Reid's football

Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:38 PM by Domenico Montanaro
Filed Under: Congress, Democrats

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
For all those trying to understand what Lieberman's talk of filibuster ACTUALLY means, we turned to our Senate wise-man Ken Strickland, who explained it in football terms, essentially this way:

Right now Lieberman's with Reid. Reid needs a first down. And Lieberman's with Reid for that first down. Reid doesn't have enough votes quite yet for that first down, but Lieberman's with him -- for now.

And that first down is getting the bill to the floor, i.e., getting 60 senators to vote for cloture, in other words, 60 senators who would allow the bill to get to the floor.

Lieberman would not vote for the final version of the bill if it contains a public option, but he is ok with allowing debate and amendments to be added.

Point is, Reid needs first downs before he can get to the red zone or even the end zone. And right now, he doesn't even have the votes for that first down. So let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and try to predict what will happen in the red zone -- if Democrats carry the ball that far.

*** UPDATE *** For those wondering about the TPM analysis. It's correct, and we linked to it in an earlier post. As we were trying to explain, there are TWO procedural hurdles: (1) On the front end to allow it to get to the floor for debate, and then (2) On the backend, AFTER debate and before a vote.

Lieberman would not filibuster on the front end, but he would on the back end. The front end is the more important one.

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Comments

Point is, Reid needs first downs before he can get to the red zone or even the end zone.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Reid and Pelosi have been deep in the RED zone for years.

Hillary's end zone is what scares me.

Groundskeeper Willie’s enemy Seamus (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:50 PM)

Hey Domenico, it's 4th and 47. Time for the Hail Harry, ehh, Hail Mary pass. And good luck with that.

D. McNabb, Philadelphia PA (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:50 PM)

IDIOT!!!!

Joe can expect a call from the White House VERY soon...
markus, Boston, MA

And then what? At last look, Lieberman works for the people of Connecticut, not Obama. Besides, Obama doesn't care if there's a public option or not, he's even said so.

W. Whitmore, Maryland (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:51 PM)

This makes no sense to me. What about Lieberman's vow to filibuster?

Olivia, Santa Barbara, CA (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:51 PM)

Why is this President Obama's fault because of Lieberman's decision? Obama kept him in the fold, rightly so, to have a majority in the Senate. It was the correct decision.
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Pam, the election is over. Hillary Clinton showed no leadership on the Iraq War invasion which is why she lost. Reading your posts reminds me of Ted Kennedy when he ran against Carter. He split the Democratic Party, and we ended up with Reagan, which partly explains why we're in the mess we're in today.

This is huge legislation. We have to fight for it together, as a community, not against it.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:51 PM)

Bushies Suck says: "Who gives a flip about Lieberman????"

Who gives a flip? You do. Well, you do if you care about getting any kind of bill out of the Senate.

Listening Is A Skill You Should Have (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:53 PM)

I disagree. TPM's piece showed TWO procedural hurdles before the vote itself, and Lieberman clearly said he will NOT vote for cloture. Fuller analysis showing how Lieberman drank Reid's milkshake: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/how-lieberman-stole-reids_b_335780.html

M.S. Bellows (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:53 PM)

We need a public option. The insurance companies are a big part of the problem. Some ocmpetition from a public option would lower costs.
South Dakota

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

And we need a public option for grocery stores, and hardware stores, and restaurants, and movie theaters, and bike shops, and car makers (oops, already got one of those, GM), and internet providers. Each one should have a public option to lower costs.

Andy S., NC (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:54 PM)

People in Washington should not be alluding to anything football right about now. Their local team couldn't score if the other defense wasn't even on the field. But seriously, competition is always good. It keeps quality up and prices down. We are desperately in need of some competition for the private insurers, so here's hoping for a public option. Go Cards!

Ron Jeffers, Arizona Independent (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:54 PM)

A funny thing happened on the way to the government take over of health care. They counted the votes.

Mother Dearest (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:54 PM)

Why do we still have to pay attention to Lieberman in matters pertaining to the Democrats? He is a weasel of the first order and cannot be trusted to vote with the party much less run for a first down. He is John Mccain's handmaiden and has no allegiance to Democrats of any stripe. Forget about him.

