ABOUT FIRST READ

First Read is an analysis of the day's political news, from the NBC News political unit. First Read is updated throughout the day, so check back often.

Chuck Todd, NBC Political Director

Mark Murray, NBC Deputy Political Director

Domenico Montanaro, NBC News Political Reporter



First thoughts: The GOP's two paths

Posted: Monday, November 02, 2009 9:17 AM by Mark Murray
Filed Under:

From Chuck Todd, Mark Murray, Domenico Montanaro, and Ali Weinberg
*** The GOP’s two paths: Republicans are set to learn two very contradictory lessons from their likely victories tomorrow in Virginia and NY-23. In Virginia’s gubernatorial race, as we’ve written before, Bob McDonnell (R) has hugged the middle, portraying himself as a bipartisan legislator and attorney general who has racked up significant endorsements from Democrats. He also has owned the issues of the economy and taxes. But in the NY-23 special congressional election, the lesson has been to embrace the right -- even if it means backing a third-party candidate (Doug Hoffman) over its party’s more moderate nominee (Dede Scozzafava), who suspended her campaign on Saturday and is now backing the Democrat in the race (Bill Owens). Those events over the weekend turned a three-way congressional race that the Dems could win -- by splitting the GOP vote -- into a likely Republican victory. However, First Read has learned that Scozzafava is now taping robo-calls for Owens. By the way, it’s worth remembering that McDonnell cut a deal with Virginia GOP Lt. Gov. Bill Bolling to avoid a primary. Could McDonnell have run as a centrist in the general had he run in a primary in the spring?

*** The ideological civil war in 2010: So which path does the Republican Party take as we head into 2010? As of right now, it looks like the NY-23 one (even though McDonnell is about to do something that Jerry Kilgore, George Allen, Jim Gilmore, and John McCain didn’t do this century: win in the battleground state of Virginia). On Saturday, Marco Rubio, who’s taking on the more moderate Charlie Crist in next year’s Florida Senate primary, delivered this message to conservatives on National Review Online: The “developments in New York's 23rd Congressional District should send an encouraging message to conservatives everywhere. It is not only right and necessary to stand up for our principles; it is also an appealing strategy to Americans yearning for less government and more fiscal restraint in Washington.” The conservative-vs.-moderate battle also will play out next year in Texas (where Kay Bailey Hutchison is taking on Rick Perry) and in Utah (where Sen. Bob Bennett is receiving a challenge from the right). And don’t forget that this divide already forced Sen. Arlen Specter switch parties earlier this year.

*** NY-23 and 2012: Hoffman's likely victory is either the first anecdote political analysts will use to explain how the GOP built itself back up as a grassroots party to nominate (insert semi-unknown Republican here) and defeat Obama in 2012. Or it will become what Democrats see as an ideological fight that turned off the political middle and set the stage for Obama to win re-election, thanks to a Republican Party that couldn't appeal to independents. That was the argument David Plouffe made on “Meet the Press” yesterday. “Sarah Palin, the other Republican candidates who are likely to run, the Limbaughs and Becks of the world are basically hanging a ‘moderates need not apply’ sign outside the Republican National Committee headquarters,” he said. “And for a party that has historic lows right now … it's a ... curious strategy to kind of repair this damage.”

*** Charlie Crist, you’re next: Indeed, if Hoffman wins in NY-23 tomorrow, Charlie Crist will most definitely be the right’s next target in this ideological civil war. And he’s already hurting. A new Miami Herald/St. Petersburg Times/Bay News 9 poll over the weekend found that only 42% think that Crist is doing a good or excellent job as governor -- his worst rating in his 34 months in office. But the biggest worry for him? “Even most fellow Republicans don't like the job he's doing. That 51 percent of them rate Crist's performance as fair or poor is particularly ominous for someone facing an aggressive U.S. Senate primary challenge from former state House Speaker Marco Rubio of Miami.” It’s snowballing for Crist. As he tries to appeal to the GOP base, that base is abandoning him. Meanwhile, Dems and indies won't bail him out now; they are becoming more partisan, too. This is all turning into a potential political nightmare for Crist. Here's some irony for you: Had Crist decided to seek a second term, he'd probably cruise to re-election (as top Dem Alex Sink wouldn't be running). Now, trying to jump to the Senate after just one term as governor (nearly half of which he's spending as a political candidate) will be its own liability.

*** What if Corzine Loses? With all the focus on NY-23 and Virginia, however, don’t forget about New Jersey’s gubernatorial contest, which will probably be the closest race Tuesday night. In fact, President Obama made his third campaign swing for Jon Corzine (D) yesterday. While Corzine has trailed for most of the year and while his approval numbers remain stuck in the 30s and 40s, almost everything has gone right for him in the final two months: 1) Chris Christie’s campaign has floundered, 2) Chris Daggett’s independent candidacy gives Corzine a path to victory without winning 50% of the vote, and 3) Obama’s recent events for Corzine and the Democratic Party’s ground game in Jersey might be what Democrats need to turn a deadlocked race into a Dem win. But what happens if Corzine loses? How will you be able to explain it? (The final Quinnipiac poll shows movement for Christie, with him up by two (42%-40%) after trailing by five last week.)

