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Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Obama agenda: Photo reversal

Posted: Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:36 AM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under:

The New York Times says Obama “said Wednesday that he would fight to prevent the release of photographs documenting abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan by United States military personnel, reversing his position on the issue after commanders warned that the images could set off a deadly backlash against American troops.” 

Video: In a statement given at the White House, President Obama explains why he is trying to block the release of photos that allegedly show U.S. troops abusing prisoners.

The Washington Post: “Civil liberties and human rights advocates said the reversal would serve to maintain the Bush administration's legacy of secrecy. Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, said Obama's shift was ‘deeply disappointing.’ ‘Even given that the photos will undoubtedly generate outrage in the region, the best way to dampen that outrage is to hold those responsible accountable,’ Roth said.”

The AP: “In reversing itself and blocking the release of photos of U.S. military personnel abusing detainees, the Obama administration claims to have found a new legal argument. It hasn't. What the administration has found is a way to pass the buck to the courts… The administration has also found a way to avoid distribution of the photographs just before Obama travels to Egypt to speak directly to Muslims… [T]he Bush administration already argued against the release on national security grounds -- and lost. ACLU lawyer Jameel Jaffer said that argument ‘has been made by the government multiple times, and has been rejected unequivocally every time.’”

Meanwhile, the New York Times front-pages that congressional Democrats “are voicing growing unease over the Obama administration’s national security policies, including the seemingly open-ended commitment in Afghanistan and the nettlesome question of what to do with prisoners held at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.”

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One of the things that I like about President Obama is that he listens and learns. I'm sure some will attack him for flip flopping. But what I see is that he listens to his staff and makes decisions based on input. What he has found is that things weren't quite as clear as he thought during the campaign. So now he's got to rethink things.

That's fine and in my mind, far preferable to having a President that decides he wants to go to war with a country and "stays the course" no matter what the evidence, advice, or situation.

I haven't liked or agreed with everything President Obama has done, but I don't think that is realistic. In general, he's taking us in the right direction and doing the right things.
President Obama is making a huge mistake not releasing the 2,000 photos that show the torture club in action.  I was truly disappointed in Barack as he regurgitated the lying bushwhacker line that there were a few bad apples at Abu Graib that did this when we all know the few bad apples were in the White House pressing for this abuse to happen.  Crooked Odierno and McKiernan were both in Iraq when the Abu Graib crimes happenmed and both aren't worried about our troops but about their own careers and that's why they lied to Brarack to keep the photos secret still.  They will come out and the longer it takes the more they will get tied to Barack instead of the War Criminals.  Remember Barack the coverup is worse than the crime.  Until the photos are relased the whole world will wonder what you're hiding and that will be a recruiting tool for the Taliban and al-Qaida and will put our troops more in harm's way.

I really enjoy Keith Olbermann's new segment "WTF!?! Moment".  I sure enjoyed him ripping the pathetic Republic Facist Party party passing a resolution to ask Democrats to rebrand their own party name.  We see just how juvenile these old codgers of sore losers are as they whine about party names instead of focusing on the important issues.  No wonder so many moderates are leaving their disgusting party of liars and whiners.

I mean isn't confession good for the soul?

What a joke that some are whining that President Obama is revealing our enhanced torture techniques to the world.  First off our own SERE program was set up to counter interrogation techniques of the Chinese and Soviets back in the Cold War so the secret of our newfound sinful torture techniques is nothing new and is common knowledge around the world.  Get over it dimwits waterboarding is torture and has been until the immoral bushwhacker began his reign of terror 8 years ago.

Prosecute War Criminals Bush and Cheney!
Release the Photos!
The New York Times is a failing newspaper that is attacking America on all fronts. You can no longer believe a word they print.

Thanks to Obie for the photo reversal. He would have melted under the heat he would have taken had he allowed them to be released, although I'm sure they will find their way to public view eventually.

