Now Baucus is firing on Obama. The way the Health Care Destuction bill is going, it will only get 10 votes in the Senate, and maybe a few more in the House.

I guess it's time for Obama and Soros to unleash their liberal groups into looking into Baucus's background. Got to find something on the guy to change his tune.

What a bunch of whinners. You know what you need to do. Does he need to spoon feed you people everything? You people can trick for all I care just get the friggin money and get it done.

Do liberals even know what a 'cost curve' is? That means if it keeps going up, you can't have your free stuff.

Tax on the middle class? Sure, why not? How can they expect to keep voting themselves a raise without any consequences? They want free health care, let the middle class bear some of the burden. And that's part of the 'Shared Responsibility' BHO talked about.

Lets see someone take a poll on HC reform with that in mind.

Apparently there are just not enough rich people to tax for this failure of a bill.

The problem with the logic of those who think employer provided benefits should be taxed as income, is that if we opted out of the employer provided benefit, that doesn't mean our salaries would increase by the value of the benefit!  Thus, taxing my benefits is tantamount to a full tax increase on non-existent income!  I say, if you can't do health care reform so that we get the uninsured covered without taxing employer benefits, then we can't do it!

Taxing employer paid health care benefits is a bad idea. If they do this it would be better for the employer to stop providing the benefits, pay the employees the difference and offer a group policy where the employee paid the full cost of the coverage. For many people this new expense would actually be taxed deductible if it exceeded a percentage of the total employee income and actually may lead to an increase in the cost of health care.

This means nothing in the big picture.

http://www.political-buzz.com

Of course Obama isn't helping to "negotiate" a bill that has wide support. That's not Chicago-Style, and it's certainly not the style of Soros and MoveOn.org who Obama sold his soul to get elected.

People need to wake up and understand that they answers aren't on the extreme left, or extreme right. They're in the middle which is where most Americans are.

Awwwww, poor baby.

Having to go to work everyday like the rest of us is tough, huh?

So sorry that President Obama isn't making it easy for you like President Bush did.

But look on the bright side, YOU have government run health insurance for life, so "what's the rush", right?

Why waste time - We know where BoBo is heading.

Just raise the tax paid to 100%

Socialism is the Obama agenda!!!

Cars, Healthcare, Insurance, Electric ...

1/3 of the cars on the road today dont have auto insurance (according to AAA)

3/4 of the people dont have life insurance
(according to AmMedTracking)

1/6 of homes dont have homeowners insurance
(according to FEMA)

7/8 of people dont have long term disability insurance

2/3 of people dont have dental insurance
(according to the ADA)


So, We can drive without insurance
We can die without insurance
We can get disabled without insurance
We can loose our house without insurance
We can loose our teeth without insurance

But democrats only care about health insurance!!!

Obama's plan makes it illegal to not accept health insurance thru your employer - aren't the jails full enough?

Just more freedoms being lost under BoBo Obama!!!!

Let me keep it simple for those of you for the status quo in hralthcare. If you currently receive your insurance through your employer and think that is your plan until medicare, think again.

In five years most employers will offer no insurance because no one, not dems or reps, are coming up with suggestions that will make insurance more cost effective and attractive to buinsess in the future. I could pay any scheme the congress comes up with to tax employers and be waaaaaaaay ahead in my business compared to today.

Im more interested im Michael Jackson's hair catching on fire.

The Obama story is used up. He's our irrational prez.
Big deal.

President Obama is having trouble living up to his capaign promise not to raise taxes on people but he's wrong that the medical benefit employees get from their employers aren't taxable income.  The employer paid medical benefit is taxable income and should never have been treated as exempt.  If waitresses have to pay income tax on their tips then employees should pay income tax on employer provided medical benefits.

Still the Democrats have to get tougher on the super rich and greedy and make those making tens of millions and hundreds of millions per year pay higher percentages.  Time for us to stop giving them so much tax cut welfare they never deserved.

Pass Health Care Reform with the Public Option Now!

can't blame Repubs for the dem infighting as much as the following posts will try. Glad to see someone in the dem party has a brain and dismisses BoBo lies about America being broke and we are now a pay as you go nation only to turn around 4 weeks later and applaud a bill that will cost 1 trillion with borrowed money.

New Item NYTs: BOSTON — A hospital that serves thousands of indigent Massachusetts residents sued the state on Wednesday, charging that its costly universal health care law is forcing the hospital to cover too much of the expense of caring for the poor.

The hospital, Boston Medical Center, faces a $38 million deficit for the fiscal year ending in September, its first loss in five years. The suit says the hospital will lose more than $100 million next year because the state has lowered Medicaid reimbursement rates and stopped paying Boston Medical “reasonable costs” for treating other poor patients.


===================

Massachusetts government run health care is a model being used by Obama, Pelosi, and Baucus for the federal health care system. Now, about that rationed care and cost overruns the Republicans keep talking about . . .

