ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: Bon voyage

Posted: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:21 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, and Domenico Montanaro
*** Bon voyage: This evening, President Obama embarks on a trip to Europe and the Middle East, which will take him to Egypt (where he will give his big speech on the U.S. relations with the Muslim world), Germany, and France. But his first stop will be in Saudi Arabia, the religious capital of Islam. In fact, this stop was hastily put together. While the White House denies that the Saudis exerted any pressure on the administration after it announced Cairo as the spot for the big speech, other sources tell NBC News that the White House was reminded about Saudi Arabia's importance in the Muslim world, and that keeping a positive diplomatic relationship with the Saudis was important -- whether dealing with Iran, Israeli-Palestinian issues, or oil independence. Still, to pull this off, it's a reminder that it's proof once again that the U.S.-Saudi relationship has to trump just about every other relationship in the region.

Video: President Obama heads to the Mideast today, where he hopes to reach out to the Muslim community. TODAY’s Ann Curry talks to NBC’s Savannah Guthrie about the trip.

*** Focusing on health care first: Before he departs for Saudi Arabia, however, Obama will meet at the White House at 2:30 pm with Democrats who sit on the two Senate committees that are drafting health-care legislation: the Finance Committee and the Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee. At today’s briefing, the AP says, attendees will discuss a new report by the White House Council of Economic Advisers, which finds that health-care costs -- now at 18% of the nation’s GDP -- will rise to 34% in 30 years, if left unchecked. Translation: Fixing the health-care system will help fix the economy.

*** Sotomayor’s day on the Hill: Also today, Supreme Court nominee Sonia Sotomayor will be on Capitol Hill, where she will meet with top Democratic and GOP senators. Per NBC’s Ken Strickland, she visits first with Majority Leader Harry Reid (at 10:15 am ET), then with Judiciary Chairman Pat Leahy (11:30 am), then Judiciary Ranking Member Jeff Sessions (12:15 pm), Sens. Chuck Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand (1:30 pm), Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (2:45 pm), Majority Whip Dick Durbin (3:30 pm), Sen. Orrin Hatch (5:00 pm), and Minority Whip Jon Kyl (sometime this afternoon). As Roll Call reminds us, these meetings are much more than courtesy calls; they will play a role in Sotomayor's nomination battle -- if history is any guide. “Take the case of Harriet Miers, the much-maligned friend of President George W. Bush who saw her nomination to the Supreme Court yanked before her hearings could even get started in 2005. Republicans and Democrats alike credited her collapse to a poor performance in her meetings with Senators -- the lawmakers didn’t feel she had the intellectual weight or experience to merit a lifetime appointment to the high court.”

*** Score one for Mitch McConnell and Dick Cheney? On the issue of closing Gitmo, have congressional Republicans and Dick Cheney come out ahead of Obama? For now, it appears that way, according to a new USA Today/Gallup poll. “By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed there to prisons in their own states… It is one of the few subjects on which most Americans side with the views of the Bush administration over its successor. ‘Coming up on eight years after Sept. 11, fear remains, and fear is politically potent,’ says political scientist Paul Freedman of the University of Virginia, who studies public opinion. ‘When it comes to the issue of terrorism … people are inclined to err on the side of that fear.’”

*** America’s GM exit plan: In a briefing with a few reporters yesterday, leaders of the White House’s auto task force attempted to clarify exactly how and when the U.S. could sell its shares of the new General Motors. In short, if everything goes swimmingly with the government's taxpayer investment, the government could be out of the auto business for good within five years, but that's probably an optimistic timeline. Let's explain further: The new GM will buy the necessary assets of the old GM sometime in the next 60-90 days, when a bankruptcy judge allows the sale to take place. After that, the actual sale of old assets to the new GM could take several more weeks. So at this point on the calendar, we're looking at October or November before this new private company, once again called General Motors, will come into existence. So at this point, New GM will be a privately-held company, not traded publicly on the New York Stock Exchange (or any stock exchange for that matter). However, it is the intention of the Obama administration to get New GM to become a publicly traded company as soon as reasonably possible.

Video: Ray Young, CFO of GM, joins Morning Joe to talk about his company's future now with the federal government's involvement.

*** Christie vs. Lonegan: In New Jersey today, Republican voters head to the polls to choose the person they want to challenge vulnerable Democratic Gov. Jon Corzine in the fall. As we’ve written before, this GOP primary contest -- between the more moderate Chris Christie and the more conservative Steve Lonegan -- is yet another chapter in the ongoing debate over the Republican Party’s future. Does it aim for the political middle, or does it remain planted firmly on the right? Is being a moderate a virtue, or a curse? And what is more desirable, winning races or ideological purity? Polls show Christie, who’s viewed as the bigger general-election threat to Corzine, with a comfortable lead. But it’s a closed primary, and a low turnout could end up benefiting Lonegan, who advocates a flat tax. In the Democratic primary, Corzine faces only token opposition, and he will appear at a rally with Vice President Biden after the returns come in. Polling places open at 6:00 am ET and close at 8:00 pm.