The Navy Seals are waterboarded as part of their training, in case Erica in Salinas didn't know.
I'm at a quandry about releasing the photos. Initially, I was angry and thought here we go again no accountability for these career politicians under the Bush administration and their toady and lackey attornys. Than I feel that's it not right to put more of a target on our troops back and opening up more of pandora's box by inflaming the anti-American hatred in the middle east ALL THANKS TO THE LYING/ILLEGAL WAR CRIMINICALS OF THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION.
There's a possibility that many seem to not be considering here...

President Obama, in his decision to not release the photographs, may be looking to force the hand of the courts.  He may very well want the photos to be released, but he may be looking for the courts to order the release of the photos.
No use giving a blank check to the terrorist or anyone that needs to hate...
but let's show some good things we can do for others and ourselves too..
The Washington Post: “Civil liberties and human rights advocates said the reversal would serve to maintain the Bush administration's legacy of secrecy. Kenneth Roth, executive director of Human Rights Watch, said Obama's shift was ‘deeply disappointing.’ ‘Even given that the photos will undoubtedly generate outrage in the region, the best way to dampen that outrage is to hold those responsible accountable,’ Roth said.”

*************************************************

You don't have to worrry about his decision maintaining the Bush administration's legacy of secrecy. Cheney is taking care of making sure its  not going to be a secret and that its constantly in the face of the american people. He is also revealing what so many already knew it wasn't a Bush Adminstration it was the "CHENEY ADMINISTRATION" and he is defending it like all get out.


Obama was threatened with resignation of key national security personnel if he released the photos. He cannot lose their credibility on defense matters, so he went against his own ideology - out of fear.
CONSERVATIVES ARE HAVING AN EFFECT ON CONTROLLING OBAMA'S INSANITY --- THIS 'REVERSAL OF AN INSANE OBAMA DECISION' PROVES IT.

GO CONSERVATIVES --- KEEP HAMMERING OBAMA!

THe main theme I'v concluded after reading this is that if Bush did it, it is bad, If Bush coveres it up it is bad, If Obama covers it up it is good.  Looks like we have som bright ones here....
Whatsa matter Eric? Did you allow Bush and Cheney to really piss you off? Doesn't take much, does it?

Did the terrorists taking down the Twin Towers make you mad too? Not as much I'll bet.
Its great to know there is such true patriots as Eric,betcha he wished we would have lost the Iraq war,but he supported the troops.He also beleives anything Nancy Pelosi and the Clintons speak which simply makes him an idiot.It will be partisan hacks such as Eric who will be the downfall of this once great christian nation.
The photo's are disgusting and I am so damn happy that they aren't being released anymore. What the hell do we need to keep seeing those disgusting, disturbing photos over and over againg on in the "MEDIA" for? I thank him for considering the safety of our troops.

How do you think that those people in their countries feel??? Thank you Mr. President.
Ok folks.  Being the old hippie liberal tree hugger type who lives in the Colorado Mountains, I have to say. Trust Obama.  I do not say this lightly. I worked in the Federal Government for years, and most folks only see bits and pieces of what is really going on. The idea of Obama giving this to the judicial system is absolutely correct. Review your high school social studies for the division of power, and don’t be in such a big hurry to get justice done. From my experience, the hand of justice is slow, but steady when welded in the proper hands. I think that in the coming years, all of this horrible time in American history will come to light, and justice will be served.  Saying this, it is also important to understand that the powerful and wealthy NEVER get the same punishment that “Joe the Middle-Class Chump” would get.  This is not right, but this is the way it is. I will call this a success if we let the world know that we have seen our mistakes, and taken precautions to never repeat them.  For some, this is not the kind of justice that they would want, but look at history. After WWII, we took in some of the most sociopathic individuals in both the German army and the Japanese military who did all sorts of unspeakable atrocities on there fellow human, and put them to work in our military industrial complex, giving them full immunity, and a good paycheck. This is not moral, but right now, we have to look to the big picture, which is what Obama is doing. Peace
YES ... OBAMA "LISTENS AND LEARNS" ...

HE FINALLY LISTENED TO THOSE WHO WARNED HIM ON THIS 'TORTURE NONSENSE' THAT IN POLITICS TWO THINGS ARE CERTAIN:

1.)  THE OPPOSITION WILL ALWAYS RETURN TO POWER; and

2.)  WHAT GOES AROUND, COMES AROUND.