.....but he (Mr. Kennedy), like other wealthy individuals will be able to afford care while the rest of you will not. Physician Not Supporting Obama Care (sent Thursday, July 16, 2009 @ 1:23 PM).
======================================================
How big do the lines on your paper and the crayons in your box need to be???? The idea here is, the HCR is to help people with NO INSURANCE coverage because they are already too poor to get ANY kind of treatment.  Maybe they worked all their lives and just lost a job that provided healthcare for them.  Maybe their insurance company refused to cover their care.  The point is, we are ALREADY at a point where only the wealthy can have extensive health care (regardless of their age).  Why don't you selfish people GET THIS?????  The examples on this board are written in English, yet the opposition can only retort by calling people lazy and stupid.  If I remember correctly, quite a few executives last winter were fired from Wall Street, and there are executives from the auto companies looking for work, too.  I would not call these people lazy or stupid.  Perhaps their lay-off package kept their health coverage for a while and they were lucky.  There are hundreds of non-union people who have lost jobs SINCE LAST FALL (before Obama ever took office) who have lost health coverage for themselves and their families, from all walks of life.  Get over yourselves and have some compassion, PLEASE.

Pat from NY--I think you're right about the taxing of employer provided benefits.  I hope that President Obama agrees with you--after making such an issue of it in the election last year, he really needs to keep his campaign promise on this.  Surely they can come up with a way to pay for health care reform.

To be fair....if you have a Job....you should be taxed for healthcare.  It should be a fair tax and I really don't mind paying a higher tax to have healthcare.  As the jobs come back, I believe the President should rescind the tax cuts for all of us to get this passed and paid for.

Some how, the health care debate got hijacked into a health insurance debate.  Mandating health insurance will not control costs (see the recent Congressional Budget Office report), address the need to preventative care instead of reactive care; quality of life, or the fundamental issue of providing services based on patient need instead of form of payment.  For shame, a golden opportunity has been squandered, and only insurance companies will come out as winners.

Tax on the middle class? Sure, why not? How can they expect to keep voting themselves a raise without any consequences? They want free health care, let the middle class bear some of the burden. And that's part of the 'Shared Responsibility' BHO talked about.

Lets see someone take a poll on HC reform with that in mind.
Trevor Barnes, Indiana (Sent Thursday, July 16, 2009 2:33 PM)


My vote is yea. Yessir it is yea because I would rather pay a couple hundred dollars a year more in taxes than thousands more in health care costs. Those costs continue to rise unabated. Before long only the wealthiest 1% of Americans will even be able to afford premiums let alone anything else related to health care. No one is asking for a free ride. We want AFFORDABLE health care. If under the current system we could reduce costs without reducing the level of care to such a point that it is once again affordable I would go for it in a New York second. Unfortunately the track record of the insurance industry shows that chances of that happening are somewhere between very slim and none at all. Because they chose to be irresponsible, greedy, citizens they must be MADE to do what is right. If that means they be required to do things differently and consumers given an option that will force them to do the right thing that is what will happen. That is why it is even necessary and why it is being discussed and voted on etc. Those greedy buggers have no one to blame but the guys they see when they look in the mirror every morning.

The idea here is, the HCR is to help people with NO INSURANCE coverage because they are already too poor to get ANY kind of treatment.

#######

Reality -- those the government deems to poor to pay for healthcare already get free coverage - have you heard of Medicaid?  The government run program for low income families that is already going broke.  

Mandating insurance coverage is not the same as providing affordable  , quality healthcare.  Healthcare, medical care and health insurance are different entities.  One of the biggest ways to reduce costs (reducing obesity) has nothing to do with medical care for individuals.  People are arguing about the wrong things.  So now we'll end up with the government taking more of your money, making decisions for you and the same level of medical care -- yeah, sounds great to me.

Eagle1776,

You seem to not understand. You speak of paying hundreds more in taxes so not to pay thousands more in healthcare. But the problem is you'd be spending the hundreds in taxes and the thousands in healthcare. The Obama plan does not provide free medical, it provides insurance. The Obama plan does not fix the healthcare woes.

You mention the public having the option to force insurance companies to do things right. But let's look at this option. You will have everyone forced to a plan or else be fined 2.5% of their income, hitting the poorest the hardest. You remove the incentive for employers to provide insurance options for their workers. You remove the employees' discount (tax free) for getting insurance will mean less people can get non-government insurance. The government plan will require tax money to stay affloat, so no fair price competetion is possble--so how can they "be MADE to do what is right" as you call it?

And no where in that are there actual fixes to the leaky system.

The problem with healthcare is not just with the insurance companies. These companies are not making that much money relative to their size and scope of business. Yes, there are some steps that they can improve, and there are legal actions that can be pursued to further this part of reform. We can and should act on those, as well as other steps. But you seem to just want to blame them solely and stick it to them. Do you want to correct the system, or punish it?

Opposition to the Obama plan is not opposition to healthcare reform. It is merely opposing Obama's method. Better methods are out there. They'd be more effective, cheaper, and require the government to have less role in the daily lives of American citizens.

Greed is defined as wanting more than what is earned. The rich and the poor both do it.

Taxing health insurance is a sure fire killer for any democrat led health care plan. Government employees, school teachers, some union types have fully funded health care plans that carry enormous premiums paid by Mr & Mrs Taxpayer. These special interest groups are the primary reason that Obama is in the White House. They will not allow their bennies to be taxed. It just will not happen......unless our democrat friends try to slip an immunity clause in a bill to tax health benefits of these special interest groups. If this happens the huge majority of americans should use such a move to dig out their pitchforks and torches and get on down to DC for a little riotin'

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):