*** Elsewhere today: Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the man tasked with taking up the command in Afghanistan, testifies before Senate Armed Services at 9:30 am ET; Tom Daschle -- the man who almost became HHS secretary -- speaks at the National Press Club on the politics of health care reform at 2:00 pm ET; and the liberal “America's Future Now!” conference in DC continues for a second day, with Sen. Jeff Merkley on jobs and energy, the Rev. Jesse Jackson on making college affordable, Rep. Barney Frank on military spending, and Sens. Dick Durbin and Bernie Sanders, who host an awards gala honoring AFL-CIO President John Sweeney.

Video: Speaking at his Senate confirmation hearing, Lt. Gen. Stanley McChrystal says the challenge in Afghanistan is considerable, a military-centric strategy won't succeed, and he expects casualties will likely increase.

Countdown to VA Dem primary: 7 days
Countdown to Election Day 2009: 154 days
Countdown to Election Day 2010: 518 days

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Comments

And that’s a good thing, right?

I suspect we will always have rigorous debate on money matters.  Do we spend too much, and is the budget too big?  Are taxes too high or fair?  And so on, and so on.  Are the Democrats right?  Are the Republicans right?

I suspect social issues will always be complex and full of passion too.  Every now and then issues of significance come along that challenge the whole country.  Are the liberals right?  Are the conservatives right?

Defense, foreign policy and national security issues are important matters of discussion as well.  Are we tough or strong enough?  Did we do enough?  Did we make mistakes?  Did we cause irreparable harm?

With all of these topics, you can make a living or career administering to them.  Be you pundit, practitioner or policy maker, these are all important and deserve your best effort.  Indeed, we see all types of comments here in FR explaining how people feel.  We often do not agree, and some relish the constant fight.

Later today President Obama is heading off to fight for our good name and get us in better graces with the Muslim world.  Any positive new direction he can affect is good for us all, right?  And that’s a good thing, right?


Odds and Ends

Sotomayor will visit the Senate today.  She is a quick study and her handlers have done their job, so I don’t expect any earth shaking news from coming from her meet and greet sessions.  

It’s going to take some time for GM to get on their feet.  My guess is several years. You don’t just go out and put into production a brand new car without considerable planning and implementing quality control measures.  It took Toyota, Honda, and Nissan approximately 60 years of constant quality improvement to build today’s autos.  In 1950 an American named W. Edwards Deming went to Japan and taught them how to build a quality car.  Ford hired Deming when they built the Taurus. GM used Deming’s principles when building the Saturn.  Deming died in 1999.  

As a Hoosier, it is very presumptive of me to suggest how people in Pennsylvania should vote. However, each time I watch Joe Sustak I become more certain that he can beat Specter in the Primary and Tomey in the General.  It is clear to me that the voters of Pennsylvania are independent enough to select their own Senator and put endorsements aside. Today Sustak is 30 points behind in the polls, and Obama was 30 points behind Clinton when he began his journey.  I’ll keep my nickel bet on  Sustak.  

BTW, have a safe trip Mr. President.

Wasn't Obama done with his apology tour?
No news on John Kasich's announcement to run for Ohio Govenor in 2010. Strickland has not announced if he will run for re-election.
Kasich (R) is well liked but so is Strickland (D). Should be a great fight!
Please---whatever you do--don't compare Harriet Miers with Judge Sotomayor. These two women are about as different as Cheney and Pres. Obama. Harriet Miers is just another link in the long chain of catastrophies that GWB & Cheney left in their wake. Judge Sotomayor has actual experience and a track record that indicates she will be a great member of the SCOTUS.
North Korea must be beside itself with frustration.

"Pay attention to us!!! Or... or... we'll test another missile!!!"
Yes We Can.

So, another anti-choice lunatic will go out and kill another doctor I assume. And perhaps another and another, until these murderers/psychopaths conclude that all the doctors are dead.

This is what the Nazis tried to do with the Jews - they were going to just keep killing them until they were all gone. Because something inside of their souls told them that Jews were bad. But in reality, it wasn’t that the Jews were bad. It's simpler than that. The Nazi's were just plain anti-Semitic. Haters. And murderers. And these anti-choice murderers aren’t just against abortion. It's simpler than that. Some are self-righteous. And some are mentally ill. What they all have in common is the belief that only they can decide who is fit to live on earth according to their own personal misguided beliefs. What we are hearing again is what we heard in Nazi Germany - "they deserved it".

Religion really is a horrible thing when it is taken literally. And it's happening all over the world. These people really believe that they are doing God’s work. But you can't succeed as Hitler proved, unless you have a propaganda machine.