*** Rationalizing New Jersey: Well, the chief reason will have been Corzine’s unpopularity; indeed having EVERYTHING going his way these past two months has been the only way he might win tomorrow. But you also can’t dismiss concerns about the Democratic base (that for the first time in quite a while, the Dem base in New Jersey wouldn’t have been able to push the Democrat across the finish line), or the fact that incumbents across the country better be worried about their prospects next year (Chris Dodd, Harry Reid, Ted Strickland, Bill Ritter, and Chet Culver, we’re looking at you). In addition, on CNBC this morning, Christie said Obama will have no impact on the race, and he took pains not to criticize the president. So Christie's spin on Obama and the White House's spin on Obama are probably in sync! By the way, fair or not, Democrats better be ready to parry a new GOP talking point that none of the ACTUAL Democratic nominees running in NJ, VA, NY-23, and NYC mayor may break 45% on Tuesday. And in every single one of those states/districts/cities, Obama nabbed well over 50% in 2008.

*** Dede wasn’t the only one who quit a race this past weekend: Turning from the 2009 horse races to foreign policy, the big news in Afghanistan is that Abdullah Abdullah withdrew from his runoff against Karzai, the runoff was canceled, and Karzai was declared the winner. So what does this mean for the Obama administration as it weighs sending more troops into Afghanistan? It’s unclear at this point. After his meeting with his Joint Chiefs last Friday, Obama asked them to come back to the White House (possibly as early as this week) to present him with more options. The president is not happy with the choices that he has in front of him, including Gen. Stanley McCrystal's request for approximately 40,000 more troops. While nothing has been ruled out, the fact that Obama is asking for more options than what was already on the table, including the 40,000 troop request, is a strong sign that whatever number the president approves, it will likely be less than the 40,000 number. As for timing, it's also looking less likely the president will make a decision -- let alone announce a decision -- before he leaves for Asia on Nov. 11, meaning the election decision in Afghanistan may have less impact on timing than many thought.

*** McChrystal and Pat Tillman: Speaking of McChrystal and Afghanistan… On “Meet” yesterday, author Jon Krakauer discussed his new book on Pat Tillman’s death in Afghanistan, noting that McChrystal had approved paperwork for Tillman’s Silver Star, despite having evidence Tillman had died due to friendly fire. “After Tillman died, the most important thing to know is that within--instantly, within 24 hours certainly, everybody on the ground, everyone intimately involved knew it was friendly fire,” Krakauer said. “There's never any doubt it was friendly fire.  McChrystal was told within 24 hours it was friendly fire. Also, immediately they started this paperwork to give Tillman a Silver Star. And the Silver Star ended up being at the center of the cover-up.”

*** Geithner on taxes: Also on “Meet” yesterday, Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner didn’t rule out the Obama administration having to raise taxes to shore up the nation’s debt, and he struggled mightily NOT to actually admit it. “I just want to say this very clearly. [Obama] was committed in the campaign to make--he said in the campaign and he is committed to make sure we do this in a way that is not going to add to the burden on people making less than $250,000 a year. Now, it's going to be hard to do that, but he's committed to doing that and we can do that… We're going to have to do it in a way that's going to help to meet that test, meet that commitment, the commitment he made, to do it in a way that's fair to Americans and make sure we do it in a way that's going to allow--provide for growth and recovery going forward. But we can do this. You know, this is not beyond our capacity as a country to do.” Has "hard choices" become code for "tax hikes"?

*** Fast facts for tomorrow: One day out until tomorrow’s NJ/VA/NY-23 contests, here are some fast facts you might want handy to sound smart around water cooler, at your election-night party, or while blogging/tweeting tomorrow night: Since 1977 (for eight-straight times), the party controlling the White House has always lost Virginia’s gubernatorial contest… Since 1989 (five-straight times), the party controlling the White House has always lost New Jersey’s gubernatorial race… Republicans have lost the last four major contests in VA (the ’05 Gov race, the ’06 and ’08 Senate races, and in last year’s presidential)… And even if Chris Christie wins in NJ, he’ll likely keep this GOP alive: No Republican in a statewide race in NJ has received 50% since George H.W. Bush in 1988.

*** More 2009 trivia: The Deeds-McDonnell race in VA is a rematch from 2005, when McDonnell bested Deeds by just 360 votes in their race for state attorney general (something tells us the margin will be a bit bigger tomorrow night)… Dems hold more than a 700,000-voter-registration advantage in NJ, but almost half of all state voters (46%) are registered as unaffiliated… Corzine and Mike Bloomberg have already spent a combined $371 million on their political races since 2000… A Democrat has not controlled the NY-23 congressional district since the 19th century… If Republicans lose NY-23, they will control just two of the states 29 congressional districts; in 2006, they controlled nine, including seven Upstate.