ALSO, REVENGE IS SWEET.
Not releasing the photos is a wise move. They don't provide any more information or evidence than the public already has and would be better seen at a trial, a war crimes trial if necessary. Furthermore all they will do, if released, is spark more recruiting for Al Qaeda and The Taliban.
The Navy Seals are waterboarded as part of their training, in case Erica in Salinas didn't know.

Waterboarding Committee (Sent Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:52 AM)

---------------------------------------

Ah, so just because our Navy SEALS are trained for the experience of having such techniques applied to them that makes it okay for us to do it to an alleged terrorist?
The New York Times says ....
The New York Times Says ....

When you open with that line you lose all your credibility.
Detainee Interrogation Photos Leak

Long suppressed photographs from interrogations conducted in secret CIA facilities have leaked and give a chilling picture of the long term damage caused by the so called enhanced techniques.

http://breakingwynd.blogspot.com
Does it seem silly to anyone else that there is such a huge push for the photos.  Do you think that just maybe the push for the photos is really being personified by the media.  Dang, photos like that would be huge gruesome news that can get played for for weeks, maybe even months.  People would be careening to the media's websites, newspapers, magazines, radio and TV for a glimpse. Maybe, just maybe the President is right for once and with advice from the leaders of our troops abroad, is making a stand to save a few lives. Just wait and see; the photos get released... a mob riot breaks out...more troops are injured or killed.  The only winners here are the media companies.
Quote: "Even given that the photos will undoubtedly generate outrage in the region, the best way to dampen that outrage is to hold those responsible accountable"

That assumes that radical muslims react reasonably.  They haven't so far. The photos will become a teaching tool to generate more hate and justify their program.  We know it happened.  We're all sorry.  Why refuel the fire and influence another generation of terrorists?  
Chris - IL

I couldn't agree with you more!  Releasing the photo's wouldn't have hurt you or I, but it would have hurt all of our servicemen abroad.

We saw the 1st group of pics - enough is enough...

Perhaps they could include them in the next printing of the Army manual, to show what can happen under a corrupt administration.
The Navy Seals are waterboarded as part of their training, in case Erica in Salinas didn't know.

Waterboarding Committee (Sent Thursday, May 14, 2009 9:52 AM)
____________________________________________________

It might be just a little different when you volunteer for the military, volunteer for the seals, have the option to "quit" at any time (if it's too much), and your own "team mates" are the ones waterboarding. That isn't quite the same as someone that obviously hates you repeatedly dunking you and for all you know, eventually kill you.
I for one will not second guess Obama.  He has shown himself to be a clear thinker who takes into consideration any information he receives.  If he truly thinks our troops would be in danger then I believe him.  It's not like the abuses of the Bush administration are a secret or that Obama wants to continue them.  Let's give it time and see what happens.
No, if Bush covered it up, it was bad.  If the new administration covers it up, it is still BAD!  By not releasing them, we are connecting ourselves to them instead of moving ahead and away from them.  So Obama is saying, tsk tsk, these photos are terrible... but only I can see them!  Stupid.
Well Eric you seem to be in the minority on the photo release issue. I think the President is taking a longer view and seeking to protect the troops. If some general who were involved in the process get cover it will only be a temporary and hollow victory.

On Hardball last night Chris actually negotiated a reasonable compromise that both the ACLU and the Vets for Freedom guys agreed to. The photos along with all other pertinent evidence can be shown the the indepedent commission and they can decide what to do with those responsible for this.

The ACLU can appeal to the Supremes if they choose as that is their right. Meanwhile the President's team can work on Iraq withdrawl and the new plan in the Afghan war. I see this a not a stall tactic on the part of the WH, but a way to cool emotions that are running very hot on this issue.

Remember that the intelligence community knows things that that they cannot make public. In due time the "bushwackers" and any Dems who where involved with the torture matter and the cover up of same will be held accountable. That is the way the system works, slowly.