So yes, Fox and the right wing hate machine is just as much to blame. Gay marriage – who are we judge who can marry whom? As well, who are we to judge what a woman decides with her own body? Abortions are not something anyone celebrates. These are borne out of very sad circumstances.

Rupert Murdoch evidently doesn't care. Neither he nor Bill O’Reilly nor anyone else know a thing about these women. But then, empathy has never been the right wing’s strong point. They are more into judgment and hating. Turn them off. For good. Writing to them and asking them to tone it down does no good.

If 2008 taught us anything, it’s that we can do this.

Score one for Mitch McConnell and Dick Cheney? On the issue of closing Gitmo, have congressional Republicans and Dick Cheney come out ahead of Obama? For now, it appears that way, according to a new USA Today/Gallup poll. “By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed there to prisons in their own states.
- First Read

=================================================

Why is it that everytime Dick Cheney "wins", America loses?

Also, why is it that the results of one poll is being trumpeted as the definitive answer from the American people to the Gitmo question?

Sometimes what is easiest is not always what is best . . . witness the financial debacle that was allowed to fester until the WORLD's economy imploded, and the perennial denial of the political class of the need for healtchare reform.

A man who knows a little something about terrorism, Gen. Petraeus, agrees with President Obama about Guantanamo Bay. And of course international law and the Constitution agree with President Obama.

But hey, who's counting, right?



I’m not one to normally criticize or complain about our ‘Board of Directors’ here at FR, (and yes I’m l@@king at you three!)

However after a dismal Monday yesterday there are some items I would like to address.

I’m aware that you all have other responsibilities besides FR – but things were running with about as much rhythm as a Terry McAuliffe after polishing off his bottle of Puerto Rican Rum!

Threads were going up at a snails pace and then you were allowing 10-20 comments??

Not to mention the GM story was beat into the ground.  Approximately 50% of the threads yesterday were devoted to it! Yes it’s important & newsy but so is Cheenee saying he supports gay marriage or the MN Supreme Court grilling Normie’s lawyers like a bunch of cheese sandwich’s regarding lack of evidence.  Sorry to say the world didn’t stop spinning (and neither did the GEENOPEE for that matter) because GM went belly up!  

All the regulars here bring their own ‘quirky sense of style’ to this forum – that’s what makes it so great!

Variety is the ‘spice of life’ guys and we who visit here savor it!

So thanks for letting me vent!  It’s a new day and a great day to be on here at FR! Let’s get to work!
First Read: "Score one for Mitch McConnell and Dick Cheney? On the issue of closing Gitmo, have congressional Republicans and Dick Cheney come out ahead of Obama?"
------------------------------

But they wouldn't have been able to do it without the complicity of the corporate media. So give yourselves a pat on the back for a job well done at keeping the public misinformed.

It's been several days since Gen. Petreus came out and said that Guantanomo should be closed, but except for the actual "liberal media" like the Huffington Post, this story seems to have been censored because it doesn't fit in with the Republican proganda that you help to spread.
Chuck WA - And that’s a good thing, right?

I suspect we will always have rigorous debate on money matters.

===================

Where was the rigorous debate on the federal government taking over GM and Chrysler? I don't recall one hearing taking place in Congress to discusss those takeovers.

Where was the rigorous debate on the $800 billion dollar stimulus bill earlier this year? No one even had time to read what was in that bill, let alone debate it.

Where was the rigorous debate on setting the gas milage standards for cars? Obama one day came down from his mountain and dictated that a certain milage be met by the automakers, and it was made so.

Where was the rigorous debate on monetary policy by the Obama administration? When was the discussion of printing more money to buy our own debt publically discussed?

With the steady rise of oil and gas prices over the past several months, i hope people can now see that the rise during the Bush era was not due to some nefarious plan hathed by Cheney and Big Oil. The speculators are the ones screwing us! Oil should not be a commodity traded on the open market! And don't buy in to the supply and demand BS that they try to feed the public either.

On Gitmo, i've said it before and i will say it again. Gitmo is to good for these terrorists. i'm sure you've seen the shots of it on the news with these people kicking around a soccorball and praying all the time. I want them in a supermax prison where they will likely be on lockdown 23 hours a day and have to constantly live in fear of being killed or assulted by other inmates. This is the exsistence that terrorists in captivity deserve IMHO!
President Obama is a hugh plus in representing America. His diplomacy, ability to listen and HEAR,
sincerity is a welcome change.
I do worry even more about his safety, but guess with
latest happenings in our own country, we are also as plauged with radicals and domestic terrorists as
other countries. The difference is most countries are upfront while here they hide behind misguided, evil beliefs.
How were the questions worded? I find it very difficult to think that Gitmo should remain open even if it puts our troops in harms way.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
By Jon Soltz
Co-Founder of VoteVets.org, served as a Captain in Operation Iraqi Freedom

A couple of days ago, I chronicled the quickening departure of some big military names from the Republican party, those concerned about the party moving even farther to the right a number of issues, including torture. What struck me at the time is that General David Petraeus came out against torture and for closing Guantanamo.