Gingernbread Mamma, Jupiter fl (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:56 PM)

A question for the good people of Connecticut. What the hell were you thinking when you sent this schmuck back to Washington?
Bill, Rochester, NY

Careful there, we like Chris Dodd.

Lynda Simpson, Bridgeport, CT (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:56 PM)

As a long-time Packer -- and Brett Favre -- fan, who has seen many a game end this way, I can easily predict what will happen:

Brett Favre fakes a hand-off to Adrian Peterson and then drops back to pass. He surveys the field briefly and then lofts the ball to the end zone and ... into the hands of former Heisman Trophy winner Charles Woodson for his eighth interception of the season, giving the 4-2 Packers a win over the 7-0 Vikings.

Yeah, I know. In my dreams.

In Harry Reid's dreams, too.

Anna Molly (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:57 PM)

The Dems should strip this Independent of his chairmanships in the Senate.
GWBC

And the party of compassion speaks. Snowe's "punishment" by the Republicans for voting with the Dems last week? Nothing.

Accept diversity Democrats. It's the only way.

Diane, Illinois (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:59 PM)

So let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and try to predict what will happen in the red zone -- if Democrats carry the ball that far.
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What do you mean IF?

WHEN is more like it...

Anything to keep fanning the flames right FR? ;0)

Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:00 PM)

Hillary's end zone is what scares me.
Groundskeeper Willie’s enemy Seamus

Why? You have a lot of room to work with.

Two by Four (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:01 PM)

Did someone on one of the last threads menttion government-sponsored ice cream? Yummy.

Make mine French Silk. With a sprinkle of taxes.

Reine des Violettes (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:02 PM)

Careful there, we like Chris Dodd.
Lynda Simpson, Bridgeport, CT (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:56 PM)
----------------------------------------
So do all the snakes that pocketed HUGE profits from Fannie and Freddie when he and Barney were supposed to be "regulating" it.

How is Clinton's buddie Raines doing? Ask Chris "Countrywide" Dodd.

Barney and Friends (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:03 PM)

Ron, agree on that one, loud and shrill. If they're not careful, they'll hurt themselves.

Especially like the ones that say lefties are afraid of Sarah Palin. Sorry, we're not, we just keep wondering why people think she's so great when she, like Bush, has trouble stringing together a sentence that can be understood without psycho analysis.

Jody, Iowa (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:06 PM)

Heisman Trophy winner Charles Woodson for his eighth interception of the season, giving the 4-2 Packers a win over the 7-0 Vikings.

Queens are 6-1. 6-2 after Sunday.

Aaron Rodgers, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:09 PM)

Did someone on one of the last threads menttion government-sponsored ice cream? Yummy.

Make mine French Silk. With a sprinkle of taxes.
Reine des Violettes

Nope, sorry. This is government ice cream. It's gray in color, and tastes like brussels sprouts. And no refrigeration is necessary.

Enjoy (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:12 PM)

Harry Reid will remind Joe Lieberman that his committee chairmanship is because Pres Obama intervened. Party loyalty counts, remember that Lieberman, Nelson, Landrieu. No one says they must vote for the final bill but they owe the party that helped get them elected a cloture vote.

Jody, Iowa (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:13 PM)

So let's not get too far ahead of ourselves and try to predict what will happen in the red zone -- if Democrats carry the ball that far.
_______________

FUMBLE!!!

Weeb Ewbanks (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:14 PM)

Thanks so much for the correction, Aaron, and good luck on Sunday. Just remember that, in football as in ... life ... speed is no substitute for accuracy.

See you at 3:15.

Anna Molly (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:16 PM)

Hey Fr...our healthcare is not a flippin ballgame to be scored with winners and losers...hers a factoid

The current system is not substainable for anyone but those on the government dole...that includes those who think they earned it like medicare and tricare.

The rest of us out in the real world face real premium increases, higher copays and deductibles while the rest of you enjoy your near free care on our money.

One of these days the rest of us, the silent majority will decide it is unfair to make us pay for your care and ours too.

Rick, nC (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:17 PM)

Olbermann didn't say this about Michelle Malkin, did he? "Olbermann on "Countdown" that evening called Malkin "a big mashed-up bag of meat with lipstick on it.""

Yikes! Keith, where is the love?