Countdown to Election Day 2009: 1 day
Countdown to MA Special Primary: 36 days
Countdown to MA Special Election: 78 days
Countdown to Election Day 2010: 365 days

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Comments

Why Evan Bayh Will Probably Support HCR:
1) Poll numbers and phone calls: Hoosiers have pounded his office with phone calls and emails. Plus the Research 2000 poll numbers clearly reveal that HCR is a defining issue for Hoosiers.
2) Wife, Susan may not like being exposed for her involvement with healthcare companies. Rachael did a fine job revealing Susan’s ties to the industry.
3) Evan’s fad, ex-senator Birch was a friend of Ted Kennedy.  Perhaps dad suggested to son that Evan may want to rethink his position.
So progressives, time to contact Blanche Lincoln, and Ben Nelson.  I’m sure they would rather be US senators than selling used cars.  Phone calls do work!!

Then There’s Joe Lieberman:
I wonder who Joe Lieberman listens to.  Maybe his wife, maybe the crickets chirping between his ears, maybe Harry Reid needs to talk to him how it will feel to be totally lonely and powerless.  Maybe Joe has this fantasy that someday he will be a hero and get credit for saving HCR. Or maybe Joe is just plain stupid.
But Joe isn’t stupid; he’s a crook!. He will try extortion.  That’s right extortion/blackmail: What will you give me for my vote?”  The business about helping Republicans is simply upping the anti so he can get more from Senate leadership. What a despicable human being!.  My natural urges are to kick the SOB’s but up to his shoulder blades.

Jody: There are two saying in Indiana regarding football: “The luck of the Irish.” (Notre Dame) and “Tough break for the Hoosiers”(Indiana University).  I thought Iowa would win by 22, you  won by 18…close enough. Congrats!
What an honor it is to know ex-senator John Culver!. Watching him at the Kennedy wake was so funny and touching.  I seldom laugh, but John make me laugh.
November 02, 2009
NJ Gov Poll: More Evidence Of A Christie Surge

Quinnipiac's final poll in New Jersey (1,533 LVs, 10-27-11/1, +/- 2.5%) shows a significant late swing toward Republican Chris Christie, giving us a trend showing movement against the incumbent.

General Election Matchup
Christie 42 (+4 from last poll, 10/20-26)
Corzine 40 (-3)
Daggett 12 (-1)
Undecided 6 (+1)

Christie's support seems to be most committed at this point, with 90 percent of his supporters saying their mind is made up. Nearly four in 10 of Daggett's supporters could still change their mind; Corzine is the second-choice candidate of 39 percent, with Christie at 29 percent.

The Republican now has a 1.2 point lead in the RCP Average of New Jersey.
November 02, 2009
NJ Gov Poll: More Evidence Of A Christie Surge

Quinnipiac's final poll in New Jersey (1,533 LVs, 10-27-11/1, +/- 2.5%) shows a significant late swing toward Republican Chris Christie, giving us a trend showing movement against the incumbent.

General Election Matchup
Christie 42 (+4 from last poll, 10/20-26)
Corzine 40 (-3)
Daggett 12 (-1)
Undecided 6 (+1)

Christie's support seems to be most committed at this point, with 90 percent of his supporters saying their mind is made up. Nearly four in 10 of Daggett's supporters could still change their mind; Corzine is the second-choice candidate of 39 percent, with Christie at 29 percent.

The Republican now has a 1.2 point lead in the RCP Average of New Jersey.
This is without a doubt going to be an interesting week:

For starters you have proof positive that the Republican’ts absolutely ‘eat their own’ see NY 23 for example!  I was LMFAO reading the righties posts over the weekend on FR proclaiming this is the beginning of their BIG ‘come back’….GOOD LUCK with that! Just keep on staying ‘stuck on stupid’!  It’s working out for us Democrats… just fine thank you!

Then we’ve got Dickhead Cheney & his ‘selective amnesia’ and 72 instances of not being able to recall the events leading up to the Valerie Plume firing!  He’s either LYING… or he’s suffering from some serious memory loss in which case makes ANYTHING he spouts these days EVEN more irrelevant!

And rounding out the big (3) Agent Orange is on the defensive about WHY the GEENOPEE has no alternative HCR bill! Hell at least they waved around their ‘so-called’ budget… even if it had NO numbers in it!  lol lol

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/01/boehner-on-lack-of-gop-he_n_341404.html

It’s not shaping up to be a very good week for the righties… that’s for sure… lol lol lol
Kudos to Joe Lieberman for standing up for what's right regardless of the political pressure put against him. It's nice to see one honest politician against the mix. If only we had more people with his courage we might actually change the country for the better rather than changing it for the worse.
How in the world have the Democrats with a 60/40 majority in the Senate and an 80 vote majority in the House, become irrelevant?
Obama and Geithner have saved or created $2 trillion dollars in debt and have lost 3 million jobs. Maybe China can protect us taxpayers?
According to Nancy Pelosi and a Harvard study, if the Public Option doesn't pass, 500 million Americans will die within minutes.
*** McChrystal and Pat Tillman: Speaking of McChrystal and Afghanistan… On “Meet” yesterday, author Jon Krakauer discussed his new book on Pat Tillman’s death in Afghanistan, noting that McChrystal had approved paperwork for Tillman’s Silver Star, despite having evidence Tillman had died due to friendly fire. “After Tillman died, the most important thing to know is that within--instantly, within 24 hours certainly, everybody on the ground, everyone intimately involved knew it was friendly fire,” Krakauer said. “There's never any doubt it was friendly fire.  McChrystal was told within 24 hours it was friendly fire. Also, immediately they started this paperwork to give Tillman a Silver Star. And the Silver Star ended up being at the center of the cover-up.”