I was stunned, however, when he admitted today that the United States has violated the Geneva Conventions. Without saying specifically how we did (though it doesn't take much imagination to figure it out), Petraeus said on FOX News:

Question: So is sending this signal that we're not going to use these kind of techniques anymore, what kind of impact does this have on people who do us harm in the field that you operate in?

Gen. Petraeus: Well, actually what I would ask is, "Does that not take away from our enemies a tool which again have beaten us around the head and shoulders in the court of public opinion?" When we have taken steps that have violated the Geneva Conventions we rightly have been criticized, so as we move forward I think it's important to again live our values, to live the agreements that we have made in the international justice arena and to practice those.
FR: “By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed there to prisons in their own states…

=============

It's amazing what a little push back from the Bush administration to the lies Obama is telling about them will do for the truth.

This is what happens when Obama doesn't have a plan or a clue. Wait until the polls come out about Obama taking over the automakers. You may see a 10-1 ratio of people that disagree with the federal government doing that takeover.
“By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed there to prisons in their own states…
******************************************

All of this fear talk by Cheney and repubs is what is scaring me more than anything else. They are the security threat.

They are scaring the American public so they can TRY to get back in office. Nut jobs. ALL OF THEM!!!
Now that Cheney has admitted that Saddam had no involvement with 911, what should the new administration do? Cheney should be jailed for his arrogance; however, I think he’s taunting the Obama administration to see how far he can go with his foolish gossip. Man, only if the MSM had done their job the correct way maybe this country wouldn’t be in the big mess it’s in now and not so hated by so many other countries. Bush/Cheney could have also been out before the disorder began.

Thanks to Keith O. for exposing the right wing crazies that will do anything (even kill) to get their point across and how the Fox hate network/channel is feeding the fire for those kinds of people. Keep up the great work Keith because no one else will stand up to these fools.
Luved the USA Today/Gallup poll that said by 2-1 Americans don’t want to close Gitmo.  For all of you leftist dimwits who have been raging that it is unseemly or inappropriate for Cheney to speak out and criticize the Obama administration, looks like the American people continue to be informed by his views.  Actually, not only is it appropriate for Cheney to be speaking out, but he has an obligation to do so.  Let me explain so even the morons on the blog will understand.

First, for as long as I can remember there has been a bit of an unspoken gentleman’s agreement that the outgoing administration usually waits a respectful period of time before taking any shots at the new administration.  Cheney hasn’t done this, so the liberal loonies are all over him like a cheap suit.  But, there are two partners to this unspoken agreement.  Once the election is over the time for criticizing the policies of the previous administration is also over and the new president generally gets down to the business of governing.  But Obama hasn’t lived up to his end of this bargain.  To the contrary, Obama continually whines about the ‘mess’ that he inherited and thereby repeatedly expresses thinly veiled criticism of the Bush administration.  In that regard, it is entirely appropriate for members of the Bush team to speak out and defend their record.

Second, there are stark and fundamental differences between the Obama worldview and the Bush/Cheney worldview, particularly on the issue of national security.  If Cheney believes strongly that the Obama view is utterly misguided, then he has a patriotic obligation to his country, an intellectual obligation to himself, and a political obligation to the Republican party to express his opposition to policies based on that worldview.

Those who suggest that as a former vice-president Cheney should just shut up and get off the stage just don’t get it. Obama is trying to take the country down a road that is full of potholes, from both an economic perspective as well as a national security perspective.  Cheney is an articulate spokesman who believes strongly that Obama is taking us down the wrong road.  Cheers to Cheney for speaking out.  And cheers to the American public for listening to him.
The little fear engine that could,the Dick,and Mitch fear and smear show still making the cable shows,and some are so scared that the government will move the prisoners will be moved to a prison near them.People the folks that are already housed in your hood are twice as bad as any of these prisoners.And with Cheney playing his role in the campaign as a way to deflect his torture lies,when will people wake up,there are no memos to defend Darth,he is a war criminal,he will go to prison,if not here then some other country will ,since our Government doesn't seem interested in shutting the old timers mouth.
Houston - But they wouldn't have been able to do it without the complicity of the corporate media.


The "corporate media" you talk about has been very critical of Cheney speaking out against Obama. It's only the fact that Cheney is speaking the truth and pointing out Obama's lies that he is telling about the Bush administration.

