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First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



Obama agenda: Obama v. Cheney

Posted: Friday, May 22, 2009 9:29 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under: , , ,

“In back-to-back speeches, President Obama and former vice president Dick Cheney faced off yesterday, both forcefully presenting their sharply different views on how to keep America safe from terrorism, the effectiveness of harsh interrogations, and whether the 240 Guantanamo Bay detainees pose an imminent danger if brought to American soil,” the Boston Globe writes.

Video: President Obama delivers his address on national security, terrorism and the closing of Guantanamo Bay prison.

The Wall Street Journal says, “Mr. Obama, speaking forcefully from the rotunda of the National Archives before the U.S. Constitution and Declaration of Independence, sought to regain the high ground in the debate, arguing that his changes were needed to restore ‘the power of our most fundamental values.’ He conceded that some key Bush-era policies would remain, from extralegal military commissions to indefinite detentions. But he said he had hoped that by banning interrogation techniques that others have called torture, and by vowing to close Guantanamo Bay in his first week as president, he would move beyond the divisive debates of the past few years, and pivot to his ambitious domestic agenda.”

Video: Former Vice President Dick Cheney delivers his speech on national security.

The Washington Post: “Presidential scholars could not recall another moment when consecutive administrations intersected so early and in such a public way.”

Politico adds, “The most popular politician in the country found himself pushed up against a wall by one of the least popular in Cheney – the leading voice in a budding Republican attack on Obama over national defense, one of the GOP’s oldest (and most successful) cudgels against Democrats.”

The New York Times’ analysis notes that Obama finds himself stuck in the middle. “Rather than an easily labeled program, Mr. Obama is picking seemingly disparate elements from across the policy continuum — banning torture and other harsh interrogation techniques but embracing the endless detention of certain terror suspects without trial, closing the prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, but retaining the military commissions held there. ‘A surgical approach,’ the president called it in his address on Thursday at the National Archives.”

“But surgical approaches are rarely satisfying to those on either end of the political spectrum who tend to dominate political dialogue in Washington, particularly when it comes to an issue as fraught with emotional resonance and moral implications as the struggle against terrorists.”

As for the reaction to the two speeches, Obama received mostly praise from the mainstream media’s editorial boards. The Washington Post’s: “Mr. Obama's wisdom lies in accepting the reality of war but insisting that it can be fought in fidelity to U.S. values. Yesterday, he spelled out the crucial difference. ‘I want to be very clear that our goal is to construct a legitimate legal framework for the remaining Guantanamo detainees that cannot be transferred,’ he said. ‘Our goal is not to avoid a legitimate legal framework.’”

The Washington Post’s Dana Milbank observes: “Dick Cheney came out swinging… Cheney used the word ‘attack’ 19 times, ‘danger’ and ‘threat’ six times apiece, and 9/11 an impressive 27 times. It was as if all the angry thoughts edited out of his speeches by Bush aides over eight years were finally free to tumble forth.”

More: “On paper, Obama should be an easy victor in his duel with Cheney; Obama is viewed favorably by about 60 percent of the public, Cheney by about 25 percent.” But: “For the moment, at least, Obama's intellectual arguments can't match Cheney's visceral rage. Even if Cheney can't reverse the new administration's policies, he's building a case for Obama to be blamed if there is a terrorist attack on his watch.”

The New York Times’ Alessandra Stanley: Obama vs. Cheney “should not have been a fair fight, but cable is the great equalizer. The proximity of the speeches — and the way that they were given equal time and weight on news shows — blurred the distinction between the president and the former vice president. And that was not helpful to Mr. Obama.” 

The Wall Street Journal’s editorial: “As rhetoric, [Obama’s] remarks were at pains to declare a bold new moral direction. On substance, however, the speech and other events this week look more like a vindication of the past seven years.”

The Times’ David Brooks has this take: “When Cheney lambastes the change in security policy, he’s not really attacking the Obama administration. He’s attacking the Bush administration. In his speech on Thursday, he repeated in public a lot of the same arguments he had been making within the Bush White House as the policy decisions went more and more the other way.”

Brooks concludes, “[T]he bottom line is that Obama has taken a series of moderate and time-tested policy compromises. He has preserved and reformed them intelligently. He has fit them into a persuasive framework. By doing that, he has not made us less safe. He has made us more secure.”