----------------------------------------------

...yet the NeoCon Chickenhawks demand that President Obama do what General McChrystal wants immediately?
Headline: Obama puts prestige on line for Corzine

What prestige? Any prestige Nobel Obie had went out the window when he went to Copenhegan and tried to muscle the Olympics to Chicago.
Dems got DeDe Scozzafava's support...? They had it all along. She's more Liberal than the Liberal candidate, which is why she's not going to Congress.

Thanks for proving America right DeDe. Now go out and join the Democrat party where you belong...that will be your next "shocking" move that will shock absolutely nobody at all.
It’s not shaping up to be a very good week for the righties… that’s for sure… lol lol lol


Redhead, I recommend reserving judgment on the week of the Republicans until Wednesday morning.  And First Read, let's please drop the 'moderate Republican' line.  Scozzafava isn't a moderate Republican, she's a very liberal one.  
Watching the Dummycrats whine and moan about Lieberman is like complaining about the weather. Nice job Dummycrats, throwing the moderates of your party under the bus like you did in the CT Senate election with Lieberman. Democrats wanted a radical leftist in Lieberman's senate seat, someone to keep Obama company in the Senate (Ted was really busy back then).  So ol'Joe told the Dems to take a flying leap and ran, and won, as an Indie. How'd that work out for the Democratic radical leadership? Not too well, huh? Now you can take you pubic option is stick it under the bus with everything else you radical Democrats hate!
...yet the NeoCon Chickenhawks demand that President Obama do what General McChrystal wants immediately?
Pete - Albany, NY

Obama asked McCrystal how to win the war in Afghanistan. McCrystal told Obama what it would take. Obama now doesn't want to fight that war, the war he campaigned on as the war that must be fought. Obama is hypocrite (I know, that's big news to you libs), and is dithering away the time hoping him voting 'Present' again will be the answer.
Lots of inside the beltway hot air from FR this morning on Republican strategies for becoming relevant again.  Toss it all away, only one thing matters: it's the economy, stupid.  McDonnell's race in VA is the template: own the issues of the economy and taxes and you're well positioned to win.
Does American need any more proof that Rethuglicans will do, say, and be anything to everybody in order to win an election?

I bet dollars to donuts that Ms. Scozzafava was strong armed into withdrawing from NY 23 over the weekend. Michael Steele is continuing the dirty tactics of the G-NO-PEE in order to assure a win at any cost.

McDonnell has done a fine job of dupping Virginians into thinking that he has our best interest at heart. The stats don't lie and his record, including the very telling thesis, shows what kind of leader this Rethug will be. Thank God for term limits in VA!
In NJ Christie pulling away, and pulling away from the incumbent Corzine. The only way Corzine wins is if the union halls can drag their workers to the polls tomorrow. But even the union rank and file have got to be getting tired of Corzine's taxes, the highest taxes in the country.

Time for a change NJ! Change is coming!!
Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL: It’s not shaping up to be a very good week for the righties… that’s for sure… lol lol lol

Yeah, all those victory parties are going to take their toll on the Republicans. lol lol lol
It is really nice to see us all fussing and fighting about real issues that effect the daily lives of average Americans, like health care reform, job creation, and developing a real strategy for our military instead of lipstick on pigs, who is or is not presumptuous, and thinly veiled fearmongering about immigration to terrorism.

What is the source of this new serious tone and actual effort to address the real problems we face?

The election of President Barack Obama.

You don't have to agree on the how, but there is no denying the what.

And I for one say thank you.
McDonnell hugging the middle lol B.S. Just like when The Shrub campaigned on being a compassionate conservative. His thesis from Regent University proved what his true colors are. They are like zebras they do not change their stripes. Women in Virginia may just go back to second class status.
This McChrystal story is being overly politicized.  Which should shock NO ONE that the military has been politicized from the beginning.  It is politicized when it comes to money and it is politicized when it comes to 'strength' or 'weakness' issues.  The Pat Tillman story will live on as part of the Bush Propaganda for how great Americans are Great at War.  I can't help but feel it is a distraction for the present issues; but people feigning shock really need to read some history.
-----------------------------------
What does a girl have to do to get a rebuttal posted these days?  If I posted this once, I posted it a dozen times.  The whole while Richard is calling me out on every other post, what gives FR?