Cheney is laying out a case for the Bush administration policies, and the American people are agreeing with him.
Obie's never-ending Apology Tour:

Brussels - June 12
Barcelona - June 13
Monaco - June 15
Rio - June 18
Panama - June 20
Notre Dame (again) - June 28


Andrea - NYC: All of this fear talk by Cheney and repubs is what is scaring me more than anything else. They are the security threat.
====================

Sure. That long range missile on the launch pad in North Korea? No threat. That nuclear plan Iran is implementing? No threat. An unstoppable number of illegal immigrants coming into the country? No threat.

A couple of blood thirsty terrorists get water poured on their head down on some god forsaken rock in Cuba. Now that's a threat!
So yes, Fox and the right wing hate machine is just as much to blame.
------------------------------------------------------
Actually, the man who killed George Tiller is to blame.  Not a news station.

There was an Army recruiter killed yesterday in Arkansas at his recruiting station.  The suspect is an anti-war activist.  Is Code Pink to blame for this soldier's killing?   By your logic, I suppose so.
Well said Pat - I totally agree.  If anyone watched Rachel last night, Frank Schaffer was spot on.  His statements were exactly what we are watching happen today.  Kudos to him for taking responsibility for his actions.  Now if only the last idiot in charge & darth cheney could be so gracious!!  Cheney thinks it's funny to be called that.  What a complete moron.

Another thing, right on Feisty!  I tried, to no avail to get on and couldn't.  I do give you FR guys credit, and realize you get busy.      
Obie's never-ending Apology Tour:

Brussels - June 12
Barcelona - June 13
Monaco - June 15
Rio - June 18
Panama - June 20
Notre Dame (again) - June 28



Bad Chihuahua

Where do I get my t-shirt with these dates on the back?
I am completely blown away by the media's attempt to 'bury' the assasination of Dr. Tiller.  They want to act like the fomenting of hate has no consequences.  This happened in my backyard and I am seeing little to no coverage.

The issue that I am upset about is that Dr. Tiller's work, while grotesque to many was LEGAL.  If the Pro-Life movement of hate and radicalism wants a different outcome, then they need to work within the frame work of our legal system.

Every where we turn these days we find constant badgering from our "Leaders" (looking at you, Cheney -et al) that breaking the rules is okay for 'the greater good'.  This further empowers the radicals.

Bush & Co had SIX uninterrupted years with which to change the laws in this country regarding abortion.  Hell, they even had the Supreme Court.  So why don't all you defenders of life (as long as you deem the life worthy) question that?
^^^^^^^^^^
I agree with Feisty, as for yesterday - too many GM articles not enough substance on some of the other germane topics du jour.
^^^^^^^^^
from yesterday:
MSierra, SF (Sent Monday, June 01, 2009 9:56 AM)

Our remodeled local bank has screens at the drive up and all four are on FIXED Noise.  Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's on a lot of tv's in just a 'few' homes,...No way intelligent folk are watching it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Leftist wackos reborn (Sent Monday, June 01, 2009 11:07 AM)

I hate to let FACTS get in the way of your illogical rant; but please review the following:

http://minnesotaindependent.com/21646/anoka-county-asks-coleman-and-franken-to-re-try-ballot-review

http://www.minnpost.com/davidbrauer/2008/11/12/4565/minneapolis_election_director_speaks_ballots_in_my_car_story_false
The little fear engine that could,the Dick,and Mitch fear and smear show still making the cable shows,and some are so scared that the government will move the prisoners will be moved to a prison near them.

jesse, St. Paul MN

The Obama administration is giving the terrorists laptops. That's right, laptops. Many of the terrorists obviously post on this board by the looks of things. It's hard to tell them from mindless liberals that already post here.
Joe T. "Luved the USA Today/Gallup poll that said by 2-1 Americans don’t want to close Gitmo.  For all of you leftist dimwits who have been raging that it is unseemly or inappropriate for Cheney to speak out and criticize the Obama administration, looks like the American people continue to be informed by his views. "
-------------------------------------------------

Just curious. Do you consider General Petraeus to be a leftist dimwit? He's said that the Guantanamo should be cloase and that the Geneva Conventions had in fact violated by the US during the Bush administration. Just because these facts have gone largely unreported in the corporate media doesn't mean they're not facts.
>> I am completely blown away by the media's attempt to 'bury' the assasination of Dr. Tiller. <<

That 30 minute segment on the killing on CNN last night wasn't enough?  
Where was the rigorous debate on the federal government taking over GM and Chrysler? I don't recall one hearing taking place in Congress to discusss those takeovers.

Where was the rigorous debate on the $800 billion dollar stimulus bill earlier this year? No one even had time to read what was in that bill, let alone debate it.

Where was the rigorous debate on setting the gas milage standards for cars? Obama one day came down from his mountain and dictated that a certain milage be met by the automakers, and it was made so.