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What was truly sad about our leadership during 9/11 and recently afterwards is that the previous administration propagated fear instead of anger and resolve in the face of danger. I would of had much more respect for the previous administration had  they shown the class and courage to stand up to threats instead of cower to fear. The passangers of flight 93, after learning of the hijackers intentions, did not cower in the face of danger. Our soldiers daily are willing to put their lives on the line and are willing to die to protect this nation and it's values. To see how are leaders cower to fear by their actions when so many citizens and our military are willing to stand up and die for this country is truly disheartening. Our citizens and military deserve the same from our leaders as well, that they would be willing to put their life on the line and not cower in some bunker, stripping at the very fabric that makes this nation great. We all  have an inherit danger of losing our lives by just being Americans and I refuse to allow our nation to be shredded for fear I might lose mine. To have died an American so that my country could rise to any threat and defeat it with courage and resolve would have been a great honor. America, do not let our leadership rule out of frantic fear, but courageous resolve. Also, what has kept us safe is our citizenship rising to the challenge of monitoring with much more resolve from our airlines to our ports to our borders. Not by torture! The plot foiled in New York was done so,not by torture, but by vigilant resolve by citizens and our poolice/militery on a daily basis. This is what has kept us safe. Will someone be able to attack us anyway. Possibly, even if we tortured detainees, does not secure that we may not be hit again. It is an inherit risk we all face and I just hope we all, including our leadership will face it with courage, whether or not it means we may lose our life. To have died an American will still have been a great honor! Thank's to all the service men and women of our country and a big salute!
Cheney needs to STFU - nobody cares.  Isn't it Pete who always says "Send in the clowns"?  You got that right!
"The most popular politician in the country found himself pushed up against a wall by one of the least popular in Cheney"
so what does this mean for Obama?
http://www.governmentalityblog.com/my_weblog/2009/05/is-obama-weakening-at-the-hands-of-cheney.html
Cheney is a war criminal, admitted to complicity in torture and should be arrested and tried.
President Obama gave an excellent speech yesterday on Gitmo and clearly he was just rallying his Democratic base for future voting on funding his plan after he gets his plan in place.  Ofcourse the repugnant ones are whining about him not unveiling his plan yesterday but that was not the purpose of his speech.  Once he unveils his plan the evil elephants will whine again.

Marquis de Sade Cheney gave yet another pack of lies yesterday as he kept invoking 9/11 every minute of his screech.  We now learn that the tough talking Coward crapped his panties on 9/11 and overreacted to the threat.  He did offer up one inconvenient truth in that he wasn't concerned about terrorists until after 9/11 because he was too caught up in Raygunz's star wars missile defense nonsense instead of paying attention to the Clinton administration's warnings about bin Laden.  He finally fessed up that 9/11 was the fault of the crooked inept bushwhacker administration due to their inattention.

Prosecute War Criminals Bush and Cheney!
War Criminal Cheney Confessed he didn't Protect Us pre 9/11!
Giving Cheney and his daughter (envoy) airtime to make his point really helps Cheney 's numbers escalate about what did or not happen in his delusional, paranoid evil heart.. Why? FR: is Cheney's daughter's now going to be a political analyst for Morning Joke?

We have have been tortured enough with that  Buchanan guy, and now the daughter. That's too much.
Anytime "Obama v Cheney" is part of the headline, the Republicans lose.
I wonder what Dick Cheney would think about waterboarding if he had to undergo it himself.
It was interesting that Obama never mentioned the threat of home grown Islamic terrorism that was evident with the capture and arrest of three people in NY. If those three converted to Islam and plotted to  blow up synagogues while in jail, imagine the possibilities of releasing the gitmo crowd into the general prison population. Unless they are confined to solitary indefinetly they will be free to recruit and inspire many more terrorists like the three in NY.  
So has the white house fired the idiot who thought it would be a good idea for Obama to give a speech on the same day as Cheney on national security? Denying they knew about it and never check AEI's calendar was lame. Obama showing up 25 minutes late trying even harder to step on Cheney's speech even weaker.
Speech Summation:
Obama = the reality of policy and politics.
Cheney = the same broken record we've been hearing for the past 7 years. Nothing new and no solutions that help anything or anyone. 9/11 9/11 9/11.
Repub. talking points and rhetoric in 3..2..1..
Will any of you have anything constructive or compelling to say today?
Eric, Salinas, CA (Sent Friday, May 22, 2009 9:47 AM)

California another shinning example of corrupt greedy unions trying to drag the whole country down.
Investigative journalism is dead.  Instead, we get forcefed fake drama like this.  Cheney is out of power and appears to not even work for a living anymore.  He is an ex-failed vice president, with no access to national security information or any important information, for that matter.  