M. Lynn-Johnson (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:20 PM)

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:20 PM)

Bow to Your Sensei (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:22 PM)

We have not worked so hard to get leverage on all these congressmen just to have Harry get cold feet. He had better dive in if he knows what is good for him and the rest of these corrupt greedy idiots too. They were made and can be destroyed. If they cant get this done, they had better be ready for some OCT,NOV, and DEC suprises. Exposure hurts just ask Blagojevich.

Judas Goat (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:22 PM)

Let them block it.

If other companies are anything like the one I work for, Americans are in for a real shocker come January 1. Companies cutting the amount they pay and every worker has to fork over $50/month more to get the same insurance we had last year.

Tea parties were nothing compared to millions of Americans being told they have to fork over $600 more next year because 41 senators said the insurance companies aren't causing an economic disaster to families.

Let the Republicans take the blame for blocking it.

Once they see the rage from $600 coming out of millions of Americans wallets.

Dan, WI (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:23 PM)

What is with the written and verbal media's obsession that Pres Obama is demanding no public option? This ball has been tossed around by the media for days and yet not said by anyone from the White House. It's speculation. I'm beginning to think the media just likes the controversy and keeps stirring things up.

Jody, Iowa (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:26 PM)

This is huge legislation. We have to fight for it together, as a community, not against it.
Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:51 PM)

Well Obama's not fighting for it; he has shown ZERO leadership on HCR since day one!! "Public Option is not make or break," per Obama; Pelosi has shown the courage, not Obama!!

And, no, Hillary Clinton lost because of an incredibly cruel and sexist media and a lot of people that wanted "Mr. Cool!!"

Pat, I voted for Obama; I supported Obama; however, he's let me down time and again; and you of all people should be furious that he's sitting on the sidelines pointing the finger at everyone but himself.

HE must take the ball and run with it!! He won't; just like in Afghanistan; he's not "waiting for the right decision." He's waiting and waiting and waiting - for what? If you oppose Hillary so much because of Iraq, HOW can you support what Obama's doing in Afghanistan?!?! He's allowing more and more to die in something that cannot be won; Bush blew it; he knows it and he refuses to bring our men and women home!!

So blame Hillary all you want for the war, like she was the president who stated, "Sadaam Hussein and his sons have 48 hours to leave Iraq" and then only waited 24 hours before bombing!! NO, that was Bush!!

And if you want to blame Hillary, fine; but blame Obama for what he's doing both in Iraq and Afghanistan then because the buck NOW stops with HIM!! It no longer stops with Hillary; although it never really did, now did it?

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:27 PM)

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:51 PM)

You are right about Ted Kennedy; he gave us Reagan; he did more to hurt Carter than anyone, yet I don't remember all the whining then and he took the thing all the way to the Convention!!

And if you don't like reading my posts, Pat, I'm sorry; it's how I feel!! I'm sickened and disgusted that we have a democratic president, a democratic Congress and they are bending and bending!! Leadership at the top? A joke!!

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:28 PM)

The fact is that Reid has just made Lieberman the Republican's poster boy of no. It's perfect really. The American people will see the right for what it is, obstructionist with no new ideas. It has to get to the floor first though, so hopefully people of CT will be calling and emailing Lieberman so that he will vote yes to bring it to the floor for amendments!!

LB, Virginia (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:29 PM)

Pam, you're reminding me more and more of Ted Kennedy when he ran against Jimmy Carter.

The liberals deserted Carter. And we ended up with Reagan.

The 2008 election is over.
Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 3:38 PM)

And 2012 is right around the corner; again, if you don't like how I feel, I'm sorry, Pat!! It's how I feel!! Funny how things have worked out, the way I thought they would!!

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:31 PM)

Dear Diary: Everyone here hates me. I don't want to be here any longer. Anything I do fails. Plus the tourists smell.

H. Reid, Nevada (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:31 PM)

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:34 PM)

Anything to keep fanning the flames right FR? ;0)
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:00 PM
_______
- they don't call it 'rope-a-dope' for nothing, do they?
________
And, M Lynn-Johnson;
"Olbermann didn't say this about Michelle Malkin, did he? "Olbermann on "Countdown" that evening called Malkin "a big mashed-up bag of meat with lipstick on it.""