Where was the rigorous debate on monetary policy by the Obama administration? When was the discussion of printing more money to buy our own debt publically discussed?


Paul Westfield, NJ
====================================================
Dear Paul:

Thanks for your thoughtful post.  You are indeed correct, many of these matters were not handled in a thorough and judicious way - they were handled quickly - and in hindsight that created many problems.

That said, that is the way things usually go in an emergency, and there can be no doubt, that when the President of the United States, George W. Bush, and Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, go to the Congress of the United States, the head of every major bank, and ultimately the American people with their hats in their hands and declare "The U.S. economy is effectively bankrupt, and if it is not given an immediate infusion of cash, capitalism as we know it will cease to exist.", it kind of gets everyones attention.

And this from a Republican President, champion of the invisible hand and free markets.

So we acted.

And now we have the luxury of nitpicking, largely because the "fire" has at least been contained, although it is still raging.

So although much (not all) of your criticism is fair . . . as so often happens . . . it is incomplete if not considered in CONTEXT.


Paul Westfield, NJ (Sent Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:39 AM)

I'm just going to address the stimulus bill because you pitched so a low slow one!

The stimulus bill WAS vigorously debated. President Obama talked to republicans and clearly heard that they wanted to see more tax cuts and the elimination of certain programs that weren't stimulus. President Obama took that back to congress and the bill was revised, eliminating some of the ideas that weren't stimulus, and adding more tax cuts. That, my friend, is what is known as compromise.

In response, the republicans said they would not support the bill and most did not vote for it.

Here's what the republicans need to understand: President Obama listens and is willing to compromise some. President Obama and the Democrats also control the House and Senate and are the dominant party. Thus, a little compromise is actually all the republicans are going to get. The problem is that the republicans don't want compromise. They want President Obama to be a republican and push republican ideals. This isn't going to happen. The people spoke and they were tired of the republican ways.

Meanwhile, they like to sit back and complain about everything he does, say NO to everything, and expect him to do things their way, "or else."

Ironically, the republicans could probably bring themselves back into power (at least in the House and Senate) by showing some compromise themselves, and by telling people, this is a good thing and I support it, even though it isn't completely written the way I would do it myself. Instead, they continue to say no and take extreme positions, which have the effect of further marginalizing the GOP.
There was an Army recruiter killed yesterday in Arkansas at his recruiting station.  The suspect is an anti-war activist.  Is Code Pink to blame for this soldier's killing?   By your logic, I suppose so.
______________
I'm an anti-war activist. I don't shoot army recruiters. Anti-choice individuals should not shoot doctors. No one should be taking the law into their own hands, whether it be over abortion or war. No one on tv that I know of is calling army recruit officers "murderers" like Fox did with Dr. Tiller.
Joe T, Alexandria, VA (Sent Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:45 AM)

I tried to apologize to you last week for the personal attack; but screw you.  You are about as crazy as I've encountered on FR.  Cheney has been wrong and wrong headed on absolutely EVERY topic that has come up with regards to National Security.  You may appreciate the school yard bully tactics; but it has NOT made us safer.  You may not care about our image in the world; but it is completely tarnished.  You may not care about our Constitution or International Treaties that we have entered into; but we have violated them.  Many generals and other officials have acknowledged.  You may hate Obama; but in the words of our former vice president, "So!"

PS.  Joe, regarding the pothole scenario - your side has left us in the ditch - so a road with potholes is, quite frankly, a step up.  Further, there is NATIONAL consensus that the convergence of events left by Bush & Co is the WORST any incoming President has ever faced - I think it bears pointing out since your side is so impatient with the 'quick fix' and immediate gratification.  Get real,...you are living in a post 9/11 world where fear is your friend.  The majority of Americans chose hope.  Try not to choke on that.
Joe T: "First, for as long as I can remember there has been a bit of an unspoken gentleman’s agreement that the outgoing administration usually waits a respectful period of time before taking any shots at the new administration. "

The Obama administration has blamed Bush for every single problem under the sun. The Bush administration, after being elected in 2000, never once mentioned the problems they had to clean up from Clinton, even after 9/11, never once did Bush mention Clinton's short comings.

Obama thought he'd have free reign to blame everyone else for his failures, but that's turned out not to be true now hasn't it? Good for Cheney that he's defending the Bush administration. Good for Cheney that he's not apologizing for things that needed to get to done to protect the country. Academics like Obama think we live in a utopia where everything can be tied up into neat little packages. Cheney knows the reality of world doesn't let those kind of things happen.
Joe T, Alexandria, VA, what in the heck is there to cheer Cheney for, he and his chronie gw left us in one heck of a mess, Cheney is just bitter and angry that the repukes are not in charge anymore, so in turn Cheney wants to do nothing but cry about this and that and the other!!!!!!!  Cheney is old news not even worth turning on fox newtwork anymore!!!
What's wreaking havoc on the economy is how inefficent our corporations are at anything it trys to run. It (the corporations) running health care will just be another bloated and inefficent corporate bureaucracy.