Yet, the American media just can't stop giving him a pulpet, pretending that he matters, merely to create a fake contrived drama and attempt to raise their add revenue.  Investigative journalism is dead.  We get to eat shet instead.
Eric in Salinas, you did get one thing right, President Obama gave a rallying speech - but did he really say anything?  As usual, no. Always campaigning and pointing fingers at someone else.

All of you Cheney haters sound like a bunch of angry teenagers who are railing against your parents for making the hard choices.

The fact is, we're safer because of Bush and Cheney, I'd rather have a terrorist partially drowned than have everyone at risk of being beheaded on a whim or fed to dogs or fed through a wood chipper.  How about the planes that brought down the trade towers?  How about the brave people who died to keep the White House from being another of the casualties of 9/11?  Is that what you all want to see on a regular basis in our country?

Grow up, war is hell.  Yes, I'd rather see a diplomatic solution, everyone would but sometimes a good talking to and a time out are just not enough.  

Our national security is the responsibility of the President, I hope ours is one that will make some hard choices and put that responsibility ahead of campaigning for the next election.
Somehow a rouge click got me to this page but one thing is for sure; all of you people need to get a life. That's both sides, dig? The top clowns are not the real joke; ya'll are. Now, how do I get out of here???
David Brooks, who once claimed to be a conservative, is thoroughly in the tank for The New York Times,in order to keep those checks coming. How odd that he didn;t mention that Vice President Cheney reminded us of the blatant treason in which the NY Times engaged by disclosing full information on top secret surveillance programs. But when you're biased and in the tank, yoo overlook little things like that. Vice President Cheney was highly effective in a fact-based serious adult way.The Celebrity-in-Chief was not.
Somehow a rouge click got me to this page but one thing is for sure; all of you people need to get a life. That's both sides, dig? The top clowns are not the real joke; ya'll are. Now, how do I get out of here???
Right on America Joe I could not have said it more succintly and compassionatly.
I listened to "The Dick " yesterday and I felt sad that this man can justify killing and torture wrapped in a flag.

I thought about desecration and serial killers and I could see both in the speech by Richard Cheney and felt the complete absence of American values.

Please put this man behind bars as an example of hope to do make amendments in our believes...especially for the youth...
Funny thing is President George Bush doesn't seem nervous shuck's he said he happy to be a civilian and has not made any negative attacks on President Obama's agendas for America so please tell me why Dick cheney is so nervous/scared the truth will come out or just looking for another fight for he sound slike he's suceeded from America'

Obama is a hypocrit. All liberals are. Liberals always say they are for national defense and the war on terror. Yet they are against the CIA, Guantanamo, Military commissions, the war in Iraq, etc etc etc etc.

Never trust a liberal. As Pelosi has shown so well. Obama is from the same mold.
That whole "thing" yesterday was STUPID.
Obama acted foolishly.
By engaging Cheney in a default-ex-facto, debate on national security.....all he did was validate the Bush doctrine, and give the appearance that they ever had any kind of a handle on the situation to begin with.
Cheney isn't in power and he can't/won't run again.
Obama may be a great talker....but he has to pick his fights "smarter" than this.
Cheney is spinning that handle of that fear monger machine as hard as he can.  I'll never forget when approaching re-election, Bush had those terrorist alert colors flashing like a f'n christmas tree.  

"Keep the cattle scared!  Keep 'em runnin' and we'll win another election and get a bunch of passes on unconstitutional actions to boot!"

the moving of Haliburton Corp. to Dubai ( to avoid U.S.taxes and any form of oversight ) says it all concerning EX-VP Cheney. Any (small) credibility he may have had went with it. Now he should complete the cycle
and transfer himself there also. I'm sure the new condo is ready for occupancy. Why, one might ask, is he being given SO much attention by the so-called media ?
Cheney needs to keep his mouth shut. Whether he likes it or not he isn't in charge any more. The American public isn't stupid. We can see what is happening and if we don't like it we will take action like we did in the past.

Apparently Cheney and his buddy Bush were so scared they nearly peed their pants on 9/11 but, being reactionaries and having a bone to pick with Saddam Hussein, decided on a course of action. Had Al Gore been President things might well have been different.

Each Administration has its own style and method of doing things. One may not agree with another but that is too bad.

Once out of office and once again a private citizen Presidents and Vice Presidents in the past have allowed the Current Administration to govern as they see fit. Sometimes they did well sometimes they didn't but if it happens on their watch they own it. Cheney needs to dry up and blow away like one of those Wyoming tumbleweeds.