Most of the rest here seem to support the President albeit for different reasons. Note that Barack Obama is everyone's President, even when we do not agree with a specific call or policy

Meanwhile, we have lots of other fish to fry to rebuuild the economy, regain international respect and get our folks back from these two war zones

Slow and steady wins the race!
What's been interesting to me is how Pres Obama shifts his position once he understands the magnitude and intricacies of the problem or issue he's addressing. For example, throughout his campaign he was emphatic about withdrawing troops from Iraq within 16 months of being in office. Once he was briefed by the military in December, however, his position changed.

Same here I suspect. Once he was briefed about possible outcomes his position changed. What this tells me is that he can be thoughtful and introspective and not afraid to change his mind. I only hope that as he matures in this office more of that thoughtfulness will happen sooner rather than later during his decision making. Personally, I don't think releasing the memos themselves was wise. What was released only represents part of the story and incited fury and retribution.

Instead, let's quietly take care of it and make sure it doesn't happen again. This course of action doesn't equate to a cover up as some suggest. I don't understand why everyone thinks we have to air our dirty laundry to the world all the time.

BTW, Eric in Salinas, you listen to too much Keith Olberman. He's a hack. Broaden your horizons.
Obama could end this nonsense by affirming that the photos compromise national security, thereby qualifying for one of the stated exemptions under the Freedom of Information Act:

  http://www.usdoj.gov/oip/foi-act.htm

But he has no intention of blocking their release.  Instead he's continuing to drag it through the courts with some inane "new legal argument" that he knows will fail.  Clearly he will release the photos despite the immense damage it will do to our nation but be able to claim that he tried ever so hard to stop their release.

Plausible deniability.  That's his MO.  That's how he got away with calling Sarah Palin a pig (complete with the pregnant pause for the laugh) and with flipping Hillary the bird.  
It will be partisan hacks such as Eric who will be the downfall of this once great christian nation.  Roger Clinton

Whatever happened to the rights granted to us by our forefathers, freedom of religion.  Calling this nation a "Christian" nation insults our founding fathers.  They may have been Christian, but they also understood the problems of basing a country's laws on a specific religion.  If you need proof, just look at those in the Islam religion who want to set up an "Islamic State" government, run on the tenents of their religion.  That is what the Taliban tried to do in Afghanistan and is what they are trying to currently do in Pakistan.  Is that how you want our world to be?  A division of peoples based on religion?  If so, then you, my friend, are working to give our world what is described in the last book of the Bible, the last days.  

OBAMA "LISTENS AND LEARNS" ABOUT POLITICS ... - Too bad you don't take your own advice.  Your anger overwhelms any point you are attempting to make.

No, if Bush covered it up, it was bad.  If the new administration covers it up, it is still BAD!  By not releasing them, we are connecting ourselves to them instead of moving ahead and away from them.  So Obama is saying, tsk tsk, these photos are terrible... but only I can see them!  Stupid.
Matt Jay, Columbus, Ohio

Matt, if you are referring to releasing the photos, I have to ask, what possible logical reason is there for releasing them to the general public?  The fact is there is no logical reason to release them to the general public.  If there was a coverup, let those who work in that field discover the coverup, not leave it to "vigilante" political wannabees.  Let those in the position bring charges if deemed crimes were committed.
I have absolutely no need to see the photos.  I'm not in a position to render judgement in any "legal" way.  So what possible use is it to let me see them?  None.  I have no need or desire to see photos of abuses I know occur.  Unlike others, I have no morbid curiousity to see death and destruction in order to understand that it exists.
Bob King, Bellvue, Colorado

Your posting is right on target.
Maybe someone showed Obama some footage of the world trade center collapse or an american getting his head cut off by a fanatic and he finally had a moment of clarity.  The Taliban are marching on Pakistan.  They will eventually have nukes.  They will attempt to smuggle one into NY.  Not such a great idea to destroy our intelligence agencies.
re:
"The Navy Seals are waterboarded as part of their training, in case Erica in Salinas didn't know."