Funny how the same statement can apply to our corporations as well. Especially since they have created the current mess we are in. Ins co's, Banks, car co's, etc., if they had been able to run their business's in a more effecient and ethical manner, Americans would not need to have this discussion.
Anti-choice,pro-birth,anti-life after birth radicals screeching bloody murder towards doctors and clinics trying to save lives of desperate young woman - but when bloody murder occurs - in a church, they claim innocence...

Republicans crying marxism for a president trying to rebuild a company critical to our economy, yet they propose no plan of their own and ridicule Obama for having no exit plan for this innovative approach. This follows a Republican administration which attempted to rebuild a nation that was only broken because we annihilated it by shock and awe and still is without an exit plan.

We have criticism by the right over the first couples day trip to Manhattan, but where were the complaints of the dozens of week-long trips to Crawford and the taxpayer money those cost.

Racism raised by Republicans over the most qualified, most inspiring Supreme Court nominee is decades who dared to say her Hispanic background could provide new perspectives to a room full of old white men. Then she is called dumb after graduating first in her high school class, second in her undergraduate class at Princeton and editor of the law review at Yale Law School.

What is the alternative proposed? Cut taxes for the wealthy, increase conventional military spending, NO on reforming healthcare, NO on green energy, NO on fixing secondary education, NO, NO, NO...

God Bless America, God Bless President Obama...
Almost every senior military leader (active & retired) has call for the closing of Gitmo for the safety of our troops. Even Cheney's beloved General David Petraeus has come out stating it needs to close.
 Too many of us are still allowing ourselves to be influenced by Cheney's FEAR promotion. I find it hard to believe that 2/3 of us don’t trust our generals and Admirals.
I don't see Eric from Salinas on the boards today. I wonder if today is when he has to do his in-patient treatment.
katiec: President Obama is a hugh plus in representing America. His diplomacy . . . .

What has Obama done for any diplomacy? At last look, he hasn't negotiated anything with anybody. He just shows up at these summits yucking it up with the dictators of the world. Obama's mid-east policy is unworkable, Iran continues to build a nuke, North Korea continues to set off nukes, and the price of oil continues to go up.

So, once again, what are Obama's diplomatic successes?
Another day, another Barrak Hussein Obama apology tour.  Meanwhile unemployment up, gas prices up, taxes up, trillions added to the national debt thanks to Obama up, GM down, housing down, 401K down, national security down,  How's that obamalama thing working out for ya?
Liberals foolishly believe that they are the only solution when in fact they are the major problem.
Actually, the man who killed George Tiller is to blame.  Not a news station.

There was an Army recruiter killed yesterday in Arkansas at his recruiting station.  The suspect is an anti-war activist.  Is Code Pink to blame for this soldier's killing?   By your logic, I suppose so.

Virginian (Sent Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:52 AM)

Alex:  May I have "CULPABILITY" for 2 thousand please?  Plant an ill gotten seed and you may just be held culpable of the ill gotten act in a court of law!
Virginian (Sent Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:52 AM)

It is the level of rhetoric that is the problem. By calling abortion doctors murderers, they are fanning the flames and trying to provoke this type of action. A murderer is someone that breaks the law. So the far right, when calling doctors that perform abortions murderers, is pretty much asking for vigilantism. The far right is saying these are murderers and they are getting away with it.

But they are not murderers. They are following the law and have done nothing illegal. The culture of the right is weapons (guns) and extreme religious beliefs. Historically, those have resulted in very bad things happening (the crusades, the IRA, Islamic terrorists, etc).

During the Vietnam war, soldiers were greated by left wing peace demonstrators with calls of baby killers, murderers, etc. That was also wrong you notice a very different tone from those against the Iraq war.

I have yet to hear Code Pink use the kind of extreme rhetoric that calls people murders and tries to fire up violent extremism. They are vocal, and sometimes even disrespectful, but they are completely against violence.

FREE-MARKET CAPITALISM IS THE ONLY ECONOMIC SYSTEM ‘NOT’ REQUIRING THE SUPRESSION OF OUR CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS.

INTERVENTIONISM … FASCISM … SOCIALISM --- ALL are dependent upon differing degrees of a dictatorial and anti-democratic government.

As an economic system ---- FASCISM is SOCIALISM with a CAPITALIST veneer.  Obama’s INTERVENTIONISM can lead to Fascism or Socialism.

HISTORY.

... Fascism seeks control through the domination of private owners.

... Fascism requires businesses to use their property in the “national interest”

... Fascism leaves the appearance of market relations while controlling all activities.

... Fascism controls the monetary system and sets all prices and wages.