While it would be nice for Dick dasterdly to shut his pie hole it does seem that the more he does the worse his Administration and the Republican party look. Steele really should tell him to cool it but doesn't have the guts to stand up to either Cheney or Limbaugh. Until he does he is merely a figure head and not a leader.

Why the media even pays Cheney any mind is beyond me. So he was VP, he isn't now and he has zero power to get anything done. With heart problems one would think Cheney would cool it. He could go play with Georgie or golf across the Wyoming prairie or something. Maybe he could go "hunting" or relax and read a book. Maybe he'll have a heart attack. That certainly would shut his pie hole wouldn't it?
I understand the issues of liberty.

Yet what the left fails to recognize is that we are not just at war with Al-Queda, yet with Islamic fundamentalism. 99% of Muslims are peaceful. It's this 1% that ruin it for the rest of them. Only until we get rid of this hatred will there be victory. Ignorance and insecurity breeds hatred.
What good does it do us to post a comment, MSNBC??
You cut off the posting way too soon and many, many of our thoughts never make it.
What has happened to you???
Cheney is really a short measure of a man let alone a leader of the country. He openly admits breaking our American Law and still expects to get congratulated for it. Have we sunk that low? Yusing his logic, sacraficing chickens would have produced the very same results he did.
Brooks concludes, “[T]he bottom line is that Obama has taken a series of moderate and time-tested policy compromises. He has preserved and reformed them intelligently. He has fit them into a persuasive framework. By doing that, he has not made us less safe. He has made us more secure.” (FR)

=============================

I couldn't agree more. Obama is making changes--gradually, carefully.  He has our best interests at heart, unlike the previous administration. Cheney may be enraged...I guess the truth hurts.
The fact that a president must contend with a member of the recent past administration is horrific. Cheney is not president, yet the press treats him as if he were.

If Barack Obama cannot change this country even a tiny bit it will be because the press and the right wing wouldn't let him. And if Obama can't do it, no one will.

If the press doesn't start acting like journalists with a conscience, and Obama fails, then we're back to the Republican status quo.

And America becomes a third world country.

Why doesn't any of my posts actually get posted? Yet some garbage makes it way here incessantly.
Cheney the "Dick" is revered by the MSM and the "Beltway", but America rejected Bush and Cheney on Nov 2008. So if this rejected disgraced loser is the face of the Republican party, so be it, and good luck with that.
Cheney is publicy admitting that he directed the commision of war crimes, and then has the shamelessness and audacity to attack the president based on 25 recitations of "9/11" and a pack of outright lies.

He is nothing less than the McCarthy of this generation.  And he is more - he had much more power and authority than McCarthy did, and he used that power to undermine three generations of careful boundaries that our country had created to avoid the temptations to torture, to secretly spy on Americans, and to undermine democracy via fearmongering by day and clandestine and illegal activities by night.  Under Cheney the illegal undermining of democracy was government policy.

Put him in jail, awaiting a fair trial, now.
If Cheney is building a case to blame Obama for any future attacks, so be it.  I, for one, will not fall for such ignorance and faulty logic.  It was the Bush/Cheney administration that kept us unsafe.  And when I say unsafe, I include keeping us safe after a natural disaster such as Katrina.  I want to hear no more from that torturing coward, Cheney!!
Barack Obama's message was viewed and will be reviewed often all over the world. Whatever the disagreements are at home on the details of Guantanamo, the world effect will be positive, and that can only improve security through the building of confidence and trust, and the willingness to work with and not against the USA. The Cheney speech seen by the rest of the world will clearly demonstrate  what they already knew; that the previous administration was off course, that the "attack" mentality (Cheney's favorite fear word)along with the administration's pre-disposition to grabbing power, and clear contempt for any position other than their own - home and abroad, made the Bush-Cheney administration not trustable. And, it was not trusted at home or abroad. Cheney's speech viewed beyond the USA clearly lays out more and more clearly why the USA lost the confidence of the world, why the USA became more and more isolated, and much more. Dick Cheney did a great summary of the world view of the past administration. It created a bunker mentality that was paranoid. Cheney and Bush together ridiculed old allies when they disagreed, threatened more and more countries. Were we threatened and attacked? Yes! Did we have leaders who came anywhere near the level of leadership of a Churchill who had his country bombed every night? No answer needed. We had leaders who scrapped their morals and their friends in their time of fear. And Cheney's speech did nothing but remind us all that he and George Bush were not up to the task of true leadership.
The entire former administration is obligated to kneel before the Creator and confess their sins against humanity. The damage that they have done will become more and more apparent while the present administration works eighteen hour days to do repair.


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