Former Minnesota governor (and former Navy SEAL) Jesse Ventura was on CNN with Larry King on Monday night:

   VENTURA:  I don't watch much TV. This year's reading, I covered Bush's life. I covered Guantanamo and a few other subjects.
   And I'm very disturbed about it.
   I'm bothered over Guantanamo because it seems we've created our own Hanoi Hilton. We can live with that?  I have a problem.
   I will criticize President Obama on this level; it's a good thing I'm not president because I would prosecute every person that was involved in that torture. I would prosecute the people that did it. I would prosecute the people that ordered it. Because torture is against the law.

   LARRY KING: You were a Navy SEAL.

   VENTURA: That's right. I was water boarded, so I know -- at SERE School, Survival Escape Resistance Evasion. It was a required school you had to go to prior to going into the combat zone, which in my era was Vietnam. All of us had to go there. We were all, in essence -- every one of us was waterboarded. It is torture.

   KING: What was it like?

   VENTURA:  It's drowning. It gives you the complete sensation that you are drowning. It is no good, because you -- I'll put it to you this way, you give me a waterboard, Dick Cheney and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders.
While it is beneficial for Americans to see the degrading methods and tourture we have used against our so-called enemies; such photos cause more people to take up arms against U.S. soldiers.

Since many Americans cannot put themselves in other people's shoes; they don't seem to recognize that many of the people who are trying to kill American soldiers do so because of the Abu Ghraib photos that came out a few years ago, or knowledge that there cousin was detained and abused or an uncle was killed in the "Shock and Awe" bombing of Baghdad in 2003.

Of course the right-wing doesn't consider this; since they think Muslims are savages and inferior to us anyway; therefore consider their lives to be worthless. "But we are bringing them democracy/freedom; so any hardship they suffer is worth it!"

My point is a lot of these people who would happily kill American soldiers didn't have a grudge against our people/country (nor were terrorists) until we invaded Iraq.

Therefore, while I think publishing these abuse/torture photos would be a beneficial slap in the face to many Americans; I think such photos will generate an additional 10,000+ people in the Middle East who would take up arms against our American soldiers who would not have done so othewise.
Obama is just switching blame to the courts when the blow-back comes after the release of the photos. He could stop their release throught a veto he has in the Freedom of Information Act.
How about releasing the third of a million dollar photo of The Chosen One's personal air taxi frightening the hell out of New Yorkers!

The US Air Force is only supposed to be lending fighter escort to Air Force One for photo shoots or flying Barack and his wife around to Valentines Day dinner, fashion shows, ribbon cutting events, apologizing to world leaders or any other personal air taxi services The Chosen One feels the US taxpayer owes him.
As a Liberal, I am going with Gates, Petraeus and the CIA on this one.  Good call on NOT releasing the photos.  Doesn't 24/& Cable News have enough to address with your Agenda?

He is trying to do con on both sides of the fence.
If he really doesn't want the photos released...all he has to do is sign an excutive order.
How about releasing the third of a million dollar photo of The Chosen One's personal air taxi frightening the hell out of New Yorkers!

The US Air Force is only supposed to be lending fighter escort to Air Force One for photo shoots or flying Barack and his wife around to Valentines Day dinner, fashion shows, ribbon cutting events, apologizing to world leaders or any other personal air taxi services The Chosen One feels the US taxpayer owes him.
Tired Of Double Standard PC Democrats

Why in the world are you re-hashing old news.  

I also find it interesting that you refer to Obama as "the chosen one".  None of those I've talked to who supported Obama have ever referred to him in this manner.  For that matter, never heard anyone (Democrats included) refer to Bush, Reagan, or any other Republican that way.  The religious right wing of the Republican party will kill this country, all in the name of Christianity, therefore leading to the destruction of the earth.
No, I don't really believe that, but it sounds as idiotic as your post, so I thought you deserved a stupid response to your stupid comments.
 I can only pray that President Obama has the foresight to realize that releasing those photograph would further endanger our men and women in the middle east, not to mention the division in this country it would cause. My God people we have our sons and daughters in a live combat zone and you want those pictures exposed! We don't need our children killed so Pelosi can clear her no so good name. If one dies because of their release. then the politicians fighting for the release of these pictures will be responsible. Please President Obama PARDON IT. We have too many dead Americans as it is. We don't need to give the enemy more incentive to kill our people.


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