Richard, Washington State (Sent Thursday, October 29, 2009 12:21 PM)
Keep your pants on, Richard.  I have OTHER things going on in my life than being your ‘beck and call’ girl.  Sheesh!  (BTW, my son’s Halloween Party at school was AWESOME, if I do say so myself.)
“…There was no attempt to privatize the system. You are close to lying when you say there was.  At the least it's gross misrepresentation.”  Richard, Washington State (Sent Wednesday, October 28, 2009 4:58 PM)
Richard, don’t imply that I am a liar.  I don’t lie, and I won’t take your allusion ‘lying’ down, either.  I do, however, read.  I read a lot.  Maybe you should, too?  I’m not sure who you are trying to kid; but Bush floated the idea out there and got ‘laughed off the grid’.  Speaking of gross misrepresentations, how is that Iraq War sales pitch working out for you?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52565-2005Jan31.html or here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A45726-2005Jan3 (I know, you probably aren’t a fan of this Post; but I refuse to peruse Murdoch’s rag for facts.  I find it is a lot of time wasted trying to find any facts there.  You understand, don’t you?)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6827519/ (thank you, Ronald Reagan)
http://zfacts.com/p/488.html  (perhaps this one is too partisan for you? and the links no longer point to the WSJ memo)
http://www.factcheck.org/social-security/bushs_state_of_the_union_social_security.html (the only cover I’ll give you, Richard)
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/10/opinion/10mon1.html?_r=2 (I know you reject any mention of the Times; but – they covered it)
I believe what all this chattering was about was the full frontal assault on Privatizing Social Security.  You can believe in Fairies and Pixie Dust for all I care; but I am not going to let you scam your own facts on this one, Richard.
PS.  Pam, thanks for the assist.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“…Nevertheless, he's welcome.”  Richard, Washington State (Sent Thursday, October 29, 2009 1:04 PM)

Oh, Richard, a little snide are we?  You somehow make it seem that he isn’t ‘welcome’.  But isn’t that why you ‘created’ the snark meter?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“…Seen golfing where and when, Clara?

And they didn't try to privatize Social Security, either.”  Richard, Washington State (Sent Friday, October 30, 2009 1:06 PM)

This is a little choppy; but – do try and keep up:
"Mr. President," he was asked, "you haven't been golfing in recent years. Is that related to Iraq?"
"Yes, it really is. I don't want some mom whose son may have recently died to see the Commander in Chief playing golf . I feel I owe it to the families to be as — to be in solidarity as best as I can with them. And I think playing golf during a war just sends the wrong signal."
"Mr. President, was there a particular moment or incident that brought you to that decision, or how did you come to that?"
"I remember when [diplomat Sergio Vieira] de Mello, who was at the U.N., got killed in Baghdad as a result of these murderers taking this good man's life. And I was playing golf, I think I was in central Texas, and they pulled me off the golf course  and I said, it's just not worth it any more to do."
The bombing in Baghdad which killed Sergio Vieira de Mello of the U.N. was on Aug. 19, 2003.  Yet CBS News has records of Bush playing golf as late as Oct. 13 of that year, nearly two months later.

Either Bush was lying, Bush was confused, or Bush just made shit up; but no matter how you slice it (ha, I made a golf pun!) he indeed did NOT sacrifice Golf to show solidarity with the soldiers families, as he stated.

PS.  The idea was so absurd that even the UK bothered to write about it:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1955754/President-George-W-Bushs-golf-sacrifice-is-an--insult-to-all-Americans-say-veterans.html
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jen WIlson, NY (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:39 AM)

Regional marginalization does not a National Statement make; but do go on,...
Ron Indiana: Then There’s Joe Lieberman:
I wonder who Joe Lieberman listens to.  Maybe his wife, maybe the crickets chirping between his ears, maybe Harry Reid needs to talk to him how it will feel to be totally lonely and powerless.

---------------

He lefties, don't go away mad, just go away. Harry is going to tell Joe about being "lonely and powerless"? Well, Harry should know, because that's what he is.
Obama feeling okay? Saw a couple of pictures of him exiting a gym. He's thin as a rail. Time for him to knock of the smokes and hit the Ensure.
I don't know very much about the Tillman situation but why is Gen. McChrystal in a position of leadership if he participated in a cover-up? And why would President Obama ever trust him?

It would be fun to gloat about the Republicans' turning on each other and having vicious in-fighting but the Democrats are doing something similar to themselves--they control the Presidency and both houses of Congress and can't get the President's top legislative priority passed.  No wonder no one trusts Washington.  And as much as I have supported President Obama, I can't say this has been the change I was hoping for.
NY-23 while all the outside interference and drama is unexpected. The only real "News" would be if Owens won! A Democrat hasn't held that seat in forever. The tea bagger mentality won't fly in areas with more moderates. So while all the drama has been fun to watch, I really don't see it as a "win" for the conservative tea baggers.
J. Ellis, Virginia: Does American need any more proof that Rethuglicans will do, say, and be anything to everybody in order to win an election?