---  Fascism:  excess income is surrendered as taxes; massive public works projects are undertaken to minimize unemployment and discontent.

--- Interventionism the government seeks to influence the free market system ---  by the use of its coercive powers ...

A country’s ‘ECONOMIC SYSTEM’ is not just  about how to divide up the spoils of its labor --- it is a determination what system of ‘SOCIAL ORGANIZATION’ best serves its citizens.

OBAMA’S EXCESSIVE "INTERVENTIONISM" ... COULD LEAD TO 'FASCISM' ... or TO FULL-BLOWN 'SOCIALISM'  … IF OBAMA’S PERVASIVE MEDDLING DOESN‘T STOP.

BAIL-OUTS MAY SEEM GOOD --- UNTIL THE GOVERNMENT RUNS OUT OF THE TAXPAYERS MONEY.   THEN WHAT?
Luved the USA Today/Gallup poll that said by 2-1 Americans don’t want to close Gitmo.  For all of you leftist dimwits who have been raging that it is unseemly or inappropriate for Cheney to speak out and criticize the Obama administration, looks like the American people continue to be informed by his views.  Actually, not only is it appropriate for Cheney to be speaking out, but he has an obligation to do so.  Let me explain so even the morons on the blog will understand.
---------------------------------
Question....Who do you think would know more about what is good or bad regarding GITMO, a man who has a distinguished military career or a draft dodger?

Personally I would go along with General Patreaus on this one.
I don't see Eric from Salinas on the boards today. I wonder if today is when he has to do his in-patient treatment.
concerned citizen

That's going to be a problem. I believe California has cut that particular social program.
BT - Boston (Sent Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:57 AM)

I am talking about the internet.  Not on MSNBC's page, Not on CNN's page.  Nothing like say, Reverend Wright where it was looped on constant rotation on the front page of every news site, news station, etc.

I'm sure Fox News gave it the proper coverage.  They ARE fair and balanced.  whatever,...
Let me explain so even the morons on the blog
Joe T, Alexandria, VA (Sent Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:45 AM)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
And yet I see you're here…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ps: I can’t wait to see the Brian Williams special tonight and tomorrow with President Obama!  Even better will be the GEENOPEE’s rhetoric is the days ahead!  Mr. President taking his wife on a date sure sent them into a tizzy!  Brought to you by the party of ‘family values’ Yeah… riiiiiiight!
>>>*** Score one for Mitch McConnell and Dick Cheney? On the issue of closing Gitmo, have congressional Republicans and Dick Cheney come out ahead of Obama? For now, it appears that way, according to a new USA Today/Gallup poll. “By more than 2-1, those surveyed say Guantanamo shouldn't be closed. By more than 3-1, they oppose moving some of the accused terrorists housed there to prisons in their own states… It is one of the few subjects on which most Americans side with the views of the Bush administration over its successor. ‘Coming up on eight years after Sept. 11, fear remains, and fear is politically potent,’ says political scientist Paul Freedman of the University of Virginia, who studies public opinion. ‘When it comes to the issue of terrorism … people are inclined to err on the side of that fear.’”
==========
This is why the GOP uses fear, because it's EFFECTIVE.  They've been able to use it effectively in every campaign, and they show no sign of stopping now.  However, the part that Cheney and his apologists leave out of the conversation is the 500+ detainees who THEY released onto American soil over the course of their administration (half of them over the past two years).  How many of them went back to terrorism (assuming they were terrorist in the first place) no one knows because they can't come up with any real numbers.  I say try them all in American courts, and let the chips fall where they may.  If some have to be released, then we can blame Cheney/Bush for not following proper evidence gathering procedures.

Oh, BTW.  All of you who were b!+ching about the DHS report regarding Right (and Left) Wing extremist, particularly anti-abortion extremist, it seems that the report may have been proven right if the murder of Dr. Tiller is any indication.  Any thoughts, righties.

Also, BTW.  Thanks to all who sent me birthday wishes over the weekend.  I've been on vaca all last week and my entries here have been sporatic at best, but your wishes were appreciated.

NEW BLOG ENTRIES TODAY!
http://jawillie.blog.com
Almost every senior military leader (active & retired) has call for the closing of Gitmo for the safety of our troops. Even Cheney's beloved General David Petraeus has come out stating it needs to close.
Too many of us are still allowing ourselves to be influenced by Cheney's FEAR promotion. I find it hard to believe that 2/3 of us don’t trust our generals and Admirals.
----------------------------------------------------
About 500 retired admirals and generals have circulated a petition saying 'do not overturn DADT' as well.  So do you consider their counsel wise on that as well?  Or do you cite their opinion only when it suits your argument?

Most people do want Gitmo closed.  I want Gitmo closed.  But until there's a viable plan for the detainees, it needs to stay open.


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