Although I didn't hear the comment. I assume he must have said 'ruetebegas', though. Or, maybe 'turnips'. Or those awful acorn (YIKES!) squash. I don't see anything at all that resembles meat when it comes to Malkin.

Buzz (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:44 PM)

Cheerleader Obama is on the side line screaming,"Come on, Come on guys" We got to move FAST on this puppy. Time is running out. We don't have time to waste, hurry, hurry, hurry, we got to make this happen as fast as possible.

Afghanistan................Slow, precise thinking as I ponder the options and think on a possible decision to finally at some point deliver to the American public. This is TOO important to rush!

Democrat indecisiveness is unbelieveable particularly with the Rush to Judgment on HRC. America, you must be stupid to play in this game. Many hands raise from the liberal left in support.

Barack Houdini Obama strikes again, illusionist

Josh Larson, FL (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:48 PM)

You righties can continue to drown your sorrows with your Budweiser… lol lol lol
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 1:46 PM)

-------------------------------------------------

In Chicago, that Budweiser will be supplied by Jesse Jackson’s son who was “miraculously and coincidentally” awarded a lucrative Budweiser distributorship in 2002 when Jesse Sr. made an African-American Bud boycott go away.

Big Al in Chicago- Vote early and vote often! (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:48 PM)

The liberals deserted Carter. And we ended up with Reagan.
Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:34 PM
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Divine providence. We thank thee Almighty God.

St. Eleutherius of Nicomedia (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:55 PM)

Dem's have you checked your dipstick today? You all appear to be a little low on substance. Perhaps the Obamanation is being seen for the farce that it really is?

Luke Carlton, DC (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:57 PM)

The liberals deserted Carter. And we ended up with Reagan.
Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:34 PM)
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Divine providence. We thank thee Almighty God.

St. Eleutherius of Nicomedia (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:28 PM)

DEMS cannot make the same mistake by letting the repubs and the chris Matthews of the world define the “opt out” public option. DEMS have to explain that not only will this option lower cost, but also provide options for people with insurance. THEY ALSO HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT BY ALLOWING STATES TO OPT OUT, AMERICAN’S WILL BE ABLE TO SEE WHO IS AGAINST OUR BEST INTEREST AND VOTE THEM OUT OF OFFICE. JOE HAS TO GO!

Ty, OKC (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:00 PM)

JUST...GET...IT...TO...THE...FLOOR!

D Ray Eugene, OR (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:29 PM)

NO!! It's Obama that needs to take the football and run with it; so far, he's been on the sidelines still trying to be Mr. Cool!! It's sickening to watch!!

Obama's giving the ball to others to play the game HE should be playing; but of course, he's not; he wants to keep clean!!

Obama's not fooling me; he's not fooling many people; it's sickening to know we could have done so much better in 2008, but no, Mr. Cool was just so darn cool!!

For those who didn't see through it, well, maybe one day you will!! Obama will never take the football; he'll just stay on the sidelines and be "PRESENT!!"

Pam, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 4:20 PM)

And if he did get in the game there would be complainers (you probably among them) that would gripe that he isn't letting Congress do it's job and is too involved. So would you like a little cheese with your whine?

eagle1776 (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:49 PM)

Eisenhower said the essence of leadership was to pick the best people for the job and then "get out of their way" and let them do what they were going to do anyway. Anyone who doesn't think President Obama is a strong leader is in for a very big surprise. He's been playing the game just right.

Bugs Bunny, Brooklyn NY (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 7:15 PM)

Last November, the people of this country gave the Democratic Party the House, the Senate and the White House. The game is simple here. The Republican Party of NO is completely unified in their efforts to stop President Obama and the Democratic majority from delivering on the change the American People voted for last November. The Democrats, led by President Obama, now have the opportunity to demonstrate that they can lead, govern and deliver on the promise of last November, To do so, they will have to put aside their petty self interests and vote as one as the Republicans are now doing in order to get the Peoples work done. Only unified, can the Democrats deliver on the change we believed in last November. We gave them the majorities they need, now they have to pull together to use them, or they will most certainly lose them. For the Democrats, it is crunch time to show they have the Leadership skills necessary to win. There are no points for second place...

Tom, Mead, CO (Sent Tuesday, October 27, 2009 11:20 PM)

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