++++++++++++++++

If the Republicans are doing that, they got the idea from the Democrats. Old Mr. Hope and Change has given us no hope and we're still waiting for any change.
...yet the NeoCon Chickenhawks demand that President Obama do what General McChrystal wants immediately?
Pete - Albany, NY

Obama asked McCrystal how to win the war in Afghanistan. McCrystal told Obama what it would take. Obama now doesn't want to fight that war, the war he campaigned on as the war that must be fought. Obama is hypocrite (I know, that's big news to you libs), and is dithering away the time hoping him voting 'Present' again will be the answer.
Stan, Sante Fe NM (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:34 AM)

------------------------------------------------

Once again, you conveniently forget that the fabricated invasion and occupation of Iraq was more important to Bush and Cheney than was dealing with those who actually did attack us.

Silly me, I'm blaming the Bush Administration!
In a Peanut Shell ~

Politics always makes strange bedfellows.

Watertown apparently still subscribes to the worn-out Reagan dogma that "liberal" is a dirty word.  Get over it.  You, too, Stan.

Afghanistan is treacherous, but Tillman is not the first soldier to die from friendly fire.  What treachery was that Silver Star really intended to cover up?

And why would President Obama accept advice from anyone who was involved in that cover-up?  





Oops, I Did It Again!


That's why they make Depends.
Davey Boyd NM----If I remember right it was the Republicans that stabbed their man in the back in Conn. 2006. Didn't the Republican Party withdraw all their support for the Republican that was running and Support Lieberman as an Independent?
So the party of No is excepting the facts that the party is now being run by Palin,Bachmann,Pawlenty,Rush,Glen,Pat Bachahann,Pitch fork republicans.That the likes of Newt and the Steel man don't run the party.And who would have guess that the msm is treating the NY-23 like a horse race,trying to handi-cap the race.I like the part about conservatives will be joyous if they win NY 23,really it hasn't been won by a Democrat since Washington was President,so let wait till the numbers are counted before they start counting feathers.It seems to me that the Florida race will be the next stop for the Freedomworks riders and the Army of baggers,and Army hate fest will continue.To bad the far right wingers will be the voice of the Pitch fork party.
While I am catching up on posts that should have hit last week:

Ron, Indiana – pitch perfect, as always, yesterday!

Nojonobonj – So good to hear from you.  We have wondered and worried.  We will keep you and your family in our thoughts and prayers.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, October 29, 2009 11:09 AM)

You forgot “birth control”,…

An oversight, I am sure.  Hey, I do what I can to help. ;)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
“Clara: Is Blunt really this dumb?  Thanks for the kind words.  BTW. If Blunt wants the government to protect Americans from H1N1, Where does he stand on HCR?”  Ron Indiana (Sent Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:39 PM)
Hate to be the bearer of bad news; but, yes, he IS this dumb.  His son is even dumber, if that is any consolation.  They are breeding their contribution to the gene pool more and shallower with each new generation.  BTW, I posted a response – pre supposing the questioning of his intellect; but alas, it was moderated into the ether.  Darn, because it was pretty funny.
Yes, he is the moron that hopes to replace Kit Bond as our new Senator.  As, Dan, WI was so kind to remind us, Roy Blunt was against foreign pharmaceuticals, I mean before he was FOR them.  He’s an ass.  (By the way, Dan, my comment was along the same vein of those pesky regulatory bodies and how they just keep us safe and keep pesky foreign innovation OUT!  HA).
Saint Dick, Dallas, TX (Sent Wednesday, October 28, 2009 3:48 PM) You are right, and we are ashamed of him.  His ‘district’ is known for their shenanigans.  See this Newsweek article:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/195085
Righties like Rubio in Florida talks about principles, less goverment, fiscal restraints. Same OLD same old rhetoric that the ignorant masses keep getting duped. Strong on defense (as long as their children do not fight), tax cuts for the wlthy (campaign that it will benefit middle-class and business owners), market captialism (no regulations need to apply) and all inclusive party (accept if you are gay, self- sufficient independant  women who believe in choice, believe in separation of church and state and have an anglo-saxon sounding name) Frank Rich was right calling them the new Stalinists.
John Boehner, Mitch McConnell, Jon Kyl, and other Republican representatives seek to just fault and block everything and anything the Obama administration offers.  Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, Palin and others aggressively criticize every position taken by the Obama administration, now ridiculously even H1N1 flu vaccinations.  The obviously and totally discrediting problems with all of that are threefold.  One, their positions are always aggressive and arrogant in being negative attacks without ever offering anything constructive or positive.  Two, their efforts are clearly aimed at manipulating public opinion without any real concern for the people.  Three, their deceptive concentration on finding fault fails to admit that over the last eight years their positions irresponsibly and self-servingly heavily contributed to the severe problems we have and then … it is that same mentality which they seek to return to, to ‘more of the same’.  We can’t withstand ‘more of the same’ and it is their real responsibility to conscientiously and honestly work together in fine-tuning and finding compromises that work in the best interests of the people, all of the people and not just Special Interests.  Their bold and belligerent self-serving efforts and their obvious arrogance in taking the people for granted by thinking that public opinion can so easily and continually be manipulated while they just serve as puppets to Special Interests and a select few, is disgusting and costing us greatly.  They need to change their ways or to be thrown out.
Joe Lieberman pointed out that the Obama campaign never mentioned a 'public option' during the 2008 election; now we discover its at the core of their health care reform plans.

