping on the bomber vests.  What the US did was illegal.  It was ugly and the people of the US and the world know it.  Showing pictures of still more torture victims wont add anything to the judgement at this point.  The US is guilty.  

What would make a difference in being shown are photos of victims tortured by terrorist states.  If there is anything in this that is unfair to the US it is that we are being judged so heavily by countries that have engaged in torture notoriously for centuries.  

Any of the nations comprising Asia or the Middle East that are crying foul are crying rather hollow.  And lets not leave out Russia and the old Warsaw Pact nations.  Now there are some torturers that know how to make you scream.

And although I feel it would be a good reality check for the rest of the world to show the rest of the world's torture photos, the question will ever remain, why did the US stoop to this?
Jim: We do not "torture" our soldiers. We train our soldiers what to expect if they are captured and encounter this from the other side. You are merely repeating a "talking point" that tries to cover up the fact that the U. S. did use torture. And torture, by international law and our own morals, is illegal. If the U. S. acts like those other governments that care not for human rights by torturing, they we are no better than they.

Read about the Nazi trials that took place after WWII. Maybe that will help you understand our moral stature in the world.
I am fine with Obama's decision, the photos will be released someday anyway. But with Obama's infant presidency I must admit I'm getting tired of seeing Bush/Cheney dirty laundry spewed every day, I want a clean slate. We know what happned but I feel like now is not the time to complicate matters for our nation. And as far as commenters like Fortunate Son it tells alot that right wing posts like his are made without regard for the actual content of the article. I think we have some paid commenters here.
One, the president's decision to "delay release: is a clever ruse. By doing so, he can play both sides. he is "for justice" but also "for military". This is his best move politically. Not necessarily the best move for the country, but for his political future. Just wait a bit, when the next round of photos/memos get released, there will also be a cautionary "rethinking" before the new info is released. Obama = politician.

Note how "many of these photos reportedly include mug shots of prisoners who appear to have been badly beaten during their capture or interrogation"? If a terrorist fights being captured and gets hurt in process, this will look and be accused of torture. How to tell the difference? Sure sounds like some people don't care about the truth. Both right and left. The right will blow it off, the left will always say it was Bush's fault.
Yes, the techniques used are part of training but there's a difference between knowing your friends are waterboarding you and won't hurt you, the fear and stress are there but it can't compare to waterboarding someone 183 times in one month.  I don't necessarily agree with using these techniques as training but also recognize they can prepare a soldier for the worse.  If waterboarding had been used once or twice on suspected terrorists even though it was against our laws, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation but 268 times on 3 people is definitely torture.
I am conflicted about the release of the photos. I am all for transparency, but I'm not sure that releasing incendiary photos might not be counterproductive.  They say a picture is worth a thousand words and there is no point in exacerbating the furor of the countrymen of these detainees.  We know what happened.  I think investigations should be done and prosecutions as appropriate, but I don't think we need to provide graphic pictures to those who will use them against us.
Also,why would anyone think that the Guantanamo detainees who are guilty would be just freed?  Incarceration is incarceration and it doesn't matter whether they are incarcerated in Guantanamo or San Quentin or a secure military prison, they are still
incarcerated and will not be wandering around our country causing trouble.  
This is a tough one.   On the one hand you've got to respect President Obama's decision to put our brave soldiers first and to listen to his military advisers.  It is certainly unfortunate the prior administration had neither in mind when they decided to approve the use of torture.

On the other hand I have to wonder if, as painful as it will be right now, it wouldn't be better to release the photos now, take ownership of our past misdeeds and continue to rebuild the many foreign relationships that were completely destroyed by the Bush regime.

I am thankful we have a responsible President who listens to his advisers, weighs the pros and cons and makes intelligent, thoughtful decisions.
The President is doing the right thing. If we release these pictures than we need to reqest that all TV outlets begin rerunning the tapes of the 9/11 attacks and the scenes showing innocent people jumping 100 stories to their death. Also request that the beheading of Daniel Pearl be run in its entirety. That the decapitated bodies of american soldiers killed by Al Quieda be shown. All these on the same news programs with the release of the detainee pictures. Lets see what the ACLU (founded by communists you know) has to say then. Lets compare what shocks our fellow countrymen to the real world of torture.


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