Admittedly, the Obama machine outsmarted the electorate in 2008. But they must realize, American voters are not willing to be useful idiots for this team of socialist liars anymore.
Jen WIlson, NY (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:39 AM)

Regional marginalization does not a National Statement make; but do go on,...
Clara Kansas City, MO

Liberals are now conceding all the races. You just know they'd be beating their chests if any of their candidates would win this week. They'd be saying "See, Obama is the man!". Obama campaigned heavily for each Democrat, and just like with his heavy hand on trying to get the Olympics, he's going to lose everyone of them. So where did the magic go? Probably it went with the $800 billion stimulus bill tht created zero jobs. Probably it went with the socialistic attempt to have the federal government take over health care. Probably it went with 3 million job losses. Probably it went with the government buying GM. Lots of reasons to where the magic went. Or, maybe there wasn't any magic in the first place.
Ben Dover.Likitlots,NY: So the party of No is excepting the facts that the party is now being run by Palin,Bachmann,Pawlenty,Rush,Glen,Pat Bachahann,Pitch fork republicans.


So what is worse? The party of no? Or the party that can't get anything done, ie., the Democrats? Well, except for spending trillions of dollars in deficit spending. I guess that's the big accomplishment of the borrow and spend Democrats.
Pat, I think we are going to have to give Tim, NJ some props.  Those damn Yankees have really stepped up their "A" game.  Sucks to be an "anyone but the Yanks" fan right now.

Come on Phillie, show some life!
But Joe isn’t stupid; he’s a crook!. He will try extortion.  That’s right extortion/blackmail: What will you give me for my vote?”  The business about helping Republicans is simply upping the anti so he can get more from Senate leadership. What a despicable human being!.  My natural urges are to kick the SOB’s but up to his shoulder blades.

Ron Indiana (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:22 AM)
----------------------------------------------------

Wonder if Al would've picked a different running mate in 2000 if that would've helped put him over the top?


As far as Bayh goes, I agree that he's protecting his wife's interest...but I also think that he's just soaking as much lobbyist money as he can before that party is over.  He better enjoy it while he can, because no amount of advertising is going to sway what I think of him now.  I will vote for anyone who runs against him in the primaries, and if he still wins, i'll go back to voting 3rd party on the senatorial selection.
Watertown apparently still subscribes to the worn-out Reagan dogma that "liberal" is a dirty word.  Get over it.  You, too, Stan.

---------------------------------------------
Sorry Lucy, you're wrong.  I don't view 'liberal' as a dirty word and don't have a problem w/liberals.  I just think that liberals belong in the Democratic Party and that the media should stop pretending that Scozzafava is a 'moderate' Republican when she is clearly not.
OF THIS AND THAT

Great Halloween! 126 Kids. Not bad.

The doom is on the rose. Puppet Pelosi threw her irrational and "anti-everything that's good" healthcare and political handbook of 2000 pages at the media, congress, senate and everyone else that could lift it.

Power mad is the word for the Botox Queen. Even Obie hasn't read it. He has advisors to tell him what it's all about. Tax payer funded abortion, public option and death panels are there in black and white. Again, PALIN was right. And a 72 hour deadline to get it read.

This is under-the-table stuff, folks, typically left-wing and only an anti-American fool would endorse this package of doom and gloom political propaganda wrapped under the guise of "healthcare reform." Unfortunatelty we have an abundance of midguided fools in the congress and senate.

~~~~

Thanks to Palin for going conservative and not Republican. She stirred it up. Now we'll see if it backfires in NY.

~~~~

And Limbaugh gave it to the White House. Rush is right an overwhelming amount of the time. Putting down Obie is a fixture at our house. Nothing new here. Axelrod can't keep up with Rush, on any level.
Now even the AP is getting in on it. Our friends tell us to just wait for his tenure to end and the political reversal will begin. We think it will start in 2010. The Dems have called us into an all-out political war. We're up to it. We think Obie's ultimate goal is a Global Government. China and India won't take part and more and more problems will ensue that he can't handle, in addition to his failed presidency thus far. To say Obie is "in over his inexperienced head" is putting it mildly.


Full Moon
Bad Chihuahua
Moon Dawg ... and the rest.



I don't know very much about the Tillman situation but why is Gen. McChrystal in a position of leadership if he participated in a cover-up? And why would President Obama ever trust him?

It would be fun to gloat about the Republicans' turning on each other and having vicious in-fighting but the Democrats are doing something similar to themselves--they control the Presidency and both houses of Congress and can't get the President's top legislative priority passed.  No wonder no one trusts Washington.  And as much as I have supported President Obama, I can't say this has been the change I was hoping for.

Steeler Fan Pittsburgh, PA


Many people that voted for Barack Obama are coming to the same conclusion. McCrystal was appointed by Obama, he is Obama's guy. If Obama didn't trust him, he should not have appointed him.

And the in-fighting by the Republicans is like watching a couple kids argue in the sandbox when compared to the Democrats. It's just that the press gives the Democrats a pass while the Blue Dogs of the party have split from the socialist base and leadeship of the Democratic party.
Yeah, all those victory parties are going to take their toll on the Republicans. lol lol lol
Jen WIlson, NY (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:39 AM)
_________________

If you call a win in a district that hasn’t voted for a Democrat in over a 150 years PROGRESS… well then party on… lol lol lol
I still disagree that these elections are a referendum on the WH or a window into 2010.  All politics is local.  If I were moderate republicans, like Crist, etc., I would be concered about the Club for Growth's impact on the GOP.  

NY 23 provides a better picture of 2010 politics than do the VA and NJ governor races.  If Hoffman wins, it sends a message that the extreme right will be emboldened to continue the republican vs conservative civil war nationwide.  As Elinor Clift said yesterday, she never thought she'd be describing Newt Gingrich as a moderate.  As for a NY Hoffman win sending a message to conservatives everywhere--what message does it send?  These far right conservatives talk about democrats taking away their "freedom", wait until their extreme movement gets a chance at "freedom".  We'll all be forced to accept their brand of religion, rights, separation of church and state, and their interpretation of the Constitution.  That thought folks, should scare us all.

What to do about Afghanistan?  Everyone has an opinion.  Listened to Matthew Hoh's interview with Fareed Zakaria on GPS yesterday.  This is the man I would want to have a discussion with before making a decision just to listen to his evaluation and put it in perspective with others.  His is only one view but I found it interesting that his view is more in line with VP Biden's--a smaller footprint.  We are in the middle of a 30-year Afghan civil war.  The window of opportunity to win the "hearts and minds" of the Afghan people was squandered by Bush, Cheney and all those politicians who couldn't wait to get to Iraq (McCain, Lieberman, et al); that window has nearly closed.

I think Liz Cheney is as obcessed and nutty as they come but her comments about President Obama's "honoring" our fallen troops at Dover, to be a new form of her particular hatred and the lowest form of criticism.  It was mean-spirited and hurtful to the fallen.  With her comments, she politicized the sacrifice of the dead heros and their families.  Does her brain even function independently from her father's?  Enjoyed Lawrence O'Donnell's emotional thoughts on her comments; he hit it exactly.  Not once did Bush or Cheney ever go to Dover.  I'm not criticizing their decision not to; every leader must decide BUT it is disgusting and low to cricize Pres Obama for doing what he felt he must do.  Cheney is such a chicken he sent his daughter out to do his dirty work.  And the photo op nonsense is even dumber nonsense.  

Ron.  IA tried to give IN a break especially in the 3rd quarter but in the end decided winning would be more fun.  The Hawkeyes still aren't shiny but they never quit.  Another fun game to watch.

 


Jacskon Holmes, Cleveland (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:55 AM) & Longhorn (Sent Friday, October 30, 2009 9:44 AM)

It is so precious how you Repubs have such short memories and even shorter attention spans.  I mean “W” spent over $700 Billion to socialize financial market losses.  And yet he was bleeding jobs at a much higher rate.  I guess that fiasco was just ‘monopoly money’?

Just precious.  thanks for the laugh.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Borrow this,I would give it a rest,all your Dems can't get anything done.They have done more in the last 9 months then the Republiklans did in eight years.So the dems have 3 years and 3 months to right the ship after the republiklans ran it to the depths not seen since the last depression.And who spent the first 700 billion on christmas gifts to Paulsen and the Bushies on Wallstreet.But whine on there Grape sucker,whine on.
Jody, Iowa: I still disagree that these elections are a referendum on the WH or a window into 2010.

But Obama couldn't put any of them into the Democrats column. None. Nada. Zip. Obama invested both time and money to secure at least one win, and he'll get none. Just like with Obama losing the Olympics, these things tend to add up.

And why should the Republicans be moderates? The Democrats aren't. Look at the Democratic leadership. Obama? Pelosi? Reid? Who is the moderate? Durbin? Hoyer? Schumer? Who is the moderate? Frank? Dodd? Rangel? Who is the moderate? None of them. All extreme left wing liberals.
Yeah, all those victory parties are going to take their toll on the Republicans. lol lol lol

Jen WIlson, NY (Sent Monday, November 02, 2009 9:39 AM)

By all, you mean two. lol lol lol. It doesn't take much to make you neo-cons happy does it. But seeing as how your so irrelevant any victory is big.
It is so precious how you Repubs have such short memories and even shorter attention spans.  I mean “W” spent over $700 Billion to socialize financial market losses.  And yet he was bleeding jobs at a much higher rate.  I guess that fiasco was just ‘monopoly money’?

Just precious.  thanks for the laugh.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Clara Kansas City, MO



Have the Democrats picked a date for when Obama will be responsible for something?


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